Vicky...there is no way that I can fully understand what you just posted....most of your responses were connected to my comments...you should have put a break between them.....anyway I'll try to respond to what I could read clearly.

First of all you will find many accounts of what Constantine supposedly did. I can quote one where he actually gave the church properties that once belonged to them and allowed them to safely practice their faith. He didn't order any slayings....there was actually peace between christians and the non-christians during his reign......The meeting in Nicea was not as it is quoted in your excerpt. However, it was to conclude a disagreement of whether Jesus was a part of the trinity before creation or whether there was just one single God and Jesus was created later on. There were many different branches of the church that had their own beliefs and still do to this day.....the Greek Orthodox Church is one of them do not confuse or mix your passages Vicky.....I suggest you get reliable information from a neutral reference. The orthodox church is not the Christian church that we are speaking of.


Moving on....the slanderous part is that you said the Christian church we have today is Murderous and intolerant, lemme quote it properly for you...

"The beginning of the murderous intolerant Christianity we have to this day."

I did not beat around the bush with the majority vote comment. I don't know if you're just being simple or what....but like I said before....everyone has their idea of what is right...but we all can't be right ....so we have to vote so that a decision can be made......so to some the majority is right...amd to others the majority is wrong....my daughter can understand that.....

I told you what is believed in that JEsus is the Son of God, this is not a debate on whether he said it or not because it is never directly stated by him in the bible. That does not stop the belief.

I would not call you a heretic....you have your own beliefs...if you live a good life and hold to your beliefs.....I hope that you will be rewarded when you die....neither you or I know if our beliefs will lead us to heaven...however I believe and hope that I will get there..... I wish the same for you.

Nice discussion.....

:mad:
Vicky...there is no way that I can fully understand what you just posted....most of your responses were connected to my comments...you should have put a break between them.....anyway I'll try to respond to what I could read clearly.

First of all you will find many accounts of what Constantine supposedly did. I can quote one where he actually gave the church properties that once belonged to them and allowed them to safely practice their faith. He didn't order any slayings....there was actually peace between christians and the non-christians during his reign......The meeting in Nicea was not as it is quoted in your excerpt. However, it was to conclude a disagreement of whether Jesus was a part of the trinity before creation or whether there was just one single God and Jesus was created later on. There were many different branches of the church that had their own beliefs and still do to this day.....the Greek Orthodox Church is one of them do not confuse or mix your passages Vicky.....I suggest you get reliable information from a neutral reference. The orthodox church is not the Christian church that we are speaking of.


Moving on....the slanderous part is that you said the Christian church we have today is Murderous and intolerant, lemme quote it properly for you...

"The beginning of the murderous intolerant Christianity we have to this day."

I did not beat around the bush with the majority vote comment. I don't know if you're just being simple or what....but like I said before....everyone has their idea of what is right...but we all can't be right ....so we have to vote so that a decision can be made......so to some the majority is right...amd to others the majority is wrong....my daughter can understand that.....

I told you what is believed in that JEsus is the Son of God, this is not a debate on whether he said it or not because it is never directly stated by him in the bible. That does not stop the belief.

I would not call you a heretic....you have your own beliefs...if you live a good life and hold to your beliefs.....I hope that you will be rewarded when you die....neither you or I know if our beliefs will lead us to heaven...however I believe and hope that I will get there..... I wish the same for you.

Nice discussion.....

:realmad: :mad:
First of all is a sign of ignorance and a defense tactic, be creative with your English verbiage. Find another way to reflect your thoughts. First of all is so...uncouth
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Vicky...there is no way that I can fully understand what you just posted....most of your responses were connected to my comments...you should have put a break between them.....anyway I'll try to respond to what I could read clearly.

First of all you will find many accounts of what Constantine supposedly did. I can quote one where he actually gave the church properties that once belonged to them and allowed them to safely practice their faith. He didn't order any slayings....First it was a bit of a challange to respond to your post as you did not use the quote break to seperate yours and mine. I did my best.
http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/hypatia.html
With the exception of the Emperor (Constantine)" he said, "and Eusebius Pamphilus, these Bishops were a set of illiterate, simple creatures who understood nothing." About forty Gospels were submitted to these Bishops. As they differed widely in their contents, the decision was difficult. At last it was determined to resort to "miraculous intervention." The method used was known as the Sortes Sanctorum, or "the holy casting of lots for purposes of divination." Its use in the Council of Nicea was described by another eye-witness, Pappus, in his Synodicon to that Council. He says:

Having promiscuously put all the books referred to the Council for determination under a communion table in a church, they (the Bishops) besought the Lord that the inspired writings might get upon the table, while the spurious ones remained underneath. And it happened accordingly.

When the Bishops returned to the Council room on the following morning, the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were resting on the communion table. Their presence in the New Testament is due to the art of divination, for practicing which the Church subsequently condemned men and women as sorcerers, enchanters and witches, and burned them by the thousands.

there was actually peace between christians and the non-christians during his reign......The meeting in Nicea was not as it is quoted in your excerpt. However, it was to conclude a disagreement of whether Jesus was a part of the trinity before creation or whether there was just one single God and Jesus was created later on. There were many different branches of the church that had their own beliefs and still do to this day.....the Greek Orthodox Church is one of them do not confuse or mix your passages Vicky.....I suggest you get reliable information from a neutral reference. The orthodox church is not the Christian church that we are speaking of.


Moving on....the slanderous part is that you said the Christian church we have today is Murderous and intolerant, lemme quote it properly for you...

"The beginning of the murderous intolerant Christianity we have to this day."
Christianity is not a tolerant religion.
I did not beat around the bush with the majority vote comment. I don't know if you're just being simple or what....but like I said before....everyone has their idea of what is right...but we all can't be right ....so we have to vote so that a decision can be made......so to some the majority is right...amd to others the majority is wrong....my daughter can understand that.....[/QUOTE]If the majority feel the world is flat does it make the world falt???

I told you what is believed in that JEsus is the Son of God, this is not a debate on whether he said it or not because it is never directly stated by him in the bible. That does not stop the belief. So you are saying no matter what Christ said the traditions of man are greater.hhhmm

I would not call you a heretic....you have your own beliefs...if you live a good life and hold to your beliefs.....I hope that you will be rewarded when you die....neither you or I know if our beliefs will lead us to heaven...however I believe and hope that I will get there..... I wish the same for you.

Nice discussion.....

That account by Pappus basically suggests that the books somehow ended up on the table mysteriously after everyone left the room and returned....hence resulting in the four gospels being included in the bible.....hmmmm...sounds fishy for real....but the Nicea council was to conclude an argument of the triune God vs a singular God, not to decide which books made it into the bible.....however it is possible that after they concluded ig God was triune or not...books conflicting that opinion were destroyed?

"Their presence in the New Testament is due to the art of divination, for practicing which the Church subsequently condemned men and women as sorcerers, enchanters and witches, and burned them by the thousands." This suggests that the books were mysteriously placed there by some divine intervention. But that any suggestion of divine intervention by individuals was later seen as sorcery. Seems stupid of them, but I don't know what was considered divine intervention those days. It also doesn't help much with Constantine changing the bible theory.

Christianity is tolerant, and we have learned that over the years.....we respect all religions and respect the freedom to believe in other faiths. Don't forget you also called it Murderous to this day as well...is Christianity murderous today?

The majority was right back then because it was not proven that the earth was round. The majotiry agreed that the earth was flat....so if you asked anyone in the majority back in those days they would have said it was flat. Today, it proves that they were wrong becuase we now have evidence of it.
Take this as an example then.....if the world was to vote whether or not there are extra-terrestrials and the majority votes no.....the final decision is that there are no ET's. But if someone proves later on that there are ET's, then a new vote will be done on this evidence and I'm sure the vote will then be YES.

I am not saying the traditions of man are greater than what Christ said. There you go trying to twist words.....Jesus never denied that he was the son of God, but he never admitted it either. The desciples believed that he was the son of God as well, but he never told them to stop believing that. So Christians believing he was the son of God is not a tradition being placed over the word of Jesus. He never said there was anything wrong in believing that he was the son of God, and never corrected people who believed it. Christians follow his teachings and also believe that he was the son of God. There is no contradiction in that.

Again nice convo.....

Regarding the sermon on the Mount. Please read this: (and as you read it keep in mind that the Buddha was 500 years before Jesus.) http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items04/240704-1.html

Here is a bit of it.

"His (Jesus) Sermon on the Mount constitutes the essence of his teachings. He lays down his code in the simplest terms. The underlying themes and the codes of conduct correspond to the Maha Mangala Sutra. In this Sutra Buddha adumbrates the blessings that lead to the highest ideals. The similarities between the Maha Mangala Sutra and the Sermon on the Mount are striking and scholars have drawn the parallels. Like Buddha he says: Be righteous, be meek, be pure of heart, be a peacemaker, be merciful, be better men than Pharisees (substitute Brahmins, in the case of Buddha) who follow rituals and make a show of their religion, make peace with your brother, turn the other cheek and don't gouge an eye for an eye, love your neighbour as thyself, forgive the wrongs of others, don't store up treasures on earth for your heart will be with the rotting treasures, no servant can serve two masters, put away anxious thoughts about food, drink and clothing because life is more than food, drink and clothing, enter the path of the straight and narrow are, by an large, the essentials in the Sermon of the Mount."

Thanks CG, this link is very interesting. I just read the first 3 and the last 3 paragraphs and placed it on my links file for further reading. Seems that many faiths borrowed teachings from each others -- or was it that the various prophets divinely received the same or similar messages from God and taught them?

I believe that a good, moral, upright teaching would be respected and received by anyone in search of the truth.

Regarding the sermon on the Mount. Please read this: (and as you read it keep in mind that the Buddha was 500 years before Jesus.) http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items04/240704-1.html

Here is a bit of it.

"His (Jesus) Sermon on the Mount constitutes the essence of his teachings. He lays down his code in the simplest terms. The underlying themes and the codes of conduct correspond to the Maha Mangala Sutra. In this Sutra Buddha adumbrates the blessings that lead to the highest ideals. The similarities between the Maha Mangala Sutra and the Sermon on the Mount are striking and scholars have drawn the parallels. Like Buddha he says: Be righteous, be meek, be pure of heart, be a peacemaker, be merciful, be better men than Pharisees (substitute Brahmins, in the case of Buddha) who follow rituals and make a show of their religion, make peace with your brother, turn the other cheek and don't gouge an eye for an eye, love your neighbour as thyself, forgive the wrongs of others, don't store up treasures on earth for your heart will be with the rotting treasures, no servant can serve two masters, put away anxious thoughts about food, drink and clothing because life is more than food, drink and clothing, enter the path of the straight and narrow are, by an large, the essentials in the Sermon of the Mount."
I disagree Christ's theme was that He is the only way for You to be saved,did the Buddha ever claim this or to be the Son of God?

That account by Pappus basically suggests that the books somehow ended up on the table mysteriously after everyone left the room and returned....hence resulting in the four gospels being included in the bible.....hmmmm...sounds fishy for real....but the Nicea council was to conclude an argument of the triune God vs a singular God, not to decide which books made it into the bible.....however it is possible that after they concluded ig God was triune or not...books conflicting that opinion were destroyed?
I think you need to recheck your history. The Nicean Council was bought and paid for by Constantine to gain and keep control of an empire using religion. The one religion that was mostly unknown to the people. He created the Christianity still in practice to this day.
"Their presence in the New Testament is due to the art of divination, for practicing which the Church subsequently condemned men and women as sorcerers, enchanters and witches, and burned them by the thousands." This suggests that the books were mysteriously placed there by some divine intervention. But that any suggestion of divine intervention by individuals was later seen as sorcery. Seems stupid of them, but I don't know what was considered divine intervention those days. It also doesn't help much with Constantine changing the bible theory.

Christianity is tolerant, and we have learned that over the years.....we respect all religions and respect the freedom to believe in other faiths. Don't forget you also called it Murderous to this day as well...is Christianity murderous today?Here let me help you. Bombs drop on Iraq, Bush says he is getting rid of evil doers, Bush says he is a Christian and God/the Creator is on his side. A few years back I saw in a news paper down here that this woman preacher was doing and exorcism on a retarded girl and drowned her in the sea.

The majority was right back then because it was not proven that the earth was round. The majotiry agreed that the earth was flat.... sorry 2+2 will never = 5 no matter how many people believe it. Practice does not make you perfect it only makes you good at what you practice no matter how wrong or right it is. so if you asked anyone in the majority back in those days they would have said it was flat. Today, it proves that they were wrong becuase we now have evidence of it.
Take this as an example then.....if the world was to vote whether or not there are extra-terrestrials and the majority votes no.....the final decision is that there are no ET's. But if someone proves later on that there are ET's, then a new vote will be done on this evidence and I'm sure the vote will then be YES.

I am not saying the traditions of man are greater than what Christ said. There you go trying to twist words.....Jesus never denied that he was the son of God, but he never admitted it either. The desciples believed that he was the son of God as well, but he never told them to stop believing that. So Christians believing he was the son of God is not a tradition being placed over the word of Jesus. He never said there was anything wrong in believing that he was the son of God, and never corrected people who believed it. Christians follow his teachings and also believe that he was the son of God. There is no contradiction in that.

Again nice convo.....

Jesus calls him self the Son of man other's call him the Son of God/the Creator
Who is right Jesus or others?????

Thanks CG, this link is very interesting. I just read the first 3 and the last 3 paragraphs and placed it on my links file for further reading. Seems that many faiths borrowed teachings from each others -- or was it that the various prophets divinely received the same or similar messages from God and taught them?

I believe that a good, moral, upright teaching would be respected and received by anyone in search of the truth.

Great Demos I like this post you are starting to see that there is more than 1 book more than 1 messenger more than 1 teacher. It can even come from with in.

I disagree Christ's theme was that He is the only way for You to be saved,did the Buddha ever claim this or to be the Son of God?

John 14:2 (King James Version)
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

My question here is with all these mansions they would all have a door. Would not there be many paths or walkways to these many doors??????

John 14:2 (King James Version)
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

My question here is with all these mansions they would all have a door. Would not there be many paths or walkways to these many doors??????
Because Christ said that He is the way,& that no man entered BUT by Him

Great Demos I like this post you are starting to see that there is more than 1 book more than 1 messenger more than 1 teacher. It can even come from with in.

STARTING? How little do you know. I have been digging and digging into philosophical and inspirational matters probably before you were born! [Not from a Bible standpoint though, 'cause I just started studying the Bible seriously about 7 years ago]. That is how I got the nickname Great Demos. Once every year the company where I spent the last 25 years of my working life used to have a questionnaire and one of the questions was "Who in this company you regard as the most philosophical". Most of the times I used to win!

But my basic grounding is still in the Bible. This is what we studied in Religious knowledge in school. This is what my parents, all my teahers, friends, my church, etc, were brought up on, and at this stage in my life I just don't see why I should change it. Even if it is not the only way to heaven, I believe its the Best Way!

There is a pastor who used to be a pilot. He does a lot of travelling by plane. Sometimes he would mention the times when the aircraft he was on almost crashed. In his years of travelling near crashes occurred about 3 times. And everytime he would notice that all the passengers would pray and call on the name of Jesus loudly. Not one time had he ever heard them calling on Krishna, Halle Selassie, Alah or ANY of the other gods of ANY of the other faiths! Now isn't that something!?

John 14:2 (King James Version)
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

My question here is with all these mansions they would all have a door. Would not there be many paths or walkways to these many doors??????

Vicky, this does not make any sense when you look at it from a spiritual standpoint. First, you have to enter Heaven (His Father's House, and He, Christ, is the Way!).

Who knows about doors, etc, to these mansions!? Remember when Christ resurrected, in His glorified, spiritual body He was able to enter locked rooms without opening doors! So in Paradise the mansions just might not have doors, 'cause in our glorified bodies we'd be like Christ in that we would not need doors to enter! It would NOT be like down here!

....There is a pastor who used to be a pilot. He does a lot of travelling by plane. Sometimes he would mention the times when the aircraft he was on almost crashed. In his years of travelling near crashes occurred about 3 times. And everytime he would notice that all the passengers would pray and call on the name of Jesus loudly. Not one time had he ever heard them calling on Krishna, Halle Selassie, Alah or ANY of the other gods of ANY of the other faiths! Now isn't that something!?

There could be a reason for that. No doubt he flew his plane in areas that were peopled by Christians. Had he flown for companies in Islamic areas, or other faiths, he might have heard different things. I can hardly believe that a plane full of, say Muslims, would call out to Jesus! And, if he had a plane load of Buddhist - they would not call out to anyone! :)

Because Christ said that He is the way,& that no man entered BUT by Him

As in following the way of life he taught not by worshiping him. I don't think you can find 1 reference where Jesus said to worship him. The way of life he taught is practiced by many religions. Thus many paths.

STARTING? How little do you know. I have been digging and digging into philosophical and inspirational matters probably before you were born! [Not from a Bible standpoint though, 'cause I just started studying the Bible seriously about 7 years ago]. That is how I got the nickname Great Demos. Once every year the company where I spent the last 25 years of my working life used to have a questionnaire and one of the questions was "Who in this company you regard as the most philosophical". Most of the times I used to win!
Ok so starting may have been the wrong word. But spiteritual inlightenment does not know age.
I have a few nick name to.

But my basic grounding is still in the Bible. This is what we studied in Religious knowledge in school. This is what my parents, all my teahers, friends, my church, etc, were brought up on, and at this stage in my life I just don't see why I should change it. Even if it is not the only way to heaven, I believe its the Best Way!

There is a pastor who used to be a pilot. He does a lot of travelling by plane. Sometimes he would mention the times when the aircraft he was on almost crashed. In his years of travelling near crashes occurred about 3 times. And everytime he would notice that all the passengers would pray and call on the name of Jesus loudly. Not one time had he ever heard them calling on Krishna, Halle Selassie, Alah or ANY of the other gods of ANY of the other faiths! Now isn't that something!?