He has sure messed the place up enough to be picked on.
Fishy? It is a story, a good story of failure. If no one reported on it you would accuse the press of ignoring Africa.
Reminds me what people used to say about Hitler. "At least he made the trains run on time!"
Not really.
Why? Britain cant turn the clock back. It would be in their best interest to have the country, and their investments stable.
...and now he is the brutal oppressor.
Africa ultimately controls it, but they don't know how.
Many African oppose him as well.
But he has built a school or two - so that gives him a free pass?
Brutalizing other people, as bad as that is, is one thing. Brutalizing your own is another.


Hey CG, on a side note, your BI name is the same as my initials.
I dunno how to qoute get multiple quotes in a post like you did, so sorry if my reply looks bad.

Just to clear things up. I agree Mugabe is a bad leader and has done bad/evil things. I'm not excusing him for this.

"Fishy? It is a story, a good story of failure. If no one reported on it you would accuse the press of ignoring Africa."
Actually, you got it right on the ball....it is a good story of failure. A black African government that wanted to redistribute land failed, so white controlled western media is advocating he be taken out. I do accuse the press of ignoring Africa to a large extent though.....not on the issue though...instead of ignoring they are clearly being biased.

"Reminds me what people used to say about Hitler. "At least he made the trains run on time!"
Granted, it does seem small in comparison to what he's accused off. I just find weird that the western media is so one sided in its coverage of the situtation, actaully its sad that that one small piece of information is the most common positive thing known.

Zimbabew does have a complicated and rich history. Different languages, tribes, cultures, desirable land, wars, colonization, segregation of white and blacks, forced farming, brutal British occupation, majority of land controlled by small white minority, rebelions, movements for black Africans to get control of land, etcs.

"Why? Britain cant turn the clock back. It would be in their best interest to have the country, and their investments stable."
You hit the hammer on the nail again. Mugabe's government severly impacted British and western investments and interests by taking away their land and attempting to redistribute it. Therefore, it is in the interests of Western nations to see that reversed and Mugabe overthrown. They do want to turn the clock back to before Mugabe to over.....they lost a bunch of money and land. The white European settlers want their land and money back.
That is why the western nations and media are so hellbent on destabilising Mugabe's government, at least in my opinion, and I know I might be wrong, but I just think its way to obvious how biased western media is and how the western powers are trying to kill the concept of redistribution of land for all other African nations.

"...and now he is the brutal oppressor."
Granted he is accused of being a brutal oppressor, but that does not excuse Britain and other European nations for the atrocities they committed while occupying Africa for centuries. Once again, here comes the western media....make Mugabe look like Hitler and everyone will forget how horrible, evil, and oppressive the Europeans were. Once again, I'm not excusing Mugabe, just pointing out what the majority of western media seems to be ignoring.

"Africa ultimately controls it, but they don't know how."
African nations are still controlled by Western nations. For centuries European countries raped africa, exported labour, exported mass amounts of raw material, and now everyone expects Africa to be modern. Come on, that's not fair.
If you get a chance, please watch an old PBS documentary called 'The Africans.' I will look for the video and the author and I'll try to post it. It summarizes what I mean by this point way better then I can.

"Many African oppose him as well."
True. But don't forget to openly support Mugabe is political suicide. The US will call you Axis of Evil, and western nations will rush to impose sanctions and discourage other nations from supporting Zimbabwe. After seeing how the western powers and media have attacked Zimbabwe, don't you think that would intimidate other African nations?

"but he has built a school or two - so that gives him a free pass?"
Absolutely not. I don't think he should be excused of his crimes. The western media tells us he committed brutal crimes, and is leading the charge against prosecuting him. Funny, how come there isn't as much emphasis from the western media about prosecuting Bush for war crimes committed in Iraq and Afghanistan? Just to make it clear to you, I'll say it again, I'm not defending Mugabe of charges against him for crimes, that's his job. I'm saying there is a clear cut case of bias by the western media against him and his government.

"Brutalizing other people, as bad as that is, is one thing. Brutalizing your own is another."
This was the attitude I held for years. I was very anti-Mugabe for a long time. My family hates him, when I tried to mention the bias of the western media my entire family ganged up on me.
However, I find it amazing that Britain is leading the charge against Mugabe when they themselves practiced bruatal oppression of Zimbabwe.
The western media is focusing on Mugabe, and ignoring what the eurpeans did.

Also, how would Mugabe get fair trail when clearly the western media is biased against him? We automatically assume he is guilty of mass crimes against humanity because that's what the media tells us. But why is the western (white) media so against this man? Surely Bush is responsible for far more deaths then Mugabe is?

Not at all. He is a brut!
It is hardly massive but many people want to see him out - not the least ex-pat Zimbabweans, Black and White that had to flee for their lives.
The people? South Africa is not to happy with him as I hear. Messes up the whole southern region.
I am not sure they are. Most could care less.
Go visit!


I can't keep up with you man....I gotta figure out how to multiple qoute. I wish there was a way to see the comments you were quoting me on, I keep having to go back and forth.

"Not at all. He is a brut!"
Ok so funny wasn't the right word. Baffling might have been a better choice.

"It is hardly massive but many people want to see him out - not the least ex-pat Zimbabweans, Black and White that had to flee for their lives."
But why don't we hear the other side of the story? Why don't we hear Mugabe's side in the international media? How can we be sure we have the truth if we only hear one point of view?

"The people? South Africa is not to happy with him as I hear. Messes up the whole southern region."
Which people? The wealthy people who lost their land? That whole region is messed up anyways.....South Africa is struggling with all the post effects of a bloody quest for violence, which is a good time to point out in the 90's the western media was obsessed with the black on black violence between the ANC and Inkatha in SA, but later found out the white governments were training, arming, and funding the zulu militants.
I wonder if the same is going on in Zimbabwe today? Are outside elements purposely trying to destabilize Zimbabwe like the whites did in SA?

"I am not sure they are. Most could care less."
Exactly! The majority of people don't care that the western media is clearly biased! They don't care why, correction WE don't care why! That isn't good.

are they doing it now?

Absolutely. The Europeans and Western countries are still colonizing/controlling Africa through loans with high interest, debt, international treaties, trade agreement, etc.
Anyone seen the movie Lord of War, based of a real dude. Western governments are the number one makers of guns....which they sell to nations like Zimbabwe.

Seems his own country men and women are also against his regime?


'Seems' is what I'm getting at! The western dominated international media is telling us that. Perception is important. The US led the world to believe Iraq had WMD's....the western media went right along with that...why should we trust them on Zimbabwe?

Once again, I am not defending Mugabe's actions. I do believe he has committed crimes, but I find it amazing how the world is willing to go along with one point of view and condemn a government based on biased, one sided reporting.
It's scary that the international media and the western powers can do that in Zimbabwe, what if they did it do the Bahamas? If the FNM or PLP did something radical like demand the British government apologize for slavery/reparations, if they supported Cuba, if they legalized drugs, etc....we would be overwhelmingly attacked by the media and western powers....Now hold on, before you quote on that....I'm not saying it would be good or right to do any of those things....I'm just saying its scary that national soverignty can be easily undermined by the media if they cose to.
Mugabe started out by saying he wanted to redistribute land. Take some land away from the rich whites and give to the blacks. Now look what happened with that......the western media and the western nations have launched an all out campaign to get rid of him.

The Western Media isnt any more Bias than any other media around the world, the media is what it is, everywhere. ;)


I gotta disagree with you there Rory. The western media is inherently biased because the western media is dominated by capitalist countries....so naturally will be biased towards capitalism. UNESCO admitted to this and it has been a big point for non allied nations in the UN.

They arent IN control of the countries though, they dont have slaves and such as in the past, they arent in there killing the people as those regimes themselves are, these are different people and different times, things HAVE changed. The leaders of the countries with loans have a choice like everyone else, not to take the loans. Also, those gun manufacturers are private companies, so its not the governments making them.

Whoa. This is the most posting I've ever done. This is fueling my prograstination for studying for my finals and writing my 20 page paper. Gonna have to stop soon.

I think western nations ARE in control though. They control the Africa with economics (i.e. loans, debts, trade agreements, etc) and lets not forget they have a monopoly on media. Western nations can impart media to the world, African nations have limited ability to do so...they can recieve but not impart (also a big international communications issue being addressed in UNESCO).

Things haven't changed that much. Western government subsidize gun makers, and also get slices from international deals brokered.
The leaders of African nations don't really have that much of a choice, if they don't take loans from western nations they get slammed with economic weapons the west has at its disposal, like cutting international aid...labeling those countries as terrorist havens (look at Eritrea), etc.

The west still controls Africa. And they don't want that to change.

If you ponder back a few posts you will notice those are from news sources other than western media, and they are saying the same thing the western media is saying - so it appears the western media is simply getting their information from the Zimbabweans themselves.


Oh about that....sorry I thought I mentioned that...my bad.
Regarding that, most news agencies around the world (including non western media) get their info from three sources. AP, AFP, and Reuters. All 3 are western media. AP American, AFP France, and Reuters British.
The western media and western powers have eagerly scooped up and supported all anti-Mugabe stories. Think about it, someone has to go find the stories, someone has to report on the stories, somone has to pay those reporters.
In terms of journalism, it would be unethical (but it is being done) for news agencies to just take what people are saying about Mugabe and report it as fact. They should be sending reporters to verify and do actual reporting. Saddly, this doesn't happen much....not many news agencies can afford foreign correspondents....so some pissed of wealth white Zimbabwe farmer's words will have to do.

The majority of stories out on the internet are anti-Mugabe....you have to look long and hard to find pro-Mugabe stuff. Once again, why? Why the clear bias?
Once again, I ain't supporting Mugabe. I'm opposing western media biased, unethical reporting, and the co-operation between the western media and western foreign policy.

So you dont think the "other" media are not biased? Seeing as most of them are controlled by their (in many cases rogue) governments .. I would imagine being biased is the least of their worries.


Whoa, posting is taking a lot of time. And I ain't even caught up with all your replies yet.

Sorry about my not being clear (I do that alot). I don't think other media are not biased, they are. I'm just saying the western media is biased. Biased towards supporting capitalism and western nations, including their foreign policy.

About the second part of your quote, sorry I'm confused. Who is them? Do you mean other medias, like China's media, or state run media in developing nations? If you do, I agree they are biased as well.
There aren't many unbiased media outlets in the world, you just gotta find the ones that are the least biased.
I try to never go with just one source. I check a wide variety of media before coming to any conclusion (well at least I try to, I am very guilty of not always though).

True, well we also gotta get your post count up, but not at the expense of your finals ;)


Tru dat.
I stopping posting at 4:30. Then its time to starting chugging energy drinks and study.

I gotta disagree with you there Rory. The western media is inherently biased because the western media is dominated by capitalist countries....so naturally will be biased towards capitalism. UNESCO admitted to this and it has been a big point for non allied nations in the UN.

Word to the wise.

Don't defend Mugabe. He messed up big time.

Don't make the mistake of viewing things as a "conspiracy" against Mugabe planned by the "Western world". It is a bad habit of our race that when our black leaders mess up, we then turn things into a race issue instead of holding them 150% accountable for their actions.

He messed up by driving out citizens of his country because they were a certain color. Citizens who hired, fed and housed other citizens regardless of their color and now cannot do these things any more.

If anything, more pressure needs to be put on African leaders to stop their madness and widespread corruption. They keep their people, our people, in devastating and abominable poverty while hording the riches for themselves.

Accountability needs to be upheld. Unfortunately there are few black countries with enough world power to flex against certain corrupt African leaders, so the message to "straighten up and fly right" tends to come from countries that are not "black" led. What happens next is that these corrupt black leaders tend to be beguiling enough to turn things around in the eyes of their people by using the race issue, claiming that they are being persecuted by "white regimes" or "white colonizers". Sadly, due to the animosity created by the memories of the slave trade, this type of persecution claim is often supported by the citizenry and they thus overlook the mistakes of these African leaders instead of kicking them out as they should.

The above type of nonsense needs to stop. It is a vicious cycle, supported by a glaring lack of education and an overwhelming level of misinformation. When our people get over the race issue, things will begin to change for the better and we won't fall for it anymore. When our leaders mess up, we will have the heart to tell them that we won't blindly support them because of color.

Hey CG, on a side note, your BI name is the same as my initials.
They are mine too! Lol!
I dunno how to qoute get multiple quotes in a post like you did, so sorry if my reply looks bad.
Multiple quotes are easy, somewhat! You simply add the persons quote at the front of the message, if I was quoting you I would put [QUOTE=hiphopanonymous] At the end of the message I would put [/QUOTE An ] goes at after the E, if I put it now it will look like a quote from you. You can copy/paste those things in.

As for the rest of your post. It is clear that Mugabe is the problem, not the solution. Had Mugabe not gaged his own press we might hear more of his side of the story.

If you can take a trip out there. That way you will see for yourself how "the land lies." Africa is in a mess and I agree there needs to be a guy who can pull it all together but it is not Mugabe.

one of the sites was a Zimbabwean news agency, or at least it claimed to be. :)

Ya I can create a website that is called Bahamas News Agency.
Anyone can.
Now a days, information can be easily created and spread through the internet....the problem is most news agencies aren't checking sources and doing proper reporting...they're just picking info they like and presenting it as the truth.
They're not being very objective or fair in terms of reporting.

Word to the wise.
Don't defend Mugabe. He messed up big time.
Don't make the mistake of viewing things as a "conspiracy" against Mugabe planned by the "Western world". It is a bad habit of our race that when our black leaders mess up, we then turn things into a race issue instead of holding them 150% accountable for their actions.
He messed up by driving out citizens of his country because they were a certain color. Citizens who hired, fed and housed other citizens regardless of their color and now cannot do these things any more.
If anything, more pressure needs to be put on African leaders to stop their madness and widespread corruption. They keep their people, our people, in devastating and abominable poverty while hording the riches for themselves.
Accountability needs to be upheld. Unfortunately there are few black countries with enough world power to flex against certain corrupt African leaders, so the message to "straighten up and fly right" tends to come from countries that are not "black" led. What happens next is that these corrupt black leaders tend to be beguiling enough to turn things around in the eyes of their people by using the race issue, claiming that they are being persecuted by "white regimes" or "white colonizers". Sadly, due to the animosity created by the memories of the slave trade, this type of persecution claim is often supported by the citizenry and they thus overlook the mistakes of these African leaders instead of kicking them out as they should.

The above type of nonsense needs to stop. It is a vicious cycle, supported by a glaring lack of education and an overwhelming level of misinformation. When our people get over the race issue, things will begin to change for the better and we won't fall for it anymore. When our leaders mess up, we will have the heart to tell them that we won't blindly support them because of color.

I dunno how many times I can say it: I am not defending Mugabe or his actions.
I am saying that the western dominated media is clearly biased against him.
It might not be a conspiracy per se, but the western media is clearly co-operating with western governments and their foreign policy through their selective reporting.

You're right it is a vicious cycle....however the people responsible for starting the whole cycle were the white, European colonizers.
I do think race is a factor though. Black Mugabe took away land from white colonizers....yes he messed it up. But do you honestly think those white farmers just rolled over? No, they had contacts in various European nations. They had family and business associates. A lot of rich, powerful people were effected.
So the western nations imposed sanctions, cut aid, called in debt payments, etc.
And then the western dominated media came in. They attacked Mugabe, labelling him as a vicious black tyrant oppressing his own people.
Once again, not defending Mugabe or his actions, just pointing out the bias and the clear cut case of international powers ganging up on Mugabe.
If they can do it do him, they can do it to anyone. We have to stand up against the co-operation of the western media and western powers before they get out of control.

or BahamasPress.com :D

Thats pretty much all news media, world wide. Best source of detailed information are documentaries, from those without agendas though, short of seeing it for ourselves.

Exactomundo.
I was trying to think of a local example...I was gonna use Fred's site.
Agree about documentaries (check out The Africans: Tools of Exploitation), but you have to figure out the reason why they were made and who made them....

......I dunno how many times I can say it: I am not defending Mugabe or his actions.....
I am saying that the western dominated media is clearly biased against him.

But if he is a bully, and a mess how is the media being bias by saying he is?