i dont understand a few of the people..paticularly on this board!
why do you hate christians and christianity soo much!

you guys beleive it or not sound just as rabid as the nazis against the jews in the 30s and 40s....

now i know how jews world wide feel...and we shoudlnt bash them!
but in this room....there is this growing sentiment of hate from the non religious zealots, who want to think they are doing good by spreading hate!

if that werent bad enough...you have the ones who hide behind "knowing the word"..and then using that to pervert the truth!!

this is absolutely insane!
:gi:

Well I obviously cant speak for anyone on this board, but I find that such resentment tends to stem from a number of places or combinations thereof:

1. An inbred resentment of christianity because it is seen as an affront to personal freedom (commandments, submission to God, dying to self). Mind you these are not unique at all to Christianity (e.g. Islam which pushes personal submission heavily), But we dont like to accept that we arent the masters of our own fate, we dont exclusively control our destiny. To bow a knee is the one of the hardest things one can truly do, especially for north american westerners who are not used to relating to a "KING". People tend to resent "God" because deep down they suspect that to please God, you cant live to please self, while not accepting that to please God is to do self the best service.

2. A resentment brought on by the hypocrisy of Christians. Paul told the Hebrews that the world at that time blasphemed God because of their hypocrisy. The same holds true today. From the millions slaughtered by the Roman Catholic Church, to the centuries of carnal church infighting to the present day "mammon motivation" that fills the modern day church, there is alot to resent. Especially when these adulterous, lying, unloving "ambassadors of God" then try to tell you and I how to live, and insist that God is on their side.

3. A resentment bourne out of the misreprsentation of the faith and what faith really is. The words of Jesus are a blueprint of life, but His truth has become clouded with so much filth we call truth that people resent it. They resent it because they know its not legit.

4. Then some of us just like to feel we are able to know more than what is known. Like some of us argue for argue's sake, and some of us agrue because we are searching for answers and we hope we can anger and goad someone into giving it to us.

5. Then ofourse sometimes resentment comes as a response to very dogmatic Christians, since if the "unbeliever" doesnt know it all just because he or she is human, then ofcourse the "believer" doesnt know it all either.

No matter what its all about, I wish we could be less "resentful" in our approach to such discussions, but then we might not be true to our feelings in doing so.

Hate! That is an awfully strong word!

Is it possible that it is not hate but questioning? The Christian faith makes some very strong claims for itself. Has no one the right to question those claims? In the pass the answer was clearly no! No one may question the faith, it must be accepted. But we now live in a different time. Christianity once held a vice-like grip on the world. It is now, what it always really was, just one faith among many - open to question. Are we not allowed to criticize if we see the need? Must it be called hate?

Is it also possible that it is not hate but confusion? The Christian faith is very confusing - to an outsider. There are so many different beliefs within the one belief. There is much frustration in trying to figure it out.

Maybe it is not hate, but righteous anger! The Christian faith has been responsible for much suffering in the world. Many tribal peoples have been exterminated because they would not embrace the "true faith." Wars have been started for the "true faith." Millions have suffered and died by the hands of those who practice the "true faith." Is it any wonder that there is some righteous anger, and some question if this is indeed the true faith?

Could it be that just because someone has a different view that another person can't handle, it is branded hate?

Could it be because Christianity is so intolerant that it sees everything that questions it as hate?

Could it be that Christianity has believed that God works with them and them alone? Could it be that when they see God in other faiths they get hateful?

Could it be that some don't see things as "black and white" as the Christian does? Perhaps others see shades of gray.

Could it also be that there are folks out there, like me, who have seen other faiths up close and have seen the wonders of it all and are just trying to share those experiences with others?

No, I do not hate the Christian faith. If I did, I would do as the vast army of haters, world wide, have already done - avoid the faith at all costs.

I see Christianly as another string on the instrument that God plays for our enlightenment and growth. Perhaps the "string" is a bit bent, a bit rusty, a bit worn, as they all are, but it still plays a great tune - when we let Him play.

i have to say hate...
and with that it seems to be a blatant resentment for bahamian culture..
its like we hate where and what we come from!

christianity is a big part of our culture....
no?

its ok to vent anger...but when that clouds you from getting at the root cause os issues...then it is a problem!

i have to say hate...
and with that it seems to be a blatant resentment for bahamian culture..
its like we hate where and what we come from!
If you are talking about Black Bahamians they did not come from a Christian culture ordinally. They cannot hate where they came from because they don't know where that was! What might be hated is where we are going!

christianity is a big part of our culture....
no?
It has become so, by adoption.

its ok to vent anger...but when that clouds you from getting at the root cause os issues...then it is a problem!
Correct! So does a blind acceptance of a system of belief that one does not really understand or for that matter, fully believe anymore. I am not saying that is so in your case, but it holds true for many!

Let me see if I can add a few things. I fully understand where Y2K is coming from. I also feel certainly he does not include CG in this "hate" category. I believe CG is one of the wisest, most understanding and patient person on this forum.

But I do believe there is some strong hate for Christianity among 1 or 2 persons I see posting here, and I am completely baffled by it!!! I thought about it seriously last night. Its like sometimes when you mention an incident, no matter how moral and beautiful it is, they would search and dig something out of it to make morality or uprightness look absurd! Turn your gold into garbage, so to speak!

Some others of them also show gross disrespect for Bahamians. As Bahamians, we have our faults just like anyone else, but we also have many good points, and we have just as much sense and talents as anyone anywhere!

Yes, I have dealt with all kinds and conditions of people -- some who seem to regard my wisdom as foolishness, and vice versa, but this is the first time I have experienced persons showing outright hatred for things godly.

I am just inclined to do as Christ commanded his apostles to do: Shake the dust off my feet and leave their city.

And I honestly believe that the real reason for the hatred is that Light and Darkness cannot exist together, Amen

Let me see if I can add a few things. I fully understand where Y2K is coming from.
Strangely enough, so can I!

I also feel certainly he does not include CG in this "hate" category. I believe CG is one of the wisest, most understanding and patient person on this forum.
Again, I find myself thanking you for your kindness.

But I do believe there is some strong hate for Christianity among 1 or 2 persons I see posting here, and I am completely baffled by it!!! I thought about it seriously last night. Its like sometimes when you mention an incident, no matter how moral and beautiful it is, they would search and dig something out of it to make morality or uprightness look absurd! Turn your gold into garbage, so to speak!
This is going to be long, sorry about that but here we go! (I do not say that this applies to those 1 or 2 persons you mentioned, only they can say that.)

In my work as a teacher of religion I came across (and still do) many Christians who are discontent. They no longer believe the Bible. They don't know how to incorporate what they know with what they are supposed to believe. They look out at the world and see all the suffering and ask, "how can a loving God allow this?"

Sometimes people are hurt but they faith. They are made to feel small, or even dirty, because they do not fit in. They see no compassion being offered to them. They may believe God to be a God of love, but many of his followers are not. They can't leave the faith because that is all they know and they think there is nothing else, so they attack it from the inside hoping it will change. In many cases they attend a Church that is not sympatric to their needs. The church fills them, not with peace, but with fear. If they leave the Church they feel disconnected, in some cases - lost. In many cases they feel that they are following a religion with a doctrine that is 2,000+ years old and it does not meet modern conditions or problems.

When such a person contacts me, and many have, I give them a copy of the Bible that has the words of Christ in red. In ask them to read only the red words, nothing else. I ask them to meditate on those words. I also give them copies of other Holy books. They soon see that there is a "thread" that runs through all these words. A thread that pulls them all together. They see, if they are wise enough, that books from opposite sides of the globe, written by different people at different times are all telling the same story - love, compassion and understanding. I also tell them that the Spiritual life is VAST! No one knows it all and many are mistaken in their understandings of their beliefs.

I also give them a copy of the Desierata http://www.fleurdelis.com/desiderata.htm Check it out for yourself. It never fails to move a wounded soul. It allows them to "be" even with all their faults and failures.

After some time, and it always takes time to undo damage, they usually can return to the faith with a new understand that allows them to throw off all the hard questions. Or, to put them on the "back burner" until their wisdom grows and not to feel guilty because they do not believe, at this time, but they now have a new impulsive to seek, or just to rest until the answer comes.

It allows them to feel compassion for those within their faith who hate and spread anger. It allows then to accept their faith, even with all its short comings because they have seen that all faiths fall short of the ideal, but it is all we have! They learn that, "I am not OK. You are not OK, but it is OK."

Religion must give you peace. If it does not give it, it has failed you, or you have failed it.

Some others of them also show gross disrespect for Bahamians. As Bahamians, we have our faults just like anyone else, but we also have many good points, and we have just as much sense and talents as anyone anywhere!
We have yet to learn to love ourselves. Once we can do that we will see that words are just words and why they are said.

Yes, I have dealt with all kinds and conditions of people -- some who seem to regard my wisdom as foolishness, and vice versa, but this is the first time I have experienced persons showing outright hatred for things godly.
I am just inclined to do as Christ commanded his apostles to do: Shake the dust off my feet and leave their city.
Don't do that! A person of faith is a witness! If the witness leaves, be he Christian or any other faith, whom will be there to witness?

And I honestly believe that the real reason for the hatred is that Light and Darkness cannot exist together, Amen
This may be true. But it is also true that light and light has a hard time getting on! If those of all faiths could get together, the light would be blinding! It would far out-shine any darkness!

i dont understand a few of the people..paticularly on this board!
why do you hate christians and christianity soo much!

you guys beleive it or not sound just as rabid as the nazis against the jews in the 30s and 40s....

now i know how jews world wide feel...and we shoudlnt bash them!
but in this room....there is this growing sentiment of hate from the non religious zealots, who want to think they are doing good by spreading hate!

if that werent bad enough...you have the ones who hide behind "knowing the word"..and then using that to pervert the truth!!

this is absolutely insane!
:gi:


There is a quick answer to this found in the book of John:
Jesus spoke and said:

John 15:18-25
18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 "Remember the word that I said to you, `A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. 22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 "He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 "If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25 "But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law,`THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'

Hope that helps.

Hate! That is an awfully strong word!

Is it possible that it is not hate but questioning? The Christian faith makes some very strong claims for itself. Has no one the right to question those claims? In the pass the answer was clearly no! No one may question the faith, it must be accepted. But we now live in a different time. Christianity once held a vice-like grip on the world. It is now, what it always really was, just one faith among many - open to question. Are we not allowed to criticize if we see the need? Must it be called hate?

Is it also possible that it is not hate but confusion? The Christian faith is very confusing - to an outsider. There are so many different beliefs within the one belief. There is much frustration in trying to figure it out.

Maybe it is not hate, but righteous anger! The Christian faith has been responsible for much suffering in the world. Many tribal peoples have been exterminated because they would not embrace the "true faith." Wars have been started for the "true faith." Millions have suffered and died by the hands of those who practice the "true faith." Is it any wonder that there is some righteous anger, and some question if this is indeed the true faith?

Could it be that just because someone has a different view that another person can't handle, it is branded hate?

Could it be because Christianity is so intolerant that it sees everything that questions it as hate?

Could it be that Christianity has believed that God works with them and them alone? Could it be that when they see God in other faiths they get hateful?

Could it be that some don't see things as "black and white" as the Christian does? Perhaps others see shades of gray.

Could it also be that there are folks out there, like me, who have seen other faiths up close and have seen the wonders of it all and are just trying to share those experiences with others?

No, I do not hate the Christian faith. If I did, I would do as the vast army of haters, world wide, have already done - avoid the faith at all costs.

I see Christianly as another string on the instrument that God plays for our enlightenment and growth. Perhaps the "string" is a bit bent, a bit rusty, a bit worn, as they all are, but it still plays a great tune - when we let Him play.


CG I could not have said it better I could only have tried. What you have said is how I feel.
I have the right to question my faith and other people faith.
I have an obligation to remind people who don't know or want to know the past. To say the things that they (the leaders) don't want you to know about. It is from our past that we learn.
I don't hate Christians. I dislike the inequality and hypocrisy which many stand on/for, as their faith.

i have to say hate...
and with that it seems to be a blatant resentment for bahamian culture..
its like we hate where and what we come from!

christianity is a big part of our culture....
no?

its ok to vent anger...but when that clouds you from getting at the root cause os issues...then it is a problem!

A yes the Bahamian culture.
You mean the culture where the Bahamian native Indian was converted into Christianity at the end of a gun and sold into slavery. To the point that they are an extinct people.
A culture where Slavery was legal.
Want more???
A culture where there is a different standard for human beings that are seen as different.

Strangely enough, so can I!


Again, I find myself thanking you for your kindness.


This is going to be long, sorry about that but here we go! (I do not say that this applies to those 1 or 2 persons you mentioned, only they can say that.)

In my work as a teacher of religion I came across (and still do) many Christians who are discontent. They no longer believe the Bible. They don't know how to incorporate what they know with what they are supposed to believe. They look out at the world and see all the suffering and ask, "how can a loving God allow this?"

Sometimes people are hurt but they faith. They are made to feel small, or even dirty, because they do not fit in. They see no compassion being offered to them. They may believe God to be a God of love, but many of his followers are not. They can't leave the faith because that is all they know and they think there is nothing else, so they attack it from the inside hoping it will change. In many cases they attend a Church that is not sympatric to their needs. The church fills them, not with peace, but with fear. If they leave the Church they feel disconnected, in some cases - lost. In many cases they feel that they are following a religion with a doctrine that is 2,000+ years old and it does not meet modern conditions or problems.

When such a person contacts me, and many have, I give them a copy of the Bible that has the words of Christ in red.
I will vouch for that. I have known CG since I was a kid. We did not share much till we meet on Bahamas Issues. However I already knew Christ's teachings were different from the rest of the Bible. I already knew Christ taught a different way of life. A way that is very different from the so called Christianity we see practiced everyday. I said to CG to bad there is not a book of just Christ's teachings, he gave me a book of "The Words In Red". Maybe some of you who point your finger at me and call me names and other things should ask CG for a book of "The Words In Red" Maybe then you would start to know true Christianity. You will understand learning about the Creator did not start with the Israelites and did not end with Christ. It is in each and every one of us. Just because I do not believe/live as you do does not make me any less or more than any of you. So point your finger all you want I am comfortable with who I am and learning my faith. (Yes still learning my faith)

In ask them to read only the red words, nothing else. I ask them to meditate on those words. I also give them copies of other Holy books. They soon see that there is a "thread" that runs through all these words. A thread that pulls them all together. They see, if they are wise enough, that books from opposite sides of the globe, written by different people at different times are all telling the same story - love, compassion and understanding. I also tell them that the Spiritual life is VAST! No one knows it all and many are mistaken in their understandings of their beliefs.

I also give them a copy of the Desierata http://www.fleurdelis.com/desiderata.htm Check it out for yourself. It never fails to move a wounded soul. It allows them to "be" even with all their faults and failures.

After some time, and it always takes time to undo damage, they usually can return to the faith with a new understand that allows them to throw off all the hard questions. Or, to put them on the "back burner" until their wisdom grows and not to feel guilty because they do not believe, at this time, but they now have a new impulsive to seek, or just to rest until the answer comes.

It allows them to feel compassion for those within their faith who hate and spread anger. It allows then to accept their faith, even with all its short comings because they have seen that all faiths fall short of the ideal, but it is all we have! They learn that, "I am not OK. You are not OK, but it is OK."

Religion must give you peace. If it does not give it, it has failed you, or you have failed it.


We have yet to learn to love ourselves. Once we can do that we will see that words are just words and why they are said.


Don't do that! A person of faith is a witness! If the witness leaves, be he Christian or any other faith, whom will be there to witness?


This may be true. But it is also true that light and light has a hard time getting on! If those of all faiths could get together, the light would be blinding! It would far out-shine any darkness!

Most of these so called Christians are so filled with fear and hate the only thing they look for is a way to do it better (hate that is). They very quickly forget that Christ said it is far greater to love you enemy. They are so afraid to think all human beings are just that human beings equal in all our difference. They believe what the Christian leaders tell them without question. They glorify them selves in thinking the Creator and Christ loves them because the hate others just because they are different. So to you who believe in human inequality and hate for those humans that are different. I do not see you as following the teachings of Christ and there for to me you are not Christian. But you have a right to your faith. You could be Jewdo Christian Paulist or what ever. But I have yet to find a teaching of Christ that says to hate someone who is/chooses to be different from you.

As a Buddhist CG is more Christian than many of you combined.
If you don't want me here just ask plan and simple. Have Delroy ban me simple as that.
But until then I will pinch you when you are wrong as I see it. I will remind you of the past. I will use your words and your Bible’s words to show you the other side of the coin. I will not let twisted interpretation go unchallenged no matter how traditional they are.
After all the world is flat isn’t it???
.

There is a quick answer to this found in the book of John:
Jesus spoke and said:

John 15:18-25
18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 "Remember the word that I said to you, `A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. 22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 "He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 "If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25 "But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law,`THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'

Hope that helps.


Yeah you all better read this and read it again. Then stand in my shoes and read it again. Read it thinking how so many people hate you for being different (choice or not). Read it and try to see how these people could hate you in the name/because of their Christianity.
Also remember
Blessed are those that are persecuted in my namesake. That not for just being Christians that are persecuted but for those persecuted by Christians as well. (Hating in the name of Christ)

If you are talking about Black Bahamians they did not come from a Christian culture ordinally. They cannot hate where they came from because they don't know where that was! What might be hated is where we are going!
that is not the point!


It has become so, by adoption.
that is still not the point...even though i accept your validation of your faith!


Correct! So does a blind acceptance of a system of belief that one does not really understand or for that matter, fully believe anymore. I am not saying that is so in your case, but it holds true for many!

there you go...
you feel so indefferent towards christianity..that the mere mention of the word causes you to make any blind accusation...against the christian faith..and the people involved!
no matter how you try to mask it...it seeps through..

Yeah you all better read this and read it again. Then stand in my shoes and read it again. Read it thinking how so many people hate you for being different (choice or not). Read it and try to see how these people could hate you in the name/because of their Christianity.
Also remember
Blessed are those that are persecuted in my namesake. That not for just being Christians that are persecuted but for those persecuted by Christians as well. (Hating in the name of Christ)


but i certainly dont hate you vic...
just wont let you boss me around though!
:sarcastic

Let me see if I can add a few things. I fully understand where Y2K is coming from. I also feel certainly he does not include CG in this "hate" category. I believe CG is one of the wisest, most understanding and patient person on this forum.

But I do believe there is some strong hate for Christianity among 1 or 2 persons I see posting here, and I am completely baffled by it!!! I thought about it seriously last night. Its like sometimes when you mention an incident, no matter how moral and beautiful it is, they would search and dig something out of it to make morality or uprightness look absurd! Turn your gold into garbage, so to speak!

Some others of them also show gross disrespect for Bahamians. As Bahamians, we have our faults just like anyone else, but we also have many good points, and we have just as much sense and talents as anyone anywhere!

Yes, I have dealt with all kinds and conditions of people -- some who seem to regard my wisdom as foolishness, and vice versa, but this is the first time I have experienced persons showing outright hatred for things godly.

I am just inclined to do as Christ commanded his apostles to do: Shake the dust off my feet and leave their city.

And I honestly believe that the real reason for the hatred is that Light and Darkness cannot exist together, Amen


thank you for amplifying my thoughts!
and sorry i got to your post last...
i read from the bottom up..or the last one first!
:rolleyes: