Equality for all, without God ...

[Vicky]

Yes Vicky, the Creator knows all things we do and plan to do, etc. But the Creator is Spirit, though He can appear in any form. He uses earthly people as His Hands and Feet to serve others and also to teach others. Also, He can cause you to have dreams and visions or put a strong impression into your heart about truth. But if He uses all these different ways to talk to us and we don't listen, He would not like it!
Maybe just maybe that is why my hands find the right keys to press. Maybe that is why me who has dyslexia is moved to type the way I do. What is it that makes me someone who has so much trouble reading can read so clearly when a responses is needed. Why do I stand for gay and lesbians who I don’t know when I am only transgendered/gender dysphoria? When their issue is not my issue? Why is it that the Creator picks on those people that are average or less than average to be "His Hands and Feet to serve others and also to teach others".
I am that I am made me as I am (now where did that come from).


And yes, I for one also believe in questioning everything! But if you have been questioning His word (or the Bible) for such a long time, you really should have some very good answers by now. I mean you should be on the top of your form. We should all be able to learn much from you, hopefully.

Ah but do you listen. or are you stuck in popular religion. Did the religous leaders listen to Christ what what he taught. They heard him but they did not listen because it went against all they believed

[Vicky]

That is not what I said, I said that homosexuality is plainly forbidden in the bible, I have never once heard you admit that this is true. Second, the bible has no marriages between same sex gender as I recall.

first you have to admit that it is a sin, before you can turn away from it.



I didn't make the laws, I don't agree with homosexuality, and I don't agree with same sex marriage. That said, I don't preach that at anyone, I have gay friends, if they ask me then I will tell them that I don't agree, but I will never treat them differently. Same sex marriage is not permitted by law in the Bahamas -> who made these laws? the lawmakers or the chrstians?

everyone has a duty to influence government in a positive way. I don't see the harm caused by gays getting married - but my religion forbids it. I don't preach my religion unless asked. I could care less if you guys got marriage priviledges, but I will not ever agree with it, because it is a forbidden practice.

my religion is my religion - not yours, you are free to do as you please, I already told you that - in fact I said that your group needs to go after the lawmakers not the forum - we can't change the law.

Do You feel its ok to have laws that treat people differently than you your self want to be treated.
Yes or no.

[Vicky]

Vicky, Christ forgave the woman for her sin, You missed a very improtant part of the lesson. He with out sin cast the first stone. You/we are all equal. Please name 1 human that has not sined. and don't use Christ.
and told her to go and sin no more - he did not say it is ok for us to sin! Further, Jesus is God and has the ability to forgive sins - human can't forgive sins, So then you would stone her?
they can forgive you for trespassing againt them but they cannot pardon your sins - Jesus is God he could forgive sins and he did. He forgave other of their sins while he walked the earth as well. But he also stressed that you can't get to the the father by him.

check it out:

Matthew 9:6
But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins....” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”
Matthew 9:2-7 (King James Version)
2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
3And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7And he arose, and departed to his house

Let me post it in plan english. Oh and please note the copyright and the owner.
Matthew 9:2-7 (New American Standard Bible)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

2(A)And they brought to Him a (B)paralytic lying on a bed Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "(C)Take courage, son; (D)your sins are forgiven."
3And some of the scribes said to themselves, "This fellow (E)blasphemes."
4And Jesus (F)knowing their thoughts said, "Why are you thinking evil in your hearts?
5"Which is easier, to say, '(G)Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, and walk'?
6"But so that you may know that (H)the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the (I)paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home."
7And he got up and went home.
Please note Christ did not forgive him his sins. But he told him to get up and walk.
You see the scribes and pherases made a living out of judging peoples sins. They could forgive people that have broken the law. But Christ showed them that their power was meaningless.

Please keep it in context.



Luke 5:21
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

[bsmbahamas]

You missed a very improtant part of the lesson. He with out sin cast the first stone. You/we are all equal. Please name 1 human that has not sined. and don't use Christ. So then you would stone her?
Matthew 9:2-7 (King James Version)
2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
3And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7And he arose, and departed to his house

Let me post it in plan english. Oh and please note the copyright and the owner.
Matthew 9:2-7 (New American Standard Bible)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

2(A)And they brought to Him a (B)paralytic lying on a bed Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "(C)Take courage, son; (D)your sins are forgiven."
3And some of the scribes said to themselves, "This fellow (E)blasphemes."
4And Jesus (F)knowing their thoughts said, "Why are you thinking evil in your hearts?
5"Which is easier, to say, '(G)Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, and walk'?
6"But so that you may know that (H)the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the (I)paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home."
7And he got up and went home.
Please note Christ did not forgive him his sins. But he told him to get up and walk.
You see the scribes and pherases made a living out of judging peoples sins. They could forgive people that have broken the law. But Christ showed them that their power was meaningless.

Please keep it in context.


Vicky verse 2 in both versions has Jesus telling the man that his sins have been forgiven.

You also say I pick and choose which rules to follow, but you don't admit that homosexuality is a sin.

I don't condemn you/them for being that way. Further that women would have been stoned by the people acting under the law. Jesus removed that law and said to forgive others who sin against us, not to keep killing them as punishment under moses' law. Jesus' purpose was to put an end to blood being shed for atonement of sin, now we pray for forgiveness.

Notice he pardoned her sin, because Jesus came to suffer for sinners in place of them or animal blood being shed. However, he still told her to go and sin no more. He told us to forgive one another 70 times 7. He suffered to allow sin to be pardoned, that's why we aren't supposed to sacrifice animals or kill sinners anymore. To bad the crusader and inquisitors did not get this.

On that note, homosexuality is clearly a sin, and was once punished by death.
Sinners are not to be put to death, they are to repent of their sins and pray to be forgiven - and then 'go and sin no more'. Obviously you can sin again if you are not put to death, and should keep working at overcoming sin, and praying for strength and forgiveness.

Instead you say, we were born this way, it is ok to be this way, oh, and we also should be able to marry because it is equality for all. But the bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. you are teaching others that God's word is wrong, and your interpretation is right.

do you not admit that homosexuality is a sin?

and if you do, why do you then encourage same sex marriage
which revolves around homosexuality?

is it not enough to be sinful, that you also want to pervert marriage?

Like parietal suggests, the sun shines on the wicked and the just, and God allows both to sin as they please without punishing them directly. So do as you please, but why go against God's word and teach others that it is ok to do so as well?

---

To Parietal:

No offence taken with the wife thing.

I try to always quote in context, I feel that if the advice being given
then still holds true and is in context, that it is still true as if it was spoken
today.

When God said "Thou shalt not kill" isn't it still valid today if not taken out of context?

[bsmbahamas]

Oh and by the way, you didn't supply an alternative context, just a different version of the verses.

What do you take it to mean?

'cause we are going around killing homosexuals or adulterers for that matter, both of which were punished by death before Jesus died for our sins.

Please explain the verses in your context.

[parietal_03]

I try to always quote in context, I feel that if the advice being given
then still holds true and is in context, that it is still true as if it was spoken
today.
So do as you please, but why go against God's word and teach others that it is ok to do so as well?
There you go! That's the thing though, SIN/transgression is oftentimes relative. For example, parents send their children to school to learn, sometimes they have to be disciplined when they run out. Spanked. Some parents don't have a problem with that- No transgression.
But now come see somebody pull the same child aside and wail they behind for no reason. You KNOW it! Transgression. And this is the problem with going by way of bits and pieces of Jewish Law. They are transgressions as far as Jews/Israelis are concerned. So whether you keep them or not, won't help you when you stand before your Makers.

We are all born in sin and shapen in iniquity. It is our very nature, and see, this I don't understand...like you said:Today
It has been proven - legalize marijuana and what happens to all them negative social ills?
According to the Bible, this is what Christ did on the cross...did away with the negative aspects of "demand" for Law and "supplied" what the people needed, Grace. So sin lost it's power, at least it was supposed to. But people still crying "Barabbas."

In the Netherlands, the CHOICE to smoke pot is afforded, just as you have the CHOICE to sin.
For some people, pot smoking is beneficial, others don't like it. And it is the same with sin.
As far as the Netherlands are concerned, those that DO smoke pot don't have the right to make those that don't smoke pot, smoke pot.
And those that DON'T can't hijack the choice to indulge from those that do.

Some choose to sin, that is their choice. Their choices bring them to consequences just as our choices bring us to consequence. You could give them their choice which is God-Ordained and tell them it is not OK to do this until Kingdom Come.
Will they believe you?



When God said "Thou shalt not kill" isn't it still valid today if not taken out of context?
Thou shalt not kill...plants? Animals? Men? Women? Children? Babies? Foetuses? The Earth? What have we NOT killed? Damn. We even kill God! Can you not see the "Thou shalt not" route don't work for humans?! Sometimes, I think that all The Three had to say to Mankind was "don't love we" or "don't love your neighbor" or "I don't exist" and Mankind would do the opposite of what ever The Three said.

How many people you know of keep every last one of those ten?
"Homosexuality" is NOT listed as one of the ten and how many people still doing it?
Grace man, GRACE! You could tell your child don't touch the iron all you want, but they still reserve the Yahweh-Given right to touch it, against both you and Yahweh's wishes. But if they do touch it, they are met with consequences and the amenities of a first aid kit, right? And not a stone and garrote, right?

[Vicky]

Vicky verse 2 in both versions has Jesus telling the man that his sins have been forgiven. Don't you see Christ was mocking the scribes when he did this.



You also say I pick and choose which rules to follow, Don't skirt this issue respond to it please
but you don't admit that homosexuality is a sin.

I don't condemn you/them for being that way. Further that women would have been stoned by the people acting under the law. Jesus removed that law Eh eh did you see what you say??????

and said to forgive others who sin against us, not to keep killing them as punishment under moses' law. Jesus' purpose was to put an end to blood being shed for atonement of sin, now we pray for forgiveness.
Eh eh did you see what you say?????? Not just blood but any form of dicrimanation

Notice he pardoned her sin, because Jesus came to suffer for sinners in place of them or animal blood being shed. However, he still told her to go and sin no more. He told us to forgive one another 70 times 7. He suffered to allow sin to be pardoned, that's why we aren't supposed to sacrifice animals or kill sinners anymore. To bad the crusader and inquisitors did not get this.

This is so true. To bad so call them selves Christians do not get it today

On that note, homosexuality is clearly a sin, and was once punished by death.
Sinners are not to be put to death, they are to repent of their sins and pray to be forgiven - and then 'go and sin no more'. Obviously you can sin again if you are not put to death, and should keep working at overcoming sin, and praying for strength and forgiveness.

Instead you say, we were born this way, it is ok to be this way, oh, and we also should be able to marry because it is equality for all. But the bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. you are teaching others that God's word is wrong, and your interpretation is right.

do you not admit that homosexuality is a sin?

and if you do, why do you then encourage same sex marriage
which revolves around homosexuality?

is it not enough to be sinful, that you also want to pervert marriage?

Like parietal suggests, the sun shines on the wicked and the just, and God allows both to sin as they please without punishing them directly. So do as you please, but why go against God's word and teach others that it is ok to do so as well?

---

To Parietal:

No offence taken with the wife thing.

I try to always quote in context, I feel that if the advice being given
then still holds true and is in context, that it is still true as if it was spoken
today.

When God said "Thou shalt not kill" isn't it still valid today if not taken out of context?



BSM it seems we are starting to understand.
Let me hepl you understand something.
Please list the verses where homosexuality is a sin. I know you have done it before but do 1 more time.

Oh and when you do please point out where it says its a sin.

[Vicky]

Oh and by the way, you didn't supply an alternative context, just a different version of the verses.

What do you take it to mean?

'cause we are going around killing homosexuals or adulterers for that matter, both of which were punished by death before Jesus died for our sins.

Please explain the verses in your context.

The religious leaders of Israel sold forgiveness. You paid them to sacrifice and animal to be forgiven of your sins. The moneychangers in the temple. They changed all manner of monetary currency to sacrificial currency. They used the Creator in the way of forgiveness of transgressions of the law to line their pockets. In short they sold forgiveness.
The scribes tried to tempt Christ so he temped them back. Then he showed them who really had the power.
Let me say it again and another way.
They brought Christ a paralytic man to make a mockery of Christ. But He mocked them back by saying to the man your sins are forgiven. But to prove to them they had no power he healed the man. Then asked which is harder to forgive the man or to tell him to walk??

[Great Demos]

Come now Demos, you know better than this. When you quote Scriptures from the Bible, do you COPY and PASTE the entire Bible or do you just post textural excerpts?
I'm sure I can find a verse in the Bible that says

"3Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

4And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts."

You have a fellow brother in Christ in bsmbahamas, do you not?
As accurate as that is to the KJV, you should be corrupting bsmbahamas's sperm and children then? "Even the dung of your solemn feasts..." does this mean that bsmbahamas' wife can't cook? So you should be spreading dung on other people's faces then?
It's accurate. Look it up in Malachi 2. Taking just this portion of scripture to consideration would raise hell amongst the both of you correct?

But unless you read all of Malachi then you won't get it. Further, unless you read the entire Bible preceding to Malachi you won't understand it. You have to read the entire Bible to put it in it's suggested context. Just because 2,000 year old scrolls were found does not mean that was all the scrolls that was ever written. The fact that these scrolls were found HIDDEN tells you what? And you think that's the only hidden cache of scrolls?!

Bsmbahamas, If I have caused you any offense/discomfort with my analogy, I apologize profusely and humbly ask your forgiveness.
I did this to show that taking PORTIONS of scripture and applying what you think they mean to other people and their family (without their assent/consent) can prove detrimental, even lethal! At best, when put into practice: it is "the gentle art of making enemies."
People MEAN to leave out bits and pieces of the Bible to manipulate what they want from society. The fact that the Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden says something.
Look at Amos 9:7. Were there NO witnesses to this? Not one?! Even Sodom had a few and both Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed! Why are there no records of this beyond a mere mention? "Hidden"? Please!

Ok Parietal, I am aware of taking things out of context, etc,. I noted that passage from Malachi where the LORD was giving a warning to corrupt priests through the prophet Malachi.

I am also aware of things to be taken into consideration in "rightly dividing the word", like finding out who is speaking, and who the scripture is speaking to.

I don't know what you mean by the scrolls were hidden, but it is believed they were written by the Essenes, a strict Jewish sect who were being chased out of town by enemies. So they were probably trying to secure thier prized possessions. Also, there are most likely many other hidden scrolls.

I simply believe the Bible is the word of God. I like to read it and meditate on it and learn about Him and His ways. To me it is spiritually refreshing. There are many things in it I don't understand, there are some things that even seem very strange and even unfair! As far as I am concerned, God must know why He put them in His word!

I might criticise or have doubts about other publications, but not the Bible! I believe it represents perfection. And it is not my nature to look hard and long in an effort to find errors or faults in what to me is perfection!

[Great Demos]

Maybe just maybe that is why my hands find the right keys to press. Maybe that is why me who has dyslexia is moved to type the way I do. What is it that makes me someone who has so much trouble reading can read so clearly when a responses is needed. Why do I stand for gay and lesbians who I don’t know when I am only transgendered/gender dysphoria? When their issue is not my issue? Why is it that the Creator picks on those people that are average or less than average to be "His Hands and Feet to serve others and also to teach others".
I am that I am made me as I am (now where did that come from).

Ah but do you listen. or are you stuck in popular religion. Did the religous leaders listen to Christ what what he taught. They heard him but they did not listen because it went against all they believed

Vicky, one day I believe you are going to preach the Gospel. God likes to use people who are strong minded!

But I'd just like to comment on your last paragraph. I know you have heard this before, but do YOU listen? About Christ and the religious leaders, that is a perfect example of the difference beween Christianity and Religion. the religious leaders, as you implied, had a different agenda. They believed in all kinds of rituals, the letter of the law. They were spiritually dead! They were angry with Christ for healing people on the sabbath day! They operated completely opposite to what Christianity stood for. Christianity is a way of life, NOT a religion! It is a way of life that follows the teachings of Christ. Christians are supposed to think like Him, talk like Him and act like Him!

[parietal_03]

I might criticise or have doubts about other publications, but not the Bible! I believe it represents perfection. And it is not my nature to look hard and long in an effort to find errors or faults in what to me is perfection!
I respect your belief and your nature, but I'm curious as to how a collection of books that has been revised over 27 times (and is still being disputed over by it's curators) is considered "perfect".
As one granted with the gift of being able to draw, I can relate all too well to the ideal of Perfection.
But concerning the concept of perfection, you mean to tell me that Scrutiny and Caliber are not at all important to you in terms of gauging perfection? Doesn't the Bible itself tell you to test everything? (And when it says "everything" perhaps it does indeed mean "everything.")

In case I misunderstand, please permit me to ask, Does the Bible itself say that it is perfect, or is this something you believe?

I believe it does not take a long hard look to find faults and errors. Just a sober and vigilant mind. But to find perfection requires quite the opposite.
Hebrews [7:18-19]

[parietal_03]

I know you have heard this before, but do YOU listen? About Christ and the religious leaders, that is a perfect example of the difference beween Christianity and Religion. the religious leaders, as you implied, had a different agenda. They believed in all kinds of rituals, the letter of the law. They were spiritually dead! They were angry with Christ for healing people on the sabbath day! They operated completely opposite to what Christianity stood for. Christianity is a way of life, NOT a religion! It is a way of life that follows the teachings of Christ. Christians are supposed to think like Him, talk like Him and act like Him!

Perhaps listening is not the correct word as it only concerns to a SINGLE sensory perception. Perhaps, "observe" would make a more viable substitution. If we can agree on this word, "observe", my observations are as follows.
1. The Messiah according to the Jewish Scriptures, was to come from the tribe of Judah of David's line.
Pray tell, what are the odds of a descendant of David from the tribe of Judah being given a Greek name?
About the same odds of a Bahamian child being named "Boodanoogie"with the use of sounds otherwise unnaturally pronounced by Bahamian tongue.
This observation tells me, right off the bat, something is wrong. If the very name of the Christ is contrived there could be more about this Christ presented to me through this Bible that can be contrived.
2. The Christ according to the Bible is described as being Jewish, yet, the Roman Catholic Church (just to name one that has been entrusted with stewardship of the Bible) has presented pictures, icons if you will of this Christ. And at the risk of sounding like a racial/ethnic profiler he doesn't look Jewish.
This observation as well, tells me that if the very image of Christ is contrived there could be more about this Christ presented to me through this Bible that can be contrived.
3. All "Christian" bibles that exist today are translations based on The Vulgate of the Roman Catholic Church. A Church mind you, that most professed Christians on this site would agree is not a trustworthy source in terms of following Christ's example.
This observation, tells me that the very nature of Christ they have is contrived. Therefore, there could be more about this Christ presented to me through this Bible (they produced) that can be contrived. Ergo, in touching upon the Messiah prophesied about in Jewish Scripture, the Roman Catholic Vulgate and any derivitive of it is severely edited.

4. Deeper than that though, as I said it has been revised. The Messiah promised in Jewish Scripture was to be "perfect," no sound Christian alive would dispute this. The Messiah was to have a "perfect" birth, a "perfect" life and a perfect "death." The Messiah has come and He has given His life. ONCE.
The Messiah that was sent, is, was and shall forever be in the hearts of His followers beyond human scrutiny and caliber.
Yet, the Bible is not. It is copyrighted (within human scrutiny). And has not been perfect 27 times as per it's existences/revisions (subject to human calibrations).
Twenty-seven attempts at perfection with failure and not ONCE with success as the Messiah foretold in Jewish Scriptures.
This observation, tells me that a choice is put forward nowadays in terms of which to trust as a source of perfection: The Omnipotent Emmanuel or The Inanimate Bible?
Whatever you choose, is what you follow...According to Paul, even the Ten Commandents given to Moses by God PERSONALLY made nothing perfect. Hebrews [7:18-19]
King David says otherwise. Psalm [19:7]
For two people who claim to testify of the same Kingdom and same God... These are opposing views are they not?
So how much more imperfect than The Ten would this Bible be which has been passed down from man to group, to man, to group, to man ad infinitum?

Christianity is a way of life, NOT a religion! It is a way of life that follows the teachings of Christ. Christians are supposed to think like Him, talk like Him and act like Him!
I'll agree with you on that concerning what Christians are supposed to do. But the Biblical Christ's teaching concerning division... Matthew [12:25], wouldn't this same teaching apply to a book that contradicts itself when it comes to perfection?

[Vicky]

Vicky, one day I believe you are going to preach the Gospel. God likes to use people who are strong minded!

But I'd just like to comment on your last paragraph. I know you have heard this before, but do YOU listen? About Christ and the religious leaders, that is a perfect example of the difference beween Christianity and Religion. the religious leaders, as you implied, had a different agenda. They believed in all kinds of rituals, the letter of the law. They were spiritually dead! They were angry with Christ for healing people on the Sabbath day! They operated completely opposite to what Christianity stood for. Christianity is a way of life, NOT a religion! What have I been saying all along. But Christianity as it is today is a religion not a way of life. If it were a way of life (The Way) look at what we would have, Heaven on earth is what we would have. You would see equality beyond your dreams. You would never go hungry unless you wanted to. There would be no homeless. When you met some one it would not matter who they loved. Blind dumb cripple or crazy they would all be as human as you are human. We would stand side by side to end all forms of discrimination. Because Christ never discriminated against anybody he even loved those who had him nailed to the cross. When you stand for your enemy’s right to a way of life you love your enemy as you would love your self.
It is a way of life that follows the teachings of Christ. Christians are supposed to think like Him, talk like Him and act like Him!

Great Demos you have brought tears to my eyes I am not kidding. All I can say is now you finally understand.
May the inner peace of The Way stay with you.

[Vicky]

Ok Parietal, I am aware of taking things out of context, etc,. I noted that passage from Malachi where the LORD was giving a warning to corrupt priests through the prophet Malachi.

I am also aware of things to be taken into consideration in "rightly dividing the word", like finding out who is speaking, and who the scripture is speaking to.

I don't know what you mean by the scrolls were hidden, but it is believed they were written by the Essenes, a strict Jewish sect who were being chased out of town by enemies. So they were probably trying to secure thier prized possessions. Also, there are most likely many other hidden scrolls.

I simply believe the Bible is the word of God. I like to read it and meditate on it and learn about Him and His ways. To me it is spiritually refreshing. There are many things in it I don't understand, there are some things that even seem very strange and even unfair! As far as I am concerned, God must know why He put them in His word!

I might criticise or have doubts about other publications, but not the Bible! I believe it represents perfection. And it is not my nature to look hard and long in an effort to find errors or faults in what to me is perfection!

I have a very deep question for you great demos.
Why do you believe the "Bible is the word of God"?
Have you seen Planet of The Apes the new one?????
try watching from a spiritual point of view. Pay attention to the Gorilla that is the generals right hand. If you can get it Enemy Mine is a great spiritual movie. All scifi but look past it.

[parietal_03]

Have you seen Planet of The Apes the new one?????
try watching from a spiritual point of view. Pay attention to the Gorilla that is the generals right hand. If you can get it Enemy Mine is a great spiritual movie. All scifi but look past it.

AH, Planet of The Apes and Enemy Mine. Love them both, it is through Science Fiction that we achieve a Science Future.
Have you ever seen Frank Herbert's Dune?