hey vicky,

do you think or believe that society will ever come to the point of understanding and accepting GBLT's as society now accepts black people? even though racism is still alive and well it has decreased a thousand times over than in the past when blacks had different restrooms, schools, couldnt go to college etc.

Yes it is happening all over the world and here as well. :cutie: Freedom and equality is coming.

I dont think Black People & Gays can be used in the same content hun, thats just my 5 cents. Many may agree or disagree !!

My reason for my above comment is one is born black, white, asian etc but I honestly dont think one is born Gay....



true, but i wasnt lookin at it from that point of view. i was looking at it this way: for what ever reason people did not like black people. we were judged, looked down upon, treated as less etc this is the similar situaion gays etc are in. also did you know that some people blamed a black person for being born black, its true. also on some other thread there was a small discussion on being gay born with or not. i had the position that a person was born with sexuality (striaght or gay) but someone said something that changed my mind and i now take the stance that we just dont know. even though there is tons of studies out there, there is no evidence out there that says without a doubt a person is born straight or gay or it is developed. i am not going to argue with you on the issue but i just wanna pick you brain with these questions:

do you think that persons are not born gay becuase being gay doesnt aid in reproduction?

do you think that persons are born straight? (i use to belive without a doubt that we are born with sexuality and the reasons that persons came out gay or gender confused was becuase whatever chemicals and hormones that makes a boy a boy and a girl a girl mentally and sexually sometimes got switched eg. boy homemones in girl body vice versa) to me if a person was to take a side on the issue this is the most common sense and logical explaination.

do you think that people choose to be gay? (think about this why would someone choose this type of lifestyle ie [a lifestyle that disappoints your family, a lifestyle that society doesnt accept, the embarrasment etc] why have some people killed themselves over this, why have some people gone crazy wondering why they are attracted to the same sex and they dont wanna be, why do some just hurt silently.

Did you choose to be striaght? (think about your heterosexuality for a minute, what makes you want a man? [forget about all that its natural and thats the way God wants it crap.] can you help wanting a man, or is it just something thats in you that you just cant help)

have you ever heard a man that naturally sounds like a woman and vice versa for a woman? what do you think cuases this?

what makes you wanna wear womens clothes and do girly things?

have you ever seen a little boy (3-6 yrs old) that has no concept of sexuality yet he rather play with dolls and acts like a girl. vice versa for a little girl? what do you think cuases this?

do you think sexuality is developed as we grow up? (i think this is the least logical approach, becuase if it was true the majority of people would be bi-sexual, or attracted to animals, trees, inanimate objects etc.)

lastly, why do you think there is constant arguments on weather a person is born gay but very few debates on weather a person is born striaght?

anyone can respond to these questions not just LADYA becuase as a straight person exploring these questions helped me understand where a gay person or a gender confused person was coming from a lot better.

I Will Also Add This, I Can Accept The Color Of A Man's Skin, For I Believe We Are All One No Matter Race Or Color But I Do Not Have To Accept The Way A Man Lives His Life.


you sure dont, but also people musnt forget they have no right to look down on the way he lives his life. (i am not saying that you do, i was speaking in general terms) i think this is where the problem arises between gays and straights. straights feel that gays are trying to force their lifestyles on them which i think is simply not true. gay people only want to be able to do the same things straight persons do ie get married, hold hands in public etc without a heated protest and debate. if a straight thinks that when gay people hold hands etc that is forcing themselves on us, then using that logic we force oursevles on gays everyday 24/7. 99.99% of everything in our society favours hetrosexuality. and come to think of it i have never heard a gay say striaight people should live our way but many times i have heard a striaght person say these people need to live the hetro lifestyle what they are doing is wrong. who are we to say what someone else is doing is wrong. it cracks me up when straight people say gays are after our children. i be like "yeah, gays around the world are plotting on how they are gonna turn your little johnny or sue into a raging homosexual" they dont have other things to do.

all i know is it is just silly and everyone needs to mind their own business; let God deal with whomever, whatever, and in his time

have you ever seen a little boy (3-6 yrs old) that has no concept of sexuality yet he rather play with dolls and acts like a girl. vice versa for a little girl? what do you think cuases this?Have you ever seen a little boy (3-6 yrs old) that has no concept of death yet he will pull the wings off a butterfly or kill a cat?

anyone can respond to these questions not just LADYA becuase as a straight person exploring these questions helped me understand where a gay person or a gender confused person was coming from a lot better.



I read this thing a while back about homosexuality is developed in the mother's womb. A European study wanted to find the highest percentage of gays and they found them in Holland, during specific years. This large demographic consisted of children born during the Nazi occupation. The Dutch really got it bad, because they resisted. The Germans starved them out. Many died by starvation. Many were forced to eat tulip bulbs. It is in this background that the largest percentage of gays were born. The study concluded that extreme stress of the mother caused the fetus to have a tendency to be homosexual.

But I also found this: Vicky may not be 'transgendered' as a genetic condition. She just may be suffering from autogynephilia. It is possible that the common denominator linking transvestic fetishism and heterosexual, bisexual, and asexual gender identity disorder is autogynephilia, a male's tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman. So this may not be gender confusion or any of the myriad of unexplainable things. It is merely a psychiatric disorder. My source for this was: The Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry, Seventh Edition 2000. Kaplan, Sadock
Gender Identity Disorders
Richard Green, M.D., J.D. and Ray Blanchard, Ph.D.

So this may not be gender confusion or any of the myriad of unexplainable things. It is merely a psychiatric disorder.



:shaky:

I read this thing a while back about homosexuality is developed in the mother's womb. A European study wanted to find the highest percentage of gays and they found them in Holland, during specific years. This large demographic consisted of children born during the Nazi occupation. The Dutch really got it bad, because they resisted. The Germans starved them out. Many died by starvation. Many were forced to eat tulip bulbs. It is in this background that the largest percentage of gays were born. The study concluded that extreme stress of the mother caused the fetus to have a tendency to be homosexual.

But I also found this: Vicky may not be 'transgendered' as a genetic condition. She just may be suffering from autogynephilia. It is possible that the common denominator linking transvestic fetishism and heterosexual, bisexual, and asexual gender identity disorder is autogynephilia, a male's tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman. So this may not be gender confusion or any of the myriad of unexplainable things. It is merely a psychiatric disorder. My source for this was: The Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry, Seventh Edition 2000. Kaplan, Sadock
Gender Identity Disorders
Richard Green, M.D., J.D. and Ray Blanchard, Ph.D.

Very good you have done some research. But here is the catch I am not aroused by being dressed in part or in full as a woman. I was not aroused by this in the forth grade yet the gender identity was there. I was not aroused when I got married and my wife and I had on matching undies and stockings. I was on cloud nine that we shared this secret but not aroused. I am not aroused, yet I sit here in my nightdress and am typing. The disorder you speak of are commonly called fetish crossdressers. I do not get dressed to get off. It is daily presentation of my identity.
FYI I am diagnosed as a transsexual. The Dr explained being a transsexual is like taking a train to reach a destination that you don't know where it will end for you. However you know the last stop on this train is SRS (sex reassignment surgery) This was before I learned of what my Mother told me about my birth.

A few years ago a young lady (our families are friends)who lived with us for a few months had me do her makeup to go out one night. When I was finished she was very aroused when she saw her self and ended up not going to the party. But had her own with her boyfriend in her room. Would you say she had autogynephilia? After all she was aroused because she felt very fem and sexy. Hope this helps.
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html
Table 2
TG transitioners (w/o SRS): 1:200 1:1000

Oh and did the book tell you how one gets autogynephilia?????? It would be intersting to hear how one gets this disorder.

Anyone can respond to these questions not just LADYA becuase as a straight person exploring these questions helped me understand where a gay person or a gender confused person was coming from a lot better.


I will say this much BB
I was born a girl and my parents brought me up as such, sexuality was never discussed in our household for no one was confused about what lifestyle they had to carry out. I guess one has to live it to know it

I cannot debate any issues on if someone is "born" gay or "becomes" gay. I grew up knowing that there are males and then there are females ( no particular order of course ) My personal belief is if one thinks it one shall become it. As a child I was to busy chasing butterflies and climbing trees and living the life of a little girl and never had any thoughts of "girls" all I knew was I had to stay away from boys ( smile )

Personally I do not believe one is born gay and in my short time on this earth and having many encounters with lesbains and gay men ( encounters=conversations ) I am simply told by the majority of them that same sex realtionships or same sex encounters changed thier sexual desires and from there on in out they never went back.

And one more thing, I know quite a bit of full fledged Lesbians that either have a kid or had a man ! My reason for saying that is EXPOSURE to something NEW whether bad or good can change ones entire LIFESTYLE

I will say this much BB
I was born a girl and my parents brought me up as such, sexuality was never discussed in our household for no one was confused about what lifestyle they had to carry out. I guess one has to live it to know it
Hope you don't mind me responding to this.
I guess one has to live it to know it Is actually very good.
I cannot debate any issues on if someone is "born" gay or "becomes" gay. I grew up knowing that there are males and then there are females ( no particular order of course ) This is true many people are unaware of the human born with ambiguous sexes. AKA third sex or gender, hermarphrodite, eunuch, Why do you think you would be any different. My personal belief is if one thinks it one shall become it. As a child I was to busy chasing butterflies and climbing trees and living the life of a little girl and never had any thoughts of "girls" all I knew was I had to stay away from boys ( smile )

Personally I do not believe one is born gay and in my short time on this earth and having many encounters with lesbains and gay men ( encounters=conversations ) I am simply told by the majority of them that same sex realtionships or same sex encounters changed thier sexual desiresWere you ever so curious to try and find out why people enjoyed same sex encounters after they tried them?? My guess is no. Please answer this one. So what is it that made these gay and lesbians so curious to try same sex and not you????
Here is another thought. Look at some of the tribes in Africa that practice scarification. They see it as a thing of beauty, you would be grossed out and wonder why anyone would do such a thing. Their society gives them no choice. http://www.csuohio.edu/history/courses/his380/baker/body01.html
http://www.oceania-ethnographica.com/aust34.htm
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tattoos/photo9.html and from there on in out they never went back.

And one more thing, I know quite a bit of full fledged Lesbians that either have a kid or had a man ! ever heard of social pressure. How many closeted gay guys marry a woman to cover them selves. It is wrong and it is disastrous. Besides why should the feel they have to?? My reason for saying that is EXPOSURE to something NEW whether bad or good can change ones entire LIFESTYLE

Hope you don't mind me responding to this.
I guess one has to live it to know it Is actually very good

Mind ? Not at all, Its an open forum

Were you ever so curious to try and find out why people enjoyed same sex encounters after they tried them??

Interesting you would say that for my "thoughts" have changed so much from then when I was a child and to now, reason being T.V has exposed me to alot.

Please answer this one. So what is it that made these gay and lesbians so curious to try same sex and not you????

And not me ? Well because I am not willing to try "new" things I just stick to the same routine day in and day out.

How many closeted gay guys marry a woman to cover them selves ?

Quite a bit.

Have you ever seen a little boy (3-6 yrs old) that has no concept of death yet he will pull the wings off a butterfly or kill a cat?


i have never seen a child kill a cat before, also if you know any you need to get them help becuase it has been well documented that 99 percent of serial killers and murderers started off by killing domestic animals. also i am not trying to be difficult or argumentative but i dont see what you are getting at? are you saying that a child that has no concept of sexuality but acts in an opposite sex role does so becuase they are just a child?

I read this thing a while back about homosexuality is developed in the mother's womb. A European study wanted to find the highest percentage of gays and they found them in Holland, during specific years. This large demographic consisted of children born during the Nazi occupation. The Dutch really got it bad, because they resisted. The Germans starved them out. Many died by starvation. Many were forced to eat tulip bulbs. It is in this background that the largest percentage of gays were born. The study concluded that extreme stress of the mother caused the fetus to have a tendency to be homosexual.

But I also found this: Vicky may not be 'transgendered' as a genetic condition. She just may be suffering from autogynephilia. It is possible that the common denominator linking transvestic fetishism and heterosexual, bisexual, and asexual gender identity disorder is autogynephilia, a male's tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman. So this may not be gender confusion or any of the myriad of unexplainable things. It is merely a psychiatric disorder. My source for this was: The Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry, Seventh Edition 2000. Kaplan, Sadock
Gender Identity Disorders
Richard Green, M.D., J.D. and Ray Blanchard, Ph.D.


i would definatly say that GBLT is some kind of disorder, even though you may have been born that way it is definatly not natural. in the say way some one born mentally challange is not natural.

I will say this much BB
I was born a girl and my parents brought me up as such, sexuality was never discussed in our household for no one was confused about what lifestyle they had to carry out. I guess one has to live it to know it

I cannot debate any issues on if someone is "born" gay or "becomes" gay. I grew up knowing that there are males and then there are females ( no particular order of course ) My personal belief is if one thinks it one shall become it. As a child I was to busy chasing butterflies and climbing trees and living the life of a little girl and never had any thoughts of "girls" all I knew was I had to stay away from boys ( smile )

Personally I do not believe one is born gay and in my short time on this earth and having many encounters with lesbains and gay men ( encounters=conversations ) I am simply told by the majority of them that same sex realtionships or same sex encounters changed thier sexual desires and from there on in out they never went back.

And one more thing, I know quite a bit of full fledged Lesbians that either have a kid or had a man ! My reason for saying that is EXPOSURE to something NEW whether bad or good can change ones entire LIFESTYLE


you had such a childhood, becuase thankfully you were born normal. i have a annie who has a son by natural conception but she lives as a lesbian now. when people ask her why she has a son she tells them it was back when she was trying to live her life to please society and her family, even though she was married the lesibian feelings were still there

i would definatly say that GBLT is some kind of disorder, even though you may have been born that way it is definatly not natural. in the say way some one born mentally challange is not natural.


I can't wait to see the response to this one. :shaky:

Oh and did the book tell you how one gets autogynephilia?????? It would be intersting to hear how one gets this disorder.


the usual ... toilet seats .. door knobs .. casual unprotected sex ... broccoli .. being in a room when an autogynephiliac sneezes