Personally I feel like everybody is more afraid of Voodoo than the Haitian government.

And they are very brutal, even to their own people. I certainly would not want to be sent there to fight them.

they seem to have a desire to harm more than to kill, and nobody wants to be tortured for trying to help out.

My opinion is that what is happening in Haiti is happening all around the world, just happened quickly in Haiti.

All societies around the world our going down the drain as the governments turn away from God.

It seems like a new law is past every other day that goes against God's word.

I read about a husband that punched his wife in the abdomen because she would not abort the baby, and the judge let him go. The baby died, but he was not charged, because the judge said that the 3 month old foetus was not a child yet? he did not even get charged with battery.

:confused:

Personally I feel like everybody is more afraid of Voodoo than the Haitian government.

And they are very brutal, even to their own people. I certainly would not want to be sent there to fight them.

they seem to have a desire to harm more than to kill, and nobody wants to be tortured for trying to help out.

My opinion is that what is happening in Haiti is happening all around the world, just happened quickly in Haiti.

All societies around the world our going down the drain as the governments turn away from God.

It seems like a new law is past every other day that goes against God's word.

I read about a husband that punched his wife in the abdomen because she would not abort the baby, and the judge let him go. The baby died, but he was not charged, because the judge said that the 3 month old foetus was not a child yet? he did not even get charged with battery.

:confused:



I read that article too...that's just sick....!

What's wrong with voodoo? And i'm being serious here. It has deities, it's a faith (if it has deities it needs faith) so what more do you want?

As for the tank thing, a tank is very easy to disable and you can do it from a distance with an AT4 anti-tank weapon (looks like a bazooka) or depleted uranium rounds. This however is not the point. I was not pointing fingers at anyone, I was just stating the obvious (or as it seemed to me). My thing is this, the Haitians are crying for help. If you don't want them in your land, then offer them support. We must help and teach them to fight to regain their land. The UN is a great solution, but will they help if no other country stands up and say we should help Haiti? The Black nations should be the first to stand. Eventually, others will stand and eventually the superpowers will get involved. Haiti's current Army is corrupted. They only remain loyal as long as the gov't gives them more than they would give the citizens. Haiti's current Army is also weak. Those tanks that everyone is worried about is probably being used by inexperienced fighters who sole purpose is to drive them around and promote fear. If you can get the Dominicans to travel to the other side of the island into Haiti to help control the situation then you'll probably have a shot at restoring their land. But, you may face another problem, the Dominicans may try to force the Haitians off and then the Dominicans may take the whole island.

As for the overcrowding of the land issue, you can regulate how many people you let into the borders. Just don't discriminate on who you let through the borders.

Ok...I understand what you say about the tank thing...and maybe I'm just scared for anyone who tries to stop those violent bruts.....but on the regulating borders thing...I don't think it's as easy as you make it sound...cuz we have a problem stopping illegal immigrants now...but booooooy....we ga have some serious trouble on our hands if we don't start rallying together with the UN to help these poor souls whatever way we can... :screw:

What's wrong with voodoo? And i'm being serious here. It has deities, it's a faith (if it has deities it needs faith) so what more do you want?

Hi Koolbonze, Voodoo is a "religion" that is steeped in obeah and witchcraft, and these are the things that God hates, they are an abomination to Him according to the Bible.

Apparently there are other Caribbean islands that practise Voodoo and word is on the street that it is here in the Bahamas also (hopefully on a much smaller scale).

In Christian circles it is believed that countries which practise this cult (as it is also called), will gradually collapse like a house of cards.

As I read through these thread, I see just how ignorant mankind has really become. You want the Haitians gone out of Bahamaland, the Haitians who are crying for help. You don't mind the Americans or Canadians entering Bahamas, but the Haitians you do. America has that same problem too. It's called let the white-colored Cubans enter and seek asylum while the Haitian niggers, yes niggers (this is the way the white American society sees them), get turned back around to suffer a fate worse than death. The sad thing is, Black people are on board with this idea. America took in white Cuban criminals (Mariel boatlift, '80) and sent law abiding black Haitians back to Haiti to face hardship. I'm not saying they were all law-abiding or criminals...but you get the idea. Black Americans in Miami (thinking they were being patriotic) allowed the govt to discriminate against the Haitians, a move that they ended up regretting because the white-colored Cubans are now getting better jobs than the Black Americans.
I don't want to turn anyone away , if they truly need help then I will help. All I am saying is be fair. If you are willing to accept the Americans or Canadians into the Bahamas, then accept the Haitians as well. You claim to be God-fearing Christians (Muslims, Jews whatever), but you are acting like a bunch of atheist heathens. You only use the Word when it can be applied to you and when it is for your benefit. We nned to embrace the Haitian people and help them to their feet. The last true freedom fighter Haiti has ever had was Touissant L'Overture. Everyone else has just screwed them over. They are a broken people, they need our support.

Supporting them is helping them to stand on their own two feet, and run a successful, democratic society, not allowing them to come here in droves and drain our resources, and you know this.

Remember, according to the mindset of the majority, none of you are originally from where you claim you are from. Technically, you are all illegal immigrants because your ancestors were brought over on a ship or sailed here for a better life. To the guy who said time makes you a citizen it does not. Birthright does. Not just your birthright, but the birthright of your ancestors. Was your whole family born in the Bahamas to include your ancestors? Probably not. So according to the mindset of the majority you are not a citizen.

My 2 cents

PS - I use the term white-colored Cubans because so far that is all America seems to let into the country. The dark-skinned Cubans are thought of as Haitian niggers who learned Spanish in order to get into the country. Can't fool America right? :rolleyes: Racism is still alive...and the worse kind has reared its ugly head. It is racism against ourselves. Wake up Black people, before its too late.

HERRING





To Zulu, it is not fair and you know this, to call the Bahamas racist because we turn back illegal Haitian immigrants, and like it was mentioned by Rizzo, illegal Haitians are not the only ones held at our detention centers. Common sense is common sense. As a small country we cannot absorb the thousands of Haitians fleeing their country. Before you know it our society staggers and cripples under the weight, and then what help would we be, we would end up in the same state. Creating a problem is not the way to solve a problem. What Haiti needs is stability, and the know how to stand on their own two feet. Its better to get at the core of the problem, because in the long run it will work out better. And as far as all of us being from somewhere else, try using that line when residing ilegally in a country, I doubt that would help you out. My 2 cents.

I was doing some research on casting spells, voodoo, wicca and witchcraft just last night. They listed obeah as very powerful and definetly only to be used as a last resort - it said "when you need sure results quickly obeah is the way".

I don't want anyone practicing any type of religion that uses spirits and/or spells to control others. I know that God does not like communication with spirits either and it seems that countries that practice these religions are always very much steeped in shambles and poverty. They say that when you cast a spell it comes back times three - perhaps that's why their country is messed up - I think africa qualifies as well.

But religion and it's affects aside, why would the UN or USA want to help Haiti get back on track, they like being a monopoly 'so to speak' and if you look at Haiti's history you will see that they were independent way before the Bahamas and were one of the riches countries in the caribbean and maybe even the world.

Why would the US or UN try to sincerely help them return to power?

Besides that I understand that Haitians are known to be very powerful in terms of fighting - so why don't they just form a group and overthrow their government instead of running away.

I think the rebuilding of their country is a big mental barrier for them that they just don't want to overcome - so they just leave instead.

I was doing some research on casting spells, voodoo, wicca and witchcraft just last night. They listed obeah as very powerful and definetly only to be used as a last resort - it said "when you need sure results quickly obeah is the way".
I don't want anyone practicing any type of religion that uses spirits and/or spells to control others. I know that God does not like communication with spirits either and it seems that countries that practice these religions are always very much steeped in shambles and poverty. They say that when you cast a spell it comes back times three - perhaps that's why their country is messed up - I think africa qualifies as well.
I must take issue with one of your statements "I know that God does not like communication with spirits either and it seems that countries that practice these religions are always very much steeped in shambles and poverty." The truth of the matter is that there have been many, of not most, great empires that have been steeped in magic, spells etc. To name just a few, Egypt, Greece, Rome. I know that an argument could be made that these Empires are no longer around. That is true, but they lasted a long time. Yet, all Empires rise, have their glory days, then collapse. That is the nature of Empires.

But religion and it's affects aside, why would the UN or USA want to help Haiti get back on track, they like being a monopoly 'so to speak' and if you look at Haiti's history you will see that they were independent way before the Bahamas and were one of the riches countries in the caribbean and maybe even the world.
I doubt the richest in the world but they did have more that we do. If they were that rich another Empire, of the day, would have taken them over.

It is in the interest of the US to sort the matter out as illegal immigration hurts them as well. It is their interest to get Haiti "fixed" as stable countries in the Caribbean means a stable Caribbean! One less thing for the US to worry about.

As for the UN. It is their mandate to go around he world, "putting out fires." How well they achieve that goal is up for dispute.

Besides that I understand that Haitians are known to be very powerful in terms of fighting - so why don't they just form a group and overthrow their government instead of running away.
Being a good fighter is not enough. One has to have the organization to form a good fighting force. Haiti does not have that.

I think the rebuilding of their country is a big mental barrier for them that they just don't want to overcome - so they just leave instead.
I think it is too.

I believe that we are in a very strange predicament. As more and more Haitians enter our society, the already overburdened system in place will inevitably buckle under their additional "weight". Those in this country who are left in a position to fend for themselves will end up being more protective of what they have and a mini civil war will probably break out.

As with anything in this little Bahamaland, we forgot to look ahead and deal with this situation before it got out of control. Yes, many Haitians are hardworking additions to our workforce, but do they truly respect the flag and the laws of this country when they openly break our immigration and property laws? The questions at hand are: 1. Do they want to become a proud Bahamian or do they simply want to be a Haitian living in the Bahamas because life is better here? and 2. To what nation does their final allegiance lie with? If they are living here and cannot say that their allegiance is ultimately to the well-being and prosperity of The Bahamas, then perhaps The Bahamas is not the best place for them to be.

The best example of a country that the majority of its immigrant citizens truly respect is the US. Some immigrants leave the US citizenship ceremony in tears because they are so proud to finally be a US citizen. Here in the Bahamas you get your papers and passport and that’s it - no overwhelming sense of obligation or devotion to the flag of a growing island nation. The only immigrants who should be allowed to work and live here are those who are devoted to enhancing life in the Bahamas, first and foremost. Of course foreign cultural exchange strengthens the overall nature of our people, but it does not make any sense to take in immigrants whose eyes only look out for their own homeland, at the expense of Bahamians no less. I would dare say that hundreds of thousands of US dollars go to Haiti each year from this country. Add to that the medical and educational costs incurred by many illegal Haitians (who often use these services for free) and anyone can see that The Bahamas is slowly being sucked dry.

Bahamians are a caring people, however, and we do not wish to see our brothers and sisters suffer. Everyone in this world deserves a better life, but when it puts the Bahamian way of life at risk in ANY way because of blatant exploitation of the resources of a struggling government, we have to draw the line for our own survival. At what point will we stop being “nice” and repatriate the people who are here illegally? All in all the nation of Haiti is serving the purposes of stretching the resources of other Caribbean nations to a point where they find it difficult to compete globally. This is a clear and obvious fact. It may not be a deliberate act of hindrance on the part of those Haitians looking for a better life, but the reality is that they are causing small nations like the Bahamas to experience financial issues that would not have existed if our population was allowed to grow normally, minus thousands of immigrants each year. For those of you who probably think by now that Bahamians are “picking on Haitians”, please name another group of immigrants who has created as many “villages” within Bahamian society as Haitians have.

Something has to be done here in The Bahamas - NOW. The test of whether we have waited too long is if we have a mass Haitian protest against the actions of a small country simply trying to protect the future well-being of its citizens (including those Haitians who are now legally Bahamian). So far any sort of rebellious action by illegal Haitians in response to mass deportations has only been left to the realms of speculation, but seeing how they can’t get their act together in Haiti, it’s bound to happen on an exponentially larger scale if we continue to wait any longer.

I believe that we are in a very strange predicament. As more and more Haitians enter our society, the already overburdened system in place will inevitably buckle under their additional "weight". Those in this country who are left in a position to fend for themselves will end up being more protective of what they have and a mini civil war will probably break out.

As with anything in this little Bahamaland, we forgot to look ahead and deal with this situation before it got out of control. Yes, many Haitians are hardworking additions to our workforce, but do they truly respect the flag and the laws of this country when they openly break our immigration and property laws? The questions at hand are: 1. Do they want to become a proud Bahamian or do they simply want to be a Haitian living in the Bahamas because life is better here? and 2. To what nation does their final allegiance lie with? If they are living here and cannot say that their allegiance is ultimately to the well-being and prosperity of The Bahamas, then perhaps The Bahamas is not the best place for them to be.

The best example of a country that the majority of its immigrant citizens truly respect is the US. Some immigrants leave the US citizenship ceremony in tears because they are so proud to finally be a US citizen. Here in the Bahamas you get your papers and passport and that’s it - no overwhelming sense of obligation or devotion to the flag of a growing island nation. The only immigrants who should be allowed to work and live here are those who are devoted to enhancing life in the Bahamas, first and foremost. Of course foreign cultural exchange strengthens the overall nature of our people, but it does not make any sense to take in immigrants whose eyes only look out for their own homeland, at the expense of Bahamians no less. I would dare say that hundreds of thousands of US dollars go to Haiti each year from this country. Add to that the medical and educational costs incurred by many illegal Haitians (who often use these services for free) and anyone can see that The Bahamas is slowly being sucked dry.

Bahamians are a caring people, however, and we do not wish to see our brothers and sisters suffer. Everyone in this world deserves a better life, but when it puts the Bahamian way of life at risk in ANY way because of blatant exploitation of the resources of a struggling government, we have to draw the line for our own survival. At what point will we stop being “nice” and repatriate the people who are here illegally? All in all the nation of Haiti is serving the purposes of stretching the resources of other Caribbean nations to a point where they find it difficult to compete globally. This is a clear and obvious fact. It may not be a deliberate act of hindrance on the part of those Haitians looking for a better life, but the reality is that they are causing small nations like the Bahamas to experience financial issues that would not have existed if our population was allowed to grow normally, minus thousands of immigrants each year. For those of you who probably think by now that Bahamians are “picking on Haitians”, please name another group of immigrants who has created as many “villages” within Bahamian society as Haitians have.

Something has to be done here in The Bahamas - NOW. The test of whether we have waited too long is if we have a mass Haitian protest against the actions of a small country simply trying to protect the future well-being of its citizens (including those Haitians who are now legally Bahamian). So far any sort of rebellious action by illegal Haitians in response to mass deportations has only been left to the realms of speculation, but seeing how they can’t get their act together in Haiti, it’s bound to happen on an exponentially larger scale if we continue to wait any longer.

Yorick, I fully agree with this post. I just hope the Bahamas Government would take action before its too late. In fact many Bahamians already believe it is to late to stop these people from soon taking over this country!

I would suggest sending a copy of this post to every member of Parliament as well as to the Immigration Dept. Seems that many of your points are not known by them, or for some unknown reason they are not taking any decisive action with these points in mind!

I believe that we are in a very strange predicament. As more and more Haitians enter our society, the already overburdened system in place will inevitably buckle under their additional "weight". Those in this country who are left in a position to fend for themselves will end up being more protective of what they have and a mini civil war will probably break out...


This is a wonderful article on the Haitian situation, but it fails to suggest the answer to the question: WHAT DO WE DO AND HOW DO WE DO IT? Not knowing what and how is acting without a solution, it is like dealing with the problem at the end. Dealing with the problem by exporting the Haitians back to where they came from or where they belong, even though it shows our unrelenting determination it has not altogether worked out. The problem is still identified or viewed as a big and serious problem (even though it could be worst or better); so far this method has not worked, should we continue to do so this way? We are aware of the problem we are aware of the method which falters and we are equally desperate for the solution that works. Obviously rushing emotionally to achieve this goal is not the answer.

The way to successfully alleviate this problem must be properly assessed so that the best solution to this problem is identified and executed in the best practical, conscientious, humane and witty manner with a minimum amount of back lashing and drawbacks as possible. To continue shipping Haitians out or to continue refusing and refuting citizenship to Haitians raised Bahamian born individuals is not exactly the answer to helping the problem. To take an a legion to the Bahamian flag may be a good psychological idea, but it is only part of the answer to commit the Haitians to the Bahamian flag. What the Haitians faced in this country may far outweigh this idea (not as concentrated among the American people in America and perhaps that is why they may be more inclined to commit to the American flag). The Haitian people are at odds here and this is besides their rearing (education, vocational background, temperance etc.) but is at odds due to the unfairness and lack of equal opportunity withheld subject to the prejudice and fears of the Bahamian people, this Bahamian audacity does the flag idea very little good (perhaps this is the civil war you mention and perhaps it is this attitude which makes a conflict between the Haitians and the Bahamians inevitable).

If we ought to alleviate this problem and avoid conflict with our brothers, then, it is important that we act more effectively, more prudent and less emotionally in response otherwise we continue to burden ourselves economically and emotionally and continue feeding the problem slowly and unfortunately to the advantage of the Haitians only escalating the problem.

It is not the Haitian people that we hate; it is that we do not find pleasure in the burden that a lower level of an intellectual race of people bring to our environment or place upon our economy and health structure. If they were the Americans, Lithuanians, Russians, Germans, British or French etc (and we do have lots of them some who are pressing our economy and suppressing and deceiving the Bahamian people and yet I do not see as much fuss on this, more on this later). If the Haitians were white or if they were MDs or Attorneys or millionaires I am certain our attitude would not be the same or to this extreme.

So, then, I put fairness where fairness belongs! What do I suggest? As useful as it may be (or seem) to continue exporting the Haitians we must institute a program not only here but also in Haiti that educates a program of Bahamian culture and virtues. The end products are a more qualitative an upgrade race of Bahamian-Haitians that fits the standard and status of the Bahamian born population. I know that many of us do not like commentaries or articles like this unless it is beating up on the Haitians, but emotions only get us in trouble, it is probably why we are in the situation we are in right now. Eventually they will return, eventually they will be citizens, eventually and more likely than not the Haitians are going to take over this country by intergrading with our children and their children’s children, it is happening as we speak.

So, then, regardless to our fears, regardless to our emotions, it is inevitable. It is better we act wiser rather than worsen the problem with our emotions and personal response. Besides, the very attitudes that we practice against this race of people may be the very cause of the problem in the future. Our very attitude may be the very cause of a wave of back lashing of the Haitians should ever or whenever the Haitians gains strong hold.

...we must institute a program not only here but also in Haiti that educates a program of Bahamian Semitics (culture and virtues).

So we should all convert to Judaism, then? :sarcastic

If we ought to alleviate this problem and avoid conflict with our brothers, then, it is important that we act more effectively, more prudent and less emotionally in response otherwise we continue to burden ourselves economically and emotionally and continue feeding the problem slowly and unfortunately to the advantage of the Haitians only escalating the problem.

It is not the Haitian people that we hate; it is that we do not find pleasure in the burden that a lower level of an intellectual race of people bring to our environment or place upon our economy and health structure. If they were the Americans, Lithuanians, Russians, Germans, British or French etc (and we do have lots of them some who are pressing our economy and suppressing and deceiving the Bahamian people and yet I do not see as much fuss on this, more on this later). If the Haitians were white or if they were MDs or Attorneys or millionaires I am certain our attitude would not be the same or to this extreme.


Keep talking while your Bahamian culture gets watered down some more. The example must be set and set NOW. If they break the immigration laws of The Bahamas, then they have to pay the price for breaking them. This concept is SIMPLE - Nothing personal, just business. This country can't afford to give any more of them "credit". Don't overanalyze the situation, hopefully thinking we will find some halfway solution. Send them back to THEIR country!

But let me tell you something: When I get angrily stared down by someone who doesnt belong in my country in the first place, I take great offense. When I make attempts to help someone out and they take more than I offered without asking because somehow they think they deserve it, I take great offense. When I openly get insulted by a person who clearly shows that they do not like what is Bahamian, I take great offense. But guess what, no one is perfect, so it's cool. We originate from the same continent. They are my brothers and sisters.

Your statement of "whether they were white or MD's or attorneys" changing our attitudes towards deportation APPEARS at first glance to make sense, but it is not entirely factual (There ARE doctors and highly-skilled workers from Haiti coming here, by the way, and they do contribute greatly to our society once their legal status is attained). I once had a similar opinion that Bahamians were just being petty, small-minded and racist, but when you analyze illegal immigration from a numbers standpoint, we do not have as many "white", Chinese, Korean, Jamaican or Cuban immigrants to this country COMBINED as we have Haitians. Neither do those groups burden down our local government services (medical and education especially) as much as the illegal Haitian community. OPEN YOUR EYES! The argument of racism as to why we insist on sending Haitians back to their country is null and void. Many Bahamians used to fall for that GUILT-TRIP, but now when we go into certain areas and see that the population of that community is largely Haitian, the reality hits us like a bucket of cold water. Nah, we ain't ga fall fer dat no more! We are now facing the existence of a subculture that used to hide its illegality but NOW openly flaunts it, much to the detriment of our own Bahamian way. Where do you think their ultimate loyalty lies? Not with Bahamians. We are being exploited by victims of an unstable country, who clearly are taking advantage of our sympathy for their plight. The bottom line: They openly have broken the laws of a foreign nation and reasonably should expect that the government of this nation will punish them accordingly. We do not OWE them a better life. They OWE it to THEIR country of Haiti to stay there, get organized, and make things better for themselves! It shows a great level of foreign aggression when they come into The Bahamas and expect to be taken care of and allowed to stay without legally contributing.

It's time for enforcing some tough love in this country. Sometimes we have to do what is best for our own future. Stop with the pondering, dilly-dallying and deceitful cries of "Unfair, unfair! You want to send them back to their country 'cause you don't like them" - Please STOP 'cause that's not the case. Many Bahamians have Haitian backgrounds, but not everyone from Haiti can expect to come here looking for a new life. It's time for action in THEIR country and OURS! :sailing:

Well it seems as if the Christian council only speaks when it is neccessary or to gain popularity....... we are soon on the verge of a civil war in this country remember you heard it here first.......i have visited the Elethera island recently and have seen traditional Bahamian communities being replaced by the haitian community......one in the north.....known as black wood no Bahamian hardly dare go there......in Palmetto point there is at least five haitians to one bahamian.......believe it or not.....it seems also that the department of immigration is turning ablind eye to this situation everytime someone complains to them they always reply, there is no money to deal with it but however they always end up with a work permit after landing here illegally.......something that makes you go Hmmmmmm.......i wonder if thats a new racket :shhh: am saying to the minister to stop making these sweet speeches and get a hold of his officers and get them to do their jobs what they are paid to do...also with adequate funding to do so....because every community is being over run by illegal immigrants namely haitians who are sometimes lawless because of their culture soon bahamians s are going to take the law into their hands God forbid and that will be the day we have war in the bahamas bahamians against haitians think about the many in our different government agencies working, think about it..... we had two major hurricanes worth of fresh wind now is the time for some help and hope