Hi Vicky, giving sex education and planned parenting lessons to Haitians is just not going to work! Maybe you never heard it or would not believe it, but long ago great minds came to the conclusion that the more oppressed a people are the more children they would have. [oppressed people seem to over indulge in sex to ease their tribulation].

On the issue of preachers enriching themselves with poor people's money, maybe you should put yourself in a pastor's position!

In a properly run Christian church, a pastor never touches any money. A church is not a business but it is, or should be, run like a business, just like any other organization, even a home! The board members of the church are the ones who decide what the pastor is paid as well as how to handle whatever monies are taken in from tithes and offerings, etc., NOT the pastor.

Many people who don't attend church or have any idea how church money is handled would think that the pastor is living high on the hog with poor people's money. Once ago I myself used to think that way.

But if you were to consider the work and responsibilities of a full-time pastor, I don't you would want the job! Preaching his lungs out and teaching the gospel all the time, weddings funerals, visiting and praying for the sick, people calling on him or her all the time with all kinds of problems -- I mean, the poor soul has no rest! The overall responsibilities of the church rest on his shoulders!

Plus, the pastor has to eat also. He has bills to pay, children, mortage, etc, just like everybody else!

For Heaven's sake Vicky, I just don't understand how on earth you could think that someone could perform all these services free of charge and still survive!!!

Hi Vicky, giving sex education and planned parenting lessons to Haitians is just not going to work! Maybe you never heard it or would not believe it, but long ago great minds came to the conclusion that the more oppressed a people are the more children they would have. [oppressed people seem to over indulge in sex to ease their tribulation].

On the issue of preachers enriching themselves with poor people's money, maybe you should put yourself in a pastor's position!

In a properly run Christian church, a pastor never touches any money. A church is not a business but it is, or should be, run like a business, just like any other organization, even a home! The board members of the church are the ones who decide what the pastor is paid as well as how to handle whatever monies are taken in from tithes and offerings, etc., NOT the pastor.

Many people who don't attend church or have any idea how church money is handled would think that the pastor is living high on the hog with poor people's money. Once ago I myself used to think that way.

But if you were to consider the work and responsibilities of a full-time pastor, I don't you would want the job! Preaching his lungs out and teaching the gospel all the time, weddings funerals, visiting and praying for the sick, people calling on him or her all the time with all kinds of problems -- I mean, the poor soul has no rest! The overall responsibilities of the church rest on his shoulders!

Plus, the pastor has to eat also. He has bills to pay, children, mortage, etc, just like everybody else!

For Heaven's sake Vicky, I just don't understand how on earth you could think that someone could perform all these services free of charge and still survive!!!

Then why are there preachers with million dollar homes and privet jets very fancy cloths very expensive cars. They indulge in the money that is given for the Creator purpose.
They have no business having a new expensive car and drive past the poor walking.
What would Christ do if he were given an expensive coach to ride in?
What would Christ do if he were given the money to own a big house?
What would Christ do if some one gave him fancy clothes??

I am very aware preacher have to live but they don’t have to live in excess. HHHHmmm did Christ? With all the power Christ had he could have lived very well better than any king for sure. He could have impressed people with wealth beyond dreams. Yet he was a humble man who taught and helped people not looking for personal gain. Oh and he lived.

Its called leading by example.

I agree on that point Vicky.....I don't understand how some "pastors" can live that kind of lifestyle...as I said in another post before. Which is why I commend my pastor, and all other pastors like him...who live humble lives; don't own a car, don't own a home, hardly have any leisure time to themselves...They do work hard, and I feel sorry for them sometimes, but they say they enjoy what they do and are doing the work of God.

But I can't judge those other pastors who live in million dollar homes and drive mercedes benzes and lexuses,etc.,....I dislike how they live so extravagantly while people in their church community are left struggling....but God has to deal with them as he sees fit. And you have to look at their followers too...because they should come to the realization that they are the ones enabling these "pastors" to live their lavish lifestyles...so they should take control of the situation themselves and stop being blind and stout-hearted to the fact.

If anyone here attends a church like the one I am speaking of, I don't aim to offend, but I'm just giving you something to think about.

Cool?.....cool.... :walk:

As I read through these thread, I see just how ignorant mankind has really become. You want the Haitians gone out of Bahamaland, the Haitians who are crying for help. You don't mind the Americans or Canadians entering Bahamas, but the Haitians you do. America has that same problem too. It's called let the white-colored Cubans enter and seek asylum while the Haitian niggers, yes niggers (this is the way the white American society sees them), get turned back around to suffer a fate worse than death. The sad thing is, Black people are on board with this idea. America took in white Cuban criminals (Mariel boatlift, '80) and sent law abiding black Haitians back to Haiti to face hardship. I'm not saying they were all law-abiding or criminals...but you get the idea. Black Americans in Miami (thinking they were being patriotic) allowed the govt to discriminate against the Haitians, a move that they ended up regretting because the white-colored Cubans are now getting better jobs than the Black Americans.

I don't want to turn anyone away , if they truly need help then I will help. All I am saying is be fair. If you are willing to accept the Americans or Canadians into the Bahamas, then accept the Haitians as well. You claim to be God-fearing Christians (Muslims, Jews whatever), but you are acting like a bunch of atheist heathens. You only use the Word when it can be applied to you and when it is for your benefit. We nned to embrace the Haitian people and help them to their feet. The last true freedom fighter Haiti has ever had was Touissant L'Overture. Everyone else has just screwed them over. They are a broken people, they need our support.

Remember, according to the mindset of the majority, none of you are originally from where you claim you are from. Technically, you are all illegal immigrants because your ancestors were brought over on a ship or sailed here for a better life. To the guy who said time makes you a citizen it does not. Birthright does. Not just your birthright, but the birthright of your ancestors. Was your whole family born in the Bahamas to include your ancestors? Probably not. So according to the mindset of the majority you are not a citizen.

My 2 cents

PS - I use the term white-colored Cubans because so far that is all America seems to let into the country. The dark-skinned Cubans are thought of as Haitian niggers who learned Spanish in order to get into the country. Can't fool America right? :rolleyes: Racism is still alive...and the worse kind has reared its ugly head. It is racism against ourselves. Wake up Black people, before its too late.

HERRING

As I read through these thread, I see just how ignorant mankind has really become. You want the Haitians gone out of Bahamaland, the Haitians who are crying for help. You don't mind the Americans or Canadians entering Bahamas, but the Haitians you do. America has that same problem too. It's called let the white-colored Cubans enter and seek asylum while the Haitian niggers, yes niggers (this is the way the white American society sees them), get turned back around to suffer a fate worse than death. The sad thing is, Black people are on board with this idea. America took in white Cuban criminals (Mariel boatlift, '80) and sent law abiding black Haitians back to Haiti to face hardship. I'm not saying they were all law-abiding or criminals...but you get the idea. Black Americans in Miami (thinking they were being patriotic) allowed the govt to discriminate against the Haitians, a move that they ended up regretting because the white-colored Cubans are now getting better jobs than the Black Americans.

I don't want to turn anyone away , if they truly need help then I will help. All I am saying is be fair. If you are willing to accept the Americans or Canadians into the Bahamas, then accept the Haitians as well. You claim to be God-fearing Christians (Muslims, Jews whatever), but you are acting like a bunch of atheist heathens. You only use the Word when it can be applied to you and when it is for your benefit. We nned to embrace the Haitian people and help them to their feet. The last true freedom fighter Haiti has ever had was Touissant L'Overture. Everyone else has just screwed them over. They are a broken people, they need our support.

Remember, according to the mindset of the majority, none of you are originally from where you claim you are from. Technically, you are all illegal immigrants because your ancestors were brought over on a ship or sailed here for a better life. To the guy who said time makes you a citizen it does not. Birthright does. Not just your birthright, but the birthright of your ancestors. Was your whole family born in the Bahamas to include your ancestors? Probably not. So according to the mindset of the majority you are not a citizen.

My 2 cents

PS - I use the term white-colored Cubans because so far that is all America seems to let into the country. The dark-skinned Cubans are thought of as Haitian niggers who learned Spanish in order to get into the country. Can't fool America right? :rolleyes: Racism is still alive...and the worse kind has reared its ugly head. It is racism against ourselves. Wake up Black people, before its too late.

HERRING

The is much in what you say, Zulu. However, good intentions aside, even America cannot absorb everyone who want to live there, they would be swamped. The Bahamas would be swamped if all the Haitians who wanted to come here were allowed in. (Same goes for other people's)

I think what we, and other Black nations, need to do is to go to Haiti and help build a stable country. We could have something like the "Peace Corp." We could call it "People Helping People." I strongly believe that $1.00 spent in Haiti will go a lot farther that $10.00 spent here to send them back!

As I read through these thread, I see just how ignorant mankind has really become. You want the Haitians gone out of Bahamaland, the Haitians who are crying for help. You don't mind the Americans or Canadians entering Bahamas, but the Haitians you do. America has that same problem too. It's called let the white-colored Cubans enter and seek asylum while the Haitian niggers, yes niggers (this is the way the white American society sees them), get turned back around to suffer a fate worse than death. The sad thing is, Black people are on board with this idea. America took in white Cuban criminals (Mariel boatlift, '80) and sent law abiding black Haitians back to Haiti to face hardship. I'm not saying they were all law-abiding or criminals...but you get the idea. Black Americans in Miami (thinking they were being patriotic) allowed the govt to discriminate against the Haitians, a move that they ended up regretting because the white-colored Cubans are now getting better jobs than the Black Americans.
Did you read post 66 carefuly???? As I am sure you are picking on my post of 2 cents. I think you need to read read it again and ask a few questions.
I don't want to turn anyone away , if they truly need help then I will help. All I am saying is be fair. If you are willing to accept the Americans or Canadians into the Bahamas, then accept the Haitians as well. You claim to be God-fearing Christians (Muslims, Jews whatever), but you are acting like a bunch of atheist heathens. You only use the Word when it can be applied to you and when it is for your benefit. We nned to embrace the Haitian people and help them to their feet. The last true freedom fighter Haiti has ever had was Touissant L'Overture. Everyone else has just screwed them over. They are a broken people, they need our support.

Remember, according to the mindset of the majority, none of you are originally from where you claim you are from. Technically, you are all illegal immigrants because your ancestors were brought over on a ship or sailed here for a better life. To the guy who said time makes you a citizen it does not. Birthright does. Not just your birthright, but the birthright of your ancestors. Was your whole family born in the Bahamas to include your ancestors? Probably not. So according to the mindset of the majority you are not a citizen.

My 2 cents

PS - I use the term white-colored Cubans because so far that is all America seems to let into the country. The dark-skinned Cubans are thought of as Haitian niggers who learned Spanish in order to get into the country. Can't fool America right? :rolleyes: Racism is still alive...and the worse kind has reared its ugly head. It is racism against ourselves. Wake up Black people, before its too late.

HERRING

Its not just race its anything that is different. any reasion will do.

The is much in what you say, Zulu. However, good intentions aside, even America cannot absorb everyone who want to live there, they would be swamped. The Bahamas would be swamped if all the Haitians who wanted to come here were allowed in. (Same goes for other people's)

I think what we, and other Black nations, need to do is to go to Haiti and help build a stable country. We could have something like the "Peace Corp." We could call it "People Helping People." I strongly believe that $1.00 spent in Haiti will go a lot farther that $10.00 spent here to send them back!

Again one of the 3 (maybe more)

Ok...I will respond to this comment by zulu.....

I think you have misunderstood some things about the situation...I don't think the Bahamas is racist against the Haitians as you are saying it.

The point about the Americans/Canadians doesn't hold up...you know why...any ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT who enters the Bahamas is detained and returned to his/her country when captured. There have been Africans, Chinese and a lot of other immigrants that have been deported to their countries for entering the Bahamas illegally. We don't just accept people because of where they come from...we accept the if they enter our country through the legal process, and are willing and able to survive on their own without fully depending on our support...and from someone who has attempted to move to England, I can tell you that every country is the same, with regards to immigration, so don't get your ideas mixed up.

It looks like you're more geared towards a race issue, but what you need to do is come up with an idea of resolving the problem we have at hand....like I did in this forum and another forum as well...It is understood that we have a constant influx of illegal immigrants from all over...but the majority of them are Haitians, and we all know this. And we also know that because of the conditions in Haiti...this will continue to happen until a reasonable solution is put into effect. So we have to work to find a solution...not just say let's help them out...because what are we doing to help them? and letting illegal immigrants stay in the Bahamas do is not the final answer...I'm sorry.

Think about it....we are a small nation, with a bit more than 300,000 people right? and most of them live in nassau.......how many times have you said to yourself...this place is too small...thhis place getting too crowded....or too many cars on this island?.....

now....imagine millions of people fleeing Haiti...and coming to our Islands...mainly nassau.....This island is already crowded with not even 1/2 a million people.......imagine millions trying to fit here.......now do you see the problem that is hiding behind the issue?.....

so come up with a solution and stop pointing fingers.....I gave my contribution...and I will continue to think of new ways to resolve the issue...and relay my thoughts to other people.......DO THE SAME!


Cool?......cool.... :dancer2:

The is much in what you say, Zulu. However, good intentions aside, even America cannot absorb everyone who want to live there, they would be swamped. The Bahamas would be swamped if all the Haitians who wanted to come here were allowed in. (Same goes for other people's)

I think what we, and other Black nations, need to do is to go to Haiti and help build a stable country. We could have something like the "Peace Corp." We could call it "People Helping People." I strongly believe that $1.00 spent in Haiti will go a lot farther that $10.00 spent here to send them back!



What alot of you fail to realize is the amount of fighting and violence that goes on in HAiti.....heads of our government and other "Black" countries cannot simply get together and go to Haiti and build a stable country....how will they do it? what is the plan to do it? Just go there and say ok...."Haiti is now a stable country!"...it doesn't work like that....

First they need to stop the fighting and violence that goes on.....HAITI HAS AN ARMY!!!!! WITH TANKS AND OTHER THINGS WE DON'T HAVE! How can we even go up against their militia?...THere are people in Haiti who don't want the country to change because they are free to loot and plunder in its present state....and these people are fully capable of defending themselves and waging war against those who are against them. I feel that the only people who can begin the process of helping HAiti is the US or Europe....countries with armies who can intimidate the violent ones who bring instability to HAiti....then the country can begin its reformation.....there is no whay Haiti can be reformed with the fighting that goes on there.

SOOOOOOOOOOO....what WE as "BLACK" countries need to do...is appeal to the US and these other more powerful countries....to assist in the fight against oppression in Haiti....to help them get back on their feet. But there are a few problems.......1) the Iraqi war is going on now.....nuff said...don't even need to explain that problem.....
2) the US doesn't look to profit from helping HAiti...they have a tendency to help countries with an underlying motive....to gain something in return.....so we need to get the United Nations involved....at the next summit......so that all these powerful countries can be encouraged to cometogether to help a fallen country......

Haiti has the means to survive on their own.....they can manufacture things....and build a profitable trade system with other countries as they did before....1) they just need an end to the violence...2) then a respectable focussed leader who can lead the country without looking to make himself rich.....3) finally...subsequent support from other countries to help them maintain their growth......
Tourism will eventually increase to the country (then the Bahamas will really have a problem :shhh: ).....and then Haiti will be able to survive on their own......

We cannot do it on our own....all we can do is encourage the powerful countries to help us to help Haiti....help themselves!


Cool?......cool :cool:

What alot of you fail to realize is the amount of fighting and violence that goes on in HAiti.....heads of our government and other "Black" countries cannot simply get together and go to Haiti and build a stable country....how will they do it? what is the plan to do it? Just go there and say ok...."Haiti is now a stable country!"...it doesn't work like that....

First they need to stop the fighting and violence that goes on.....HAITI HAS AN ARMY!!!!! WITH TANKS AND OTHER THINGS WE DON'T HAVE! How can we even go up against their militia?...THere are people in Haiti who don't want the country to change because they are free to loot and plunder in its present state....and these people are fully capable of defending themselves and waging war against those who are against them. I feel that the only people who can begin the process of helping HAiti is the US or Europe....countries with armies who can intimidate the violent ones who bring instability to HAiti....then the country can begin its reformation.....there is no whay Haiti can be reformed with the fighting that goes on there.

SOOOOOOOOOOO....what WE as "BLACK" countries need to do...is appeal to the US and these other more powerful countries....to assist in the fight against oppression in Haiti....to help them get back on their feet. But there are a few problems.......1) the Iraqi war is going on now.....nuff said...don't even need to explain that problem.....
2) the US doesn't look to profit from helping HAiti...they have a tendency to help countries with an underlying motive....to gain something in return.....so we need to get the United Nations involved....at the next summit......so that all these powerful countries can be encouraged to cometogether to help a fallen country......

Haiti has the means to survive on their own.....they can manufacture things....and build a profitable trade system with other countries as they did before....1) they just need an end to the violence...2) then a respectable focussed leader who can lead the country without looking to make himself rich.....3) finally...subsequent support from other countries to help them maintain their growth......
Tourism will eventually increase to the country (then the Bahamas will really have a problem :shhh: ).....and then Haiti will be able to survive on their own......

We cannot do it on our own....all we can do is encourage the powerful countries to help us to help Haiti....help themselves!


Cool?......cool :cool:

Of course we cant just go barreling in there! There needs to be a plan that takes in all the nations in the area. If troops are needed to restore law and order then they have to be found. You can't tell me that the Carribean nations can't rustle a peace keeping force! (Zulu has combat experience and he is one of many islands folk who have.) But as you said, the US is not interested. Maybe if the Carribean nations took the lead the US might help out.

In the meantime, we should sit on out hands? Why not! That is what we always do.

LOL......have you seen what happened when people went in there to take them FOOD!!! ? the people had riots!!..they are not welcoming to a peace keeping force.....Like i said....they have dangerous militias who prevent people from creating a peaceful atmosphere.....
we need armed forces support before we can go in to bring about peace.....you know like having protection while negotiations are being done.....
we shouldn't sit on our hands...but we can't expect to go in there with the few "policemen" or whatever people we have who had "combat experience".....THESE GUYS HAVE TANKS!! T - A - N - K - S!....and serious weapons,....we go in there talkin bout peace and we ain't gat people to back us up with weapons superior to theirs and we will be blown right back to the Bahamas and the rest of the Caribbean islands.....

My previous posts includes the steps I think should be taken to bring about change in Haiti.....

These are excerpts from some online news articles:

"Even with some 3,500 foreign peace-keepers in Haiti, young men have gone into hiding.
"If they see me on the streets, they'll kill me too because we loved Aristide and they hate us for that," said Nassom Pierre, a 30-year-old security guard."

"A 14-year-old boy caught stealing was chased by a mob that dragged him before an improvised jury that ordered him shot to death, Arroyo said.
In northeast Fort Liberte, there are reports that "a gang of convicts is basically running the place", Arroyo said."

"An AP reporter watched rebel leader Louis-Jodel Chamblain, a convicted assassin, acting as judge last week in the northern port of Cap-Haitien, where Aristide supporters and French peace-keepers say bodies are still appearing in the bay. Chamblain holds court despite the arrival two weeks ago of 150 French troops and the return of about 50 police officers."

"4) Haiti

(a) The entire country remains in UN security phase III. Reports note increasing common crime and/or political violence in the areas of Port au Prince, Gonaives, Port de Paix and the North West of the country. Humanitarian activities have been affected by insecurity during most of the month of November: such as an incident with a WHO car that was held up at gunpoint and robbed. Various attacks on schools, banks and cars took also place. In and around Gonaives, attacks and looting of different NGO vehicles affected several CARE pick-up and trucks; a CARE ambulance carrying drugs for the Red Cross; an ACF Action Contre la Faim (ACF) truck; as well as an ADRA truck. In Cap Haitien, tension between the population and the Haitian police resulted in two civilians being killed. (b) Because of the strike among the custom authorities of the port of Port-a-Prince since 30 November, WFP still has some 200 containers of food at the port. "



This is what we would be facing.....and the following coincides with my plan.....

"History shows us that a multinational force with a U.N mandate would be more legitimate and better placed to help create peace and stability in Haiti. It would be repeating wrong steps from the past to send in troops without a U.N mandate and without multinational representation," said Joost Martens, Regional Director of Oxfam in Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean."

when I was on the RBDF, an officer told me that a team sent there was forbidden from giving their rations out to the kids begging in the streets.

One officer was approached by a small girl who wanted food, and he gave her a small packet of rations.

Within seconds a mob rushed the little girl and literally ripped her body limb from limb - to get at the food.

his commander made him stand and watch what he had inadvertantly caused.

To say things are bad in Haiti is an understatement, I would choose Fox Hill Prison first!!!

something must be done.

This is what we would be facing.....and the following coincides with my plan.....

"History shows us that a multinational force with a U.N mandate would be more legitimate and better placed to help create peace and stability in Haiti. It would be repeating wrong steps from the past to send in troops without a U.N mandate and without multinational representation," said Joost Martens, Regional Director of Oxfam in Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean."

Is that not what I said, in part? I did not mention the UN but the multinational force could be made up of Caribbean nations, or perhaps the greater part of it. But then again you said that they would not welcome a peace keeping force - to bad! They are a cancer in this area and must be "fixed." Whatever happens it will not be easy but Black nations need to take the lead, or at least be seen to be taking the lead. It is time they stood up and stop waitng for "Uncle Sam" to do the work for them.

PS as for them having tanks. The Americans have tanks, the rebels in Iraq don't and they are giving the Americans a run for their money! Tanks are not the be-all-and-end-all.

This is only on the tanks thing....you have to understand that in Iraq most of the vehicles being destroyed are humvees...not tanks....they are making roadside bombs and when the humvees drive over ..BOOOOOM!...das some crap hey!
Which is why I said we need to at least match that type of force with help from the US.....

but hey CG..you see what I said about their tourism part? and how the Bahamas would be in a stew when theirs take off?....THey got mountains and stuff....I hear that Haiti is a beautiful place...and I know that when they get straight I'd wanna go there.....but I think the Bahamas and Haiti would have a better relationship when they get back on their feet...don't you think? At least I hope they do....