No. It lies in all sentient beings. I like the definition of "sentient being" as, any creature with the neural capacity to feel pain. This would include all animals, all humans, and even Gods!

You forgot the plants. We assume they can't feel because they don't scream out but they are alive and may be able to feel pain.

You forgot the plants. We assume they can't feel because they don't scream out but they are alive and may be able to feel pain.


This might well be true, but generally speaking they would not fall under the category "sentient beings." But I would not dismiss your comments out of hand.

There is a religious group called the Jains. They believe plants feel. They do not eat any plants until they have died! (i.e. they would not pick and apple, they would wait until it falls.)

...You are right, "many will never be the same again". Many souls will be saved because of this.
When I said many will never be the same, I was talking in the negative sense. But may be there will be a few that fined this a positive

I think there will be many who will question, and find no one to give them answers - even if they dare ask the questions. Many folks might draw closer to God because of fear. Does God want us to fear him (bad fear I mean?)

You have lived on this earth longer than I have so you should know that it takes tragedys to cause change to occur.
Tragedies can cause change, both good and bad. But much change comes from good things as well. But it seems that God has yet to learn the maxim, "You can catch more flies with honey that you can with vinegar."

I just thought of something!
Perhaps God is not talking, or warning us at all (as some suggest.) We forget, in our self-absorbed flagellation, that it is Florida that has had two bad storms in as many weeks and may get Ivan on top of that! Maybe God is talking to them and we were just in the way! :confused: Maybe he has nothing to say to us at all! :confused: (This is if you subscribe to the theory that God speaks that way!)

Maybe it is just the Ego of Christendom that thinks he has anything at all to say to us! :jawdroop:

Maybe it is just the Ego of Christendom that thinks he has anything at all to say to us! :jawdroop:


Hehe CG - do I have to put up a sign that says "Don't poke the Christians"? :sarcastic

Hehe CG - do I have to put up a sign that says "Don't poke the Christians"? :sarcastic


How about putting up a sign that says, "Christians! Don't put yourselves in a position to be poked!" :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

No. It lies in all sentient beings. I like the definition of "sentient being" as, any creature with the neural capacity to feel pain. This would include all animals, all humans, and even Gods!

Hm. Are you at all familiar with the Gaia hypothesis? That basically being that the planet Earth represents a sentient being - the human race only representing the neural network of a larger creature. If you were to look at it this way, I might ask the question - does a hurricane have a Buddha nature? And if not, is that like saying that though I may have a Buddha nature, for instance, my blood (considered by itself and not as part of the larger system) does not?

The Buddha nature lies dormant in all sentient beings. It remains so in many, but it is still there. It does not work through us but out of us. Does the Buddha nature encompass all of reality? First of all "reality" is a hard word for Buddhists as they believe that all is illusion. This is a hard concept for me to grasp. The storm was an illusion! (Seemed real to me!!) The standard answer would be, "as there is no reality, only illusion, the Buddha nature is not in all reality, it is not even in illusion." I am not happy with that but there it is.

I have done some reading in contemporary pop-physics books, and I've got a bit of understanding as to how quantum theory is supposed to mirror Buddhist thought, though I haven't read much of anything in Buddhism. What I mean by "reality" should really be called "totality" - the STUFF that forms us, even if we are only holographic standing wavefronts in a sea of miniscule vibrating strings that may only exist because we want them to. Time may be an illusion and space may be an illusion - and you may even be able to PROVE that mathematically one day - but on a day to day basis we function within the three dimensions that we can sense, and here we are stuck. So it seems to me that Buddha nature represents an effective and relatively painless way of moving *through* the system. If I convince myself that the hurricane isn't real, that my pain isn't real, and that what really matters is the invisible and intangible heart of the universe - is this not, at its root, simply a way to cope with pain?

In prayer, one is supposed to turn over one's sorrows to a higher power. This allows the person who prays to "lighten their load" - perhaps shed some misplaced guilt, or rationalize that a dead loved one is with God and is happy and safe. This is also a way of moving more effectively through the system, and a way of dealing with pain. People who pray often are happier. Buddhists are also happier. If the end result is the same, are the means *that* different? Please understand that when I talk about "praying" I mean something far more twelve-steppish than the average Sunday morning church session - which in my experience is often no more than an exercise for the pastor's ego and of no real constructive use.


In Buddhism there is no higher power, no Deity, no one to appease, or please, or even to pray to. One awakes the Buddha Nature within by meditation and following the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. Having said all that, I try to follow the above but I am one of those Buddhists (and there are some) who believe there is a God, but I do not see "him" as perhaps the Christian does. I see him as another kind of sentient being as much in the need of awakening as any being. (Though I would suppose him to be more awakened that us!)

God is a supremely useful idea, and an excellent belief to hold. If I did not believe in God, coping with (for example) my father's recent death would have been far more difficult. I have friends who are atheists and in general I do not discuss faith with them, because to them ANY faith is tantamount to superstition. This may be a scientifically useful position to take, but it does not help much when friends and family are in pain and dying.

However, I think it does a person some good to reflect in an objective manner on what befalls them, instead of just assuming that it's a higher power either raising them up or casting them down. The Enlightenment thinkers came up with the idea of the "watchmaker" God to cope with this very issue - not that I think God wound up the universe and then just wandered off somewhere after resting it down and forgetting it! Such a God would indeed be in need of having his Buddha nature awakened! I think God would be far more subtle than that.

Hm. Are you at all familiar with the Gaia hypothesis? That basically being that the planet Earth represents a sentient being - the human race only representing the neural network of a larger creature.
As I understand it the Gaia principle comes from the Greek Goddess of the Earth who gave birth to the sky, mountains and sea. It is also the name given to the fragile interaction and interdependence that links all living things. Under that definition I do not see the Earth as being "aware." Nor do I see it as a "being" in the sense that you and I are. But I do see that we are linked to this world and our actions can have a good or bad effect on it.

I also see us as coming out of this world, not into is as the Christian might say. That is why Buddhist are often cremated at death so that the elements that we are made of return to the earth.

If you were to look at it this way, I might ask the question - does a hurricane have a Buddha nature? And if not, is that like saying that though I may have a Buddha nature, for instance, my blood (considered by itself and not as part of the larger system) does not?
I do not see a Hurricane as having a Buddha nature. As far as I know, it does not think, or feel pain.

Where, in the body is the Buddha nature? Is it in the blood? The brain? Is it (and Buddhist don't like the word) in the "soul?" It is not in any part of the body, it just is.

In the Christian view, where is the soul? No one knows. It just is!

I have done some reading in contemporary pop-physics books, and I've got a bit of understanding as to how quantum theory is supposed to mirror Buddhist thought, though I haven't read much of anything in Buddhism. What I mean by "reality" should really be called "totality" - the STUFF that forms us, even if we are only holographic standing wavefronts in a sea of miniscule vibrating strings that may only exist because we want them to. Time may be an illusion and space may be an illusion - and you may even be able to PROVE that mathematically one day - but on a day to day basis we function within the three dimensions that we can sense, and here we are stuck. So it seems to me that Buddha nature represents an effective and relatively painless way of moving *through* the system. If I convince myself that the hurricane isn't real, that my pain isn't real, and that what really matters is the invisible and intangible heart of the universe - is this not, at its root, simply a way to cope with pain?
You would make a good Buddhist!!! You have an understanding greater than most. Perhaps your Buddha nature is awakening. (It can happen outside of Buddhism too!) But when you ask if this is simply a way of coping with pain, I would say that pain is an illusion as well.

I have suffered pain, as we all have. It seemed real to me, but only when I focus on it. Christians have a way of letting go as well. They call it "Let go, and let God." Buddhist would say, "There is nothing to hold on to, so there is nothing to let go."

In prayer, one is supposed to turn over one's sorrows to a higher power. This allows the person who prays to "lighten their load" - perhaps shed some misplaced guilt, or rationalize that a dead loved one is with God and is happy and safe. This is also a way of moving more effectively through the system, and a way of dealing with pain. People who pray often are happier. Buddhists are also happier. If the end result is the same, are the means *that* different? Please understand that when I talk about "praying" I mean something far more twelve-steppish than the average Sunday morning church session - which in my experience is often no more than an exercise for the pastor's ego and of no real constructive use.
Yes it is difference. Christians pray to something, hoping for a result... Buddhist chant with no expectations of results - but results happen anyhow, as long as you don't seek them. What Chanting does is change the Chanter, not the situations. Chanting does not change the storm or its path, but it changes the feelings (fear etc.) one has towards the storm.

God is a supremely useful idea, and an excellent belief to hold. If I did not believe in God, coping with (for example) my father's recent death would have been far more difficult. I have friends who are atheists and in general I do not discuss faith with them, because to them ANY faith is tantamount to superstition. This may be a scientifically useful position to take, but it does not help much when friends and family are in pain and dying.
No, it does not (at least not for you and I.) My Mother died last year. I chanted (with nothing in mind.) She died as comfortably as conditions would allow and I was able to take her death as part of life. I did not need God (and I mean no insult to those who do) but the peace I sought was already within me. I just had to access it.

However, I think it does a person some good to reflect in an objective manner on what befalls them, instead of just assuming that it's a higher power either raising them up or casting them down. The Enlightenment thinkers came up with the idea of the "watchmaker" God to cope with this very issue - not that I think God wound up the universe and then just wandered off somewhere after resting it down and forgetting it! Such a God would indeed be in need of having his Buddha nature awakened! I think God would be far more subtle than that.

One would hope so! However, when the Buddha "discovered" his way of awakening the soul he was told to teach "for the benefit of man, and the Gods!"

I hope I have answered everything. You ask such great questions I am not sure I am equal to the task you set before me.

Let me began by bringing something to light. There was a situation in the book of Matthew when Jesus was caught in a Hurricane on the sea.
Hi Delroy glad to see you are ok actually to see you are all ok.
Now to the point. Please find the word Hurricane in the Bible. I don't even see it in the verse you quote. This is how the stories and interpretations of the Bible are miss used.


I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I also believe that God is in “control” of everything (including the weather). If this is the case then we must ask why God would place His only Son in harms way?

I want to make another note that Jesus slept through the storm and was only made aware of it when fear took over those on “the same boat” with Him. “They woke Him up!”

Now why would God allow His only Son to be placed in such a situation? I believe that everything God does and allows is for a purpose. I believe that the purpose of that storm was made clear that day when Jesus demonstrated that He had power over nature when He told the storm to cease and it obeyed. This was God's way of telling us that with Faith we can have power over the elements also.

With every lesson God gives there is always a test that follows.
Here is Jesus testing His disciples who were the very same people that had already witnessed Him quieting a storm.

Matthew 14:22-33
22 Immediately He made the disciples get into the boat and go ahead of Him to the other side, while He sent the crowds away. 23 After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone. 24 But the boat was already a long distance from the land, battered by the waves; for the wind was contrary. 25 And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea. 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid." 28 Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29 And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But "seeing" the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!" 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" 32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped. 33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"

Notice that when Jesus got into the boat the wind stopped. He could have stopped the wind from the shore but He allowed it to continue to test the Faith of His disciples. Peter was the only one that took a chance at the test. And he only began to sink when he paid attention to the storm instead of Jesus.

You would think that they would all have caught on by now but after this some still did not believe.

I believe that every storm that God allows to come our way is for a reason. In those cases Jesus was trying to teach us Faith and the power of it.

Some storms are brought upon us to identify a problem in our lives that needs to be removed.

Jonah 1:15
So they picked up Jonah, threw him into the sea, and the sea stopped its raging.

Whatever the case; knowing God is key to understanding what He is saying to us.

I believe that this is what God is saying to us.
God doesn't need a Hurricane to punish us like that is His only weapon.
I believe that warning comes before destruction!

I believe that we are on the same boat as Jonah, disobedient and refusing to allow God to direct us. We have a serious leadership problem, not only in the government but also the church the homes. We have allowed the philosophies of men to overshadow the the truth that is in the Word of God and in doing so we have made ourselves God. Therefore terror will come!

Why do I say this?

Psalms 78:22-39
22 Because they believed not in God, And trusted not in his salvation. 23 Yet he commanded the skies above, And opened the doors of heaven; 24 And he rained down manna upon them to eat, And gave them food from heaven. 25 Man did eat the bread of the mighty: He sent them food to the full. 26 He caused the east wind to blow in the heavens; And by his power he guided the south wind. 27 He rained flesh also upon them as the dust, And winged birds as the sand of the seas: 28 And he let it fall in the midst of their camp, Round about their habitations. 29 So they did eat, and were well filled; And he gave them their own desire. 30 They were not estranged from that which they desired, Their food was yet in their mouths, 31 When the anger of God went up against them, And slew of the fattest of them, And smote down the young men of Israel. 32 For all this they sinned still, And believed not in his wondrous works. 33 Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, And their years in terror. 34 When he slew them, then they inquired after him; And they returned and sought God earnestly. 35 And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their redeemer. 36 But they flattered him with their mouth, And lied unto him with their tongue. 37 For their heart was not right with him, Neither were they faithful in his covenant. 38 But he, being merciful, forgave [their] iniquity, and destroyed [them] not: Yea, many a time turned he his anger away, And did not stir up all his wrath. 39 And he remembered that they were but flesh, A wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.

Sounds like before and after September 11th doesn't it?

Psalms 9:20
Put terror in them, Lord;
let the nations know they are only men.

I believe that the Bahamas will be spared separation from God. I believe that we will find true leadership in every area. And I believe that we will cast Jonah from among us.

Hi Delroy glad to see you are ok actually to see you are all ok.
Now to the point. Please find the word Hurricane in the Bible. I don't even see it in the verse you quote. This is how the stories and interpretations of the Bible are miss used.


Hi Vicky, Glad to see you are ok also :tup:
I don't know which version of the Bible you use but I use many to get a better understanding of what it is I am reading.

If you have a good study Bible you will see where Matthew 14:24 cross references with Acts 27:4 where Paul was caught in a Hurricane.

Here are list of areas in the Bible where the word itself was used:

2Sa 22:16 - Show Context
The secret sources of ocean were exposed, the hidden depths of earth lay uncovered The moment God roared in protest, let loose his hurricane anger.

Ps 57:1
Be good to me, God - and now! I've run to you for dear life. I'm hiding out under your wings until the hurricane blows over.

Isa 28:2
Watch closely: God has someone picked out, someone tough and strong to flatten them. Like a hailstorm, like a hurricane, like a flash flood, one-handed he'll throw them to the ground.

Jer 4:12
a gale-force wind. I ordered this wind. I'm pronouncing my hurricane judgment on my people." Your Evil Life Is Piercing Your Heart

Jer 23:19
Look out! God's hurricane will be let loose - my hurricane blast, Spinning the heads of the wicked like tops!

Jer 30:23
Look out! God's hurricane is let loose, his hurricane blast, Spinning the heads of the wicked like dust devils!

Jer 51:1
There's more. God says more: "Watch this: I'm whipping up A death-dealing hurricane against Babylon - 'Hurricane Persia' - against all who live in that perverse land.

Eze 13:11
Tell those who are slapping on the whitewash, 'When a torrent of rain comes and the hailstones crash down and the hurricane sweeps in

Eze 13:13
"And that's exactly what will happen. I, God, the Master, say so: 'I'll let the hurricane of my wrath loose, a torrent of my hailstone-anger.

I don't know which version of the Bible you use but I use many to get a better understanding of what it is I am reading.

If you have a good study Bible you will see where Matthew 14:24 cross references with Acts 27:4 where Paul was caught in a Hurricane.




Delroy, I'd like to point out that the word "hurricane" was brought into the English language from the Arawakan language that was spoken by the original natives of the Bahamas before Columbus landed here in 1492.

Any English translation of the Bible that uses the word "hurricane" was created, therefore, after that time - since before then, the European civilizations that were doing the Bible-translation work had no concept of a "hurricane." To this very day, they strongest storms they get are gales (though those can be plenty strong!). There are no hurricanes (i.e. large tropical storm systems boasting winds of over 75mph and a defined eyewall structure in the center) in either Europe or the Middle East.

I think it would be very interesting to read an earlier Bible translation and see what word they used in the place of "hurricane."

Delroy, I'd like to point out that the word "hurricane" was brought into the English language from the Arawakan language that was spoken by the original natives of the Bahamas before Columbus landed here in 1492.

Any English translation of the Bible that uses the word "hurricane" was created, therefore, after that time - since before then, the European civilizations that were doing the Bible-translation work had no concept of a "hurricane." To this very day, they strongest storms they get are gales (though those can be plenty strong!). There are no hurricanes (i.e. large tropical storm systems boasting winds of over 75mph and a defined eyewall structure in the center) in either Europe or the Middle East.

I think it would be very interesting to read an earlier Bible translation and see what word they used in the place of "hurricane."


Your right lukku,

I guess the translators came to a conclusion that it was a Hurricane based on the conditions describe.

Like when Jobs' family was killed some translations say that satan "caused Fire to come from the sky". This could be what we call in modern day "Lightning".

Delroy, I'd like to point out that the word "hurricane" was brought into the English language from the Arawakan language that was spoken by the original natives of the Bahamas before Columbus landed here in 1492.

Any English translation of the Bible that uses the word "hurricane" was created, therefore, after that time - since before then, the European civilizations that were doing the Bible-translation work had no concept of a "hurricane." To this very day, they strongest storms they get are gales (though those can be plenty strong!). There are no hurricanes (i.e. large tropical storm systems boasting winds of over 75mph and a defined eyewall structure in the center) in either Europe or the Middle East.

I think it would be very interesting to read an earlier Bible translation and see what word they used in the place of "hurricane."


I have a copy of "The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible." It contains, and defines, every word in the Bible - both Greek and Hebrew. The book is about 2,000 pages and the word Hurricane does not appear there.

The words used is "strong winds." Strong winds? Hurricane? Who cares? "A rose by any other name............."

Allot of words that we use today are not in the Bible but we can tell what it is from the description.

Delroy you were doing what most most christian deceivist do: use what ever translation is convenient to back what ever point they are arguing. Most of the scriptures you quoted were metaphors that had nothing to do with the accurance of actual storms.

You said:
2Sa 22:16 - Show Context
The secret sources of ocean were exposed, the hidden depths of earth lay uncovered The moment God roared in protest, let loose his hurricane anger.
But the actual scripture said:
And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.This has nothing to do with a hurricane. If I were translating this I would not have replace this beautiful metaphor with hurricane.

You said:Ps 57:1
Be good to me, God - and now! I've run to you for dear life. I'm hiding out under your wings until the hurricane blows over.
But the more reliable Scripture said:
be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast.
I Hope you won't take refuge in the shadow of anything during a hurricane. You better get inside something solid.

You said:Isa 28:2
Watch closely: God has someone picked out, someone tough and strong to flatten them. Like a hailstorm, like a hurricane, like a flash flood, one-handed he'll throw them to the ground.
Scripture said:
Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
A destroying storm could be a tornado. But I don't think they have either Hurricanes or Tornados In the Middle East. Almost every storm was destructive back then cause most people lived in tents or poorly constructed houses- no building code. So a normal thunder storm to us was a terrible menace to them.
I am just curious. I have computer data bases with all translations of the bible. I checked and I don't see your version. Can u tell me which version you quote so I can get it. Remember the origional Script was lost or destroyed so all these new translations are just third or four hand opinions on what the translator feels should be said.
You know you is ma boy but you need to kill that religion dog