If Adam and Eve were not fictional, then they truly were perfect(and immortal?)

after sinning, came death and disease.

they lived long because the diseases that came about could harldy affect their almost perfect gene pool.

mutations have been going on ever since and some of are genes are being damaged which make us susceptable/immune to disease.

small changes in our dna/genes can cause us to grow an extra finger or be born malformed - perhaps even allergic to semen.

if you can't reproduce because of a genetic mutation, then you simply can't reproduce - that would be a good thing right? Birth defects on the other hand are not usually passed on to offspring because it is not hard coded into the dna of the organism.

diabetes or a diabetic gene is not beneficial to my knowledge, it is probably the result of a mutation, you just generally live long enough to pass it on to your offspring. I already said most mutations are not beneficial - they just are not always lethal and end up being passed on to future generations.

what difference the color of the soil adam was created from makes if mutations could bring about variations within the human species? Are you proposing that there is no such thing as variation within a species and we should all still be negroid?

(Vicky you need to study the bible)

Can I get a show of hands - how many people think ridding the world of religion - all religions will make the world a better place?

- equality for all
- wars
- rich/poor

all will continue with or without religion, it is our nature, and you will always get pissed when someone breaks most of the 10 commandments - especially thou shalt not kill/commit adultery/bear false witness.

they won't be sins anymore, but they won't go away either - or do you think science will fix our nature to prevent us from wanting a God and from being unfair to others.

and to think you guys are shocked that there is no morality in our code of ethics - I thought you would be glad! Soon there will be no religion in the bahamas, and then the haitians will take over.

lol

i pity my old age, and our future.

If Adam and Eve were not fictional, then they truly were perfect(and immortal?)

after sinning, came death and disease.

they lived long because the diseases that came about could harldy affect their almost perfect gene pool.
How did these diseases come about?

small changes in our dna/genes can cause us to grow an extra finger or be born malformed - perhaps even allergic to semen.You're saying "perhaps"...so then there's a potential for this to happen? I'd be very interested in your being able to provide a case (concerning allergy) where "small changes in our dna/genes" can cause us to have an allergic reaction to semen. Until then, that is just a theory.

if you can't reproduce because of a genetic mutation, then you simply can't reproduce - that would be a good thing right? Birth defects on the other hand are not usually passed on to offspring because it is not hard coded into the dna of the organism.
If you're saying here that birth defects aren't hereditary because they aren't "hard-coded" into the DNA of an organism, I'm going to disagree. This is not so.

diabetes or a diabetic gene is not beneficial to my knowledge, it is probably the result of a mutation, you just generally live long enough to pass it on to your offspring. I already said most mutations are not beneficial - they just are not always lethal and end up being passed on to future generations. True, kind of like a dog's dewclaw or the tail and gill slits you had as a human foetus. HERE (http://www.skepticreport.com/creationism/vestigial.htm) I guess your loss of gill slits and tail weren't beneficial then?

what difference the color of the soil adam was created from makes if mutations could bring about variations within the human species? Are you proposing that there is no such thing as variation within a species and we should all still be negroid? "If there's no such thing as evolution", yes - that's exactly what I'm proposing. We should ALL look EXACTLY like either ADAM or EVE if there is no such thing as evolution. We would all be a reproduction...exact copy.

Can I get a show of hands - how many people think ridding the world of religion - all religions will make the world a better place? If religion keeps being used as an opiate and miseducator of the masses, I'd just as soon do without it. My choice is that religion is not for me. I cannot decide for other people, I cannot in verity answer that question based on "making the world a better place." I answer based on what I am custodian of and to.


all will continue with or without religion, it is our nature, and you will always get pissed when someone breaks most of the 10 commandments - especially thou shalt not kill/commit adultery/bear false witness

they won't be sins anymore, but they won't go away either - or do you think science will fix our nature to prevent us from wanting a God and from being unfair to others.
Science, or rather the pursuit of understanding of our environment, offer us today a clearer view of our common selves throughout the ages so that the same mistakes may or may not be made.

The choice is STILL left up to you as to whether or not the earth is flat. And yet the truth that the earth isn't flat is also offered. To choose the myth/lore over the proven truth will bring you ridicule, if you are not prepared to accept ridicule for the beliefs you've accepted/hold you are really saying to the world. 'I only pretended to make a choice. I, in truth have not.'

and to think you guys are shocked that there is no morality in our code of ethics - I thought you would be glad! Soon there will be no religion in the bahamas, and then the haitians will take over.

lol

i pity my old age, and our future.

I was not shocked, because my research led me to prognosticate what would eventually happen. I know where these supposed morals and ethics came from. I know that the civilizations that came up with these morals and ethics were not consonant conducive places for my living and my lifestyle. And as far as I was concerned, I knew that sooner or later the bottom would drop out. As I once told a busom brother of mine, "I give Nassau FIVE years and Freeport FIFTEEN." I said that in 2002 (the last time I touched Bahamian soil).
But I'll tell you who was shocked, those who CAN NOT come to terms with The Bahamas NOT being Chaldean, Israeli or Roman and most importantly, non-Christian but herald it and romanticize it as being so.

I'll tell what else is apparent, that fact that most professed Christians won't recognized evolution (adaptation) but have an adapted manual by which they go by. Why have you not spoken against your "mutant" (your word not mine) Bible? Why haven't you made the same argument concerning that? Remember, according to you - in the process of mutation, content is LOST only.

If Adam and Eve were not fictional, then they truly were perfect(and immortal?)

after sinning, came death and disease.

they lived long because the diseases that came about could harldy affect their almost perfect gene pool.

mutations have been going on ever since and some of are genes are being damaged which make us susceptable/immune to disease.

small changes in our dna/genes can cause us to grow an extra finger or be born malformed - perhaps even allergic to semen.

if you can't reproduce because of a genetic mutation, then you simply can't reproduce - that would be a good thing right? Birth defects on the other hand are not usually passed on to offspring because it is not hard coded into the dna of the organism.

diabetes or a diabetic gene is not beneficial to my knowledge, it is probably the result of a mutation, you just generally live long enough to pass it on to your offspring. I already said most mutations are not beneficial - they just are not always lethal and end up being passed on to future generations.

what difference the color of the soil adam was created from makes if mutations could bring about variations within the human species? Are you proposing that there is no such thing as variation within a species and we should all still be negroid?
you are forgetting nothing exist with out the Creator creating it. Nothing! All the diseases birth defects all created by the Creator/God
(Vicky you need to study the bible)
Why should I??????????????
I have/am studding the history of the Bible. Why should someone study the Bible when they don't know its origins/history. Should someone/I study the Bible just because everyone else believes in it. Why not study "The Wizard of Oz". Remember blind faith is worse than ignorance. Believing the world is flat just because everyone else does will never make it flat.
Can I get a show of hands - how many people think ridding the world of religion - all religions will make the world a better place?

- equality for all Only Christians are equal
- wars Many were started in the name of Christianity.
- rich/poor Christians have murdered and lied to get rich. Many still lie to this day. Just have a look at some of our richest religious leaders and the poor people that keep giving them money

all will continue with or without religion, it is our nature, and you will always get pissed when someone breaks most of the 10 commandments - especially thou shalt not killTo bad Christians did not think of this when they cried "Burn you left handed witch burn" commit adultery Christ was conceived in adultery /bear false witness. You mean like Christian leaders standing in Rawson sq. calling homosexuals pedophiles.

they won't be sins anymore, but they won't go away either - or do you think science will fix our nature to prevent us from wanting a God and from being unfair to others. Christians can't fix it they believe they are the only equal humans on earth

and to think you guys are shocked that there is no morality in our code of ethics - I thought you would be glad! Soon there will be no religion in the Bahamas, and then the haitians will take over. I was not shocked the PLP is full of humans. Humans just as human as you and me. Oh and don't forget most of the politicians are liewyers

lol

i pity my old age, and our future.

Christ was conceived in adultery
WHOA!!!!! The fallout from this one ga be BEEG! :screw:

I do not recall Mary agreeing to become inpregnated by the Holy Ghost. If this is the case, not only was Christ conceived through adultery and fornication, Mary was sexually assaulted by the Christian God!

The assault on evolution has taken on most urgent quest within the fundamentalist christians community, because more people are starting to realize the myths in the bible are not to be taken literally. Maybe the END is near. The end of superstitious beliefs and the controlling power hungry religious fanatics.

Vicky and Truthseeker, I would not venture into the discussion of the adultery comment, however, I find it shocking to hear someone make a remark that they know would incite anger. That should not be practiced in a forum where people gather to share their views and thoughts, it is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Moving on, I put these questions forward to those who believe in evolution and/or disbelieve in a creator.......

1) Do you believe in reincarnation?

2) Do you believe we have a spirit?

3) If our physical bodies evolved from molecules and particles, - which maybe can even be proven -, where did our spirit come from?

It will be interesting to hear your responses....

[QUOTE=Rizzo]
[Vicky and Truthseeker, I would not venture into
the discussion of the adultery comment, however, I find it shocking to hear someone make a remark that they know would incite anger. That should not be practiced in a forum where people gather to share their views and thoughts, it is irrelevant to the topic at hand.][/

I believe these are legitimate propositions by Vicky and me. They may be controversial but they ought to be discussed. We should shy away from subjects you deem offensive to you religion because you say so. Yeah, I know this is not the original topic for discussion but this argument is fruitless when your opponent is not using reason or rational to present his position, only biblical b.s. and I am not referring to Bachelor of Science!

[Moving on, I put these questions forward to those who believe in evolution and/or disbelieve in a creator.......

1) Do you believe in reincarnation?

2) Do you believe we have a spirit?]
A BIG FAT NO[3) If[COLOR=MediumTurquoise] our physical bodies evolved from molecules and particles, - which maybe can even be proven -, where did our spirit come from?]

See previous answer!

1) Do you believe in reincarnation?
As a Buddhist I should but my mind is not made up. This is because there is no proof of an afterlife of any kind. But as you say the afterlife is a belief. :rip:

2) Do you believe we have a spirit?
There are those that would say we do not have a spirit, we are a spirit - that is, at this time, carrying around a human body. Or as it is put in some religions, "we are but a small spirit carrying around a large cadaver."

3) If our physical bodies evolved from molecules and particles, - which maybe can even be proven -, where did our spirit come from?
There is the question! But why does it have to come from anywhere? If one believes in reincarnation it was always around! Spirits are not "made" any more than God was made. He always was - perhaps we are too! The Christian says we "came into the world." Many other religions say we "came out of the world." Again, this is a matter of belief. None of the answers, be they by me or others, to these questions can be supported by facts.

Vicky and Truthseeker, I would not venture into the discussion of the adultery comment, however, I find it shocking to hear someone make a remark that they know would incite anger. That should not be practiced in a forum where people gather to share their views and thoughts, it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Let me make sure I understand this. The ignorance that is spewed here on this forum by professed Christians under the guise of truth is not shocking? Professed Christians taking The Bible literally is
not shocking. Professed ADULTS purposefully attempting to use the Bible as a biology book to prove the non-existance of adaptation of any kind is not shocking...but when a point is offered using the Bible within a literal context to show that it shouldn't be used literally all the time IS shocking?

Sounds like when it comes to "shocking", some people need to check the "bias of their circuits." It's not like the Roman Catholic Church were pleasantly giddy when they were told that the Earth wasn't flat and that heliocentrism was at best Cracker Jack Box Astronomy.
But, with all due respect, on behalf of all people who prefer truth to uninformed opinion, I apologize for "inciting anger." Please forgive us, but we were led to (the now blatantly apparent) delusion that Christians value truth above all.

Moving on, I put these questions forward to those who believe in evolution and/or disbelieve in a creator...
1) Do you believe in reincarnation? That depends on what you mean when you say re-incarnation. You and I may not share the same parameter as to what may or may not constitute as reincarnation.

2) Do you believe we have a spirit? Yes. I believe we have many spirits. The spirit of levity. The spirit of joy. Alcohol is a spirit. Water is an elemental spirit. Again, perhaps you'd get a better answer if you ask a more specific question.

3) If our physical bodies evolved from molecules and particles, - which maybe can even be proven -, where did our spirit come from? There is no "IF" about it. This is the equivalent of saying, "If the Sun revolved around the Earth - which maybe can even be proven."
We have known for quite some time now that molecules and particles can be subdivided to quarks and leptons which evolve (bsmbahamas would have you believe they "mutate") into organisms.
But concerning your spirit question, I do believe that certain spirits exist within the parameters of nature. That which is called "supernatural" is that which we have not (within the means of nature) the full understanding to explain.
Personally, I believe we are all of the same "spirit" material, where we differ is that we each have a personalized filter/conduit to those spirits: Our respective brains.
Where did our spirits come from, I do not know exactly. This is like asking me where my memory came from? My belief (based on my perception) is that they ultimately came from YAHWEH. Plunging the depths of sub-atomic research can not harm my uncertainties.

Vicky and Truthseeker, I would not venture into the discussion of the adultery comment, however, I find it shocking to hear someone make a remark that they know would incite anger. That should not be practiced in a forum where people gather to share their views and thoughts, it is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
But it is a discussion why would someone get angery. Under the very laws in the Bible Mary was pregnant with out being married. There is no reasion to be angey the Bibles states this clearly.
Moving on, I put these questions forward to those who believe in evolution and/or disbelieve in a creator.......

1) Do you believe in reincarnation?

2) Do you believe we have a spirit?

3) If our physical bodies evolved from molecules and particles, - which maybe can even be proven -, where did our spirit come from?

It will be interesting to hear your responses....

1) Do you believe in reincarnation?

nope...but who knows, from the dreams one has ...well it is always possible ..


2) Do you believe we have a spirit?

yes .. somewhat ..


3) If our physical bodies evolved from molecules and particles, - which maybe can even be proven -, where did our spirit come from?

Our Spirit grew as we grew .. our human bodies can think as well as learn, and we have memories, that are stored in certain areas of our brains ..this can be labled as a spirit of a soughts. Afterall, everything we think about, in our minds (spirit) is from memories. Our body controls our mind also, and our mind controls our body.

Oh I did not answer your questions
1) Do you believe in reincarnation?
I think you need to define reincarnation. I do believe that that there is some sort of rebirth but what form it takes I am not sure. I believe death is a form of rebirth.
2) Do you believe we have a spirit?
I believe everything has a spirit the ameba the roach the tree.
3) If our physical bodies evolved from molecules and particles, - which maybe can even be proven -, where did our spirit come from? Where everything comes from The Creator.

It will be interesting to hear your responses....

Let me make sure I understand this. The ignorance that is spewed here on this forum by professed Christians under the guise of truth is not shocking? Professed Christians taking The Bible literally is
not shocking. Professed ADULTS purposefully attempting to use the Bible as a biology book to prove the non-existance of adaptation of any kind is not shocking...but when a point is offered using the Bible within a literal context to show that it shouldn't be used literally all the time IS shocking?



No Parietal,.... what is shocking is how some people who claim to understand the bible but do not believe it, can confuse something such as the birth of CHrist, to the extent that they pervert it.
They interpret it as something physical, when it was more of a spiritual conception. No intercourse was involved with the conception of Mary, She was conceived by the Holy Spirit, hence ruling out the adultery statement.
No physical being had sexual intercourse to impregnate Mary, it is said that the Holy Spirit entered her; just as most people believe that spirits enter into them, just as the holy spirit, the spirit of allah, or whatever else they believe. It was a miracle that happened , resulting in the conception of Jesus. That is the belief of anyone who believes in the birth of Christ, not just "Christians", but thse who believe in Christ. If we are here,on Earth, breathing oxygen that we cannot see, being held by gravity that we cannot see, is it not possible for a woman to be enlightened by a spirit which we cannot see?

What amazes me is how people can make such remarks because they do not believe in the same faith. I would not criticize Parietal because of his belief, or Vicky, or anyone else, because their faith is important to them. Slandering their faith in no way makes mine better, or makes me more intelligent than them. It does nothing positive at all. What do I stand to gain by telling a Rasta that Selassie is dead and they are stupid for believing that he is alive, or that the messiah could ever come as a black king? I gain nothing, but in turn I have formed a person who now believes that my faith is one full of hatred against them and that I am an evil person.

If we all stand to gain knowledge about religion/spirituality, then we should state what we believe, what support we have of our belief, and leave it to people to decide for themselves what is right or wrong for them. Not go around denouncing other people's faith or belief. And that is what most people in this forum do. Some don't believe in a God/Creator at all...so they have no problem targeting Christians, but at the same time, they say nothing about the other religions that believe in a GOd/Creator. And those who aren't Christians, but believe in a Creator stand aside and be quiet while the atheists ridicule their beliefs as well.

Most people in this forum are full of themselves and their "intelligence" that they forget to be human beings. What they are out to prove I have no idea, but seem to be driven by a desire to prove others wrong, and themselves right. The main discussion in these forums are always the same....religion and sexuality.....is there nothing else important in your lives? How about talking about something new in these forums, how about talking about what good things are happening in your lives, what makes you appreciate life, how your spirituality has made you a better person, regardless of what faith you have. That is what we need to be discussing. All I hear in these forums are nothing but hate, and we all have different faiths! that's the thing about it....most of the people in here have different faiths, but each one thinks that they are justified in it. But my question is why do we need justification in our beliefs? it is a belief, and nothing needs to be proven. What would happen if one day the world ends and we discover that we were wrong about the entire thing? What if what we all believe was incorrect? This is what we all should think about, in an attempt to ensure that our lives are in order. We should try to live good lives with each other, regardless of faith/gender/race....it doesn't matter! we are all here on earth until we die, and I want to enjoy my life while I am here and spread loveand encouragement instead of hate/discouragement, and I encourage all others to do the same.

... The main discussion in these forums are always the same....religion and sexuality.....is there nothing else important in your lives? How about talking about something new in these forums, how about talking about what good things are happening in your lives, what makes you appreciate life, how your spirituality has made you a better person, regardless of what faith you have. That is what we need to be discussing....
That is a good idea! Why dont you start a thread like that? I think it would be very informative - and far more positive. I would contribute my 5 cents!

Let us have some positive stuff for a change!