How many people were killed by Frances? None!
The only people who died "during" this storm died as a result of circumstance.
Would you place that on the account of prayer CG? Seeing what happened in Honduras just a few years ago and thousands of people died from a weaker hurricane than Frances.
Read what you said again. People were killed here as a result of the storm. Maybe not by the winds but if there had been no storm these people might not have died.
And the thousands killed in Honduras a few years ago? Not prayers?

Have you ever been to a Military training camp? To help create an atmosphere of War, the trainers shoot guns over the heads of heads of the soldiers. They blow up bombs and tanks with real ammo (some methods are even hidden from the public).
Yes I have, but my DI was not trying to kill me!!!!

We need to go to Nineveh! Do you understand me?
No!

Cruel because you don't understand or know Him.
Oh! believe me I do understand him. He is no different from the other manifestations of God that have come and gone.

I will give you a lesson CG so take note:
The only way to make a true covenant is through the spilling of blood. Why? Because blood is the symbol of Life and Death which are two of the ultimate things that God has power over. Jesus gave Life through Death by His blood on the cross and He made a new covenant with God because Adam had broken the first.
This is why virginity is important to God. Because when a hymen is broken, a covenant is made between a man and a woman.
I can go on but I believe you can see where I am going.
Let me give you a lesson, a lesson from someone who has studied religions. It is your mythology that requires blood. Many primitive ones do. But we have to grow out of that, grow past this primitive demand for blood. It leads to no good. In the blood is life and death, but most religions that require blood sacrifice also demand death, and in time it is the religion that dies!

Read what you said again. People were killed here as a result of the storm. Maybe not by the winds but if there had been no storm these people might not have died.
And the thousands killed in Honduras a few years ago? Not prayers?
That should tell you something about the effectiveness of prayers by believers here in the Bahamas. We have escaped many storms, seen and unseen because of the prayers of the faithful.

Let me give you a lesson, a lesson from someone who has studied religions. It is your mythology that requires blood. Many primitive ones do. But we have to grow out of that, grow past this primitive demand for blood. It leads to no good. In the blood is life and death, but most religions that require blood sacrifice also demand death, and in time it is the religion that dies!

You asked how I can worship a God that required blood and I explained to you why. This is the word that I live by.

The last sacrifice was made with Jesus so we don't need to demand blood anymore. This is why you and me are alive today my friend.

That should tell you something about the effectiveness of prayers by believers here in the Bahamas. We have escaped many storms, seen and unseen because of the prayers of the faithful.
Actually it is fronts, and high pressure ridges that usually protect us. But of late the weather patterns have been different. They change over time.

You asked how I can worship a God that required blood and I explained to you why. This is the word that I live by. The last sacrifice was made with Jesus so we don't need to demand blood anymore. This is why you and me are alive today my friend .
Actually, in some denominations the sacrifice is offered (symbolically) at every mass. In other denomination we are told that the blood keeps washing away sins. The blood continues to flow, if only symbolically - for the moment!

You and I are alive today because we are not dead! Millions are alive today who never heard the name of Jesus. Millions are alive who would not give you two cents for Jesus, or any other God or man-God. We live, we die. It is the way of nature, gods have nothing to do with it. It is, as a poet put it, "The Mathematics of Luck."

Actually it is fronts, and high pressure ridges that usually protect us. But of late the weather patterns have been different. They change over time.
Who brings the fronts, and high pressure ridges?


Actually, in some denominations the sacrifice is offered (symbolically) at every mass. In other denomination we are told that the blood keeps washing away sins. The blood continues to flow, if only symbolically - for the moment!
Those are denominations who haven't gotten the message yet. They will get it soon though.

You and I are alive today because we are not dead! Millions are alive today who never heard the name of Jesus. Millions are alive who would not give you two cents for Jesus, or any other God or man-God.

Man CG I like how you said that just now. :)
Those words did not come to you by way of flesh and bones.
You are so right with those words. Yes! "Millions are alive today who never heard the name of Jesus." God is good hey? He gave life to millions who would not give you two cents for Jesus.

CG those words are a blessing to me today. I can't stop smiling :)

Thank you.

Who brings the fronts, and high pressure ridges?
Global dynamics. If there is a God who controls them he is, as Woody Allen says, "An under achiever." The dynamics are not dependable. Most unworthy of an infallible god.

Man CG I like how you said that just now. :)
Those words did not come to you by way of flesh and bones.
You are so right with those words. Yes! "Millions are alive today who never heard the name of Jesus." God is good hey? He gave life to millions who would not give you two cents for Jesus. CG those words are a blessing to me today. I can't stop smiling :)
Thank you.

Glad I made you smile. But people live and die and it has nothing to do with Gods. The Christian mythology of God works for the Christian but it is not the norm for most of the world. In fact most of the world thinks we survive because of their gods!

There is a Navaho tribe who sends their High Priests out each morning to pray for the sun to rise. They believe that if they did not do so the sun would not come up. They do what they do for all mankind - even the Christians (and Buddhists) Thanks Navaho Priests! It is the thought that counts!

Global dynamics. If there is a God who controls them he is, as Woody Allen says, "An under achiever." The dynamics are not dependable. Most unworthy of an infallible god.
If that is what you believe CG I can't change that. I can only hope that you see it the way that I do.


Glad I made you smile. But people live and die and it has nothing to do with Gods. The Christian mythology of God works for the Christian but it is not the norm for most of the world. In fact most of the world thinks we survive because of their gods!

Most of the world won't see the Kingdom of Heaven but I won't blame myself for that loss.

Delroy!

Let the Christian think his god rules the world. Let the Hindu think his does, the Navaho - his. The fact is the world goes on and on, gods or no gods. Perhaps it is the collective good will of all believers that really does.

When we are in pain and suffering it is the hand of a fellow being that pulls us up. Perhaps it is time that we, like the Buddhists, transcend our gods and see that those who suffer are us! Those that need a hand are us! Those who offer solace, who bandage our wounds are us. The real "gods" are us!

Speaking of that I have to sign off. I am cooking two turkeys for those who have no food, or way of cooking it, this day.

It is always good to debate with you. You have the Golden Heart and that is what we need. I will check back later tonight.

May your God, as you see him, bless you.

When we are in pain and suffering it is the hand of a fellow being that pulls us up. Perhaps it is time that we, like the Buddhists, transcend our gods and see that those who suffer are us! Those that need a hand are us! Those who offer solace, who bandage our wounds are us. The real "gods" are us!


CG as usual you are so right. This is what jesus tried to show the world. He told us that we will trancend even him.
god has the ability to effect storms, send them or allow them to be sent. but so do we.
For religious poeple like delroy to feel that anytime a storm it is sent it was god that sent it because of something man did it is an insult to gods power.
As a type my table fan is spinning and oscillating back and forward. The man who made this fan was so powerful that he gave the fan the ability to spin and oscillate on its own. he doesnt have to come to my house every time i need to cool down and spin the fan.
Delroy and the religious folk believe that god was not powerful enough to make the world spin and oscillate so he has to continuosly work it like a puppet master.

Delroy!

Let the Christian think his god rules the world. Let the Hindu think his does, the Navaho - his. The fact is the world goes on and on, gods or no gods. Perhaps it is the collective good will of all believers that really does.

When we are in pain and suffering it is the hand of a fellow being that pulls us up. Perhaps it is time that we, like the Buddhists, transcend our gods and see that those who suffer are us! Those that need a hand are us! Those who offer solace, who bandage our wounds are us. The real "gods" are us!

Speaking of that I have to sign off. I am cooking two turkeys for those who have no food, or way of cooking it, this day.

It is always good to debate with you. You have the Golden Heart and that is what we need. I will check back later tonight.

May your God, as you see him, bless you.


Thank you CG.
Keep up the good works :tup:

Of course not ALL Christians think that way, but most do.

In certain geographical locations, CG, you're right.

I never said it was useless. My question even implied that it was a real thing. I only want to know why pray to a god the just tried to kill you? I wonder if Isaac had the same thought???

OK, not useless, but self-contradictory? I understand.

Such practice is not virtuous, per say. It must be done with no results in mind. This is a very difficult thing to do - we are not trying to change anything but to accept things as they come along.

Might one not pray for the same thing? The action of prayer should be a giving up of one's will to a higher will, and an acceptance of what comes. At least that was how I've been taught. Others have been taught differently.

Prayer and Meditation are not the same thing. One tried to reach outward to a Deity, to influnce him or to seek help from him.. The other digs inward to the Buddha nature that lies within us all, and to awaken that nature. If anything changes it is the chanter himself.

Does the Buddha nature lie only inside a human being? It should be the larger thing that works through us - does the Buddha nature not encompass all of reality? If you consider "deity" to mean, at its core, "higher power," then does this differ in *definition* from Buddha nature, or only in supposed *function*?


I guess my point is valid! As far as I know there is no such meditation or Chant in Buddhism that does as you suggest. However, the Bible is full of such things. (See some of the Psalms.)

I know, I know. *sigh*

CG as usual you are so right. This is what jesus tried to show the world. He told us that we will trancend even him.
god has the ability to effect storms, send them or allow them to be sent. but so do we.
For religious poeple like delroy to feel that anytime a storm it is sent it was god that sent it because of something man did it is an insult to gods power.
As a type my table fan is spinning and oscillating back and forward. The man who made this fan was so powerful that he gave the fan the ability to spin and oscillate on its own. he doesnt have to come to my house every time i need to cool down and spin the fan.
Delroy and the religious folk believe that god was not powerful enough to make the world spin and oscillate so he has to continuosly work it like a puppet master.


I am far from religous.
I never said that God sent the storm, I said that "He allows storms to come our way for a reason".

I believe that God has all power and can remove anything from our paths. He is our Father and in being a Father it is His duty to protect His children. So whenever something comes our way that hurts us it is clear to me that God is trying to get our attention.

Lukku cairi, let me see if I can answer your questions.

Does the Buddha nature lie only inside a human being?
No. It lies in all sentient beings. I like the definition of "sentient being" as, any creature with the neural capacity to feel pain. This would include all animals, all humans, and even Gods!

It should be the larger thing that works through us - does the Buddha nature not encompass all of reality?
The Buddha nature lies dormant in all sentient beings. It remains so in many, but it is still there. It does not work through us but out of us. Does the Buddha nature encompass all of reality? First of all "reality" is a hard word for Buddhists as they believe that all is illusion. This is a hard concept for me to grasp. The storm was an illusion! (Seemed real to me!!) The standard answer would be, "as there is no reality, only illusion, the Buddha nature is not in all reality, it is not even in illusion." I am not happy with that but there it is.

If you consider "deity" to mean, at its core, "higher power," then does this differ in *definition* from Buddha nature, or only in supposed *function*?
Yes it does differ. A Deity is a being that dictates to its followers from the outside in. In some fashion, one has to appease the Deity or make oneself acceptable to the Deity. It is a "one on one" thing, one kind of being interacting with another kind of being.

In Buddhism there is no higher power, no Deity, no one to appease, or please, or even to pray to. One awakes the Buddha Nature within by meditation and following the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. Having said all that, I try to follow the above but I am one of those Buddhists (and there are some) who believe there is a God, but I do not see "him" as perhaps the Christian does. I see him as another kind of sentient being as much in the need of awakening as any being. (Though I would suppose him to be more awakened that us!)

I never said that God sent the storm, I said that "He allows storms to come our way for a reason"
I see that as a subtle distinction! It reminds me of the man who was brought up on charges for shooting a man. His defense was, "I did not shoot him, the gun did!" God did not send the storm, he just allowed it to come? Sounds like "six of one and a half a dozen of the other."

There is something that an old Catholic priest told me once. He said, "God does not send evil, but once it comes he makes good come out of it."

I am not sure that his view is what the Bible says but I like it! I have seen a lot of good in the last few days. I have seen people helping people they don't even know. People have a concern for those on other islands in our chain - islands they hardly ever think about. They have sent help to those island folks.

People are asking each other how they faired in the storm, and it is not just an idle question that requires an "I'm cool!" They ask, listen and often embrace.

People have faced a common enemy, together. It is a shame that this feeling of closeness will not last. We will soon be back to "business as usual." But in the mean time I rejoice in it.

He is our Father and in being a Father it is His duty to protect His children.
I wonder if the folks in West End think God did a very good job of protecting his children? They were terrorized and many will never be the same again. Many have lost their homes, many have lost all the owned. Reminds me of another story that comes from a Woody Allen movie, I cant remember the name. There had been a great battle, 50,000 men had been killed, there was only a few men left but they won the battle. One of the men cried out "God was with us!" The Woody Allen character, as he looked at the mountain of dead said, "It is a good thing he was. If not it might have rained!"

So whenever something comes our way that hurts us it is clear to me that God is trying to get our attention.
Are his communications skills so poor that he has to speak this way? Or has Christendom done such a poor job in teaching us to hear?

I see that as a subtle distinction! It reminds me of the man who was brought up on charges for shooting a man. His defense was, "I did not shoot him, the gun did!" God did not send the storm, he just allowed it to come? Sounds like "six of one and a half a dozen of the other."
It's totally different from that because in that case the man pulled the trigger. But never mind that; the fact of the matter is that when God's hand has been lifted we are open to anything and not just Hurricanes.

There is something that an old Catholic priest told me once. He said, "God does not send evil, but once it comes he makes good come out of it."

I am not sure that his view is what the Bible says but I like it! I have seen a lot of good in the last few days. I have seen people helping people they don't even know. People have a concern for those on other islands in our chain - islands they hardly ever think about. They have sent help to those island folks.

People are asking each other how they faired in the storm, and it is not just an idle question that requires an "I'm cool!" They ask, listen and often embrace.

People have faced a common enemy, together. It is a shame that this feeling of closeness will not last. We will soon be back to "business as usual." But in the mean time I rejoice in it.

I guess that priest doesn't read his Bible very often.
God does sometime create destruction but in everything God does; good comes out of it. You said it yourself CG: "I have seen a lot of good in the last few days. I have seen people helping people they don't even know."

I wonder if the folks in West End think God did a very good job of protecting his children? They were terrorized and many will never be the same again. Many have lost their homes, many have lost all the owned.
You are right, "many will never be the same again". Many souls will be saved because of this.

Are his communications skills so poor that he has to speak this way? Or has Christendom done such a poor job in teaching us to hear?
You have lived on this earth longer than I have so you should know that it takes tragedys to cause change to occur.

God would rather us loose everything on earth before we loose our souls.

I am far from religous.
I never said that God sent the storm, I said that "He allows storms to come our way for a reason".

I believe that God has all power and can remove anything from our paths.
OK I feel you. But he allows everything. We also have all power, including the power to stop the storm therefore you can say we also allow it. The hope that something outsite you is controlling things is religious. God did not send any of those storms you mentioned in the new testiment. They just happened. And Jesus was very angry at his disciples running/praying to him for help- in both cases. They were behaving like faithless children. Calling upon Gods name in vain not only sin but religion. I know you want to be free of religion because your pastor is now preaching that but you must free yourself totally. Your pastor told me that has only given yawl a small piece of the message because yawl can't handle total freedom yet. By your comments i can judge that he is right.
But i feel you

He is our Father and in being a Father it is His duty to protect His children. So whenever something comes our way that hurts us it is clear to me that God is trying to get our attention.

The New testiment Clearly states that we are no longer his children but are now his sons. You are responsible for your children but your sons are on there on. We are men now. The children of Israel were his children. He provided for them in the wilderness. When they crossed over jordan into the promise land with joshua he told them that now if they want water they will have to dig wells. If they want food they will have to farm. And they will have to get up and fight for the land. Joshua means Jesus and vise versa. If you beleive that you reached the promise land with joshua/jesus then it is time to truly be like him. Put away childish things-religion- and become a son/man/god.
If a dog has a son- its a dog
If a cat has a son- its a cat
if a man has a son- it is man
if god has a son- it is god
This is the gospel that jesus brought