Ryan:

Thanks again for responding.

Based on your last reply, I accept your firm stand to continue with the views that you hold.

Obviously, I do sincerely believe the things I asked you to assume.

I don't think it is anyone's job to try to convice another person about issues of faith or non-faith, especially people like you and me who have, it seems, weighed the issues and made an unwavering decision.

So continue to hold on to your views and stand my friend....I will hold on to mine.

They both have outcomes.

All the best!

My brothers and sisters who have been following this documentary debate on Atheism and Christianity in this forum, as the author of the article I must say that this was very interesting. This clearly shows the fact that God and Satan can dialog as they did in the case of Job to test his faith. I am happy to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit to bring this to your attention.

Such a dialog is a test to prove our faith in God by Satan as he did with Job to prove his faith in God. Though he suffered, he maintained his faith in God. As the Atheist (Satan Advocate) seeks to destroy our faith by trying to disprove the existence of God, this is the time to increase and maintain our faith in God as Job did even after his wife told him to curse God and die as many have done and are doing today. These persons of the world mentioned, though our hearts go out to them in sorrow, Jesus said in St. John chapter 17 verse 9, “ I pray not for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” We are people of God.

I personally will not be offering any further contribution to such a rhetorical debate because it will only be a waste of my time for those who do not believe. However, I will pray that those of you who are weak in your faith and who have chosen to seek into the various website, e.g. infidel.com, to get more insight, I pray that you remain stead fast in your faith in God. The gaining of Knowledge is good, but whenever one allows it to cause them loose their faith in God it becomes a problem.

As Christians we must know that we have been specially chosen by God to serve Him. The Atheist and others can be considered sons of perdition (spiritually ruined) for the fulfilment of the Holy Scriptures. As Christians continue to be persecuted through words, thoughts and deeds of the world, I pray that our faith remains in tact with the only true and living God whom we serve. God bless you all………..Roderick R. Mckenzie

im not athiest, but just curious, how can a person that does not believe in god, believe in satan as you say here. Also, what is a person if they believe in god, but have doubts about everything in the bible (and dont say they are satan worshippers and are going to hell). you would also have to understand that most scientific orientated persons questions things all the time, and do a ton of research on the matters.

Also, to believe that everything written in the bible (a book that has changed and been re-written a billion + times over the last 2000 years) is true is just inconceivable. example, walking on water, healing dying people. It is a plain fact that the human derrived from the ape, so where does adam and eve come in! Also, there were dionsaurs at the time that man was evolving, so were adam and eve actually apes as they were supposed to be the first humans, according to the old testament. As kids we believe in santa claus, the tooth ferry and the easter bunny, until we get old enough to think for ourselves, it is much the same with religion.

Anyway, either way, belief or not, does not make a person good, or bad. A person is what they are and how they treat others, and to say a non christian is a satan advocate, or is going to hell, is just wrong and cruel.

I personally believe in god, and I believe there was a man called jesus, just for the record. Im just not a die hard christian at this time.

Also, all the problems in the world today, are generally religion related, so its perhaps not the best time to be die hard follower in any religion right now, until terrorism and war go away! look at the christians in Northern Ireland, been blowing each other up for years, because they are different christian denominations. Every religion has its problems these days, not just muslims.

peace to all :D

Rory




Originally posted by roddie
My brothers and sisters who have been following this documentary debate on Atheism and Christianity in this forum, as the author of the article I must say that this was very interesting. This clearly shows the fact that God and Satan can dialog as they did in the case of Job to test his faith. I am happy to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit to bring this to your attention.

Such a dialog is a test to prove our faith in God by Satan as he did with Job to prove his faith in God. Though he suffered, he maintained his faith in God. As the Atheist (Satan Advocate) seeks to destroy our faith by trying to disprove the existence of God, this is the time to increase and maintain our faith in God as Job did even after his wife told him to curse God and die as many have done and are doing today. These persons of the world mentioned, though our hearts go out to them in sorrow, Jesus said in St. John chapter 17 verse 9, “ I pray not for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” We are people of God.

I personally will not be offering any further contribution to such a rhetorical debate because it will only be a waste of my time for those who do not believe. However, I will pray that those of you who are week in your faith and who have chosen to seek into the various website, e.g. infidel.com, to get more insight, I pray that you remain stead fast in your faith in God. The gaining of Knowledge is good, but whenever one allows it to cause them loose their faith in God it becomes a problem.

As Christians we must know that we have been specially chosen by God to serve Him. The Atheist and others can be considered sons of perdition (spiritually ruined) for the fulfilment of the Holy Scriptures. As Christians continue to be persecuted through words, thoughts and deeds of the world, I pray that our faith remains in tact with the only true and living God whom we serve. God bless you all………..Roderick R. Mckenzie

Originally posted by Rory
im not athiest, but just curious, how can a person that does not believe in god, believe in satan as you say here. Also, what is a person if they believe in god, but have doubts about everything in the bible (and dont say they are satan worshippers and are going to hell). you would also have to understand that most scientific orientated persons questions things all the time, and do a ton of research on the matters.

Also, to believe that everything written in the bible (a book that has changed and been re-written a billion + times over the last 2000 years) is true is just inconceivable. example, walking on water, healing dying people. It is a plain fact that the human derrived from the ape, so where does adam and eve come in! Also, there were dionsaurs at the time that man was evolving, so were adam and eve actually apes as they were supposed to be the first humans, according to the old testament. As kids we believe in santa claus, the tooth ferry and the easter bunny, until we get old enough to think for ourselves, it is much the same with religion.
Agreed, but there are many things in the Bible that sound absurd, but can be proven by everyday science. I am not a Christian, but many events in the Bible DID take place.

Anyway, either way, belief or not, does not make a person good, or bad. A person is what they are and how they treat others, and to say a non christian is a satan advocate, or is going to hell, is just wrong and cruel.

I personally believe in god, and I believe there was a man called jesus, just for the record. Im just not a die hard christian at this time.
That sounds like a good life philosophy to me. People like you give Christians a good name.

Also, all the problems in the world today, are generally religion related, so its perhaps not the best time to be die hard follower in any religion right now, until terrorism and war go away! look at the christians in Northern Ireland, been blowing each other up for years, because they are different christian denominations. Every religion has its problems these days, not just muslims.
Could not agree more. We (the human race) need to set aside our differences, and embrace the diverse cultures of the world. That is what makes this world great.:tup:

Rory I could not have said it any better. If I ever become convinced of the christian doctrine and belief system I would want you to be my minister. You make a 'hell' of lot more sense than R . Mckenzie. Rev' we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject for now. I only hope that one day you will take the time to seriously study what I have studied and if you can't find an ounce of truth in what I am saying or what atheism is all about then I suppose you are forever resigned to your 'fate'.

Roddie:

Sorry I'm just responding but I have to call a foul! This is your thread and apart from my initial response, I was just silently following the discussion. You graciously pulled me into it and I did two posts to Ryan.

While you might not feel a need to contribute to the discussion presently, I enourage you to be open to do so in the future...remember, you started the thread.

Also, I would encourage you to avoid classifications like "Satan's Advocate" and suggesting that athiests can be considered "sons of perdition"...these further bog down and distract the discussion.

It is my view that there are some sincere athiests as well as insincere ones. The sincere ones are sincerely searching. The insincere ones, in my view, are playing games and would just like to believe there is no God to whom they are answerable and accountable at the end of the day.

Like you, I do not intend to debate this issue. There is no need to. Discuss...yes...debate....no. However, I will make contributions from time to time.

So Roddie, what do you say?

First of all I am sorry it took me so long to respond. If you would notice all of the classifications that I use come from the Bible in which I believe. The faith that I have in God will not allow me to compromise His word or weaver in my belief to please the mindset of persons of the world to facilitate a debate or discussion. Should we as Christians allow ourselves to be trapped into “debates or discussions “ to be lambasted by non-believers who try make a mockery of our faith? God forbid. Though we are to spread the word of God throughout the world, we should always be mindful of the persons who wish to trap us with worldly questions which only persons of the faith can comprehend the answer. Such questions do not deserve an answer to the non-believer who will not understand. We are to follow the paths of Jesus and know when these questions are being asked to trap us as they tried with Him in the past.

I must say that I am impressed with your biblical knowledge and the way you try to answer the various negative comments on our faith. However, you tend to give room for compromise at times for our faith for the sake of discussion and debate. In this case I see the need to call a foul. Let us be mindful that this is what the atheist and others love to see among Christians to give them reason to doubt us as believers. Even as I write this thread they would love to see this as a discord among us as we disagree on certain principles.

Yes! I do intend to continue to make a contribution to all of my post and others as the need arises to do so. As I am blessed with this gift of writing to educate my brothers and sisters in the word of God, I will not leave room for compromise. Jesus never did, and I intend to follow his lead even though I may fall at times. Keep up the good work my brother………………….Roderick R. Mckenzie

First of all I am sorry it took me so long to respond. If you would notice all of the classifications that I use come from the Bible in which I believe. The faith that I have in God will not allow me to compromise His word or weaver in my belief to please the mindset of persons of the world to facilitate a debate or discussion. Should we as Christians allow ourselves to be trapped into “debates or discussions “ to be lambasted by non-believers who try make a mockery of our faith? God forbid.

Roddie, thanks for responding and getting back in the discussion. I will list my response in point form since it will be easier to follow:

1. My earlier post was not encouraging you to continue to be a part of this discussion thread just for the sake of debate. My point was and still is that you should not just drop it primarily because it is a discussion thread that you started. You do not have to respond to every single post but I do believe that staying open to discuss issues, especially those that you started, is in keeping with the whole purpose of BahamasIssues.

Again, this was and is my primary point, Roddie, so I am glad that you indicated that you intend to make contributions to all of your posts as the need arises.

2. I have no problem with the classifications you used...the language is Biblical. My objection is that you applied these words to people you don't know other than by their assumed names on this site. In addition, you seemed to be implying that just because these persons were atheists they are sons of perdition. That can't be right. Perhaps some are, but should all atheist be considered sons of perdition? Certainly not! Besides, the Lord loves atheists and is patient with them, even those who oppose themselves. We can never love and have patience like the Lord but we need to try.

Though we are to spread the word of God throughout the world, we should always be mindful of the persons who wish to trap us with worldly questions which only persons of the faith can comprehend the answer. Such questions do not deserve an answer to the non-believer who will not understand. We are to follow the paths of Jesus and know when these questions are being asked to trap us as they tried with Him in the past.

Roddie, you will note from the ministry of Jesus that the only people who tried to trap him with questions and debates were the religious scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees…all religious people. Jesus at times cut them short but many times he took the time and even taught them. Atheists are not religious people and to that extent we should be open to sincere discussion with them.

Away from special revelation from the Lord, we don't know any sons of perdition. Therefore, you should avoid classifying people that way. The reason that grace is amazing is that the most vile and wicked are saved by it…so let’s not count anyone out.

I know proclaimed atheists who have come to know the Lord. However, it does require some patience on our part to engage those who are willing to discuss atheism versus Christianity.

3. I do not at all feel trapped in a debate or discussion. I contribute when I want to...no one forces me to. Our faith has been lambasted and ridiculed since the day of Jesus and it will continue. However, because our faith is genuine, it has survived the ridicule and lambasting and will continue to do so.

I must say that I am impressed with your biblical knowledge and the way you try to answer the various negative comments on our faith.

Thanks…you are very kind.

However, you tend to give room for compromise at times for our faith for the sake of discussion and debate. In this case I see the need to call a foul.

This statement Roddie, is a foul. You are stating your opinion as if it is a fact when it is not. What you should say is in your opinion I tend to give room for compromise for our faith for the sake of discussion and comment. If you had stated your opinion that way, I would have not called a foul. However, I would and do disagree with you, but I can’t fight your opinion, we are all entitled to our own.

Roddie, I try to avoid compromise and dogmatism. I try my best to honestly present what God’s Word says. My contributions on BahamasIssues are not for sheer debate and meaningless discussion. For me, I feel the same sense of responsibility for what I say on this site as I do for what I teach those who sit under my ministry in churches.

Let us be mindful that this is what the atheist and others love to see among Christians to give them reason to doubt us as believers. Even as I write this thread they would love to see this as a discord among us as we disagree on certain principles.

Roddie, please be assured that open discussion between Christians in and of itself is not a turn off or stumbling block to the world, atheists included. Hypocrisy is a greater turn off. Many Christians try to fool the world into believing that we all agree on everything. We do not and the world knows that the church is not united. Look at all the denominations and splinter groups. We have different beliefs and doctrines so we can’t pretend that we don’t. But our differences are not necessarily bad in and of themselves. Even those that are bad, God has and continues to use them redemptively.

I know that there are some discussions that are better done in private, not just for the sake of non-believers, but believers as well. However, this discussion is not one of them.

As I am blessed with this gift of writing to educate my brothers and sisters in the word of God, I will not leave room for compromise. Jesus never did, and I intend to follow his lead even though I may fall at times. Keep up the good work my brother.

Yes, you do have a writing gift, and I encourage you to use it in this and other forums. Likewise, keep up the good work.