....... I just have to stand on the fact that God does know my heart and he will see me through this time of confusion.

I have no doubt about that. But the answer might be long in coming. If it is, don't allow yourself to drift into a place of indifference, where the heart and soul can become cold. I know many who have become disenchanted with the Church, and some with the Christian faith, some with God! Meny will not come back. They became cold!

Consider this time as a time of Spiritual "flu!" We have the bodily flu and we have to take our medicine until we are well again. When one has the Spiritual flu, one has to take medicine too! A daily dose of the Bible. Prayer. Fellowship with others who maybe experiencing the same thing. Find people who can give you wise counsel. That is what I would prescribe! This too shall pass. God will open a door! Keep your eyes open so that you will be able to see it when it happens! Above all, keep Spiritually warm!

CG,
Thank you for your wisdom. I will take heed. I never thought that I could "fall out of love" with the church. I will take my "medicine" so that I can find my own way back to where I'm suppose to be. Thanks again.

Sounds like you are ready to go on to the Second Step in the Journey http://www.bahamasissues.com/showthread.php?t=1425 Read the first post there, number 1


CG,

I read the "journey" and it is truly fascinating. I believe that is where I'm headed. Where did you get this information I would love to share it with others in my family and at my church. However, "N" says, "follows the voice of the truth wherever it may be found", with all these different religions and beliefs, how do we know what the truth is? If I'm a firm believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, do I stand on that as the truth and then start the second half of my journey? Or do I research other religions and try to figure out what they believe to be the truth?

Nothing wrong with Paul he just is not Christ. His writing are just that his writings. I have no problem with those that want to follow Paul. But don't tell me I should just because his writing are in the Bible.
I am not being negative with you Great Demos. It’s not about pleasing me it’s about following the rules that they profess to follow.
He with out sin cast the first stone.
Take the dirt out of your eye before you try to take the spec out of someone else’s.
Treat other as you your self want to be treated.
So then what you are saying is I should do as they tell me no matter how wrong I see it to be?? I should let them pick and choose which rules in the Bible I should follow and I should not pick and choose the rules for my self???
I should do as they tell me to do because they claim to follow the Bible when in fact they do not???



Sorry Great Demos it will never happen. I will not let Christians condemn me because when they do they have not taken the dirt out of their eye first. I will not let then cast stones of condemnation at me and say nothing. I will not let them treat me differently than they them selves want to be treated.
When I say I in the above paragraph I mean all who they would be outcast just because they are different. This is not said with any hostility, as I know you can't see emotion in text.
:cutie:

I een know son, and maybe I grew up or live under a rock or something, but these kinds of Christians you and Parietal seem to be talking about, I haven't encountered many of them. Yes, as I have said before, even in my church I see persons acting/carrying on unChristlike (or at least what I percieve to be unChristlike). But I usually ignore them so completely, its like they become invisible. They could probably sense in their spirit that they cannot or should not confront me with foolishness or unGodliness!

Also, as I have said before, it could well be that these are the same kinds of people who Christ Himself had great problems with, the Scribes and Pharisees and religious leaders of the day. The same people who told Him they performed miracles in His name. He rejected them ......."Depart from me, I never knew you" He told them.

Normally, I can't see why any man or woman of God should tell you to do things that are wrong or that you know or believe to be wrong! No one should obey such persons! I would not and I don't expect you to!

CG Thanks,

I know his response would be "bring all your tithes into the store house". That is what they stand on. I have a huge problem with the fact that they put such a big emphasis on tithes being money. If I remember correctly, to tithe is to give. Not just money but clothes, food, your time, whatever you have to give. One Sunday one of our associate ministers challenged people to write a check on faith. He kept pressing and pressing about how God would return the money 10 fold if we just stepped out on faith. Well come to find out, people did write the checks and that was the biggest month of returned checks our church has ever seen. I just have to stand on the fact that God does know my heart and he will see me through this time of confusion.

It's like the story of the footprints in the sand.

Person was walking with the Creator and asked the Creator why when my life was so hard my faith so weak you abandoned me? Just look at the footprints of my life. See how there were 2 sets when you walked with me and only one set when you abandoned me. The Creator said no that is when I carried you.

I know the time when I was carried for many years. I know I was carried over this holiday season. I was carried on Jan 26 when I got my only photos with my Mom Dad and I together. With me dressed totally enfem (as commonly called when a transgender m to f dresses to the 9s.) Possibly the last photos we will have together. My Dad came to the computer where I was downloading them and said as soon as you can print a big one for me. I was not just carried but I was flown up high. At that moment footprints in the sand were trivial.

I een know son, By this you deny me my right to my life. Look at my photo and call her son.(see below) You could have said I een know child. Again there is no hostility in my heart. and maybe I grew up or live under a rock or something, but these kinds of Christians you and Parietal seem to be talking about, I haven't encountered many of them. By your own words you are one of them.
You agree with laws that tell people they can't have legal rights together just because they don't fit your faith. A faith that teaches that you should treat others, as you yourself want to be treated. I asked how would you feel if you were denied access to the person you lived with and loved for years. You said you would not like it. But you would deny that access to another because they don't fit you religious views because they are the same sex.
Said with great sorrow in my heart that you can’t see yourself the mirror.
Yes, as I have said before, even in my church I see persons acting/carrying on unChristlike (or at least what I percieve to be unChristlike). But I usually ignore them so completely, its like they become invisible. They could probably sense in their spirit that they cannot or should not confront me with foolishness or unGodliness!

Also, as I have said before, it could well be that these are the same kinds of people who Christ Himself had great problems with, the Scribes and Pharisees and religious leaders of the day. The same people who told Him they performed miracles in His name. He rejected them ......."Depart from me, I never knew you" He told them.

Normally, I can't see why any man or woman of God should tell you to do things that are wrong or that you know of believe to be wrong! No one should obey such persons! I would not and I don't expect you to!

I een know son, and maybe I grew up or live under a rock or something,
Perhaps. The Christ of the Bible did say that he would build his church upon a rock. It seems many professed Christians have decided to do the same: build Churches upon rocks/concrete blocks. But now I ask you, when a vehicle is put upon blocks, what does that mean?

In the words of Kirk Franklin and The Family, "Oh yeah, we gat the church we een going nowhere."
This could be the problem as to why you've never met any of the people we speak of. I know from experience that once one is indoctrinate with Church Denominational Theology, it is EXTREMELY difficult for one to see anything other than through the rose-colored spectacles of said theology.
but these kinds of Christians you and Parietal seem to be talking about, I haven't encountered many of them. Yes, as I have said before, even in my church I see persons acting/carrying on unChristlike (or at least what I percieve to be unChristlike).
I sincerely believe you. You've never heard of a pastor who got his degree/license to preach fom an institute that also teaches divination. Have you ever heard of a pastor who was RUN OUT/deported fromTexas by the FBI for his illicit actions? This same pastor is the brother-in-law of the President of the Conference of a Denomination I used to be a hardcore member of. And you know something, that information I just gave out, was never told to anyone in our denomination.
This same pastor who was deported from Texas, is now a Marriage Counsellor. This same pastor told my mother and father to separate and/or get a divorce. This same pastor supported my mother when she neglected us for 14 days. This same pastor supported my mother when she had a restraining order taken out on me. This same pastor did not come to my sister's rescue (rather took my mother's side) when during Child Abuse Month (no less) my mother hit my sister in her mouth with a telephone receiver.
No, Demos. I don't think you see things like this at all. My conclusion is it is because you see things "their" way.
But I usually ignore them so completely, its like they become invisible. They could probably sense in their spirit that they cannot or should not confront me with foolishness or unGodliness! Attacks on my sister and or my family by people who think they know me/my family will NEVER be ignored, moreover tolerated.

Also, as I have said before, it could well be that these are the same kinds of people who Christ Himself had great problems with, the Scribes and Pharisees and religious leaders of the day. The same people who told Him they performed miracles in His name. He rejected them ......."Depart from me, I never knew you" He told them.

Normally, I can't see why any man or woman of God should tell you to do things that are wrong or that you know of believe to be wrong! No one should obey such persons! I would not and I don't expect you to!

Then I believe that if you knew my entire story, you would understand why I speak out, even if only on an e-forum. No matter what anyone's expectations are of me Demos, my expectations for myself are ten times amplified. No matter how much anyone scrutinizes me, my self-scrutiny is amplified ten-times over.

I read the "journey" and it is truly fascinating.
Thank you!

I believe that is where I'm headed.
This might well be the case. Thousands are on the Journey - it is a shame they get so little support.

Where did you get this information I would love to share it with others in my family and at my church.
I was a teacher of religion for a long time. As a result, I researched religion. I was able to talk to a number of great religious thinkers and leaders. The Second Step of the Journey is well known, in some quarters. What you read was only a part of a larger paper that I wrote and used in my classes to stimulate conversation etc. I wrote it because I found that many of the students had lost their faith, or so they thought. The fact was many were just stuck! They needed to look at their faith in a light that was not being taught to them in their Church, Temple or whatever was the case. It is not just the Christian who needs this. Religions, all kinds, are in turmoil all over the world.

However, "N" says, "follows the voice of the truth wherever it may be found", with all these different religions and beliefs, how do we know what the truth is?
That is the question. What is truth? Truth is not something that is confined to one religion. For example if Jesus said "Love one another." And The Buddha, 500 years before, said "Love one another" then, that is a truth that transcends any religion. There are many other truths that can be found in common. Truth does not "belong" to any one group.

I usually say that truth does not hurt others, or the believer. There was an old saying among the Alaskan Gold miners, when they were asked by new miners where the gold was they answered - "Gold is where you find it!" We can also say - "Truth is where you find it!"

If I'm a firm believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, do I stand on that as the truth and then start the second half of my journey?
Yes! I know many Christians that have done just that. I know of Christians who have deepened their relationship with Christ and with mankind. They no longer follow Christ because they have to or they will go to hell. They follow Christ because want to. They are freed from their religion only to enter it from a new understanding. They have been released from fear, from the domination of others and they shine with a "light" that can't be extinguished. They are Christians as a Spiritual beings should be. I wrote a story about two such men http://www.bahamasissues.com/showthread.php?t=507 Part 2 is on the same thread at number 9 posting.

One day I will write about my meeting with Mother Teresa. Now, there was a light! There was a person who understood the journey and she was a Christian who remained one all her life.

Or do I research other religions and try to figure out what they believe to be the truth?
Yes, do that too. What you want to understand is that there is a Spiritual brotherhood of mankind. We all share the same spirit, but we express it differently. There is no need to fear another Religion when it is practiced correctly.

Sometimes, one can get a clearer picture of ones own faith by seeing how peoples, of other faiths, handle the mystery that is life and death. The thing I would tell you is to take from other faiths what you can use - leave the rest.

God has been around for a long, long time - long before Christianity was thought about, long before Buddhism was thought about - in fact, so far in the distant past that we have lost all records that might have been. There are only some tantalizing hints here and there. I would go as far as to say that he has "talked" to many different peoples, in many different voices. We limit him to this religion or that one, but he is not limited.

Most of us see our religion in a very narrow perspective. We put God in a box that serves our own selfish interests.(I am thinking about those Pastors you mentioned who seemed money mad!) But God is VAST! He refuses to be put in a box of any kind! He is spread over time, and the universe like a vast warming, comforting, blanket! Get to know this aspect of God. Religion can take you only so far. The Journey takes you on.

Suger truth is inspired by the Creator to all religions.
CG is a good person to talk with. I say he is one of the 3( if it was only 3) refering to the 3 wise men.

If you have questions ask we will all try to help.

CG,

You are a wealth of knowledge and a light to my darkness. Thank you so much for your inspiration. I will go forth into this journey with an open mind and an open heart.

Vicky, thank you for your support. I have read many posts of yours and I believe you are in search of the truth as well. Let us take the journey together.

Peace be unto you both.

CG,

You are a wealth of knowledge and a light to my darkness. Thank you so much for your inspiration. I will go forth into this journey with an open mind and an open heart.

Vicky, thank you for your support. I have read many posts of yours and I believe you are in search of the truth as well. Let us take the journey together.

Peace be unto you both.

Hi Sugar I would like that very much we can learn from each other and discover new things.

Sorry I did not responed sooner, had a slight mishap. Spilled water on my laptop, a set back for sure. I am on my old old computer Pentium II iiiiiiiittttt''''ssss ssssooooo ssssssllloooooowwww. But I can still listen to Hum Mani Padma Om.

Sorry I did not responed sooner, had a slight mishap. Spilled water on my laptop, a set back for sure.
Nah how you manage that?

Nah how you manage that?

My wife and I are staying at my Dads look after him. We are sleeping on an air mattress. I got a slow leak so using soapy water to look for the leak. My granddaughter was being thoughtful and rested a glass of water on the desk next to the laptop. Had the mattress up on it's side and next thing it sliped out of my hands bumped the glass of water and splash laptop wet.

Was it plugged in at the time?

Was it plugged in at the time?

Unforutunatly yes. I have sent it off already its covered under warranty and gaurd protection. If the mother board is messed up will have to pay for that.