Question To You Rory:
Can you stand in front of the parents of the babies killed by U.S. bombs and tell them that their children were part of the necessary "Collateral Damage" for the U.S. to acheive what they want?

Another Question:
If it was another country, for example Iran that chose to "reconstruct" Iraq, would you sit there and support them just as you do America now? I know for sure that I would be just as violently opposed to their occupation as I am opposed to America's.

Here is a third one:
If The Bahamas was invaded today by the nation that you hate the most (as in most Iraqi's case) to remove our government and "reconstruct" us. Even if you hated the government that they come to remove, wouldn't you fight the occupiers? Not for the sake of the ousted government but for the sake of freedom for you and your country?

to me the real issue with the democratic voice against the war in iraq, was to make it difficult for george bush to win his re-election.
the congress overwhelmingly supported the war, including john kerry!
then he changed his mind....
then he said he was for the war before he voted against it!

talk about lack of vision,he should have known that soft money corps like haliburton were going to get corporate slush money..he just wanted his company to get the slush money john kerry did.

the war in iraq is what it is...THE COST OF FREEDOM!
especially in a country, which has never experienced true democracy.

you cant deny, that sadam hussien alone caused his country to be at war...he could have stepped down, he knew they were comming, instead he made a mess of it....andin the meantime cause more chaos...he knew they got at him before, he knew the signs..HE WANTED A BLOODY MESS!
and he thought the u.s. would back away without finding him...which wasnt the case,and the u.s. has proved its in for the long haul..for freedom and terrorism!
he broke every sanction the u.n imposed on him after the first iraq u.s. war...
and in the age of terrosism, the u.s. should leave a volatile dictator in power with a chip on his shoulder, along with fundamentalist backing him, and the money to boot?

do you think for one second, if saddam had the power he would have not used it to attack the u.s. or an ally...if you think he wouldnt then you are mad!
MAD MAD MAD!!
:confused:

just wanted us to remember the facts!
:D

Freedom figher is not a freedom fighter. to others out there reading this, he is pro terrorist.


it all depends on what the powers call it!
:voodoo:

OK, moving along.

Democracy means: “…rule by the people…”

Who are these people?

Are they: 1) the government or citizens of another country? Or,
2) the citizens of the country in question and the citizens of that country and only they alone?

If you choose 2 then you are right, if you choose 1 or don’t know, then you should not read any further.

Now, let’s look at the Iraqi elections. This election will go ahead in spite insurgency, of cost the insurgency will not stop an artificial reality rule and order, but this election determination is artificial, formalities or official procedures for the oil business will be the only reality but rule and order is unrealistic. Artificial to the fact of rule and order. (to postpone the elections makes just as much sense as to go on with the election, so if the election is to happen then let it go on anyway, the only difference it will make is for it to get more tougher for the Iraqis, Iraqi officials, the US administration and its elite hawks).

For those of you who are looking for this ceremony to defeat the insurgency, it is not realistic, it is no magic wand. This election will not make any difference for a long, long time and for millions and millions of people alive today including George Bush himself; he will not see much of his intention from this in his days.

Democracy will take place and the election will take place because the reality is simply intention, emotions, anybody who can put a mark on paper, what else! But it is to bad it have no magic to it, but rather it requires the mind of the man and his cooperation, and that will not happen for a long, long time.

Election is physical but there is no magic to it, simple, but so.

Always less than half of the citizens vote, and the half that do not vote are aware of the intelligence that those who are appointed or selected as candidate will make no difference or will make more of a mess when elected, so they don’t vote.

The other half or quarter that vote do so out of ignorance, almost 70% of these people who vote have very little or no intelligent facts about the party or the candidate and are not capable of making an intelligent decision, but rather mostly out of agitation and material wants. It is this state that we have promoted and it is this state that represents democracy. It is this lesser intelligent bundle of people that the government says “the people have spoken” and now we know who these people are, and we know now why things are worsen and it get even worse than they are each time.

We can allow democracy to continue in this path or we can upgrade or update it to the other level so that human values and principles are always the real agenda. Real democracy allows the people to choose candidates for election rather than have the candidates selected and dictated by a mafia body of elites. Real democracy informs the people on tangible intelligence and keep them informed. Real democracy depends on real intelligence and a progressive human race of people. Real democracy do not hurdle the people like cattle’s or machines or slaves or like ants. Real democracy allows the people to rule, real democracy respects its people, real democracy intellectualizes its people and respectfully gives way to the people to vote the candidate of choices to power.

So, then, lets go back to Iraq.
None of the above is happening in Iraq, the US is dictating the power of the people and the factions that pleases the US is promoted by this administration propaganda upheaval will, so then how can it work, it cant.
First: the election in Iraq is a direct conflict of war in the Middle East.
Secondly: a direct conflict between the Iraqi Sunni Moslems and the Iraqi Shiites Moslems.
Thirdly: this elections victory is a direct power for Iran to rule Iraq or a possible second round of war or conflict between the Iraqi Shiite Moslems and the Iranian Shiite Moslems (more on this later).

The US administration knows that there is no real calm or pretty exit from Iraq, other wise they would have said how a long time ago. There is no out without further turmoil, but they will leave whenever they choose, whenever it is in the best of their interest, is it not always this way? Iraq was an emotional thing for George Bush and he put himself and the American people in a trap that only he along is left to get out. And if he gets out he earns his praise, if he don’t, then there is no one else but Bush to blame.

From an observer point of view, I say without bias judgment that so far the insurgents seem to know what they are doing, so far the insurgents seem to be steering the car down the very road that Bush is making, and it’s a car going down a road of civil war between the Sunnis and Shiites. Thanks to stubborn George Bush who is making this possible, the only difference this election will make is the kind of war that is to be unleashed on the battle field.

Freedom figher is not a freedom fighter. to others out there reading this, he is pro terrorist.

A "pro" terrorist? LOL. That's funny.
It's really funny how you are so much like the American Govenrment that you seemingly worship. Anybody who is not supportive of your opinion is labeled as a "terrorist". If sharing my opinion and my view on things that i have obtaines by seeking, analyzing and researching informaiton in the topic at hand, in other words having and EDUCATED STANDPOINT is an act of terrorism, then i admit a terrorist I am. Wanna bomb me?
You failed to answer my questions, instead you decided to attempt to ternish my name with a cliche term. Shgame on you.

Now, to the elections. We must realize that the elections are not at all being held for the sake of the iraqi people. They are being held for the following:
1. The American Corporations
2. The American Government
3 The Brainwashed and Blindfolded supporters of this war who will consider this election a sign of success for this conflict and therfore grant and continue to grant their support to the bloodthirsty leaders hwo initiated and supported the war.

FF

Now, to remember the old Hussien elections. We must realize that the elections are not at all being held for the sake of the iraqi people. They are being held for the following:
1. The Saddam Corporations
2. The Bathist Regime dictatorial Government
3 The Evil, Cruel, Brainwashed and Blindfolded supporters of the oppressed region who will consider this election a sign of success for this disgusting show and tell regime and therfore grant and continue to grant their support to the bloodthirsty leaders who slaughtered kurdish nationals, invaded kuwait, and surpressed intelectual iraqi leaders.

"The truth"


i just fixed a few things just for us to remeber the truth FF!
:cheers:

Though I deeply frown on the situation in Iraq, I have to say that Rory may have hit the nail on the head about the lack of sex accounting for the anger of the leaders and combatants in the Iraqi conflict. (Even though most sexually-repressed people would probably consider his statement a bit strange, it's nothing but the truth)

I was joking about a similar situation with a friend the other day that instead of the police worrying about running after the violent offenders in Nassau, all that they need to do is pair them up with a gal who will keep them inside the house all day and night with some good island punany. You can't get in trouble when a sweet island gal grabs hold of ya! The worse part about the situation is that when these guys get put in jail they have no access to a woman. No wonder they come out worse! *LOL*

*Warning liberal statement coming up*
The leaders of ALL sides (cause there are more than TWO sides) in this conflict in Iraq need to be locked in a compound for a month with some ganja and at least two gals for each guy. Problem solved.
:jawdroop:

Tell me I lie.

I am glad I don't have your nerve in my tooth!

The 25 million the US pledged was generous at the time, a time when the world did not know the extent of the catastrophe. Now the US has given more, it has an Air Craft Carrier in the area that is getting relief to areas that no one else can reach.

I wonder what the terrorists that you support so strongly are doing to help those in South East Asia? Probably nothing. There are to busy killing the innocent. One would think that the least they could do is to stop their bombing attacks so that the US and others could release men to help save lives.

Those terrorists that you support think of no one but themselves. At least the US and others are trying to help, while your friends fatten themselves on the blood of the innocent.


It depends on what word or thought you choose to express your anger, and the way you choose to view it or who you choose to label it for you.
I use the word activist and I choose myself to label the insurgency activism.
You use the word Terrorist because you have chosen someone else to label the insurgency for you, either way its our rights.
Both side is killing for their purpose and the opportunity to rule the human mind.
The most civilize will relent.
There is nothing you or I or anyone can do about it.
I wonder what you will label the Bahamians when we are one day invaded and stand to fight for who we choose to rule!!!!!!!
I stick to my guns like George Bush and you stick to yours and we go on as we are.
But remember this:
Without war you can not activate insurgency.
Without discontentment or unfairness you can not activate activism.

You support one side. thats OK I have no problem with that
I support NO SIDE I SUPPORT BALANCE and I think that would be OK, but you have a BIG PROBLEM WITH THAT, so it is.
With consensus you have balance or the road towards it, “balance it is, peter not a bit better than paul”.

Though I deeply frown on the situation in Iraq, I have to say that Rory may have hit the nail on the head about the lack of sex accounting for the anger of the leaders and combatants in the Iraqi conflict. (Even though most sexually-repressed people would probably consider his statement a bit strange, it's nothing but the truth)

I was joking about a similar situation with a friend the other day that instead of the police worrying about running after the violent offenders in Nassau, all that they need to do is pair them up with a gal who will keep them inside the house all day and night with some good island punany. You can't get in trouble when a sweet island gal grabs hold of ya! The worse part about the situation is that when these guys get put in jail they have no access to a woman. No wonder they come out worse! *LOL*

*Warning liberal statement coming up*
The leaders of ALL sides (cause there are more than TWO sides) in this conflict in Iraq need to be locked in a compound for a month with some ganja and at least two gals for each guy. Problem solved.
:jawdroop:

Tell me I lie.


You didn’t lie.

The Iraq war wasn’t suppose to look like this and it wasn’t suppose to go this way, so what happen, how could it have turned out this way?

Of all the cards that were in the deck of cards there were three cards in the deck of cards that were not there, these three cards were sympathy, respect and fear. Because these cards were not the coalitions could not play these cards.

In the arsenal of high technological weaponry in the coalition arsenal of weaponry there were three weapons that were not there, patience, intelligence and clarity. Because these weapons were not in the arsenal they could not be used.

Look at the insurgency and we can see why they are doing so well they have the three cards in deck of cards while the US have all the other players in the deck. Further more the insurgency has the three weapons that the coalition never had and still don’t and they have even found a way to stop even the heaviest land vehicle the best piece of weaponry in the coalition arsenal the Bradley. I don’t need to say any more on this.

At the point of the election in Iraq, George Bush has one of two options to consider and he will be very wise to make this the issued at the time of inauguration and that is:

1. Announce victory at the level of defeat. By doing so the superpower will save itself the embarrassment of further exhausting itself of ideas that is making the messy mess messier. Before the war in Iraq Bush instilled sympathy, during the quick overthrowing of the governments he instilled fear and respect into the Iraqis and into Saddam military, but he managed to lose it at the level of stubbornness and foolish decisions a trend that the insurgents are now banking on. Or,

2. Bush can concede defeat at the level of defeat where it is now and walk away with a little bloody nose and a little bit of respect that remains. Of cause this respect will not come from its supporters but rather from critics like myself, and it would have gained new friends, at least real intelligent friends that really tried to save it from this end.

If the superpower want to win it must have the only kind of support that it takes to win. As for now the insurgents have the cards from the deck of cards and the weapons in their arsenal of weaponry that it takes to win. Even if we can agree that it takes fear to win, then if that is what it takes to win, then, that is what it takes to win.

“Evil” Corporations – not Hollywood – Help Tsunami Victims
by Bonnie Chernin Rogoff
03 January 2005...


Now we have evidence that those of you who believe every word of the US is turning out not only to be propaganda but nothing more than paid propaganda. Why have you chosen to be deceived by people who hire and those who are hired especially to lie to you?

It is too bad that most of you ca not decipher what is right and wrong what corroborate the propaganda and proves it wrong.. If it is because you like being told what you want to hear, then there is nothing that can help restore your virtues or common sense, besides that, how do you expect anyone to take serious your anger or your postings?

The president prides himself on being a pig-headed guy. He is determined to win in Iraq even if he is not winning in Iraq.

So get ready for a Mohammedan mountain of spin defining victory down. Come what may - civil war over oil, Iranian-style fatwas du jour or men on prayer rugs reciting the Koran all day on the Iraqi TV network our own geniuses created - this administration will call it a triumph.

Even for a White House steeped in hooey, it's a challenge. President Bush will have to emulate the parsing and prevaricating he disdained in his predecessor: It depends on what the meaning of the word "win" is.

The president's still got a paper bag over his head, claiming that the daily horrors out of Iraq reflect just a few soreheads standing in the way of a glorious democracy, even though his commander of ground forces there concedes that the areas where more than half of Iraqis live are not secure enough for them to vote - an acknowledgment that the insurgency is resilient and growing. It's like saying Montana and North Dakota are safe to vote, but New York, Philadelphia and L.A. are not. What's a little disenfranchisement among friends?

"I know it's hard, but it's hard for a reason," Mr. Bush said on Friday, a day after seven G.I.'s and two marines died. "And the reason it's hard is because there are a handful of folks who fear freedom." If it's just a handful, how come it's so hard?

Then the president added: "And I look at the elections as a - as a - you know, as a - as - as a historical marker for our Iraq policy."

Well, that's clear. Mr. Bush is huddled in his bubble, but he's in a pickle. The administration that had no plan for what to do with Iraq when it got it, now has no plan for getting out.

The mood in Washington about our misadventure seemed to grow darker last week, maybe because lawmakers were back after visiting with their increasingly worried constituents and - even more alarming - visiting Iraq, where you still can't drive from the Baghdad airport to the Green Zone without fearing for your life.

"It's going to be ugly," Joe Biden told Charlie Rose about the election.

The arrogant Bush war council never admits a mistake. Paul Wolfowitz, a walking mistake, said on Friday he's been asked to remain in the administration. But the "idealists," as the myopic dunderheads think of themselves, are obviously worried enough, now that Mr. Bush is safely re-elected, to let a little reality seep in. Rummy tapped a respected retired four-star general to go to Iraq this week for an open-ended review of the entire military meshugas.

Mr. Wolfowitz, who devised the debacle in Iraq, is kept on, while Brent Scowcroft, Poppy Bush's lieutenant who warned Junior not to go into Iraq, is pushed out as chairman of the Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. That's the backward nature of this beast: Deceive, you're golden; tell the truth, you're gone.

Mr. Scowcroft was not deterred. Like Banquo's ghost, he clanked around last week, disputing the president's absurdly sunny forecasts for Iraq, and noting dryly that this administration had turned the word "realist" into a "pejorative." He predicted that the elections "have the great potential for deepening the conflict" by exacerbating the divisions between Shiite and Sunni Muslims. He worried that there would be "an incipient civil war," and said the best chance for the U.S. to avoid anarchy was to turn over the operation to the less inflammatory U.N. or NATO.

Mr. Scowcroft appeared at the New America Foundation with Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jimmy Carter's national security adviser, who declared the Iraq war a moral, political and military failure. If we can't send 500,000 troops, spend $500 billion and agree to resume the draft, then the conflict should be "terminated," he said, adding that far from the Jeffersonian democracy Mr. Bush extols, the most we can hope for is a Shiite-controlled theocracy.

The Iraqi election that was meant to be the solution to the problem - like the installation of a new Iraqi government and the transfer of sovereignty and all the other steps that were supposed to make things better - may actually be making things worse. The election is going to expand the control of the Shiite theocrats, even beyond what their numbers would entitle them to have, because of the way the Bush team has set it up and the danger that if you're a Sunni, the vote you cast may be your last.

It is a lesson never learned: Matters of state and the heart that start with a lie rarely end well. Jus My Lil Contribution To The Propogana Wars :D

the truth is you dont want to believe her because she is jewish, dont lie!


I wish that it were true, it is too bad that you think it has anything to do with being what people say they are. First I see the truth and the truth to me is what comes from it that is useful to us all, like air, like water, like earth, etc. What people say they are makes no difference to me because I see only people and how they project themselves either man or beast. Otherwise everyone is the same to me.

When we were children we dream and believed in ferry tales but then they quickly taught us that that is not real. Now that we are adults we dream and believe that war and that the bullets will make our dreams real. But I would rather believe in ferry tails and never never land than to ever believe that the bullets will cleanse this earth. Talk about the impossible UTOPIST----BUSH, OSAMA, SADDAM and their merry men, (what a big laugh they all are) the most civilize will relent.

Further more I wished that I could see what it is in being Bahamian, American, Iraqi, Moslem, Asian, British, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian, president, prime minister, etc, those are the things we say we are, it is what we say, and not everything we say makes sense or makes any difference, of cost not, not one bit.. The truth to me is what comes from it that is useful to us all, after that let it go.

The only thing I see about the truth and the lie is what it does and what it doesn’t do.