It is really difficult to try to assert that there is in fact a God with all of the information that we have available to us today.

People now only believe in God because (a) it was ingrained in them from day one - meaning that they had no choice or (b) they are too scared and insecure to face life as it is and shape their own destiny or (c) some combination of both.

And if you choose to believe in God, you still have a problem in figuring out which of the 8,000+ different Gods worshipped around the world is in fact the real one.

As one supervisor in hell said in a South Park episode to all the confused Christians who ended up in hell wondering what went wrong: "Mormon - mormon was the right answer".

We could advance our society and our world so much faster if we could do away with this irrelevant and divisive nonsense called religion.

Originally posted by Proud Open Mind It is really difficult to try to assert that there is in fact a God with all of the information that we have available to us today.

Difficult for you maybe!
All I have to do is look at the lines in the palm of my hand and I know God exists. Ignorance is a sin!

Originally posted by Proud Open Mind People now only believe in God because (a) it was ingrained in them from day one - meaning that they had no choice or (b) they are too scared and insecure to face life as it is and shape their own destiny or (c) some combination of both.

Now you’re a mind reader?
May I ask who did this study and where can I get a copy of it?
As for me, I only understood who Jesus really was after the age of 20 and when I did; I decided to give my life to Him. Not because of what my parents or someone else told me it was because of what Jesus did in my life.
Originally posted by Proud Open Mind
And if you choose to believe in God, you still have a problem in figuring out which of the 8,000+ different Gods worshipped around the world is in fact the real one.

Jesus is God.
Again you are trying to read minds.
I never had a problem figuring that out.

Let me give you a little bit of information:
Our society and the world aren’t going forward it is going backwards. Not because of religion but because of one thing; Sin.

Your name says that you have an "Open Mind" but I don’t sense that.
I am 22 years old. How old are you?

Greetings Kingdom worker.

I am 35.

I am stating an opinion with my comments as to my assessment of regilious/spiritual persons. Thus there is no need for me or you to call upon a study to give an opinion.

Second, you nor anyone has any proof of the existance of God. Neither do I have proof that he/she/it does not exist.

What we all do is form a "belief" based on our observations, insights, education and experiences.

As to Jesus being God, you believe that. Fine. I believe that Jesus was a Jewish prophet and insightful religious teacher who was murdered because he was a threat to the religious establishment of the time. I believe that he still is dead. I believe that his followers deitized him and made him into a god.

As for the problems of this world: I don't believe that you can find anything more divisive than religion or that has led to more deaths and civil strife. Why? Because, although well meaning, religion (particularly the Western religions) is tribal in nature and exclusive. By that I mean that it seeks to establish a single true definition of God and anyone who doesn't subscribe to that thinking is doomed and ostracized.

And I'd be happy if you could explain to me why Jesus IS God and not Buddha or Allah!! Particularly if you could do so without reference to the Bible (because, of course, the Bible does say that) or to your own specific experience. In other words, outside of your own personal beliefs and the Good Book, do you have any other evidence that among the choices of Gods, that "Jesus" is the right one? How would you convince a Buddhist or a Muslim that there "scriptures" are wrong and yours in right?

Or if I decide to believe that the big ju-ju tree in my yard is in fact God, does that make it valid because I believe it? Or do I have to write the Ju-ju scriptures, have it bound with a somber black cover and gold trim, and then believe in the ju-ju scriptures first which, of course, would say that the Ju-ju tree is God?

To me at least, just believing something myself and seeing it in print ain't sufficient evidence of its existence. To me, there should be something more substantive.

Just my $.02

I am stating an opinion with my comments as to my assessment of regilious/spiritual persons. Thus there is no need for me or you to call upon a study to give an opinion.
You gave an answer as to the reason why people believe in God. Answers usually are the results of a study or survey so it is only fair for me to ask for the source.

My proof is not written only in the Bible but it is written all around me. If I was to feed you solid food right now you would choke on it so I will nurse you like the baby you are. I have evidence that God exists but what evidence do you have that He doesn't? What Bible do you have that explains why God is not real?


As for the problems of this world: I don't believe that you can find anything more divisive than religion or that has led to more deaths and civil strife. Why? Because, although well meaning, religion (particularly the Western religions) is tribal in nature and exclusive. By that I mean that it seeks to establish a single true definition of God and anyone who doesn't subscribe to that thinking is doomed and ostracized.
Thats not true.
The problems of this world are a direct result of rebellion against God. Most people don't want to follow the commandments and the principles that Most High laid down for our own protection so they seek to destroy it. God gave every man in this world the free will to choose what they want to believe and that includes you. If He wanted to; He could kill you and everyone else who opposes Him but because of the love of Jesus you can live the life of a nonbeliever.

The reason that you now live in a free society is a direct result of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Almost every righteous law that exist today came from the Bible. If men are such independent beings who do not need God then why use His laws in our society? The results would be a disaster.

If Jesus was dead then you would be dead and so would I (another reason I know God exists is because of the Grace that He shows to people like you who don't even believe He lives).
And I'd be happy if you could explain to me why Jesus IS God and not Buddha or Allah!! Particularly if you could do so without reference to the Bible (because, of course, the Bible does say that) or to your own specific experience. In other words, outside of your own personal beliefs and the Good Book, do you have any other evidence that among the choices of Gods, that "Jesus" is the right one? How would you convince a Buddhist or a Muslim that there "scriptures" are wrong and yours in right?

- Name one belief in this entire world whose God teaches us to love our enemies?
- Name one religion in this entire world whose God gave His only Son as a sacrifice for people who didn't deserve it?

- Name one religion in this entire world whose God gave His life for the very same people that nailed Him to the cross?

I can go on and on but there is none like Jesus.

As for me believing in God and you not; what am I loosing by believing that He does exist?

WOW Delroy,

There is some militants in you after all...good for you.

:D

Joe I see you are again arguing with religionists about God's existance. I believe it is quite impossible to prove a negative, so you may want to save your breath. The knowledgeable scientific minds who have given us wisdom and knowledge to live by have provided us with a wealth of information in many books and writings, but unfortunately for many persons, especially bahamians, it will probably remain hidden away unless revealed to them from the pulpit by their 'Godlike Pastors'. I personally do not believe in the existance of any god, christian or otherwise mainly because I lack the blind faith to accept such nonsense without objective evidence. My Thomasian approach to this subject, no belief without evidence, is not because of some personal tragedy or loss but because I weighed the scientific evidence with the 'spiritual evidence' and chose to accept the former.

As regard causality and our existance one of the Laws of Physics teaches us that matter or energy can not be created or destroyed therefore it is safe to say that the universe and all that it contains always existed in either form eg.
Albert Einstein sum it up in his famous equation energy is equal to matter times the speed of light (186,000 miles per second) squared (E=MC2). Therefore no god was needed to create anything that exist. There is a prevailing belief that evolution not only happens in biology but physics as well as in all of the known sciences. Genetic mutations and environmental factors are two of the primary forces behind everything. Not god. I know it is somewhat emotionally comforting to the untrained mind to believe in these superstitions about gods and devils because it allows them a simple explanation about this world in which we live. I personally am not a scientist but I find the wonders of the natural world far more fascinating than the spiritual monologues spewed forth from the pulpits each Sunday morning. I would rather watch 24 hours of the Science Channel (284 on the dish) than watch one minute of TBN where ever that's located. How anyone can accept as fact any event from the bible which just happened to have occured during a time when most of mankind was scientifically illiterate is just beyond me. Atheism may be unpopular in todays society but it is a much more rational approach to life than blind faith in god's existance.

:D WOW

I think that I have an idea what you are trying to say but allow me quote you a scripture from the my wee simple-minded Bible:

1 Corinthians 3:18
"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

21 Therefore let no man glory in men."

Just simple food for thought. :rolleyes:

I see we are still debating the existance of god. Joe Baboon, you will never convince these religionist that god is really just a psychological creation by man to explain the complexities of the universe by simple means. Mankind created god and not the other way. Unfortunately, religionists have either not taken the time to read some of the noted secular writings on this most important issue or have read and chosen to ignore them. Their knowledge about god is strictly based on blind faith not rational thought. Debating them is almost always fruitless because you are both operating from different perspectives. Despite the many inventions of science that bring some degree of comfort to our harsh existance on this planet, religionists still give god the glory. No amount of scientific proof will ever convince them otherwise. They have simply given up on the truth and are quite willing to accept a lie. I believe somewhere in their bible is written this same line. How ironic.

I do not believe in god, christian or otherwise because there is no objective evidence. If there is a god that exist, he is a deliquent parent and should be treated as such. No respect or worship, just made to pay child support for his prolong absence. I would rather worship the sun. At least its is dependable. always on time and it brightens my day. More importantly, it allows LIFE to flourish on this planet. The same can not be objectively said about god.

WOW:D

Delroy, I am trying very hard to stay out of this...but I say to you if someone of such great intelligence CHOSE not to believe in God, than let them go to HELL!!

dacy2003, I am sorry to also inform you that your biblical hell was also an invention of man. When Adam was disobediant, God's punishment for him was death, not eternal punishment in hell. If as your bible say, through Adam all have sinned, then it stands to reason that our punishment for sinning would be equivalent to Adam's, death not eternal hell. Originally in the Jewish religion there was no such place as hell. Only during the Israelites captivity in Babylon did hell emerge as part of their religious vernacular. The mixture of Babylonial pagan religion and culture played an instrumental role in developing the idea of hell which you read about in the Old and New Testament. So therefore dacy2003 if you accept the concept of hell as real then you must accept it pagan origins as real and everything that it entails. But of course being the spiritually clean person that you are, you probably won't.

There are better alternatives to clean, purposeful living than religion. Humanism is one I can readily think of. But nooo! How can we rely on our own devices? How can we be so boastful and proad and actually think for
ourselves, use our minds to solve problems? The very simple reason is that it works. We have tried religion for a very long time with sometimes devastating results, but we continue on. Why do we continue to inflict this emotional and physical burden upon ourselves when life is hard as it is now. We have only one life to live. We ought to live it to the best of our OWN abilities and stop relying on imaginary gods for spiritual guidance .

WOW:D

You've got it all figured out, don't you! With all your information and answers - why do you call yourselves "truthseeker"?

You are so full of information, I'll bet you're just bursting...:D

A very interesting day is ahead of all...so we'll see.

May He who created you, me, the trees, the stars, and the sun be praised....forever... until that day;)

Gods' desire is for all men to be saved.

You never know; this Truthseeker guy we are talking to might be the next Billy Graham. So lets all help in the effort to start his ministry by speaking the truth that he now seeks into his life.

I will begin by answering that bit about Hell:
Jesus said in Matthew 25 and 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels”.

You see Truthseeker? Hell was never created for man or by man, but man inherited it through sin along with every other punishment that man got. Jesus also said that “A slave is not greater than his master” so they who are slaves to satan will face the same judgment he will. Man caused his own punishment and not God. In-fact; our punishment could have been greater!

If God was such a cruel God why did He not just wipe Adam off the face of this earth and start over again? Why didn't God just format us like a hard drive and do a reinstall? Because He still loves us even after we have sinned. From the moment we sinned against God He immediately started to plan our salvation. And that salvation came through the blood of Jesus Christ. Now it is possible for all men to be set free from sin.

Do you want to know how it feels to be free from sin?

Forgive me dacy2003 if I happen too read to much for your liking. I believe the bible states that you should study to show yourself approved. Why does the truth about your religion bother you so much that you would wish me go to your make-belief hell? The day of reckoning of which you speak neither you or I will be around to witness it. 5 billion years from now the sun will exhaust its nuclear fuel, expand and engulf the earth incinerating all within and that is how this earth will end. How do I know this? The evidence is out there in space. Dying stars exploding and probably taking with them any nearby habitable planets are everywhere in the universe to see. Jesus won't return on a cloud taking with him his faithful servants to heaven. There is no such place as heaven or hell for that matter. No gods or devils. Only us in the vast universe with its countless galaxies, stars and planets. Humans are an accident of nature. Blind chances brougth you here so be thankful you happen to be the lucky one. Our purpose is not to worship some invisible spirit but to create and shape our own destinies however we chose. As long as we don't hurt anyone else during the process.

Sorry Delroy, I have already freed myself from the shackles of religious superstitions. I do not wish to be chained again. But thanks anyway for the offer. May I also offer you a chance at freedom. The chance for rational thinking and discourse. The chance to put aside your simplistic views about this world in which we live and embrace the free scientific knowledge available to all. Not dogma but objective, verifiable evidence. Anyway gatta go now we'll chat later.

Guess what, you are joking!

You want to select which part of the Bible to quote...dont play games with me.

The Bible calls you a FOOL and I say AMEN!

Delroy dont compare this over-informed "just happened by chance...luckly to be here..." someone just out there floating around...wise guy/gal to Mr. Billy Graham.

Of course God is not willing that any should parish...He also have a plan for those who reject His Son. David prayed for God's enermies to be his enermies and committed to hate them with a perfect hatred...so please.

Mr. turthseeker John 17:17...God's word is true whether you believe it or not. You are a joker....the Bible says that knowledge puffs up and boy are you full of it.

When you start spreading your scientic nonsense and challenge the existance of MY GOD, the gloves are OFF!!!

Delroy Billy Graham is who he is because he chose to believe, he could have reject the truth of the Bible. The Bible declares that the Holy Spirit will drawn you to the TRUTH!. IF He is not doing the drawning, than you and I can not do any to help Mr. "KnowItAllButStillYetSeekingTruth"

You Dont want the truth, you want to have your way...go ahead break a leg!!!!

My sincere pray for you is that you Meet the God That I Know, love and fear, and may He not be in a good mood


Next topic PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!



:D :D :D :D :D