Sadly, it just might!
I'll give you a hundred guesses to name the Religion that has caused the most bickering, hate and segregation. If there is an abandonment of Religion in the public arena it will be because of that religions intolerance. It just can't play nicely with other faiths. :angel:

Yes CG, if you are talking about Christianity, you are correct. Christ Himself said as much. He said something to the effect, "If they persecute Me they will persecute you also", meaning the world will persecute the Christians, His followers.

The truth is a serious thing. I know whereof I speak -- it has caused me to get dismissed from many jobs. If you keep dishing out the truth to others all the time, most people will get to hate you for it, just as they hated Christ for His truthfulness. And the more evil their nature, the more they will hate you! So if the majority are going to react adversely to the truth, morality and righteousness, the poor Christians don't have a leg to stand on!

So I suppose you can say that Christianity, or any true and sincere religion for that matter, will "cause" bickering hate and segregation! Not that the religion is intolerant; it could well be the strong reaction of others against the truth which causes the religion to seem to be intolerant!

Satan is one source of these thoughts, but it is not always obvious that what he suggests is a 'bad' thing. For example he puts the thought of equality for all into your head - which is a good thing. But for that to ever happen you have to either toss out religion or have one universal religion.

You see, bsm, this is where the whole 'equality' opinion turns into a flame war. I think you need to be a little more specific. Do you mean equal or separate? When I read that part of your post, I thought to myself "now, does bsm mean that by being of a different faith, that someone is better that someone else?"

When you play the equality card, you have to be careful, because carelessness can lead to hurt feelings. I don't like being told that someone is better than I am simply because they praise a different God. I'm sure you would dislike it immensely if a Jewish person or a Muslim person told you that they were better than you because they worshipped in a different way.

So, when you talk about equality, make sure that you know what parameters you're covering; we may not be equal in faith, but what about everything else? And does this difference mean that someone is "better" than someone else?

George

looks like some pretty evil stuff to me.

and one section talks about demons being good and respectable?

satan is a master of deception.

I will read the propaganda on that site and get back to you.

You don't seem to be buying any of it though.

As I have said Christ way is the best way I have see so far.

Satan is one source of these thoughts, but it is not always obvious that what he suggests is a 'bad' thing. For example he puts the thought of equality for all into your head - which is a good thing. But for that to ever happen you have to either toss out religion or have one universal religion.

The problem is there are too many religions. The antichrist wants to bring about a world of peace - most likely by removing religion all together, the mark will be all you need to live in peace and if you cling to religion then you will be excluded or put to death - all in the name of equality for all.

It will sorta like communism where everyone is treated equally and there is suppose to be worldwide peace. But removing the God of the bible or replacing him with another 'god' who all will be forced to serve is exactly opposite to Christ's teachings. We are not suppose to accept everyone as they are - with all their religions, gods, beliefs.

And this bickering is what makes the majority beleive that we need to toss out religion because it is causing segragation and hate. So we toss out religion and make everyone equal. It is not that simple, but it will happen.

So which religion should we toss out? I would say the one that is intolerant should be the one to go.
I hope people can see your words for what there are. You are trying to say equality will remove religion. For you religion is Christianity there are no others?
Equality well bring respect for a persons religion just as you want them to respect your religion. The bickering will stop. You are afraid of this I don't know why but you are. Why would you be so afraid to sit and discuss Satanism with a Satanist? Are you so unsure of your faith? I would learn to understand them but I would be no less a believer in Christ the man that walked the earth.




Look at what Jesus said is the first and great commandment ...

Matthew 22:35-40

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

But in the name of equality for all, the great commandment - God first - is being replaced with love thy neighbour as thyself - simply because we can't agree on which God is the true god. So to stop all the bickering between all the religions, religion will be 'removed' so to speak and replaced with the mandatory mark of the beast.

When they try to completely stamp the true God out, then the stage will be set for armegeddon. And it seems to be coming sooner than we think.

But as we read above the first and great commandment is to put God first, also the first of the 10 commandments - so why are we replacing God with love for our neighbours? If we all put God first, love for our neighbour comes naturally. But many religions don't put God first, they are more like hiarchies with many levels and ranks like the police force.

Now ask yourself when you already advanced up the ranks, do you want to be a servant or be seen with the little people? Will you not oppose anyone that tries to remove the structure and put all members on the same level? Isn't this focusing on your own glory by virtue of rank, rather than focusing on God?

Just look at all the structured religions out there with many ranks, fancy churches, church buses with logos and copyrights. We are doing it wrong, religion is free, everyone is on he same level. There is not suppose to be any ranking structures. We are supposed to be winning souls, not seeking after ranking and bickering about the right God and equality for all.

I said it before equality for all is STILL subject to the first and great commandment - God first, then love for your neighbour. We can't get to heaven by works without faith, so no matter how peaceful and equal we become, if we lose God in the process then we are all lost.

too bad there are to many religions with more than one god or none at all, we have essentially lost the 'true' religion among all the other religions. Satan is a master of deception.

my question is why almost every rule in the bible is broken in the real world? I think it is because the master of deception has deceived the whole world and is always trying to get us to break or replace one more rule, and earning your way to heaven by doing good works is one of the best weapons in his arsenal. There are whole religions based on works instead of faith. But faith is the only way to God not works.

But of course you have to be a christian to see all the rules being broken, even by other christians. The accuser points at the wayward christians and uses them as fuel to create new religions. Everyone accepts his lies, and they turn away and say see christianity does not work. Just like the laws of the state don't work - because everyone breaks the law, hence we are always trying to change the law because they don't work.

My next question is since the laws of the state don't work should we change the laws or simply OBEY them.

i.e. the law works but only if we all don't break them and try to bend and change them. The bible is the same and it puts God first NOT love for our neighbours - christians are not supposed to be friends of the world in the first place. We are supposed to be leading them to God and following God's commands, but we fail in this as a whole - not all of us - the majority. So we have given christianity a bad name. So is it any wonder we have a hard time leading people to the Lord anymore? The accuser is standing by to whisper HYPOCRITE in their ears as soon as you try to reach them, and I can't blame them - after all that is what they see, and seeing is believing - they all want proof and signs before they will believe remember?

You see, bsm, this is where the whole 'equality' opinion turns into a flame war. I think you need to be a little more specific. Do you mean equal or separate? When I read that part of your post, I thought to myself "now, does bsm mean that by being of a different faith, that someone is better that someone else?"

When you play the equality card, you have to be careful, because carelessness can lead to hurt feelings. I don't like being told that someone is better than I am simply because they praise a different God. I'm sure you would dislike it immensely if a Jewish person or a Muslim person told you that they were better than you because they worshipped in a different way.

So, when you talk about equality, make sure that you know what parameters you're covering; we may not be equal in faith, but what about everything else? And does this difference mean that someone is "better" than someone else?

George


Hi George, equality does not have anything to do with choice of religion. But as vicky suggests below the most intolerant religion should be thrown out - not ALL religion. I said 'in the name of equality' for all - they point to religion as the problem for segragation, hatred, prejudice, etc. Doing away with religion is not the answer - we are all equal. Now if we beleive in different God's is that a reason to get rid of any religion? It is almost the same as politics, almost all religions want to be the one.

Put another way how many non-religious people commit rape, murder, prostitution, etc? So how will removing religion make a difference? The anti christ will replace religion with government, and the majority will appreciate it, but the majority is often wrong.


So which religion should we toss out? I would say the one that is intolerant should be the one to go.
*because they speak out against your way of life? because they tell you you should have some principals and morality? don't let the radical beleivers deter you from religion.

I hope people can see your words for what there are. You are trying to say equality will remove religion.
*if they said tomorrow that they are taking votes to ban christianity in the bahamas - you would be first in line right?

For you religion is Christianity there are no others?
*For me yes, but I still respect others for what they believe, yet I will still endeavour to win them over to my religion. When the anti christ announces himself, people will want to become christians, but they will be slaughtered if they profess a religion and refuse the mark of the beast. Those that accept the mark will not enter heaven, they won't be pardoned.

Equality well bring respect for a persons religion just as you want them to respect your religion. The bickering will stop. You are afraid of this I don't know why but you are.
*the only way christians will not preach the gospel is if they are removed, and some will be when the antichrist comes and they refuse to accept his mark. The mark requires that you don't beleive in a religion or at least not christianity.

Why would you be so afraid to sit and discuss Satanism with a Satanist?
*I am not afraid to talk with a satanist or afraid of satanism.

Are you so unsure of your faith?
*do you really believe I am unsure of my faith?

I would learn to understand them but I would be no less a believer in Christ the man that walked the earth.
*you aren't a believer in christ vicky, you only like what he taught, but you don't believe in Christ. You said so yourself in response to Rizzo, remember?



Don't you see true christians do treat others equally they don't force or impose a way of life on unbeleivers - that is what the crusades did with no luck - force does not make anyone do as you ask, it causes resentment.

a christians primary job is to preach the gospel to draw men unto christ. Jesus never went around critisizing and condemning people, he came to save the world not to condemn, but he will judge when he returns.

I don't go around bashing anyone, I don't talk to politicians, I don't take up picket signs and protest, I don't attend a church or preach about tithes - hardly ever, I don't even vote.

But if you ask for answers and opinions related to God and Jesus and religion in general I do give my opinion based on the bible version of christianity not the church version. I stand for the truth according to the bible, not according to the desires of my flesh.

If I yielded to my flesh I would have been to cuba by now, I would fight for legal prostitiution and pornography, I would fight for drugs and alcohol, I would say let the unbelievers do as we like(if I were an unbeliever). But I am not but I have many of the same weaknesses that unbelievers do, just better control over myself than them because I am governed by unchanging laws not the laws of man that change daily and tend toward corruption.

Any good religion is better than none at all, but there is only one way to salvation according to my beliefs, and while I don't try to get rid of other religions I try to win their followers over to christianity - because there is only on way to God - through Jesus, not works.

I don't see christians as better than anyone else, and I treat everyone equally, but I still try to share the gospel with them knowing that they will do as they please until they are ready - my job is to sow the seed in their heart, not to murder them for not believing.

we are all equal as humans, and God gave us all free will - to follow him or to as we please - are job as christians is not change the world just the hearts of those within the world - and we can lead souls to the Lord if we are killing them.

There are to many radical believers, not only chistians that give religion a bad name because they focus on the wrong thing. Once you are saved, and explore your bible you will find the truth and see what you should not do. Many just get saved and go out to convert others and all to often they do it distastefully and cause people to resent the religion because of it's radical followers.

The disciples were so like Christ that they were called christians by the people who saw them - christians today would be called anything but christians by the public, because they don't act like christ did.

Please don't confuse what I said, I never said christians are better than anyone. And I never said I was scared of satanism or homosexuals. I have friends that are homosexuals and I know at least one person that practiced obeah - I don't hate either, I pray for their salvation. I don't speak out against them, I pray for them and speak gently to them.

As I have said Christ way is the best way I have see so far.


the only thing you talk about is equality for all and use the second greatest commandment according to Jesus to back you up.

but you neglect the first and greatest commandment in the previous verse,
how ironic.

Jesus said he is the way, the only way to God:

John 14:5-7
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

do you beleive that?

Luke 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

do you beleive he is the son of God?

John 1:10-11
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
(you are not a Johnist, but John lived and saw Jesus)

he may be the best way you have seen so far, but hear what Jesus is saying to you and all the other people that admire him but don't believe him:

[Note: This is Jesus speaking, not John]

John 3:16-19
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Perhaps their is a good reason why you think his way is the best so far, but you are condemned already according to Jesus for your unbelief.

Bsmbahamas, with all due respect, you seem to be saying that Vicky is not a Christian because he does not see Jesus by the same light you do. Is that correct? Can you clarify this point?

And if I may ask another question, what is a Christian? I know that the short answer would be, a follower of Christ but can you elaborate on that?

QUOTE=CG
Bsmbahamas, with all due respect, you seem to be saying that Vicky is not a Christian because he does not see Jesus by the same light you do. Is that correct?

Vicky said he does not believe in Jesus in response to Rizzo in another post, he said no to 3 distinct questions.

---

Can you clarify this point?

Vicky admires Jesus teachings like I admire the the teachings of Buddha, but that does not make one a christian.

---

And if I may ask another question, what is a Christian? I know that the short answer would be, a follower of Christ but can you elaborate on that?

A christian is more than just a follower of Christ.

1 John 4:3-6
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

First and foremost you must believe and tell others if asked that Jesus came as flesh from God - i.e. he is God's son and came to earth as a human being.

Belief in a creator s not enough:

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Belief that good works without faith is not enough:

Ephesians 2:7-9
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Belief that christ is who he said he was - faith, that he was God's only son, that no man cometh to the father but by him, that he is the only way to God, and repenting of sin. Not to be perfect, but to turn away from sin and try to be a new person. Faith is the most important part. Without faith you cannot be saved, and vicky said he does not believe in Jesus. ANd he does not believe that he is alive. If christ didn't die then our faith is in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:12-17

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

and christ would also be a liar, because he went to prepare a place for us:

John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

if Vicky believes in Jesus then he also believes that he went to prepare a place for us ...

and again Jesus said:

John 3:16-19
For God(not gods) so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

vicky does not believe all this, he believes that christ is dead, if he ever lived at all.

You said you taught religion CG, if you know christianity then you know that salvation is a gift obtained by faith in Jesus, not works.

I am not judging vicky, I am showing him what Jesus himself and the bible says. Jesus will do the judging when he returns. I desire that all be saved. But I want people to be clear on how to be saved - by faith not works, and faith in Jesus.

QUOTE=CG
Bsmbahamas, with all due respect, you seem to be saying that Vicky is not a Christian because he does not see Jesus by the same light you do. Is that correct?

Vicky said he does not believe in Jesus in response to Rizzo in another post, he said no to 3 distinct questions.

---

Can you clarify this point?

Vicky admires Jesus teachings like I admire the the teachings of Buddha, but that does not make one a christian.

---

And if I may ask another question, what is a Christian? I know that the short answer would be, a follower of Christ but can you elaborate on that?

A christian is more than just a follower of Christ.

1 John 4:3-6
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

First and foremost you must believe and tell others if asked that Jesus came as flesh from God - i.e. he is God's son and came to earth as a human being.

Belief in a creator s not enough:

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Belief that good works without faith is not enough:

Ephesians 2:7-9
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Belief that christ is who he said he was - faith, that he was God's only son, that no man cometh to the father but by him, that he is the only way to God, and repenting of sin. Not to be perfect, but to turn away from sin and try to be a new person. Faith is the most important part. Without faith you cannot be saved, and vicky said he does not believe in Jesus. ANd he does not believe that he is alive. If christ didn't die then our faith is in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:12-17

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

and christ would also be a liar, because he went to prepare a place for us:

John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

if Vicky believes in Jesus then he also believes that he went to prepare a place for us ...

and again Jesus said:

John 3:16-19
For God(not gods) so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

vicky does not believe all this, he believes that christ is dead, if he ever lived at all.

You said you taught religion CG, if you know christianity then you know that salvation is a gift obtained by faith in Jesus, not works.

I am not judging vicky, I am showing him what Jesus himself and the bible says. Jesus will do the judging when he returns. I desire that all be saved. But I want people to be clear on how to be saved - by faith not works, and faith in Jesus.

First of all I want to thank you for your reply. I have asked the question, "What is a Christian?" often on this site and you are the first to reply (unless I missed a post, or have forgotten.)

In my classes I ask the same question of all my students about their faith, Christian and non-Christian alike. Seldom do I get the same answer, unless it is the most common of all answers, "I don't know!" What a shame that so many do not know. I respect the fact that you do know what you believe and are willing to share it. No greater love and respect can one person show another that to share one of the most precious things, ones faith.

If I was to ask that of a Catholic the same question I asked of you I would get an answer very different from yours. That is my point there is no universal answer to the question "What is a (place your religion here.)" We all see what we see by the light that is give us, or by our resolve to seek out that light. There is no wrong answer, as I see it, there are just, answers.

First of all I want to thank you for your reply. I have asked the question, "What is a Christian?" often on this site and you are the first to reply (unless I missed a post, or have forgotten.)

In my classes I ask the same question of all my students about their faith, Christian and non-Christian alike. Seldom do I get the same answer, unless it is the most common of all answers, "I don't know!" What a shame that so many do not know. I respect the fact that you do know what you believe and are willing to share it. No greater love and respect can one person show another that to share one of the most precious things, ones faith.

If I was to ask that of a Catholic the same question I asked of you I would get an answer very different from yours. That is my point there is no universal answer to the question "What is a (place your religion here.)" We all see what we see by the light that is give us, or by our resolve to seek out that light. There is no wrong answer, as I see it, there are just, answers.


Indeed everyone has a different answer.

I read a book about satanism written by a person that was deep into it and backed out - she said that satanists can say they are christian and they believe in god and even Jesus, but they can't say that they believe he came to earth in the flesh and was sent by God. She said if they did that they would be killed. She sited the scripture below as a test and if you read mathew, mark, luke or john you will notice that Jesus continually says that he is the son of God the father, not mother as in mother nature - God is always a father. Further if you look closely at most of the new testament especially where Jesus speaks in the gospel he continually uses the 'believe' as in faith.
Later another author I think it is Paul or John says that we are saved by faith not by works for salvation is a gift of God.

1 John 4:3-6
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Many christian denominations are way of track from the biblical principles of christianity. The same book about the satanist that is now a christian said that satanists are taught a step by step strategy for sneaking into churches and polluting them. She said some of their tactics were to pretend to be saved and work at running some aspect of the church like sunday school or womens retreats, etc and teach irrelevant parts of the bible. she said they would sometimes be given money and become a big sponsor of the church and try to get on the board of directors so to speak where they can influence what the churches agendas are. She asked the reader 'have you ever noticed how rarely the pastor will speak about satan?' and suggests it is intentional. If he is forgotten then it is easier to break peoples faith.

the book is called "he came to set the captives free" you may have read it or heard of it.

she talks about the soul and spirit of man and how they are connected and even talks about astral projection.

the funny thing is a lot of what she talked about is appearing in many popular television shows - like astral projection. Another site I am reading suggests that satan uses subtlety to introduce many occult related concepts slowly until people just accept them and even expect them.

I started this thread hoping to get a conversation going about satan and his tricks and I believe some of our members may be able to contribute based on their own experiences.

Another thing too CG is many of the christian denominations are not teaching salvation comes through faith in christ at all, and are more 'works' oriented. But nobody can be saved by works alone because everyone is a sinner and even saved people still sin from time to time, but all we have to do now is ask for forgiveness and continue to repent(turn away from sin) - no need for animal sacrifices anymore.

Jesus always stresses that faith in him as the son of God was is the only way to be saved.

their are many churches that call themselves christian, but they do not teach that salvation comes by faith. I have even read of catholic priests and nuns who left the catholic religion and they said for up to 15 years some of them were never taught that faith in Jesus is required for salvation - but they were following the commandments and praying and doing good works for years and rarely even heard of Jesus in their churches, they were always works oriented, and because of the structured nature of the religion, many were just following orders handed down to them like soldiers and got in trouble if they protested.

here are 2 links - a former nun and priest speak out ...
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r010.html
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r011.html

note that catholic religion is considered christian, but notice how much things they point out and how much resistance they got for following their bibles instead of the orders from the top.

Yes CG, if you are talking about Christianity, you are correct. Christ Himself said as much. He said something to the effect, "If they persecute Me they will persecute you also", meaning the world will persecute the Christians, His followers.

The truth is a serious thing. I know whereof I speak -- it has caused me to get dismissed from many jobs. If you keep dishing out the truth to others all the time, most people will get to hate you for it, just as they hated Christ for His truthfulness. And the more evil their nature, the more they will hate you! So if the majority are going to react adversely to the truth, morality and righteousness, the poor Christians don't have a leg to stand on!

So I suppose you can say that Christianity, or any true and sincere religion for that matter, will "cause" bickering hate and segregation! Not that the religion is intolerant; it could well be the strong reaction of others against the truth which causes the religion to seem to be intolerant!

No Great Demos it is the other way around. For Christians its simply "you fit in our way or you don't fit in. If you don't fit in we will point you out we will condemn who you are we will condemn how you live. We will eve have protest in Rawson sq.

No Great Demos it is the other way around. For Christians its simply "you fit in our way or you don't fit in. If you don't fit in we will point you out we will condemn who you are we will condemn how you live. We will eve have protest in Rawson sq.


there are radicals in every religion.

and the rainbow alliance and all the gay people are protesting as well.

Too bad the radicals give christianity a bad name. All christians are not like that. Our primary function is to spread the gospel, not 'persecute' unbelievers. Too many christians get caught up with pointing out the sins of others instead of preaching the gospel like Jesus instructed.

Notice when I criticize the same sex marriage I did so on a forum in a debate which was setup to discuss the subject - I don't go out of my way to protest against the GBLT community. I am primarily concerned with sharing the gospel and explaining the bible as I understand it - if one of them gets saved, the bible will point out there wrong doings - no need for me to do that.

But all religions have a right to advise the government on matters that will affect society - just as the rainbow alliance is a group that wishes to advise the government. Ultimately the government makes the laws not the public advisory groups. Nothing wrong with voicing your opinion as long as it is done with tact and respect - radicals don't care about tact, they let their emotions get the better of them.

I am sure all of the radicals who were at the protest could not honestly cast the first stone. Really and truly they should appeal directly to the government not do their own thing - especially if the government allowed the ship to dock.

Forcing your view on somebody rarely works, if you converse without allowing the other side to speak then your not discussing, rather you are announcing.

Ideally both groups should approach the government in a respectful manner and let them decide what to do with the laws.

I associate with gay and feminine type males, I am not afraid of them but I will still always tell them that homosexuality is a sin - if they ask and only if they ask my opinion.

Like you asked vicky, what difference does it make to a christian if same sex marriages are given the ok - it makes no difference, but that does not mean it is ok by God's standards. But who really cares right? After all I am not responsible for lost souls if I tried respectfully and failed.

but how could I even have a chance or hope of winning you over to my views if I am launching a protest against you?

Here's a good question vicky - adultery was punishable by death in the pre-Jesus days but now it has no penalty at all, at least that I know of. Why aren't the radicals protesting against adultery?

First of all I want to thank you for your reply. I have asked the question, "What is a Christian?" often on this site and you are the first to reply (unless I missed a post, or have forgotten.)

In my classes I ask the same question of all my students about their faith, Christian and non-Christian alike. Seldom do I get the same answer, unless it is the most common of all answers, "I don't know!" What a shame that so many do not know. I respect the fact that you do know what you believe and are willing to share it. No greater love and respect can one person show another that to share one of the most precious things, ones faith.

If I was to ask that of a Catholic the same question I asked of you I would get an answer very different from yours. That is my point there is no universal answer to the question "What is a (place your religion here.)" We all see what we see by the light that is give us, or by our resolve to seek out that light. There is no wrong answer, as I see it, there are just, answers.

CG, on your question, "What is a Christian?" Check my post # 101 in the thread "Why is there this resentment of Christians?" I gave you my answer Dec 15 to your post # 77. You probably didn't see it -- I wondered why you didn't respond to it!

CG, on your question, "What is a Christian?" Check my post # 101 in the thread "Why is there this resentment of Christians?" I gave you my answer Dec 15 to your post # 77. You probably didn't see it -- I wondered why you didn't respond to it!


Here is my definition of a Christian: A person who has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord, Master and Saviour of his life, has complete hope, faith and trust in Him, has truly surrendered his life to Christ, and has committed himself to Christ's teachings and His works.

Wow! There is so much going on, on these threads that one tends to miss things! Sorry about that! Your definition of a Christian is very much the standard one. It is also one that a person cannot take issue with. Thanks for your answer.