Hi Vicky, I told you repeatedly, you are NOT going to get perfect people in THIS world! To me this is what you seem to be looking for when you tell people or other Christians they are not following all the rules in the Bible. It just aint going to happen! Christ was/is the only person capable of doing this. And according to the Bible, the only time humans will be able to live sinless is in the next age when those who are accepted into the Kingdom are given their resurrection bodies. So why are professed Christians usurping other people's right to sin in an effort to create a second-rate utopia?

They know they have all sinned and are still sinning. The Bible says that. The thing is that they are TRYING THEIR BEST (or at least SHOULD BE) NOT TO SIN OR BREAK BIBLE RULES! That is the long and short of it. I can't break it down any simpler than that!
Honestly sir, it doesn't seem so. Are you doing your best to keep ALL of the Biblical Laws? Or just some of them, the ones you feel are relavant to your and your lifestyle? In cutting one's hair, which the Bible addresses, no HUGE amount of exertion is needed to try and keep that mandate. I'd like to call that BLATANT disobedience. But that's OK because there's an excuse for that, a little thing called GRACE. If you go by the teachings of the Christ accordig to the Bible, when it's been afforded to you, you should afford it to others.

Please now don't say you don't expect them to be perfect, etc, but you just don't want them to be a hypocrite -- Please don't say that, because as I explained before they are NOT trying to be a hypocrite -- they are just trying to help, even though sometimes they may go about it in the wrong way and not really mean it or even be aware of it!

If I'm not mistaken, the Christ according to the Bible CITIED awareness, as a prerequisite for becoming a Christian (taking up one's cross) called for sobriety and vigilance. Ideally, what one would LIKE to hear every now and then is, "My bad/I was mistaken/I wasn't aware/Perhaps I may have misinterpreted that - I will make it a point to be more aware in the future."
And the actual deed to accompany the words. Sounds like some people just adopt the title without counting the cost.

You can't blame the Christians of today for things which happened a thousand or more years ago!
I can if I am "excused" when I am not in the majority.
I can if I am considered "hypocrite" for not surrendering my right to scrutinize as I am scrutinized.
I can if among their ranks I am considered heathen.
I can if they make the same mistake their forbears did.
I can if they willfully remain ignorant to the stupid paths taken by their forbears.
I can if they don't have the tolerance to talk about pertainent issues because they are "shocked." But expect it from others when ENTIRE familes and lives have been lost in the past for not talking.
I can if Christians should be made of sterner stuff.
I can if my family members are considered "mutant".
I can if sins of non-Christians/unconventional Christians receive an onslaught of focus, yet the abomination of adultery, go conveniently un-protested because re-marriage brings more money to the church.
I can if the Bible candidly tells the Creation of Man as an evolutionary process of achieved states/steps, yet by and large professed Christians seek to have the "theory" of evolution banned from schools.
I can if talk about rightly dividing the word of God is proffered when The Bible itself says plainly that "Christ is the Word of God" not the Bible. Was He divided back then? Is Christ divided now?

Then, too, The Bible talks about "rightly dividing the word" (2 Tim 2:15). In studying the scripture we have to 1) find out who is speaking. 2) Find out who the scripture is speaking to, whether to the Jews, the Gentiles or the church. All the Bible is for the church, but not all the Bible is about the church. That is why we can't identify with some of the Old Testament scriptures today, some of which were guidelines for those days.
But really it shouldn't matter who is speaking and this wouldn't be necessary IF, and I say IF the Bible was the pure, untainted, unedited word of God.
Did Christ die for a select few, or did He die for all? See John [3:16], Christ was given/died for the world. As you yourself just said, the Bible is for the Church, NOT the world. So why then are Biblical Laws and Mandates being stuck down the shoving end of throats upon the world, when it is (as you just stated, in fact) for the Church?

With respect, if you continue with that kind of negative way (or what may be percieved to be negative), even if you are right, mark my words, the conflict between you and the other Christians will never end. Not me now, but THEY are going to feel that you just can't be pleased no matter what!
Oh that's the thing though, we know this because we've seen it happen to Christianity. Believe it or not we DO pay attention to our environment.
For example: Protestant vs. Catholic. There will always be conflict.
The difference is, you're just giving this advice NOW after we've known it (seen the pattern of it happening) for far too long. How many more people have to die and suffer before sobriety kicks in?

Someone's gonna have a helluva hangover.

Why do you believe the Bible is the ultimate word of God the Creator.
It is a very deep question please don't referance the Bible to answer the question.
Touching Vicky's question, I was led to believe that the Bible was the ultimate word of God the Creator because the family I was born into adopted said belief. I was forced to go to church. Forced to accept this belief without the decision to choose for myself, until I got older that is, by that time I was so indoctrinated with denominational group think that I could not see the flaws in the Bible. The conditions were so in the church that I attended that only what was in line with THEIR mandates/laws were read. Galatians Chapter 3, nor any verse of it, was ever read aloud in the church I attended. It blew my mind when I read it, that the VERY people who had coaxed me to be honest in all things had kept it from me and in doing so lied to me and allowed me to lie to others in the name of Jesus Christ.
For so long it had been pounded into me that we NEEDED to know our Bibles for when the last days came. But never was it taught that THESE are the Last Days and that God's Spirit would be poured out and his laws upon the hearts of men thus obviating the Bible.

It was two questions from a drunk man that woke me up.
Then I sat down and read the entire Bible back-to-front. VERY SLOWLY.

After finding some things that didn't add up, I went into a state of shock. I was a hermit for a VERY long time after that. I spent it asking for help and teaching from the Source. Been with Yahweh in the wilderness ever since.

Parietal 03, What is Yahweh? I am a Christian and have been one my entire life but I am not close minded to any other religions. As a matter of fact I am really curious about what other people believe and why. Since we're talking. I have an issue that I have been dealing with and I hope you might be able to just give me your thoughts on it. I believe in God and I believe in the trinity, but what I've been fighting with lately is the whole "church scene". Why can't I worship God at home? Why do I have to go Sunday after Sunday and listen to a man who is a human and has also fallen short of the glory of God himself, tell me how to live my life? I just don't want to live a life walking on eggshells for fear of going to hell. Not meaning I want to be free to sin, sin, sin. I just want to be free to be me without the fear of fire and brimstone.

Parietal 03, What is Yahweh?

It is said that "YAHWEH" is the phonetic pronounciation of the name given to Moses by the being in the burning bush. Before that point, there was no name for that specific being upon the lips of men other than (loose translations) "Lord/Sovereign Lord", "God" "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." This was the being that sent Moses to lead the Hebrews out of the land of Kem (Egypt). "Yahweh" was the name given to validate the authority that sent Moses.

I am a Christian and have been one my entire life but I am not close minded to any other religions. As a matter of fact I am really curious about what other people believe and why. Since we're talking. I have an issue that I have been dealing with and I hope you might be able to just give me your thoughts on it. I believe in God and I believe in the trinity, but what I've been fighting with lately is the whole "church scene". Why can't I worship God at home?
I do not know. As a matter of fact I ask that very same question to Christians. According to the Bible, Christ never slept in the Temple. He slept in people's homes. In his parables, he made it a point to reference one's place of residence as the point where HIS work was to be carried out. Look at The Good Samaritian for example. The travelling Samaritian put the man up at an inn, not in a temple.
Throughout/within the accounts the Bible gives, the word "church" is used in reference to people. Today it is used to reference buildings.

Why do I have to go Sunday after Sunday and listen to a man who is a human and has also fallen short of the glory of God himself, tell me how to live my life?
You don't have to, but as a child especially in THIS society you are often MADE to go, because your parents don't 'want to look bad.' As an adult, you don't have to go, but you are often (if not aloud, silently) castigated because of your choice to spend worship time alone, and fellowship time outside of walls.
I just don't want to live a life walking on eggshells for fear of going to hell. I know this all to well. I will speak from my experience. I have a relationship with my God. A love-based relationship. The first thing one ought to do in a love-based relationship is BE SINCERE. Nobody (and few there be if any) enjoys the company of a friend that likes to lie to their face. So, I have learned that I must be true to myself first, then present the steaming pile of goat nipples that is my character to Them.
I do sin, and I have oftentimes found that when I am sinning I enjoy it. But when I am done sinning I am often ashamed of what I have done.

For my sins and my character, I have GRACE afforded to me if I ask with a contrite heart.

It's like paying rent in an apartment complex. You have a five-day grace period. It doesn't mean you NEVER have to pay rent, you still do, just at a later date.
Thing is, with Christianity, you are to pass grace, mercy, love as it was afforded to you (for your trangsression against God), onto others (for their transgressions against you).
Not meaning I want to be free to sin, sin, sin. I just want to be free to be me without the fear of fire and brimstone.

Here's what I believe Sugar. I believe "Jesus Christ" was an icon modelled after the Messiah foretold in Jewish Scriptures. I believe the conclave of individuals whom you call "God" and I call YAHWEH played a major role in your being put here on this Earth. They love you more than your parents, friends and significant others, with a fanatical love to the point where they know how many hairs you have on your body. An individual who loves that much (moreover three individuals who love that much) did not destroy the being most know as "Satan" even after all the donkeyness he has done and will do without remorse. The Messiah has spoken that ALL things will be made new, the former things will pass away.
It is ultimately then, a choice whether or not you wish to keep the old personality/life you've had the chance to live. I've surrendered my old life to get a new one, my old knowledge to obtain new knowledge I can use with management.
My God is a collective of Mercy and Love, were They to end my life, it would be theirs to end. With the knowledge They've given me, I've asked myself many times, "Is fire and brimstone in any way equivalent with Mercy?"
The answer is always no.
Love and Mercy is not threatening your child with fire and brimstone because they did or do something you don't like. Especially if they don't have your faculties. Love and Mercy (as YAHWEH has taught me) is reprimand, forgiveness, empathy and deterrence, not death.
Funny thing is this, those who have the fear of fire and brimstone DO NOT stop and take the time to try and figure this out.
"Why am I being threatened with fire and brimstone by a God of Love and Mercy who died even for His enemies?"
Some things just don't add up about that.

Parietal 03, What is Yahweh? I am a Christian and have been one my entire life but I am not close minded to any other religions. As a matter of fact I am really curious about what other people believe and why. Since we're talking. I have an issue that I have been dealing with and I hope you might be able to just give me your thoughts on it. I believe in God and I believe in the trinity, but what I've been fighting with lately is the whole "church scene". Why can't I worship God at home? Why do I have to go Sunday after Sunday and listen to a man who is a human and has also fallen short of the glory of God himself, tell me how to live my life? I just don't want to live a life walking on eggshells for fear of going to hell. Not meaning I want to be free to sin, sin, sin. I just want to be free to be me without the fear of fire and brimstone.

Hi Sugar may be this will help.

Matthew 6:5-7 (King James Version)
5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

A synagogue is the Jewish version of a church building.
I would say when you find a Church that does not have its hand out looking for money you are close to finding a Church.
When you find a Church that says don't bring your tithes to us give it to someone less fortunate than yourself. Then you have found a Church. If you ever find it please post it here I just might come and see it.

It is said that "YAHWEH" is the phonetic pronounciation of the name given to Moses by the being in the burning bush. Before that point, there was no name for that specific being upon the lips of men other than (loose translations) "Lord/Sovereign Lord", "God" "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." This was the being that sent Moses to lead the Hebrews out of the land of Kem (Egypt). "Yahweh" was the name given to validate the authority that sent Moses.


I do not know. As a matter of fact I ask that very same question to Christians. According to the Bible, Christ never slept in the Temple. He slept in people's homes. In his parables, he made it a point to reference one's place of residence as the point where HIS work was to be carried out. Look at The Good Samaritian for example. The travelling Samaritian put the man up at an inn, not in a temple.
Throughout/within the accounts the Bible gives, the word "church" is used in reference to people. Today it is used to reference buildings.


You don't have to, but as a child especially in THIS society you are often MADE to go, because your parents don't 'want to look bad.' As an adult, you don't have to go, but you are often (if not aloud, silently) castigated because of your choice to spend worship time alone, and fellowship time outside of walls.
I know this all to well. I will speak from my experience. I have a relationship with my God. A love-based relationship. The first thing one ought to do in a love-based relationship is BE SINCERE. Nobody (and few there be if any) enjoys the company of a friend that likes to lie to their face. So, I have learned that I must be true to myself first, then present the steaming pile of goat nipples that is my character to Them.
I do sin, and I have oftentimes found that when I am sinning I enjoy it. But when I am done sinning I am often ashamed of what I have done.

For my sins and my character, I have GRACE afforded to me if I ask with a contrite heart.

It's like paying rent in an apartment complex. You have a five-day grace period. It doesn't mean you NEVER have to pay rent, you still do, just at a later date.
Thing is, with Christianity, you are to pass grace, mercy, love as it was afforded to you (for your trangsression against God), onto others (for their transgressions against you).

Here's what I believe Sugar. I believe "Jesus Christ" was an icon modelled after the Messiah foretold in Jewish Scriptures. I believe the conclave of individuals whom you call "God" and I call YAHWEH played a major role in your being put here on this Earth. They love you more than your parents, friends and significant others, with a fanatical love to the point where they know how many hairs you have on your body. An individual who loves that much (moreover three individuals who love that much) did not destroy the being most know as "Satan" even after all the donkeyness he has done and will do without remorse. The Messiah has spoken that ALL things will be made new, the former things will pass away.
It is ultimately then, a choice whether or not you wish to keep the old personality/life you've had the chance to live. I've surrendered my old life to get a new one, my old knowledge to obtain new knowledge I can use with management.
My God is a collective of Mercy and Love, were They to end my life, it would be theirs to end. With the knowledge They've given me, I've asked myself many times, "Is fire and brimstone in any way equivalent with Mercy?"
The answer is always no.
Love and Mercy is not threatening your child with fire and brimstone because they did or do something you don't like. Especially if they don't have your faculties. Love and Mercy (as YAHWEH has taught me) is reprimand, forgiveness, empathy and deterrence, not death.
Funny thing is this, those who have the fear of fire and brimstone DO NOT stop and take the time to try and figure this out.
"Why am I being threatened with fire and brimstone by a God of Love and Mercy who died even for His enemies?"
Some things just don't add up about that.


1 of the 3 if it was 3.

Here is something for Sugar and anyone else about another religion.

“It is said that all the teachings of the Buddha are contained in this mantra: Om Mani Padme Hum can not really be translated into a simple phrase or sentence. “

http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/meaning-of-om-mani-padme-hung.htm

(I am listening to it right now, wish I could share it with you all. "Om Mani Padme Hum” My x sister-in-law got it for me when she took her son to Tibet to climb Mt. Everest.
For all you other Jerry Springer fans. Yes that’s right my x sister-in-law. We are still friends and I am still good friends with my X wife as well. Nothing romantic more like a sister.)

Kind of like "The word is God"/The Creator. Then there is "The Bible is the word of God/The Creator".


This is a good link as well if you want to understand other religions.
http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/meaning-of-om-mani-padme-hung.htm#Meaning

Not the one I listen to most of the time. I have that on a CD and don't know how to share over the net. But here is one I found here on the net.
http://www.buddhanet.net/mp3/Om%20Mani%20Padme%20Hum01.mp3

I like to listen to this 1 as well
http://www.buddhanet.net/r_audio/metta56.ram

If you want to know what it means
http://www.buddhanet.net/chant-metta.htm

All the music link cane from here.
http://www.buddhanet.net/audio-chant.htm

Go to my thread
Look at what I found.
Did I find a humdinger

Parietal 03, Thanks so much for the information and the insight. I am truly struggling with the whole church thing and I'm not sure why. Something is not sitting well in my spirit. The only thing I know for sure is that I love my God with all my heart and I trust in his word and I feel him in my spirit. So it is not him that I am having a problem with. I pray daily and I know without a doubt that he will see me through. But for some strange reason just lately I have been becoming rebellious against my church. Just recently my Pastor (who has a television ministry) told the people who were watching that if they didn't send an offering to the church that was like stealing. Stealing the word and reaping the benefits of his message but not paying for it. He even went so far as to call them "leaches" because they were watching him and not sending in any money. I was totally offended by this and felt bad that I had told people to make sure they watch on Sunday. I don't know. I guess I will have to pray and ask God for direction because I can feel myself pulling farther and farther away from the Church.

Thank you Vicky also. I will read the links that you provided.

Can't be done! The only "proof" that the Bible is the word of God is the Bible itself.

CG, gatta disagree with you on this one buddy. The bible never says or implies that it is the Word of God. Jn 1:1 say that the word of God exsisted from the beginning: before the heathen catholics put those scripts and letters together. Paul said that the new testiment is not in writting. It is a spiritual thing written in the hearts of all men.

I just remembered this.

Christianity is a very good religion, Christians should try it some time.

I think By Mahatma Gandhi

CG, gatta disagree with you on this one buddy. The bible never says or implies that it is the Word of God. Jn 1:1 say that the word of God exsisted from the beginning: before the heathen catholics put those scripts and letters together. Paul said that the new testiment is not in writting. It is a spiritual thing written in the hearts of all men.

May have never said it but it definitely implies it! Particularly in the Old Testament where God gives his laws. Also, the Word of God can mean Jesus as well. So when the Bible says, the Word of God was from the beginning it could be talking about Jesus.

Be all that as it may, the Christian has adopted the Book as the Word of God. So for him, it is! :)

Parietal 03, Thanks so much for the information and the insight. I am truly struggling with the whole church thing and I'm not sure why. Something is not sitting well in my spirit. The only thing I know for sure is that I love my God with all my heart and I trust in his word and I feel him in my spirit. So it is not him that I am having a problem with. I pray daily and I know without a doubt that he will see me through. But for some strange reason just lately I have been becoming rebellious against my church. Just recently my Pastor (who has a television ministry) told the people who were watching that if they didn't send an offering to the church that was like stealing. Stealing the word and reaping the benefits of his message but not paying for it. He even went so far as to call them "leaches" because they were watching him and not sending in any money. I was totally offended by this and felt bad that I had told people to make sure they watch on Sunday. I don't know. I guess I will have to pray and ask God for direction because I can feel myself pulling farther and farther away from the Church.

Thank you Vicky also. I will read the links that you provided.

HHHMmm a man of greed oops sorry ment say a man of God/the Creator saying this.
Seems you would be betteroff in the closet if you ask me. Please remember the Creator knows what is in your heart. The Creator knew this before mankind was created.

Contact this preacher Let him know that you won't be giving your money to the church anymore because there is a needy family that you are going to give your tithes to.
Would love to hear his responce.

Parietal 03, Thanks so much for the information and the insight. I am truly struggling with the whole church thing and I'm not sure why. Something is not sitting well in my spirit. The only thing I know for sure is that I love my God with all my heart and I trust in his word and I feel him in my spirit. So it is not him that I am having a problem with. I pray daily and I know without a doubt that he will see me through. But for some strange reason just lately I have been becoming rebellious against my church. Just recently my Pastor (who has a television ministry) told the people who were watching that if they didn't send an offering to the church that was like stealing. Stealing the word and reaping the benefits of his message but not paying for it. He even went so far as to call them "leaches" because they were watching him and not sending in any money. I was totally offended by this and felt bad that I had told people to make sure they watch on Sunday. I don't know. I guess I will have to pray and ask God for direction because I can feel myself pulling farther and farther away from the Church.

Thank you Vicky also. I will read the links that you provided.

Sounds like you are ready to go on to the Second Step in the Journey http://www.bahamasissues.com/showthread.php?t=1425 Read the first post there, number 1

CG Thanks,

I know his response would be "bring all your tithes into the store house". That is what they stand on. I have a huge problem with the fact that they put such a big emphasis on tithes being money. If I remember correctly, to tithe is to give. Not just money but clothes, food, your time, whatever you have to give. One Sunday one of our associate ministers challenged people to write a check on faith. He kept pressing and pressing about how God would return the money 10 fold if we just stepped out on faith. Well come to find out, people did write the checks and that was the biggest month of returned checks our church has ever seen. I just have to stand on the fact that God does know my heart and he will see me through this time of confusion.