exactly my point.

I say if the homosexuals want to sleep with one another, so be it.
If the prostitutes want to sell their body, so be it.
If you feel the need to steal, so be it.

I won't force you to stop, unless you physically are harming me or a loved one *without* our consent.

The laws of the land are there to be followed. Religion is supposed to coincide with the law, but is not subject to the law, nor the law subject to religion.
Glad to hear that.
Th e follower of religion are supposed to obey the law as long as it does not violate their religion.
I can live with that can you?
Christians are told by *their* religion to obey the law and to preach the gospel, not to force anyone to do anything.

we all have our own will, but we are all subjected to the law as well.
and law can be changed and must be changed if they are in conflit with humanity. They must be equal for all humans living under them.
If prostitution is not legal, I will get in trouble. If gay marriage is illegal the particapants will get in trouble. etc.
Laws are made to be changed and change to be fair to all who live under them .
My point is we christians are told to show others the way according to our religion, but we can't take away a persons free will.
I know some people who with their free will want to get married but they can't
The law does not provide for them. A law based of faith.
However, everyones free will is subjected to the law of our nation.
The law must be changed so all people are equal.
My duty as a christian is to teach the word of God to all - homosexuals, prostitutes, murderers, government officials, etc - but I cannot stop you from exercising free will.
Matthew 7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Your duty is to make sure you see clearly first. But you have not. You can't even answer the simple questions I asked you about your faith.
The extremist try to prevent free will and usually with physical force.Extremist that would insist on people living to the laws of thier faith. Even if others don't follow their faith. I will not let you back out that easy you are one of those extremist. You have not uesd force but you have used your faith to try and prevent people from being able to share their lives together in a legel union. The bible forbids this line of action, we are instructed to teach and pray - and let God deal with whoever is out of line when the time comes.
Now can you live with this? Christ says to treat everyone equaly. Will you stand for people to be equal even for those that don't want to follow your teachings or faith and they don't care if you pray for them or not.
We are all responsible for our actions, christians don't control people, the law does, oftentimes contrary to our christian beleifs.
Laws need to be changed so all people are equal.
Please name a law that is contray to Christian Belief. Law where you lock a man up for stealing food. Did not Christ teach is a man steals your coat give him your shirt.
Want more???
I don't support the cartoons I posted, just wanted feedback.

I have no problem with murderers/homosexuals/prostitutes/etc, all are sinners according to God's word, and we are instructed to teach them and love them not persecute them, Then come stand with me under the rainbow flag stand so all can be equal teach while you stand but stand with us. and hopefully they will correct their ways in time.
Or may be you can see us for what we are ALL CHILDREN OF THE CREATOR.
and I don't bash religion either, I beleive everyone is trying to do their best to make the world a better place, some only care about their own world, not the world in general.
Equality for all will not hurt anyone.
I short, do what you want. But you are accountable to yourself first, the law second, and to God ultimately. We will continue to guide you toward the word of God, but never should force you to do anything - you have freewill, Then stand for equality and then guide all you want.

forcing anyone to conform to God's word is not a christian value and violates free will. We can influence the government - but we can't force them. But you should not use your faith to influance government except to make all equal/

segragation is wrong.
predjudice is wrong.
murder is wrong.
etc.

we can't stop it, but we can teach against it, it is our duty.

:lafs:
[/QUOTE]

Hi Vicky, :heartbeat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
The follower of religion are supposed to obey the law as long as it does not violate their religion.

I can live with that can you?
Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
Christians are told by *their* religion to obey the law and to preach the gospel, not to force anyone to do anything.

we all have our own will, but we are all subjected to the law as well.

and law can be changed and must be changed if they are in conflit with humanity. They must be equal for all humans living under them.


agreed. but in a democratic government, law is decided by the persons elected by the majority - most of which in the Bahamas are extremists.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
My point is we christians are told to show others the way according to our religion, but we can't take away a persons free will.

I know some people who with their free will want to get married but they can't The law does not provide for them. A law based of faith.


True. But many of the lawmakers are guided by their faith/religion which is also supported by the people who voted them into power. Can't get around this unless you become the majority, and vote in those that support your beleifs.

We beleive in the bible and that homosexuality is wrong, and don't want homosexual marriages in our country. You beleive that everyone should be treated equal and propose that same sex marriages with make homosexuals equal. Quite simply the majority does not accept your beliefs, and that is what determines the law in a democratic country, not necessarily fair, just favored by the majority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
However, everyones free will is subjected to the law of our nation.

The law must be changed so all people are equal.


many problems will arrise if we all are equal.
our faith, christians, doesn't say every one is equal, is says to treat others as you would like to be treated, not make every one equal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky

Matthew 7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Your duty is to make sure you see clearly first. But you have not. You can't even answer the simple questions I asked you about your faith.

which question vicky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
The extremist try to prevent free will and usually with physical force.

Extremist that would insist on people living to the laws of thier faith. Even if others don't follow their faith. I will not let you back out that easy you are one of those extremist. You have not uesd force but you have used your faith to try and prevent people from being able to share their lives together in a legel union.


no vicky. I said homosexuality is wrong and therefore homosexual marriages are wrong as well. I never said you can't live together or physically love one another. I said homosexuality is wrong and permitting marriage is wrong as well. Not that our government should not allow it, just that it is wrong. The lawmakers must listen to both sides and decide what to do on their own. When the number of people wanting same sex marriages increases, the law will change, as the law is not bound by religion, nor religion bound by law.
they don't have to listen to us or the GBTL but they do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
The bible forbids this line of action, we are instructed to teach and pray - and let God deal with whoever is out of line when the time comes.

Now can you live with this? Christ says to treat everyone equaly.
Will you stand for people to be equal even for those that don't want to follow your teachings or faith and they don't care if you pray for them or not.


yes. I already do. but homosexual lifestyle/marriages will always be wrong,
I am unable to change that fact/belief. You don't feel it is wrong in any way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
We are all responsible for our actions, christians don't control people, the law does, oftentimes contrary to our christian beleifs.


Laws need to be changed so all people are equal.
Please name a law that is contray to Christian Belief. Law where you lock a man up for stealing food. Did not Christ teach is a man steals your coat give him your shirt.
Want more???


the bible teaches not to steal.
it also teaches not to kill.
it also teaches not to commit adultery.

the law of the state does not depend on the laws of the bible, I said that earlier, they are determined by the lawmakers, who listen to the people who put them in power - if everyone agreed that theives should not be locked up, it will stop - just like how the death penalty is almost non-existent.

The laws of man change all the time. The word of God does not.

whatever the people beleive, religion or not determines the laws of the state.
if we were to poll the entire 'non-christian' bahamian population right now, do you think there would be enough same sex marriage supporters to make the lawmakers change our laws?



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
I don't support the cartoons I posted, just wanted feedback.

I have no problem with murderers/homosexuals/prostitutes/etc, all are sinners according to God's word, and we are instructed to teach them and love them not persecute them,

Then come stand with me under the rainbow flag stand so all can be equal teach while you stand but stand with us.


my religion does support homosexuality or equality for all,
otherwise you would have a lot of christians in your organization


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
and hopefully they will correct their ways in time.

Or may be you can see us for what we are ALL CHILDREN OF THE CREATOR.


we see you as children of the creator, born by heterosexual parents too, it is the GBLT that refuses to follow the creators word, some even deny that the creator exists - beleive in Jesus' teachings but reject the rest of God's word.
:dgi:


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
and I don't bash religion either, I beleive everyone is trying to do their best to make the world a better place, some only care about their own world, not the world in general.


Equality for all will not hurt anyone.


there will never be equality for all, that is an illusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
I short, do what you want. But you are accountable to yourself first, the law second, and to God ultimately. We will continue to guide you toward the word of God, but never should force you to do anything - you have freewill,

Then stand for equality and then guide all you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
forcing anyone to conform to God's word is not a christian value and violates free will. We can influence the government - but we can't force them.

But you should not use your faith to influance government except to make all equal


my faith demands that I influence every human to follow my faith.


Mark 16
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 24
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 9
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.


--------------

Luke 20
27 Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection;

Do you beleive Jesus' teachings but deny his resurrection?

1 John 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Do you beleive that Jesus who was God, was born of a virgin, became flesh, was crucified, died and is now alive?

Do the members of the rainbow alliance beleive this?

Then I cannot join with your group, because equality for all cannot help the world, only lead to more corruption. My only duty is to save souls, not help them follow the lust of their flesh into eternal damnation.

Homosexuality is allowed by freewill, but not supported by most of the non-christian population and will always be a minority - especially if persons are born that way.


I am not against you or any other sinner, just not for you either.
The fight against all sinful acts is to keep others from thinking it
is ok to da as they please. It not directed just against homosexuals.
:heartbeat

Do you live by all the laws in the Bible???
Who choses wihich laws you will follow and which ones you won't??



Hi Bsmbahamas if you use the following to reply you can seperate your responce from the origonal post make is easyer to read and reply 2.
[/QUOTE at the end of the sections you want to reply to. You have to add ] to the end of this
to the end of this
to the eand of this
At the new begining of the person you are replying to
You have to add ] to the eand of these
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
The follower of religion are supposed to obey the law as long as it does not violate their religion.

I can live with that can you?
Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
Christians are told by *their* religion to obey the law and to preach the gospel, not to force anyone to do anything.

we all have our own will, but we are all subjected to the law as well.

and law can be changed and must be changed if they are in conflit with humanity. They must be equal for all humans living under them.


agreed. but in a democratic government, law is decided by the persons elected by the majority - most of which in the Bahamas are extremists.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
My point is we christians are told to show others the way according to our religion, but we can't take away a persons free will.

I know some people who with their free will want to get married but they can't The law does not provide for them. A law based of faith.


True. But many of the lawmakers are guided by their faith/religion which is also supported by the people who voted them into power. Can't get around this unless you become the majority, and vote in those that support your beleifs.

We beleive in the bible and that homosexuality is wrong, and don't want homosexual marriages in our country. You beleive that everyone should be treated equal and propose that same sex marriages with make homosexuals equal. Quite simply the majority does not accept your beliefs, and that is what determines the law in a democratic country, not necessarily fair, just favored by the majority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
However, everyones free will is subjected to the law of our nation.

The law must be changed so all people are equal.


many problems will arrise if we all are equal.
our faith, christians, doesn't say every one is equal, is says to treat others as you would like to be treated, not make every one equal.

So what you are saying is:
If the law said you could not marry the person you love its ok?
That right Christ says treat other as you your self want to be treated. This does not mean you can influance other to treat people differently as well.
You can't say I want to marry who I want and then tell some one else(or support a lawthat says) they can't marry who they want.
If you feel not all should be equal then the black should have stayed as slaves right.

Oh just heard this on the Food channal.
Massattusest was the first state to abolish slavery. Now Massattusest wants all people to be equal under the law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky

Matthew 7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Your duty is to make sure you see clearly first. But you have not. You can't even answer the simple questions I asked you about your faith.

which question vicky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
The extremist try to prevent free will and usually with physical force.

Extremist that would insist on people living to the laws of thier faith. Even if others don't follow their faith. I will not let you back out that easy you are one of those extremist. You have not uesd force but you have used your faith to try and prevent people from being able to share their lives together in a legel union.



no vicky. I said homosexuality is wrong and therefore homosexual marriages are wrong as well. I never said you can't live together or physically love one another. I said homosexuality is wrong and permitting marriage is wrong as well. Not that our government should not allow it, just that it is wrong. The lawmakers must listen to both sides and decide what to do on their own. When the number of people wanting same sex marriages increases, the law will change, as the law is not bound by religion, nor religion bound by law.
they don't have to listen to us or the GBTL but they do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
The bible forbids this line of action, we are instructed to teach and pray - and let God deal with whoever is out of line when the time comes.

Now can you live with this? Christ says to treat everyone equaly.
Will you stand for people to be equal even for those that don't want to follow your teachings or faith and they don't care if you pray for them or not.


yes. I already do. but homosexual lifestyle/marriages will always be wrong,
I am unable to change that fact/belief. You don't feel it is wrong in any way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
We are all responsible for our actions, christians don't control people, the law does, oftentimes contrary to our christian beleifs.


Laws need to be changed so all people are equal.
Please name a law that is contray to Christian Belief. Law where you lock a man up for stealing food. Did not Christ teach is a man steals your coat give him your shirt.
Want more???


the bible teaches not to steal.
it also teaches not to kill.
it also teaches not to commit adultery.

the law of the state does not depend on the laws of the bible, I said that earlier, they are determined by the lawmakers, who listen to the people who put them in power - if everyone agreed that theives should not be locked up, it will stop - just like how the death penalty is almost non-existent.

The laws of man change all the time. The word of God does not.

whatever the people beleive, religion or not determines the laws of the state.
if we were to poll the entire 'non-christian' bahamian population right now, do you think there would be enough same sex marriage supporters to make the lawmakers change our laws?



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
I don't support the cartoons I posted, just wanted feedback.

I have no problem with murderers/homosexuals/prostitutes/etc, all are sinners according to God's word, and we are instructed to teach them and love them not persecute them,

Then come stand with me under the rainbow flag stand so all can be equal teach while you stand but stand with us.


my religion does support homosexuality or equality for all,
otherwise you would have a lot of christians in your organization


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
and hopefully they will correct their ways in time.

Or may be you can see us for what we are ALL CHILDREN OF THE CREATOR.


we see you as children of the creator, born by heterosexual parents too, it is the GBLT that refuses to follow the creators word, some even deny that the creator exists - beleive in Jesus' teachings but reject the rest of God's word.
:dgi:


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
and I don't bash religion either, I beleive everyone is trying to do their best to make the world a better place, some only care about their own world, not the world in general.


Equality for all will not hurt anyone.


there will never be equality for all, that is an illusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
I short, do what you want. But you are accountable to yourself first, the law second, and to God ultimately. We will continue to guide you toward the word of God, but never should force you to do anything - you have freewill,

Then stand for equality and then guide all you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmbahamas
forcing anyone to conform to God's word is not a christian value and violates free will. We can influence the government - but we can't force them.

But you should not use your faith to influance government except to make all equal


my faith demands that I influence every human to follow my faith.


Mark 16
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 24
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 9
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.


--------------

Luke 20
27 Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection;

Do you beleive Jesus' teachings but deny his resurrection?

1 John 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Do you beleive that Jesus who was God, was born of a virgin, became flesh, was crucified, died and is now alive?

Do the members of the rainbow alliance beleive this?

Then I cannot join with your group, because equality for all cannot help the world, only lead to more corruption. My only duty is to save souls, not help them follow the lust of their flesh into eternal damnation.

Homosexuality is allowed by freewill, but not supported by most of the non-christian population and will always be a minority - especially if persons are born that way.


I am not against you or any other sinner, just not for you either.
The fight against all sinful acts is to keep others from thinking it
is ok to da as they please. It not directed just against homosexuals.
:heartbeat
[/QUOTE]

HOLD UP!!! let me get this straight...according to bsm, christianity does not teach that all people are equal? Is there any other christians that follow this line of reasoning?

This is going to be another one of those “quote for quote” arguments that never gets anywhere.

The reality is that morality seems to have somehow become connected exclusively to the Christian faith, especially in the Western world. For all of you following this religion which continues to effectively HERD mankind into a homogeneous way of thinking, you are simply stuck in a situation where you can’t see the forest for the trees.

Many of you are following what was beaten into your forefathers and mindlessly passed on from generation to generation. You know why many pastors in local churches can be heard a mile away, ranting and raving? They have simply adopted the manner in which the plantation owners used to speak to their slaves: Listen to me or ELSE! Such sheep – but oh yeah, you are following your shepherd.

I have hit the breaking point with all of this quoting and professing. Religion in today’s time is becoming more and more EXTREME on ALL sides. On one side we have the terrorists who will kill you for not following their faith, while on the other we have people from a faith that states THOU SHALT NOT KILL, when they willingly send out troops to do just that – KILL.

I guess there is an unwritten clause in the Ten Commandments stating: Thou shalt not kill, but it’s okay if you just support or send others to do it. – Hypocrites…

Only God can judge me. An all-knowing, all powerful entity would know exactly what I am thinking and why I think that way, so why do you little humans judge each other so? Why do you turn away from and against your fellow brothers and sisters for following their own existence? You hold up BOOKS that can be easily twisted to suit the needs of this physical realm and use these BOOKS to create barriers against each other. Hypocrites…

The truth lies within YOU, not in what someone else tells you. For a man to follow another man is like the blind leading the blind. NO ordained minister can convince me that he (or she) has any more chance of attaining an enlightened afterlife state than I do. They may be able to convince many “blind” followers that they do, but when it comes down to it, I control my fate in this life and the next. I sincerely believe that I do not have the answers for anyone else but myself - I follow my own road. If more people were to focus on living their OWN lives, instead of trying to get others to think the way they do, this world would be such a better place. Be careful of how you elevate these men and women who run these things you call churches. Man is a creature whose existence relies upon the weaknesses of those around him. He/She cannot elevate themselves to a higher level without convincing and reminding others of their fallibilities.

So quote the words of others all you want, if that is how you choose to live, but do NOT attempt to claim that you are any better, higher or more “saved” than anyone else because you happen to follow a few outdated traditions or CLAIM to have dedicated your life to some deity. If you focus on yourself and the deeds that you do, you will find that many of you who point fingers and judge others are nothing but one thing – HYPOCRITES…

HOLD UP!!! let me get this straight...according to bsm, christianity does not teach that all people are equal? Is there any other christians that follow this line of reasoning?

I doubt many Christians think about it but the letters of Paul make it clear that one becomes a Son of God by faith and the Spirit. That means that those who believe and those that do not are not equal - one is a Son, one is not, this makes them unequal. BMS is right, we are all the creation of God but only the believers are the Sons of God, or so Paul tells us.

At one time in history this was taken very seriously, so seriously that the unbeliever was dust under the feet of believers and could be dealt with as one pleased. Happily, things have changed for the better. Few Christians believe that anymore. Christians, now, are often in the forefront in the belief of the brotherhood of man. :cheers:

I doubt many Christians think about it but the letters of Paul make it clear that one becomes a Son of God by faith and the Spirit. That means that those who believe and those that do not are not equal - one is a Son, one is not, this makes them unequal. BMS is right, we are all the creation of God but only the believers are the Sons of God, or so Paul tells us.

At one time in history this was taken very seriously, so seriously that the unbeliever was dust under the feet of believers and could be dealt with as one pleased. Happily, things have changed for the better. Few Christians believe that anymore. Christians, now, are often in the forefront in the belief of the brotherhood of man. :cheers:


well said CG, christianity is a lot like learning a new skill, you make a lot of mistakes at first, but as understand the concept, you get better at the skill.

almost all religions have a murderous extremist past. but don't shoot the messengers they are only delivering the message.

persons that follow 'righteous' religion always try to better themselves and the world they live in. man by nature is flawed, not perfect, and hence we do wrong things - often terrible things to our fellowman, but our goal is still to be better people and to unite everyone through love and fairness.

the problem is that we are allowed to act as we please based on our perception of what is right.

but perception is not always fact, just our interpretation of the facts based on our individual biases and conditioning.

it can be argued that what makes us human is exactly what causes us to be unable to agree an anything.

we determine how we behave by using our imagination, conscience, self-awareness and independant will.

if you harm an animal, instinct will make it react by fight or flight. but humans can choose not to run away or choose not to fight!

many animals are not self aware - if you put a frog in a pot of water and heat it, the frog will stay in the water and die, they are not aware that they are in the pot of water and can just leave. I know of a story of a duck that kept indoors in a dog house for quite some time, later it was put outside and would quack loudly at the other ducks flying by, one day it drown in a makeshift pool that was built for it, a shallow pool that it could stand up in - apparently suicide - but the duck never realized that it could just fly away.

feed a bunch of dogs all at once, and watch them fight. separate their bowls and give them the same amount, and watch them run back and forth tryig to eat both bowls of food, they do not have a conscience that would indicate that the other dog need to eat as well and try to eat all of the food.

put a dog in a cage with a see-thru door and shut the door, but don't lock it, many dogs will perceive the door as closed and not imagine that they can pass thru - they just sit and stare, and will run out if you pull it open.

these four uniquely human abilities allow us to look at facts and perceive different version of 'our own truth', but that does not change the facts, just what we perceive to be fact.

I beleive in the bible's teachings, but catholics, seven day adventists, mormons, etc all beleive the bible - but it is their perceptions that make them different.

CG can attest to this as well, as their are different forms of buddism as well.

some people interpret the laws of the state differently, but that does not exempt them from the law.

question: is a person born with one arm equal to a person born with 2 arms?
of course not, they can never clap with one hand - but we still must treat them equally.

a christian is not equal because we are different inside from non-christians, not in a physical way - but in a spiritual way - which cannot be perceived with human eyes. we are not equal because we our governed by a new set of laws.

how many religions beleive that murder is ok?
how man atheists beleive that murder is ok?
how many non-christians believe that murder is ok?

why do so many humans feel that murder is not ok, are we born this way?
animals kill each other all the time, and don't appear to have any remorse about it - what makes us different - conscience?

:lafs:

This is going to be another one of those “quote for quote” arguments that never gets anywhere.

The reality is that morality seems to have somehow become connected exclusively to the Christian faith, especially in the Western world. For all of you following this religion which continues to effectively HERD mankind into a homogeneous way of thinking, you are simply stuck in a situation where you can’t see the forest for the trees.

Many of you are following what was beaten into your forefathers and mindlessly passed on from generation to generation. You know why many pastors in local churches can be heard a mile away, ranting and raving? They have simply adopted the manner in which the plantation owners used to speak to their slaves: Listen to me or ELSE! Such sheep – but oh yeah, you are following your shepherd.

I have hit the breaking point with all of this quoting and professing. Religion in today’s time is becoming more and more EXTREME on ALL sides. On one side we have the terrorists who will kill you for not following their faith, while on the other we have people from a faith that states THOU SHALT NOT KILL, when they willingly send out troops to do just that – KILL.

I guess there is an unwritten clause in the Ten Commandments stating: Thou shalt not kill, but it’s okay if you just support or send others to do it. – Hypocrites…

Only God can judge me. An all-knowing, all powerful entity would know exactly what I am thinking and why I think that way, so why do you little humans judge each other so? Why do you turn away from and against your fellow brothers and sisters for following their own existence? You hold up BOOKS that can be easily twisted to suit the needs of this physical realm and use these BOOKS to create barriers against each other. Hypocrites…

The truth lies within YOU, not in what someone else tells you. For a man to follow another man is like the blind leading the blind. NO ordained minister can convince me that he (or she) has any more chance of attaining an enlightened afterlife state than I do. They may be able to convince many “blind” followers that they do, but when it comes down to it, I control my fate in this life and the next. I sincerely believe that I do not have the answers for anyone else but myself - I follow my own road. If more people were to focus on living their OWN lives, instead of trying to get others to think the way they do, this world would be such a better place. Be careful of how you elevate these men and women who run these things you call churches. Man is a creature whose existence relies upon the weaknesses of those around him. He/She cannot elevate themselves to a higher level without convincing and reminding others of their fallibilities.

So quote the words of others all you want, if that is how you choose to live, but do NOT attempt to claim that you are any better, higher or more “saved” than anyone else because you happen to follow a few outdated traditions or CLAIM to have dedicated your life to some deity. If you focus on yourself and the deeds that you do, you will find that many of you who point fingers and judge others are nothing but one thing – HYPOCRITES…

I humbly take a knee bow my head(because you can't see expression over the net) and say thank you.

if you can't stand the heat of debate, get out of the kitchen.

debate
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument.

debate
3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.

our intention is to persuade the other party to join our side of the debate.

I wonder if Yorrick has any ... oh nevermind

:dancer:

well said CG, christianity is a lot like learning a new skill, you make a lot of mistakes at first, but as understand the concept, you get better at the skill.

almost all religions have a murderous extremist past. but don't shoot the messengers they are only delivering the message.

persons that follow 'righteous' religion always try to better themselves and the world they live in. man by nature is flawed, not perfect, and hence we do wrong things - often terrible things to our fellowman, but our goal is still to be better people and to unite everyone through love and fairness.

the problem is that we are allowed to act as we please based on our perception of what is right.

but perception is not always fact, just our interpretation of the facts based on our individual biases and conditioning.

it can be argued that what makes us human is exactly what causes us to be unable to agree an anything.

we determine how we behave by using our imagination, conscience, self-awareness and independant will.

if you harm an animal, instinct will make it react by fight or flight. but humans can choose not to run away or choose not to fight!

many animals are not self aware - Now I see your problem you think humans/you/your type of Christian are the top in everything. Animals may not be humanly self aware but they are self-aware. Just because it’s not your version of awareness does not make it less or none existent. if you put a frog in a pot of water and heat it, the frog will stay in the water and die, Just because a frog does not have the nerve endings in its skin that a human has does not make it self-aware. Put you in a swamp you would die. Oh and have you ever thought that the frog wanted to get out but could not see away out. It is a scientific theory and proven to the best of our ability that frogs don't see very well unless there is movement. A very extraordinary sight targeting system which allows the frog to use its tongue to feed it self. HHHm lets see you try that 1. Not less but different. they are not aware that they are in the pot of water and can just leave. Maybe so or is it they don't know what a pot is and you do. Human arrogance at it best.I know of a story of a duck that kept indoors in a dog house for quite some time, later it was put outside and would quack loudly at the other ducks flying by, one day it drown in a makeshift pool that was built for it, a shallow pool that it could stand up in - apparently suicide - but the duck never realized that it could just fly away.

feed a bunch of dogs all at once, and watch them fight. separate their bowls and give them the same amount, and watch them run back and forth tryig to eat both bowls of food, they do not have a conscience that would indicate that the other dog need to eat as well and try to eat all of the food.

put a dog in a cage with a see-thru door and shut the door, but don't lock it, many dogs will perceive the door as closed and not imagine that they can pass thru - they just sit and stare, and will run out if you pull it open.

these four uniquely human abilities allow us to look at facts and perceive different version of 'our own truth', but that does not change the facts, just what we perceive to be fact.
So what you perceive as fact is very different from the animals. Your arrogance makes you think yours is better. Don't see animals killing just because they can and to the point of extinction even its on kind. (And in the name of religion) don't see animals making and using atom bombs.
Don't see animals polluting the earth. HHHmmm may be they have a better awareness than we do after all.


I beleive in the bible's teachings, but catholics, seven day adventists, mormons, etc all beleive the bible - but it is their perceptions that make them different.

CG can attest to this as well, as their are different forms of buddism as well.

some people interpret the laws of the state differently, but that does not exempt them from the law.

question: is a person born with one arm equal to a person born with 2 arms?
of course not, they can never clap with one hand - but we still must treat them equally. Your human arrogance amazes me. The person born with one arm is equal to a person born with 2 they are just different. I went to school with a kid that was born with out a hand, as you and I know it. Little immovable stumps for fingers and a palm. He was different and the other kids made sure he knew it to. Yet he was a star soccer player. I am sure he would have wiped you all over the field. Different yes but not less equal.

a christian is not equal because we are different inside from non-christians, not in a physical way - but in a spiritual way - which cannot be perceived with human eyes. we are not equal because we our governed by a new set of laws.

how many religions beleive that murder is ok?
how man atheists beleive that murder is ok?
how many non-christians believe that murder is ok?

why do so many humans feel that murder is not ok, are we born this way?
animals kill each other all the time,and the murder count in the Bahamas is what now??? and don't appear to have any remorse about it animals kill to eat and to keep from being eaten. - what makes us different Humans kill because they can. You know what a sport hunter is yes. They kill for the count and the joy of killing. Oh and we kill to eat as well.
I know I can brag about the sea life I have killed in my time, but there is one differance I eat or sold what I killed. I would not kill it with out the intent to eat or sell to my self and family I will not waste life. I will avoid killing a wasp in the house to the point of even being stungto get it out side. - conscience?
:lafs:

Now I see your problem you think humans/you/your type of Christian are the top in everything. Animals may not be humanly self aware but they are self-aware. Just because it’s not your version of awareness does not make it less or none existent. Just because a frog does not have the nerve endings in its skin that a human has does not make it self-aware. Put you in a swamp you would die. Oh and have you ever thought that the frog wanted to get out but could not see away out. It is a scientific theory and proven to the best of our ability that frogs don't see very well unless there is movement. A very extraordinary sight targeting system which allows the frog to use its tongue to feed it self. HHHm lets see you try that 1. Not less but different. Maybe so or is it they don't know what a pot is and you do. Human arrogance at it best.
So what you perceive as fact is very different from the animals. Your arrogance makes you think yours is better. Don't see animals killing just because they can and to the point of extinction even its on kind. (And in the name of religion) don't see animals making and using atom bombs.
Don't see animals polluting the earth. HHHmmm may be they have a better awareness than we do after all.


Your human arrogance amazes me. The person born with one arm is equal to a person born with 2 they are just different. I went to school with a kid that was born with out a hand, as you and I know it. Little immovable stumps for fingers and a palm. He was different and the other kids made sure he knew it to. Yet he was a star soccer player. I am sure he would have wiped you all over the field. Different yes but not less equal.

and the murder count in the Bahamas is what now??? animals kill to eat and to keep from being eaten. Humans kill because they can. You know what a sport hunter is yes. They kill for the count and the joy of killing. Oh and we kill to eat as well.
I know I can brag about the sea life I have killed in my time, but there is one differance I eat or sold what I killed. I would not kill it with out the intent to eat or sell to my self and family I will not waste life. I will avoid killing a wasp in the house to the point of even being stungto get it out side.


and someone born severly retarded? They are equal too right?

equal by the rights they are entitled to, not equal to every other human.

equal in spirit and worthy of salvation as well.

I'd like to see a country ran by a 100 mentally retarded people. They would probably all die in month or two.

equal in what they deserve Vicky, not born equal.

If I was born with an inability to produce sperm, would you say I am born equal when I can't even produce a child?

i rest my case.

:cheers:

and someone born severly retarded? They are equal too right?

equal by the rights they are entitled to, not equal to every other human.

equal in spirit and worthy of salvation as well.

I'd like to see a country ran by a 100 mentally retarded people. They would probably all die in month or two.

equal in what they deserve Vicky, not born equal.

If I was born with an inability to produce sperm, would you say I am born equal when I can't even produce a child?
You are equal even if you can't reproduce you maybe different in others eyes but the Creator sees into your heart not your body.(thats in the Old Testament to) It is the Creator's intent for you to be different but not less human there for equal. Is there not a verse that states the Creator knows every hair on your head. There for the Creator knows you can't produce children and love's you equaly as ones that can.
i rest my case.

:cheers:

if you can't stand the heat of debate, get out of the kitchen.

debate
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument.

debate
3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.

our intention is to persuade the other party to join our side of the debate.

I wonder if Yorrick has any ... oh nevermind

:dancer:


1 "R" in Yorick. Get it right.

And c'mon...lets see you bring your argument without quoting someone else's words, or something else that you have read.

Stop regurgitating and use your own brain. Dont let others think for you.

my faith demands that I influence every human to follow my faith.

I'd like to see a country ran by a 100 mentally retarded people. They would probably all die in month or two.

Does your faith demand pessimism too? I'm curious, is "mentally retarded" the VERY phrase your God gave you to describe said people, or were you under the delusion that they are, as you say, 'retarded' because they don't have YOUR faculties and/or the headspace of your compadres?
And forgive me, but my almost 25 years of observation of human life and nature on this planet has led me to come to a present continuous resolution: we are all finite in knowledge, wisdom and in understanding.
As far as I am concerned, my good sir, YAHWEH has extended His providence in a form and fashion we finite humans can understand and grasp, I am QUITE sure HE can do it in a form and fashion that '100 fatally stupid people' can grasp and understand.

I don't consider myself among the elite, when it comes to having the strongest of constitutions, but that is by far, the most repulsive thing I have ever read on this site to date.

But just to clarify, Yeshua Bar Yoseph made it clear that the least shall be the greatest, the first shall be last and the last first.
Also I should suggest that MAYBE "Human equality" ('Balance' according to the teachings and dogma of Themis and Maat) varies from other concepts of equality.

Does your faith demand pessimism too? I'm curious, is "mentally retarded" the VERY phrase your God gave you to describe said people, or were you under the delusion that they are, as you say, 'retarded' because they don't have YOUR faculties and/or the headspace of your compadres?
And forgive me, but my almost 25 years of observation of human life and nature on this planet has led me to come to a present continuous resolution: we are all finite in knowledge, wisdom and in understanding.
As far as I am concerned, my good sir, YAHWEH has extended His providence in a form and fashion we finite humans can understand and grasp, I am QUITE sure HE can do it in a form and fashion that '100 fatally stupid people' can grasp and understand.

I don't consider myself among the elite, when it comes to having the strongest of constitutions, but that is by far, the most repulsive thing I have ever read on this site to date.

But just to clarify, Yeshua Bar Yoseph made it clear that the least shall be the greatest, the first shall be last and the last first.
Also I should suggest that MAYBE "Human equality" ('Balance' according to the teachings and dogma of Themis and Maat) varies from other concepts of equality.


bsmbahamas what happened not comment cat got you keyboard.