parietal_03
11-24-04, - 03:45 AM
http://bahamasissues.com/showthread.php?t=746&page=10&pp=15
How could you explain something that doesn't exist? When Jesus spoke about Eunuchs He was speaking about Eunuchs and noting more. If Transgender was a real condition and Jesus wanted to explain it, all He would have done was say that there are some people born half man, half woman. Simple! Now who wouldn't understand that ain't trying to or don't mean to no matter what time they living in.
Depends on what you mean by "exist." Explain a spirit. They exist. Explain their existence in simple terms. Explain transparency without looking it up in a dictionary.
I agree Christ "was speaking about eunuchs and nothing more." But Christ also knew that whatever He said, that there were bound to be some people who would read more into it or less into it than he intended. So He used a concept of the times, something the people He spoke to understood, The Eunuchus.
So in order to understand what was being said we should first and foremost know who and what role the Eunuch occupied circa Yeshua Bar Yoseph.
Now, what happens to a boy's/man's body if you cut off his penis and/or testicles? How does his body react hormonally and what are the resulting sequences as a result of homeostasis and hormonal imbalance? Research the word "castrati"
The castrati are the order of eunuch which the modern world is more familiar with.
Matthew 19:12 cites Yeshua Bar Yoseph as listing all the different types of eunuch.
"12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
Eunuchus
1387, from Gk. eunoukhos "castrated man," originally "guard of the bedchamber or harem," from euno-, comb. form of eune "bed" + -okhos, from stem of ekhein "to have, hold." The Gk. and L. forms of the word were used to transl. Heb. saris, which sometimes meant merely "palace official," in Septuagint and Vulgate, probably without an intended comment on the qualities of bureaucrats.
"Eunuches is he þat is i-gilded, and suche were somtyme i-made wardeynes of ladyes in Egipt." [Travisa, 1387]
Also guess what most if all Greco-Roman royal cup-bearers were or resembled?
http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/terentius-eunuchus.htm
A lot can be learned and understood from the play, "Evnvchvs" because of what it tell us about the social status and role of eunuchs in third century BCE Roman and Greek society. We learn that eunuch slaves are an extreme luxury item, usually owned only by royalty, although eunuchs themselves have very low social status. Eunuchs could be quite effeminate.
("Quite effeminate" males = ANDROGYNY.)
They were given free access to women's private space, because, though friendly toward women, they were thought to be impotent with them and trustworthy as their guardians.
(CONJECTURE NOT FACT: They were thought to be impotent with women and so they went on to be thought of as impotent with men - a belief that pervades today in certain circles I.e. "Gay" men are always weak, 'limp-wristed' and anti-masculine.)
Therefore, to impersonate a eunuch was a great crime.
It was easy enough to impersonate a eunuch, though, by having the right kind of look and being introduced as a eunuch. (Well imagine that, some people impersonated eunuchs - This calls into question all those who weren't born eunuchs, weren't made eunuchs by other men, or those who in verity have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom)
When a eunuch proved untrustworthy by having sex with a woman, (imagine that as well, some eunuchs have sex with women) he was reclassified as a "male" [vir]. Otherwise a eunuch is never referred to as a male, but rather only as a non-gender-specific "human being" [homo].
(And if you re-read that last sentence you should, if you're sharp, understand where the confusion sets in about what a eunuch is and what a eunuch was thought of as:'men who were denied their masculinity socially to be deemed non-gender specific', but also you may grasp why the term "homosexual" is a term used, not only ignorantly but also out of context. "Male" is translated as "vir" so the correct term for a male who enjoys congress with other males is "virsexual/virosexual" and not the "non-gender-specific" homosexual).
Also please notice, that in Matt 19:12 Yeshua never says, "he" or "she" in reference to eunuchs but to the audience. So Yeshua is re-affirming the non-gender-specifications of the eunuch. That is what a eunuch is, a non-gender specific human being.
Notice also from Thraso's reaction to Chaerea in the guise of a eunuch (from the play Evnvchvs) that, although usually less enticing than a boy, a eunuch was considered a possible sex object for a man, especially after the man had been drinking. (And here we see that eunuchs also had sex with males)
We cannot say men are born castrated (or with their penises cut off) anymore than we can say women are just men born with their penises missing. Some eunuchs are born with or acquire more male qualities than female and some are born with or acquire more female qualities than male.
But if you notice, in Matt 19:12 Yeshua never says, "he" or "she." This is indication of another one of those social viruses picked up by people today. Eunuchs are NON-GENDER-SPECIFIC.
When a child is born either a penis is there, a penis is not there or a female's organ (or organs bearing semblances to both thereof) are present.
If you're born and the latter be your case and/or you bear some semblance to both sexes, this makes you an androgene/hermaphrodite/eunuch. You cannot be born a castrati but, indeed you can be born a eunuch and not all eunuchs are automatically "gay" or male or female for that matter.
Those who enjoy saying that "eunuch" does not in anyway mean androgynous, are incorrect and those that spurn androgenes because they are both male and female (not one or the other) and in some cases have both male and female desires (and not one or the other) are in my opinion based on these findings quite ignorant of the subject matter.
How could you explain something that doesn't exist? When Jesus spoke about Eunuchs He was speaking about Eunuchs and noting more. If Transgender was a real condition and Jesus wanted to explain it, all He would have done was say that there are some people born half man, half woman. Simple! Now who wouldn't understand that ain't trying to or don't mean to no matter what time they living in.
Depends on what you mean by "exist." Explain a spirit. They exist. Explain their existence in simple terms. Explain transparency without looking it up in a dictionary.
I agree Christ "was speaking about eunuchs and nothing more." But Christ also knew that whatever He said, that there were bound to be some people who would read more into it or less into it than he intended. So He used a concept of the times, something the people He spoke to understood, The Eunuchus.
So in order to understand what was being said we should first and foremost know who and what role the Eunuch occupied circa Yeshua Bar Yoseph.
Now, what happens to a boy's/man's body if you cut off his penis and/or testicles? How does his body react hormonally and what are the resulting sequences as a result of homeostasis and hormonal imbalance? Research the word "castrati"
The castrati are the order of eunuch which the modern world is more familiar with.
Matthew 19:12 cites Yeshua Bar Yoseph as listing all the different types of eunuch.
"12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
Eunuchus
1387, from Gk. eunoukhos "castrated man," originally "guard of the bedchamber or harem," from euno-, comb. form of eune "bed" + -okhos, from stem of ekhein "to have, hold." The Gk. and L. forms of the word were used to transl. Heb. saris, which sometimes meant merely "palace official," in Septuagint and Vulgate, probably without an intended comment on the qualities of bureaucrats.
"Eunuches is he þat is i-gilded, and suche were somtyme i-made wardeynes of ladyes in Egipt." [Travisa, 1387]
Also guess what most if all Greco-Roman royal cup-bearers were or resembled?
http://www.well.com/user/aquarius/terentius-eunuchus.htm
A lot can be learned and understood from the play, "Evnvchvs" because of what it tell us about the social status and role of eunuchs in third century BCE Roman and Greek society. We learn that eunuch slaves are an extreme luxury item, usually owned only by royalty, although eunuchs themselves have very low social status. Eunuchs could be quite effeminate.
("Quite effeminate" males = ANDROGYNY.)
They were given free access to women's private space, because, though friendly toward women, they were thought to be impotent with them and trustworthy as their guardians.
(CONJECTURE NOT FACT: They were thought to be impotent with women and so they went on to be thought of as impotent with men - a belief that pervades today in certain circles I.e. "Gay" men are always weak, 'limp-wristed' and anti-masculine.)
Therefore, to impersonate a eunuch was a great crime.
It was easy enough to impersonate a eunuch, though, by having the right kind of look and being introduced as a eunuch. (Well imagine that, some people impersonated eunuchs - This calls into question all those who weren't born eunuchs, weren't made eunuchs by other men, or those who in verity have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom)
When a eunuch proved untrustworthy by having sex with a woman, (imagine that as well, some eunuchs have sex with women) he was reclassified as a "male" [vir]. Otherwise a eunuch is never referred to as a male, but rather only as a non-gender-specific "human being" [homo].
(And if you re-read that last sentence you should, if you're sharp, understand where the confusion sets in about what a eunuch is and what a eunuch was thought of as:'men who were denied their masculinity socially to be deemed non-gender specific', but also you may grasp why the term "homosexual" is a term used, not only ignorantly but also out of context. "Male" is translated as "vir" so the correct term for a male who enjoys congress with other males is "virsexual/virosexual" and not the "non-gender-specific" homosexual).
Also please notice, that in Matt 19:12 Yeshua never says, "he" or "she" in reference to eunuchs but to the audience. So Yeshua is re-affirming the non-gender-specifications of the eunuch. That is what a eunuch is, a non-gender specific human being.
Notice also from Thraso's reaction to Chaerea in the guise of a eunuch (from the play Evnvchvs) that, although usually less enticing than a boy, a eunuch was considered a possible sex object for a man, especially after the man had been drinking. (And here we see that eunuchs also had sex with males)
We cannot say men are born castrated (or with their penises cut off) anymore than we can say women are just men born with their penises missing. Some eunuchs are born with or acquire more male qualities than female and some are born with or acquire more female qualities than male.
But if you notice, in Matt 19:12 Yeshua never says, "he" or "she." This is indication of another one of those social viruses picked up by people today. Eunuchs are NON-GENDER-SPECIFIC.
When a child is born either a penis is there, a penis is not there or a female's organ (or organs bearing semblances to both thereof) are present.
If you're born and the latter be your case and/or you bear some semblance to both sexes, this makes you an androgene/hermaphrodite/eunuch. You cannot be born a castrati but, indeed you can be born a eunuch and not all eunuchs are automatically "gay" or male or female for that matter.
Those who enjoy saying that "eunuch" does not in anyway mean androgynous, are incorrect and those that spurn androgenes because they are both male and female (not one or the other) and in some cases have both male and female desires (and not one or the other) are in my opinion based on these findings quite ignorant of the subject matter.