we understand that cg...we understand, trust me we do!!!

we arent... :dunce:
or ... :realmad:

Great Demos asked a question. I answered.

Great Demos asked a question. I answered.

you answered with great verbosity!

you answered with great verbosity!

Verbosity means, "an expressive style that uses excessive words." Yes, I do that from time to time.
But....
better to many.......
words than.... to few.

We will have to wait for Great Demos to answer to see if he agrees with you.

No, not a lie, or a mistake, or error. You have to know how to read Spiritual text. It is filled with metaphor, allegory, etc. The words seldom mean what they say. They stand for something else. For example. If I were to say to you, "My feet are on fire! I walked and walked all day. I walked a million miles!" You look down at my feet and see no flames or smoke. You get out your calculator and discover that it is impossible for a person to walk a million miles in a day! Do you call me a liar? Or do you understand the imagery that I was putting across? Which was, my feet hurt because I walked a lot! You don't take my story literally, but you understand it's meaning.

The Bible is written in a way that is not to be taken literally. The age of 900 years, and other long ages of some men, stands as a symbol for great wisdom - "with age comes wisdom" or so we are told. And we must also allow for the possibility that time was not measured in the same way then, as it is now.

Whichever explanation we chose, it is clear that the human body cannot survive 900 years. It was never made to do that. There is no evidence, in the vast collection of ancient human remains that suggest anything even close to that. In fact in those early days, 39 years was an old man.

If one sees the Bible as JUST a history book, that everything means what is says, literally, then one has to come to the conclusion that it is filled with errors. It does have history but it is more than history. It is a book of imagery that one can use to open the soul to God.

CG very good point I hope many take the time to try and understand what you have said. Here is another why to think of it. The instructions for flying a World War 1 bi-plane can’t be used as instructions to fly an F 16 fighter jet. While the principle is the same air speed and lift its just can't be used literally word for word. The have more things on an F-16 than they had words during World War 1.
Not the right thread but I must add it in here. Eunuch Transgendered gay lesbian, Or just human beings (y2kbad after reading your previous posts about respect)


P.S. If Stem Cells work, who knows? Maybe we can reach great age - 100, 200, maybe more! May be one day a guy who is 100 will be considered a youngster!

No, not a lie, or a mistake, or error. You have to know how to read Spiritual text. It is filled with metaphor, allegory, etc. The words seldom mean what they say. They stand for something else. For example. If I were to say to you, "My feet are on fire! I walked and walked all day. I walked a million miles!" You look down at my feet and see no flames or smoke. You get out your calculator and discover that it is impossible for a person to walk a million miles in a day! Do you call me a liar? Or do you understand the imagery that I was putting across? Which was, my feet hurt because I walked a lot! You don't take my story literally, but you understand it's meaning.

The Bible is written in a way that is not to be taken literally. The age of 900 years, and other long ages of some men, stands as a symbol for great wisdom - "with age comes wisdom" or so we are told. And we must also allow for the possibility that time was not measured in the same way then, as it is now.

Whichever explanation we chose, it is clear that the human body cannot survive 900 years. It was never made to do that. There is no evidence, in the vast collection of ancient human remains that suggest anything even close to that. In fact in those early days, 39 years was an old man.

If one sees the Bible as JUST a history book, that everything means what is says, literally, then one has to come to the conclusion that it is filled with errors. It does have history but it is more than history. It is a book of imagery that one can use to open the soul to God.

P.S. If Stem Cells work, who knows? Maybe we can reach great age - 100, 200, maybe more! May be one day a guy who is 100 will be considered a youngster!

Thanks CG for your explanation. I understand about imagery, figures of speech, etc, but I would doubt that ALL the Bible is of this type of writing. If it IS so, I wonder Why? Is it because the translators/interpretors found it difficult to put the real meaning into English? Or was it intentionally disguised? Also, the Bible says that God is a God of decency and order. (Does it look very orderly to use so many figures of speech?).

I don't want to sound too adamant against some of your points, as I am not 100% sure of the following 2 points I would like to make:

1) I have heard pastors say many times that History has never disputed what the Bible says.

2) Many years ago I recall reading that it was a great mystery to some doctors and scientists as to why the human body should die! After much long and thorough examination, they came to the conclusion that the human body was designed to live forever and they could NOT understand why it eventually dies!!!

One thing for sure, you are going to cause me now to do some research to see if I can dig up some information to support what you are saying.

Thanks Great Demos. It is always a pleasure to read your postings. Let me try to answer your questions.
Thanks CG for your explanation. I understand about imagery, figures of speech, etc, but I would doubt that ALL the Bible is of this type of writing. If it IS so, I wonder Why?
No, some of it is history as written by the Hebrew people. The trick is to know what is history and what is not.

Is it because the translators/interpretors found it difficult to put the real meaning into English? Or was it intentionally disguised?
No, interpreters have done a good job, and they continue to do so. Translations and such, never ends. Every turn of the diggers spade, in the Holy Land, turns up something new that adds to our knowledge of the Bible, its interpretation, and its times.

Also, the Bible says that God is a God of decency and order. (Does it look very orderly to use so many figures of speech?).
But that is the way of Holy writings. Put the Bible aside for a moment and read other Holy books. They all use metaphor etc., sometimes the same metaphors. It seems to be the language of God. The only trouble is we can't always speak his language, particularly when we insist that he must only speak ours.

I don't want to sound too adamant against some of your points, as I am not 100% sure of the following 2 points I would like to make:

1) I have heard pastors say many times that History has never disputed what the Bible says.
Alas, that is not true. Let me take a few things. The Jews in Egypt. It is believed and taught that they built the Pyramids as slave labour. Excavations have shown that the work was done by Egyptian professionals. A village that housed these well-paid, well fed, pros has been found not far from the Pyramids themselves. Now, there may have been a few Jews involved in the building, but not as slaves but as paid professionals.

There is no record in Egyptian history that says there was ever a King killed by drowning in the Red Sea. (By the way, Egyptians kept good records!)

There is no record of thousands and thousands of Jews leaving Egypt. There is no evidence in the desert that masses of people once crossed it. In the dry desert, artifacts from that many people, should have been found. There is nothing, there never was anything found. Not so much as a bone, or a shoe.

There is no evidence of a world wide flood in the geographical record. There have been floods, but none that covered the whole world.

Many of these stories are allegory, not fact. They teach a spiritual lesson.

2) Many years ago I recall reading that it was a great mystery to some doctors and scientists as to why the human body should die! After much long and thorough examination, they came to the conclusion that the human body was designed to live forever and they could NOT understand why it eventually dies!!!
I have not heard that one. My Uncles was a Doctor and to him it was a surprise that man lives at all! We are subject to injuries, disease, the list goes on and on. If there are such things as miracles, then it is a miracle that any of us survive.

The human body is designed to die. It makes cells to replace those that die but as we age that process slows down and the dead cells cannot be replaced fast enought. Once we are over thirty, it is all down hill! (I am 57!!!!)

Everything ages, everything decays. Everything returns to the elements from which it was made. The Sun will one day flicker out and die. Everything dies. That is the way of nature.

Nothing I have said here is to damn, or cheapen the Christian faith, to the contrary. The faith is a wonderful faith when it is practiced as a faith. Alas, Christianity makes too many exaggerated claims for itself. It claims uniqueness, and to be the only voice of God. It is not unique, nor the only voice. It is a beautiful voice, but it is one in a fugue that has rung down through the eons of time.

One thing for sure, you are going to cause me now to do some research to see if I can dig up some information to support what you are saying.
Look for the writings of Joseph Campbell.(Sometimes they run his lectures on PBS during their pledge weeks.) If you like you can borrow a few CD's of his talks that I have, send me am email.

Thanks CG for the info. I plan to do some further reading, etc, to confirm what you are saying.

I have always regarded the Bible story of Moses helping to free the Jews from Egyptian bondage as factual. You talk about the Egyptians keeping good records, but do you think they would have recorded their king and army losing their lives in the Red sea (assuming it really happened)?

Looking in a small Desk encyclopedia, I found Joseph Campbell (1904 - 1987). It states that he was a U.S. scholar of Mythology. Not sure I'd be interested in his input on these matters. But I have some very good history books I intend to check out.

I have printed out your post for easy referennce. Will get back to this thread after my research.

[After my last post I noticed you had a short talk with yk2bad regarding verbose postings. Well I agree with your stance on this, because when you take your time and fully explain what you have to say, there would be little chance of people misunderstanding what you are trying to convey. I understand that some languages allows you to easily say exactly what you mean, but that is not so with English. It is usually easy to read all kinds of unintended meanings in written (and spoken) English, especially if you don't take your time and engage your brain before you engage your pen (or your jaw).

Thanks CG for the info. I plan to do some further reading, etc, to confirm what you are saying.

I have always regarded the Bible story of Moses helping to free the Jews from Egyptian bondage as factual.
There might well have been a Moses who led the Jews out of Egypt, but there were not thousands and thousands, and they crossed the Sea of Reeds, not the Red Sea.- they also ended up going south.

You talk about the Egyptians keeping good records, but do you think they would have recorded their king and army losing their lives in the Red sea (assuming it really happened)?
They did record losses. However, they always minimized their losses.

Looking in a small Desk encyclopedia, I found Joseph Campbell (1904 - 1987). It states that he was a U.S. scholar of Mythology. Not sure I'd be interested in his input on these matters.
It's that word again! Mythology! But that is what we are talking about. Most people believe Myth is a lie, or Myth is other people's religion. Mr. Campbell used to say, "Dreams are private myths, myths are public dreams...."

Myths are stories that speak to the same part of the brain that dreams do. They reach where mere truth cannot. They are true in the sense of what they convey. They are (often) deeply spiritual and convey deep spiritual massages to the psyche.

I believe that a person cannot know religion's message without knowing how to understand, and use myth. Get it out of your head that myth is a lie. Myth is a message. Mr. Campbell was the foremost expert on myth. Myth is religion's tools.

But I have some very good history books I intend to check out.
History changes, fast! New things are being found and added all the time Make sure your books are up to date. Yesterday's History books are often todays :wipe:. :) :)

[After my last post I noticed you had a short talk with yk2bad regarding verbose postings. Well I agree with your stance on this, because when you take your time and fully explain what you have to say, there would be little chance of people misunderstanding what you are trying to convey. I understand that some languages allows you to easily say exactly what you mean, but that is not so with English. It is usually easy to read all kinds of unintended meanings in written (and spoken) English, especially if you don't take your time and engage your brain before you engage your pen (or your jaw).
That is true.

One thing for sure, you are going to cause me now to do some research to see if I can dig up some information to support what you are saying.

Way to go Great Demos you are starting on a path that will never end.
You will alway be in aw of the old knowledge of what you were told to think and the new knowledge of what you reaserch and find for your self.

Way to go Great Demos you are starting on a path that will never end.
You will alway be in aw of the old knowledge of what you were told to think and the new knowledge of what you reaserch and find for your self.
Vicky is right! I have been on this religious "fact finding" path for 40+ years. New information is coming in 24/7. Some of it is of value, some not. Religion is not, or should not be static. It is always growing, adapting, changing. Our knowledge is never complete because the subject is never finished - it is to vast to ever be finished. Our "job" is to keep our minds open, open to whatever come along, to weight it - then accept it or not. But to leave the door open to the fact that we maybe wrong, and be ready to change should the facts warrant it.

Vicky is right! I have been on this religious "fact finding" path for 40+ years. New information is coming in 24/7. Some of it is of value, some not. Religion is not, or should not be static. It is always growing, adapting, changing. Our knowledge is never complete because the subject is never finished - it is to vast to ever be finished. Our "job" is to keep our minds open, open to whatever come along, to weight it - then accept it or not. But to leave the door open to the fact that we maybe wrong, and be ready to change should the facts warrant it.

Thanks to you and Vicky. This is one of the few times Vicky has responded well to something I said.

Yesterday I stumbled onto a bit of information I did not know: that Buddhism is some 600 years older than Christianity. I was surprised to learn this!

Thanks to you and Vicky. This is one of the few times Vicky has responded well to something I said.

Yesterday I stumbled onto a bit of information I did not know: that Buddhism is some 600 years older than Christianity. I was surprised to learn this!

Why were you surprised? Buddhism, even Christianity are the "new kids on the block" when it come to religion. Belief in a God has gone back thousands, if not millions of years ago. That is why it is important to know about mythology.

Joseph Campbell put it this way. "Mythology is an organization of symbolic images and narratives, metaphorical of the possibilities of human experience and fulfillment, in a given society, in a given time." $10.00 words to say, "if you want to know about religions of the past, or even understand the one you follow now, learn the true meaning of mythology.

Vicky is right! I have been on this religious "fact finding" path for 40+ years. New information is coming in 24/7. Some of it is of value, some not. Religion is not, or should not be static. It is always growing, adapting, changing. Our knowledge is never complete because the subject is never finished - it is to vast to ever be finished. Our "job" is to keep our minds open, open to whatever come along, to weight it - then accept it or not. But to leave the door open to the fact that we maybe wrong, and be ready to change should the facts warrant it.

i was in the seventh grade when i had this very same thought and almost got expelled because of it. (private school)

i was in the seventh grade when i had this very same thought and almost got expelled because of it. (private school)
Religious School?

i don't know a private school in the bahamas that isn't :)