vicky i was just having a discussion with a friend a few weeks ago who did not believe in God or any religion and she also told me this also. but like i said if you had known me back two years ago when i was going through that who am i, why was i born, is there a god, etc phase i would have responded to your post and disected it but i am past that now. also i did read your post and it did make me think, but i had to keep it a certain point becuase to me religion is like a big open ocean and your faith is like a little raft and when i was going through that phase its like i keep trying different rafts to see which one i thought was sturdy enough to take me to shore. i am tired of looking for rafts and at this point in my life i believe i have found my raft and have so much faith in it to tell all passers by "no thanks i'll stay on this one."
did that make sense.

oh since i am typing this can i ask you what religion are you vicky or what you believe in. also CG are you a scientolist or a evolutionist?

Matthew 22:37-40 (King James Version)
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Christ made Christianty so simple and christians have made so complycated. I am sure you can find this truth in 99% of all religions.

My Creed ( I have posted this before)
I believe in the unlimited power of the Creator who created everything NOTHING can exist without the intent of the Creator.
There is no way we can even dream that we understand the Creator. There are as many ways to understand the Creator as there are people.
All we can do is be who we are children of the Creator.
Creation is not over until the end, After all a new born is creation.
The Creator is called by many names and has sent messengers for us to hear.
All we can do is hope we understand.
There are 2 things I am sure of:
A closed mind can’t learn anything new.
There is a new discovery every moment.

Now if you have a lable for my religion cool.

... also CG are you a scientolist or a evolutionist?

A Buddhist.

In Luke it says Jesus is the son of Joseph and Adam is the Son of God the Creator.

If Christ is/was God the Creator why did Christ pray to God the Creator??? Why did not Christ just pray to him self. 2 separate entities. Christ is of the same thinking as God the Creator but not the same entity.

Well, if he is the son of God, therefore, he must have a father, which is God. Therefore he prayed to his father. He also said, no man cometh unto his father but by him.
In the begining was the word, which is Jesus, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Which explains how they are sperately together, two halves making a whole. Besides in the Begining, the Lord, Our God, spoke to himself and created man.

Well, if he is the son of God, therefore, he must have a father, which is God. Therefore he prayed to his father. He also said, no man cometh unto his father but by him. Please find a religion that does not make the claim their way is the only way.
In the begining was the word, which is Jesus, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Which explains how they are sperately together, two halves making a whole. Besides in the Begining, the Lord, Our God, spoke to himself and created man.

Please give me chapter and verse on these.
With your above thought you say Jesus and the Bible lies as to who is the Son of God the Creator.

Please find where Christ calls him self the Son of God the Creator.

My Creed ( I have posted this before)
I believe in the unlimited power of the Creator who created everything NOTHING can exist without the intent of the Creator.
There is no way we can even dream that we understand the Creator. There are as many ways to understand the Creator as there are people.
All we can do is be who we are children of the Creator.
Creation is not over until the end, After all a new born is creation.
The Creator is called by many names and has sent messengers for us to hear.
All we can do is hope we understand.
There are 2 things I am sure of:
A closed mind can’t learn anything new.
There is a new discovery every moment.
Now if you have a lable for my religion cool.


sorry i did not see when you posted this before. so you dont have a religion just a set of beliefs, i know many people like this, they do believe in a higher power but wont say that it is God, or ALA etc. which is cool cuase like i said when it comes to religion non of us really know.

well vicky you got me all warmed up to discuss religion, even though i dont like to. so i will began to respond as best i can to your questions to me. CG's questions also.

My thought is heaven is in each and everyone of us. My thought is no matter how different not just Christians will reach the Creator.


what i am about to say might not sink in if a person does not believe in God, heaven, hell, or the holy bible.

well vicky i can understand the logic that heaven is in all of us, i have actaully thought of that. but in my opinion to say this is to say that we dont need to go through God to get to heaven becuase we already have it in us, if this is true then we dont need to follow gods teachings in the bible. accournding to Gen 1:1 and Gen 14:19 heaven is one of two great divisions of the universe seperated as the heavens and the earth and accourding to Matt 5:12, Matt 6:20 and Eph 3:15 heaven is where all believers shall reside. also i believe heaven isnt in us becuase in the bible there are coutless accounts of people, including Jesus after his crusifiction, going up to hevean, in the end believers will be raptured up to heaven and God will come down from heaven, fire shall rain down from heaven etc.

i dont beleive just christians will reach the creator (God in my case whom i believe resides in heaven) to a certain extent. but i know one thing regardless of how grey the line is concerninng on who gets into heaven one thing is clear in the bible and that is GOD HATES SIN and Wickedness therefore it can not be in heaven with him, along with those that carry it. this is where i got the theory that to enter heaven one must believe in God, Jesus and be cleansed of their sins through the blood of jesus. John 3:16-19.

to me this is the jist of it all the petty things that i hear pentacostles, jehova witness, non demoantio, baptist. argue about is just silly.

On your question about Buddhist and who will go to heaven. I think I can answer your question by saying, Buddhism does not believe itself to be the only faith, the only path, the only way. All human kind shares a common essence, a common need to reach out to something greater - expressed in the different forms we call religion. In view of that we would say, sure, there is room for all in a heaven.

So then the next question must be, "What is the price of entrance?" Is it belief in a person, i.e. Christ? Or the manner in which one lived their life? It was almost always thought to be a place where the "good" go, those who lived unselfishly, hurt no one and helped his fellow man. But there are, and have been Religions that demand an allegiance to a savior in order to get in. As, I say - time will tell!


it is great to believe that there are many different ways to heaven, i wish there was becuase there are many wondeful people out there that dont deserve not being able to go but the bible says that the only way in is through repentance and believe in the lord jesus christ. (this statement will mean nothing if a person doest not believe in the bible)

your question "What is the price of entrance?" to enter heaven is free, just as Gods love is free. all he wants is for you to repent of your sins so that you may enter heaven. its like a if person just clean there expensive floor in their house and they say you can come in all you have to do is wipe your feet first. THATS IT

i do agree with you that christians look down on people that they belive wont get to heaven and i believe this is wrong. you said what about having to pledge your alegence to God or jesus? if you look at it most religion state you must pledge your alegence to something or someone. i think most christians take this allegence thing to the extreme, all god want is our love and repentance just becuase you got saved that doesnt mean you have to become a missonary in africa or go harrasing every person you meet with a gospel track. if you dont do this that doesnt mean that god loves you any less or that the person loves God any more. like Vicky say human have just over complicated this thing. but that just human nature you look at it we over complicate everything from shoes, cloths, to airplanes. WHY? i dont know

it is great to believe that there are many different ways to heaven, i wish there was becuase there are many wondeful people out there that dont deserve not being able to go but the bible says that the only way in is through repentance and believe in the lord jesus christ. (this statement will mean nothing if a person doest not believe in the bible)

This is true from the Christian stand point. But don't forget Christianity is a relatively new religion. There have been many before it and there will be many more after it. Almost all of them claim that theirs in the only way.

your question "What is the price of entrance?" to enter heaven is free, just as Gods love is free. all he wants is for you to repent of your sins so that you may enter heaven. its like a if person just clean there expensive floor in their house and they say you can come in all you have to do is wipe your feet first. THATS IT

Well, it is not exactly free. Depending on what form of Christianity one follows, there are a number of things one has to do. But this is true in all religions. There is always a "price."

hey CG, i am just trying to catch up on all the old post.

this is what i believe the skelton of christianity is, at least the baptist faith. but becuase people have brought in so much complication and confusion these points are lost. becuase of all of this confusin this is why i believe christions have a hard time converting people.

-God created the heavens and the earth.
-the earth was pure and free from sin, death, and all that other evil stuff until eve and the devil had their run in's.
-for what ever reason God allowed evil to come in
-from then on no human has been free from sin
-since god hates sin and lives in heaven those that have not repented of their sins can not enter in.
-to enter in all god wants is your love and your repentance. this doesnt mean you have to go to africa to be a missionary, let people see your changed life and allegence to god by living a clean life.
THATS IT. SIMPLE.

all that other stuff is just silly to nit pick over.

Please find a religion that does not make the claim their way is the only way.


whats wrong with claiming there is only one way to hevean. i think people get confused between the statement "there is only one way to heaven" and the statement " being baptist is the only way to heaven". i think thise is where most christians dig their own grave when witnessing to some one. i dont know if they are making a mistake or truely believe that bieng pentacostle or jehova whitness is the only way.

i beleve that there is only one way to hevean and that is through repentance, belief in God, and living a life that reflects this. regardless of what religion you are. this is where people confuse religion and this one main point the bible is trying to convey REPENTANCE. is thErE even religion in the bible i.e. baptist, pentacostle, charismatic?

hey CG, i am just trying to catch up on all the old post.
There is a lot to catch up on! :)

this is what i believe the skelton of christianity is, at least the baptist faith. but becuase people have brought in so much complication and confusion these points are lost. becuase of all of this confusin this is why i believe christions have a hard time converting people.
Others might accuse the Baptist of adding confusion. ;)

-God created the heavens and the earth.
This is a belief, with no fact attached.

-the earth was pure and free from sin, death, and all that other evil stuff until eve and the devil had their run in's.
Was the earth free of death? I doubt it. Nature requires death. Everything living, lives on the death of something else that is how life "works." Sin has nothing to do with it. The Adam and Eve story was a way to explain our sufferings in a time when people needed answers but had no way to find those answers. It was the "science" of the times and worked for the times.

-for what ever reason God allowed evil to come in
I doubt he had a choice. There is no life without death, no light without dark, no goodness without evil. Every thing has its opposite.

-from then on no human has been free from sin
-since god hates sin and lives in heaven those that have not repented of their sins can not enter in.
Perhaps not, but the Devil visited heaven - the Book of Job.

-to enter in all god wants is your love and your repentance. this doesnt mean you have to go to africa to be a missionary, let people see your changed life and allegence to god by living a clean life.
THATS IT. SIMPLE.
A changed life is good - as long as the change is for the good. We can all do with that kind of change from time to time. Almost all religions expect such a change.

all that other stuff is just silly to nit pick over.
Not really. They are part-and-parcel of a faith.

fact is when we die we will find out the truth ... or it will just end ..

fact is when we die we will find out the truth ...
Of course, that would be the ultimate way - but I can wait! :)

or it will just end ..

We will find out!

The thing is the human body is not wonderfully made. It is in fact rather poorly made. It is subject to a multitude of diseases. The human is the only creature that can die from bad teeth! Its reproduction system is badly designed. Until modern times many women died in child-birth. The human body is "designed" to last about 20-30 years. Most of the old bones that have been dug up show that life was short in the past.


it depends on how you look at it is the glass half full or half empty. i say wonderfully made becuase look at the human brain no other creature is as smart as us. in terms of dying most other animals die too, what you want us to live for a thousand years?


The refraction of light through rain drops! And it does not happen every time - only when the angle of the sun is right.


i look at it this way, science is Gods ingrediants. for there to be rainbows, human reproduction, oxegen etc. there had to be things to make these things possible so God created science. in the begining God created the heavens and the earth and all that was with in it.


Evolution?


i dont believe in evolution. PERIOD. there is nothing around me that i see evolving and i dont care how long they say it takes. all it is some things have a close resemblness to each other. have yall ever seen a person that looks kinda like you or seen some one that looks like a person you know. same can be said why cats look kinda like wild cats. why ist there some monkey out there that is half man half monkey? please.


The end result (in fact it is still going on) of plate tectonics.


when i was reffering to waterfall and mountains i was reffering to their buety, God created them using his ingrediant through science i.e plate tectonics


The water is clear due to the filtering action of the coral reefs. The sand is made up of rocks that have been eroded by the action of the sea. There is also a great amount to dead, eroded sea shells in the sand mix too. And that wonderful sea can turn on you in a storm and wash away everything that is not nailed down.


yet again science


Yes, all these things can be wonderful, or not - yet they stand with, or without a God to set them in motion. But as you say, it is a matter of faith.


amen brother all any of us can do is stay in our life raft i.e hold on to our faith. and hope it takes us where we want to go.