Hi.

SOrry for entering from across the sea, but searching for Guy Fawks (on this day I believe) I ran into this forum and read about Bishop Green receiving an order from the British Monarch QEII. I red different threads about how he couldn't receive it, because the UK accepts same sex couples. Is Bahamas in general really this backward?

Surprised!
Marc Brudane
Brussels, Belgium

Hi.

SOrry for entering from across the sea, but searching for Guy Fawks (on this day I believe) I ran into this forum and read about Bishop Green receiving an order from the British Monarch QEII. I red different threads about how he couldn't receive it, because the UK accepts same sex couples. Is Bahamas in general really this backward?

Surprised!
Marc Brudane
Brussels, Belgium


Hi Marc,

Can you tell me (in your opinion) what is forward?

Hi Marc,

Can you tell me (in your opinion) what is forward?

This should be intersting

Hi.

SOrry for entering from across the sea, but searching for Guy Fawks (on this day I believe) I ran into this forum and read about Bishop Green receiving an order from the British Monarch QEII. I red different threads about how he couldn't receive it, because the UK accepts same sex couples. Is Bahamas in general really this backward?

Surprised!
Marc Brudane
Brussels, Belgium



yes, 3rd world :bored:

yes, 3rd world :bored:


But with some first world characteristics!

[the wheat and the tares growing together, like the good book says].

But with some first world characteristics!

[the wheat and the tares growing together, like the good book says].

Tares?? depends on who you refer to as tares.

But with some first world characteristics!

[the wheat and the tares growing together, like the good book says].


You see Great Demos there is this misconception in the minds of some people that backwards is any objection to their form of ideology or thought. Their road to a perfect world! America has it, Muslims have it and some who call themselves "Christians" have it. Every religion has their own road so to some it is a challenge to choose which road to take. This is why we call these people "Lost". They are all guessers who experiment with lives of people by implementing laws according to their on nature and idea of progression. My question is how can you progress on the things that have already been created by God. How can man make a better flower? Find me one person on earth who can make better laws than the Ten Commandments. Laws created by man changes everyday but Gods' laws are still the same.


America has not succeeded in creating this perfect world noting the fact there have been more wars than ever since the rule of Democracy had been invented. Islam and organized Christianity failed a long time ago. Great Britain and their rule of Monarchy now only really exist in Beckenham after almost every nation that they conquer has become independent. They failed and their road has been rejected. America is now feeling what Britain felt years ago. And they will have the same faith. This last election proved that America is divided and Jesus said in Matthew 12:25 that: "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand."

Jesus said that every Kingdom will fail before He returns to establish His true and ever lasting Kingdom. This is why Jesus told us to pray for His Kingdom to come: "Thy Kingdom come and Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven"

The Bible is the Word of the Kingdom. Jesus in said in Matthew 13:19 that "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road." It is a map and a guide to find this road to a perfect world. We can depend on this map because it has never failed. Every other map has lead us into the wrong direction.

The truth is that I am not right, you are not right, and they are not right. Only the word of God is right and we must depending on it for everything. I will never except anything else besides the laws that God has given me because my Government is in Heaven and my allegiance is to God and God alone. I would rather die before I accept the righteousness of men.

Delroy! Although I applaud your belief, I can't resist answering some of your questions - even if they required no answer.

First of all you asked. "How can man make a better flower?" It happens all the time. New varieties, with better colours, more disease resistant, with more and bigger flowers are created all the time. The rose that we all know and love, looks nothing like the "wild" or God created rose. His rose had four petals. The man improved rose has much more and is much better in fragrance and appearance.

You also wrote "Find me one person on earth who can make better laws than the Ten Commandments." That is true, and we can thank the Hittites for that. This is a quote from http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c4.htm#auth "The original text appears to be similar to "treaties imposed by Hittite kings on their vassals in the 14th-13th centuries" BCE. The Hittite documents and the Ten Commandments appear to be both divided into the same six sections: stating the name of the ruler, his status, benefits to the people, detailed description of their obligations, "Heaven and earth and various natural features... called to witness" the treaty, and sanctions for non-compliance. Thus, the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments appear to have been copied from original documents written by the Hittites or some similar neighboring Pagan group. Some politicians love to state that the source of the laws of the country is the Decalogue. They appear to be wrong; the original source is to be found in the Pagan writings of the Hittites."

So, the Ten Commandments seem to have been a creation of man - or perhaps they did come from God, as he revealed Himself to the Hittites?

You stated, "I would rather die before I accept the righteousness of men." But you do accept it. By righteousness I assume you mean the laws of man. These laws govern us in small and big ways. I assume that you follow the traffic laws? There is nothing in the Bible that states "thou shall not speed!" You do live by man's laws - we all do, for the good of society. Many of man's laws are based on Holy writings. Some have been adapted and are subject to mitigation. But we all live by them.

As Christianity has borrowed heavily from other traditions, I am sure you will not mind me quoting some more Buddhist Wisdom?
"In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible". - From, The Dhammapada.

That is a law that both the Christian and the Buddhist can subscribe to.

As for calling other people "lost." We are all lost. Some think they have found the road out. But we will never know if it is the right road until we reach the end. All we can do in the meantime is to follow the quote written above from the Dhammapada, or its equal in our own Holy Books.

Tares?? depends on who you refer to as tares.


The perfect explanation is found in Matthew 13: 24-30 and Matthew 13: 36-43.

The first scripture gives the parable and the 2nd explains the parable. This is by Jesus Himself (whom you believe in).

You see Great Demos there is this misconception in the minds of some people that backwards is any objection to their form of ideology or thought. Their road to a perfect world! America has it, Muslims have it and some who call themselves "Christians" have it. Every religion has their own road so to some it is a challenge to choose which road to take. This is why we call these people "Lost". They are all guessers who experiment with lives of people by implementing laws according to their on nature and idea of progression. My question is how can you progress on the things that have already been created by God. How can man make a better flower? Find me one person on earth who can make better laws than the Ten Commandments. Laws created by man changes everyday but Gods' laws are still the same.


America has not succeeded in creating this perfect world noting the fact there have been more wars than ever since the rule of Democracy had been invented. Islam and organized Christianity failed a long time ago. Great Britain and their rule of Monarchy now only really exist in Beckenham after almost every nation that they conquer has become independent. They failed and their road has been rejected. America is now feeling what Britain felt years ago. And they will have the same faith. This last election proved that America is divided and Jesus said in Matthew 12:25 that: "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand."

Jesus said that every Kingdom will fail before He returns to establish His true and ever lasting Kingdom. This is why Jesus told us to pray for His Kingdom to come: "Thy Kingdom come and Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven"

The Bible is the Word of the Kingdom. Jesus in said in Matthew 13:19 that "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road." It is a map and a guide to find this road to a perfect world. We can depend on this map because it has never failed. Every other map has lead us into the wrong direction.

The truth is that I am not right, you are not right, and they are not right. Only the word of God is right and we must depending on it for everything. I will never except anything else besides the laws that God has given me because my Government is in Heaven and my allegiance is to God and God alone. I would rather die before I accept the righteousness of men.


OK Delroy, most of your points are well taken.

I agree that man cannot improve on what God has already done. Everytime man tries to, he makes inferior products, some of which are almost useless. [I shall explain this more fully when I answer our friend CG after church].

I notice you mention "Islam and organized Christianity have failed....." I take it you are referring to Christianity as a whole which will also include many false prophets and apostles.

I believe some of the big nations will be defeated from within, not by powers/armies from the outside. I could be wrong in this but I have a feeling that many of those who are opposed to Bush serving a second term are people not living (or trying to live) at a high moral standard!

The perfect explanation is found in Matthew 13: 24-30 and Matthew 13: 36-43.

The first scripture gives the parable and the 2nd explains the parable. This is by Jesus Himself (whom you believe in).

Who are you calling tares????

As a matter of interest the word Tares, (in Greek zizznion) has an uncertain meaning but generally it is held to be the plant called Darnel - weedy annual grass that often occurs in grainfields and other cultivated land; seeds sometimes considered poisonous!!!

An old gardener once told me that one man's weed is another mans treasure.

Who are you calling tares????


Vicky, when you ask who am I calling tares, am kind of losing you. I thought verse 38 explains it clearly enough: Christ says "...the tares are the sons of the wicked one". I take that to mean sons of Satan, ie, people who are woefully wicked

Now, drawing from that scripture, that is my interpretation of what is meant by tares in that context.

If I am incorrect, all I can say is what I heard Joyce Meyer once said, that she does not believe that anyone or any religious denomination has the correct interpretation ALL the scriptures, and that although we don't fully understand ALL scriptures, there is MUCH that we DO understand.

Delroy! Although I applaud your belief, I can't resist answering some of your questions - even if they required no answer.

First of all you asked. "How can man make a better flower?" It happens all the time. New varieties, with better colours, more disease resistant, with more and bigger flowers are created all the time. The rose that we all know and love, looks nothing like the "wild" or God created rose. His rose had four petals. The man improved rose has much more and is much better in fragrance and appearance.

You also wrote "Find me one person on earth who can make better laws than the Ten Commandments." That is true, and we can thank the Hittites for that. This is a quote from http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c4.htm#auth "The original text appears to be similar to "treaties imposed by Hittite kings on their vassals in the 14th-13th centuries" BCE. The Hittite documents and the Ten Commandments appear to be both divided into the same six sections: stating the name of the ruler, his status, benefits to the people, detailed description of their obligations, "Heaven and earth and various natural features... called to witness" the treaty, and sanctions for non-compliance. Thus, the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments appear to have been copied from original documents written by the Hittites or some similar neighboring Pagan group. Some politicians love to state that the source of the laws of the country is the Decalogue. They appear to be wrong; the original source is to be found in the Pagan writings of the Hittites."

So, the Ten Commandments seem to have been a creation of man - or perhaps they did come from God, as he revealed Himself to the Hittites?

You stated, "I would rather die before I accept the righteousness of men." But you do accept it. By righteousness I assume you mean the laws of man. These laws govern us in small and big ways. I assume that you follow the traffic laws? There is nothing in the Bible that states "thou shall not speed!" You do live by man's laws - we all do, for the good of society. Many of man's laws are based on Holy writings. Some have been adapted and are subject to mitigation. But we all live by them.

As Christianity has borrowed heavily from other traditions, I am sure you will not mind me quoting some more Buddhist Wisdom?
"In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible". - From, The Dhammapada.

That is a law that both the Christian and the Buddhist can subscribe to.

As for calling other people "lost." We are all lost. Some think they have found the road out. But we will never know if it is the right road until we reach the end. All we can do in the meantime is to follow the quote written above from the Dhammapada, or its equal in our own Holy Books.


Ok CG, I never studied how man experimented with and improved flowers, but for sure they really messed up fruits and vegetables. I have heard so many anecdotes about how the hybrid varieties of friut and vegetables have little or no nutrients, that most of them are only fit for fibre. Over the years I have read so much that is negative of what herbalists, nutritionists and medical doctors said about hybrids, that I was under the impression that anytime man tried to improve on nature in anything he would fail miserably. I believe you must know of these experiments regarding hybrid fruits and vegetables.

When Delroy spoke of not accepting the righteousness of man, I was assuming he was referring to that part of Acts 5:29 which states, "We ought to obey God rather than men". I believe Christians are obligated to obey God's laws if man's laws conflict with God's.

I think a perfect example of this is the case of a Christian lady who was the accountant for a company. A customer had overpaid a bill by sending in a cheque for much more than the selling price of the purchased item. The manager/owner of the business told her not to send out any statements to the customer with the credit balance. Apparently he was planning to put in a journal entry later to clear the records, which would reflect a zero balance on the customer's account. But the lady knew that the proper thing to do was to send the customer a cheque for the overpayment. By obeying the manager, the company would be guilty of stealing, robbing the customer of money he was entitled to.

The accountant held her ground and told her boss that in all good conscience she could not do what he had requested. She was afraid -- she did not want to lose her job. A few days later he came, slapped the statement on her desk and told her to send the customer a cheque for the difference. The upshot to this was that she received a top promotion on the job, just subordinate to the owner himself! He felt that she was a person of good morals whom he could trust!

There is nothing in the Bible that says "thou shall not speed", fine. But imagine this sscenario: Say a long stretch of road like Harold Road. There are not too many homes and children, and people walking all over the road most of the time. The speed limit there for cars is 45 mph. Now suppose that road soon becomes densely populated with many children and people all over the place like some of the other over the hill areas, and government does not reduce the speed limit. It would be unGodly to drive that road at 45 mph in those new circumstances. You know God would not want you to be irresponsible and endanger others lives as well your own. So I would disobey man's laws. I would drive at a lower rate of speed.

[In all fairness, there may be some of man's laws which are not in accordance with God's laws which we would usually obey. Our jury system might not be the best example of this, but when I sat on it about 15 years ago, it was a mess (God is a God of order), and just yesterday, someone said they are having juries who can't read. Though I have met persons who can't read who have much wisdom and common sense, I don't think they shoud serve on a jury. And I don't like serving because of the messy experience I have had, yet if I am called, to avoid going to jail I would serve, Iwould "obey"].

CG, you say that we are all lost. Here you have lost me. I fail to see how anyone who has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ (the Creator of the universe and all that is in it) as his/her Lord and Saviour can regard himself/herself as lost!

Ok CG, I never studied how man experimented with and improved flowers, but for sure they really messed up fruits and vegetables. I have heard so many anecdotes about how the hybrid varieties of friut and vegetables have little or no nutrients, that most of them are only fit for fibre. Over the years I have read so much that is negative of what herbalists, nutritionists and medical doctors said about hybrids, that I was under the impression that anytime man tried to improve on nature in anything he would fail miserably. I believe you must know of these experiments regarding hybrid fruits and vegetables.
I wish we could eat fruit and veg right from the vine, as God intended. I grow some myself that way and they are full of flavor. I have also grown hybrids - they are just fine too and they produce much more and are not subject (as much) to disease and pests. However, we are in an unenviable situation. There are millions and millions of people to feed, and less and less farmers to do the growing. Man must take things in hand. Hybrids, irradiation, hormones, fertilizer and cross breeding of DNA must be done or millions will starve. I can tell you, with out fear of contradiction, that you have been eating such foods for years. Without man's intervention in the food supply we would be in a shocking state! Let me give you one small example. I grow tomatoes. However, they are inflicted with nematodes. Nematodes (God's creation) are worms that get into the roots and kills the plant, often before it can produce a large crop. Man has produced a tomato plant that is resistant to nematodes. The result much, much more tomatoes.

Man has also intervened in diseases that inflict plants and us! Simple diseases that have killed millions have been brought under control, as God sends new ones. Take a disease that is common in the Bahamas - Diabetes. In the past millions died from this. Thanks to Dr. Banting, and others, millions now live with the disease - managed by pills or insulin.

Man has intervened in nature. Some time he fails and he has to start all over again. Sometimes he is successful. But man tries! He tries to improve his fellow man's lot. God, when all things are taken into account, does little. It is true that he gives life, but he cannot sustain it. That job is up to us, as partners in life.

When Delroy spoke of not accepting the righteousness of man, I was assuming he was referring to that part of Acts 5:29 which states, "We ought to obey God rather than men". I believe Christians are obligated to obey God's laws if man's laws conflict with God's.
I would accept this. The Christian must put the law of God ahead of man's law. The Buddhist, Hindu, etc, must do the same.

When There is nothing in the Bible that says "thou shall not speed", fine. But imagine this sscenario: Say a long stretch of road like Harold Road. There are not too many homes and children, and people walking all over the road most of the time. The speed limit there for cars is 45 mph. Now suppose that road soon becomes densely populated with many children and people all over the place like some of the other over the hill areas, and government does not reduce the speed limit. It would be unGodly to drive that road at 45 mph in those new circumstances. You know God would not want you to be irresponsible and endanger others lives as well your own. So I would disobey man's laws. I would drive at a lower rate of speed.
So would I! So would the atheist! Commons sense must prevail. In fact the law states that 45mph is the maximum. Lower speeds are demanded in times of heavy rain or in the example you made. Driving at a lower rate of speed, when circumstances demand it is not illegal.

[In all fairness, there may be some of man's laws which are not in accordance with God's laws which we would usually obey. Our jury system might not be the best example of this, but when I sat on it about 15 years ago, it was a mess (God is a God of order), and just yesterday, someone said they are having juries who can't read. Though I have met persons who can't read who have much wisdom and common sense, I don't think they shoud serve on a jury. And I don't like serving because of the messy experience I have had, yet if I am called, to avoid going to jail I would serve, Iwould "obey"].
Man is ready to admit that his laws, and the administration of those laws is not always 100%. They change as the circumstances require. Perhaps the Bahamian court system is a bit slow in this but the opportunity for change is there. Under God's law, change cannot happen.

CG, you say that we are all lost. Here you have lost me. I fail to see how anyone who has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ (the Creator of the universe and all that is in it) as his/her Lord and Saviour can regard himself/herself as lost!
When I said that we are all lost, I meant in our natural state, Yet, there are Christian groups that say one cannot be sure of salvation, they live in the hope of salvation. Still others say one can be sure. The same holds true in other religions, there is no agreement. Yet, the truth is - there is not one shred of credible evidence to suggest that there is an after-life to be saved to!

You maybe right in your belief that you are saved. It might also be true that you are not - it depends on whom you talk to! Some Christian might agree with you if you are one of their members, but others will not, as you do not follow their interpretations. Only death will provide the answer.

Now, this might seem strange to you but some of the great Christians I have talked to, as well as those of other faiths, do not assume, nor seek, salvation. Salvation is a small part in their belief system. What is important is service to God and mankind. If, when the last bell is sounded, they go to a heaven or a hell, they feel that this must be left to a just God and they will be satisfied with his decision. Their faith is in God, not Salvation.