Excellent Post, truthseeker!

The sad thing about too many spiritual folk is that they have never read or exposed themselves to anything that fundamentally differs from the drivel they have had handed to them from birth.

But, as I'm sured you've realized, most people prefer to live on Fantasy Island rather than deal in reality! My most fundamental problem though with our strain of religious thought is that it perpetuates a culture of dependency, where people believe that something else (GOD) will provide for them. It robs them of personal accountability and the capacity to have enough faith in themselves to reach their potential ('cause they always hearing about what awful unworthy creatures they are!!)

What modern history is showing though is that the influence of organized religion is on the decline. As people progress, I am confident that our descendents will wipe this scourge off of the face of the earth. At least that is my hope!

:D

I guess it's true "great minds think alike":rolleyes:

And ProudOpenMind...hmmm..what's in a name..........:D :D :D :D

I lived on Fantasy Island most of my life and I can tell you right now that I never saw Mr. Roarke or Tattoo there in boa-ties ready to grant my every wish.
In fact; Fantasy Island was a very lonely place until Christ came and rescued me.

Ask a scientist why gravity keeps us down instead of up? Ask them this question also: What is a Force? You and I both know that things that do not have life cant move on there own or balance themselves. And if you have life; who gave it to you? Was it something that was dead? Thats what the Evolutionists say. Like something dead can give life.

What do you think made the “Big Bang” happen? Was it gases in outer space like scientist say? If thats so, then who left the gas running or who lit the match?

If this world was created spontaneously without no special thought then what purpose am I living for? Why do I go to work? Why do I plan for tomorrow? What is stopping another Big Bang from happening right now like it did in the begining? If I didn't believe that God created this world I would be afraid to step foot outside.

I have a Bible that explains all of these “mysteries” what scientists are still trying to figure out.

1 Corinthians 3:18
"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.

dacy2003 I am sorry you feel this way about my personal beliefs, but once again your attitude reinforces my view of religionists as intolerant and extremely belligerent people. Now if you were in my camp, we would agree to disagree and that would be the end of the debate. I would not have asked Darwin to turn you back into a frog. Do not allow my words to offend your religious sensibilities because these are just words used to convey my thoughts to you. I am a man, 36 years old with a wife and two wonderful kids. Do you really wish for your ill-tempered god to do me in, leaving my family fatherless? Are you not directed to love your enemies and do good to those who spitefully use you? I am absolutely mortified to hear such callous words uttered from the lips of a christian. :hot:

Truth is a something we all should seek. To you I may sound omnicient but to my friends, I am just an ordinary bloke. Now go in peace until we chat again.

Lets not turn this conversation into anything personal.
If we were all sitting down together in a room discussing this topic I know that we would all be laughing at one another and having a good time.

Forums tend too make people seem to serious and uncaring sometimes when we that really isn't the case.

Delroy, I'm jesting. I am being facetious. I don't really believe dacy2003 means me any harm, in fact I think my intelligence intrigue her. I certainly wish her no harm. Every now and then, during the course of a long day at work when I'm sitting alone in my office away from the distractions, I come to bahamasissues.com for some mental release. That's basically it! Not looking to meet anyone. Just chatting online.:D

I know. Das cool. :cheers:
If it wasn't for all you nonbelievers I would properly be doing something less constructive but now I have to stick my head in my Bible every time you come in the forum. :p

Thanks to you'll I study more. So keep up the good work. :D

If we needed God to create the big bang and the universe and all these wonderful things, then who created the amazing god that could do these things?

If the answer is that god always existed, then could not the universe always have existed in some form or the other?

Why is god needed for there to be a universe? You can't use the argument that something must have created us, because then you have to answer the question: What created the creator?

And using the Bible to justify the existance of God is circular argument. You can't use the book supposed written by god and arguing for the existance of god as proof god.

That's like me, MJ, writing a book saying that I am God and then using that book as proof that I am God because the book says so! To prove that I am god, I would have to find some evidence outside of the book to back up my assertion.

At least THIS is a fairly simple concept that you must be able to wrap your head around.

What you say?

And I endorse your sentiment and the one by Truthseeker that says we should keep it positive and agree to disagree in the most agreeable manner.:D

And Truthseeker, it's good to see that there are more like me around this town who can break free from the shackles!

originally posted by Proud Open Mind
Why is god needed for there to be a universe? You can't use the argument that something must have created us, because then you have to answer the question: What created the creator?

I was waiting on that question.

The Bible starts off like this:
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God!"
I don't see any other name before His name so there is none before Him.

If I was an ant (which I am compared to the Most High) my mind wouldn't have the capacity to even start to understand something so big and out of my league. An ant doesn't have any idea who we are and we cant even begin to tell them because their understanding is far less than ours. The same thing happened to man. When sin entered into the world our mind was degraded tremendously and is still degrading.

Adam knew God personally before he sinned against Him and I am sure that God told him almost everything about Himself and answered all of his questions. Adam's mind had the capacity to hold all the information that God gave to him. We lost that connection with God and became like ants on the ground.

God however had a plan to restore our minds to its original state so that we wont have no need to ask questions like, “Who created Him?” or "Who am I?", "Where I came from" or "Where am I going?" That plan was His word which He wrote through men in the Bible. Only through the Bible can we know the origin of God and the Bible says that “before God there was noting”.

Allow me to ask you some questions.
Who told you that you are a human? A book or a person, a teacher maybe? Ok; then who told them that they are human?
Who started all of this name calling anyway? What else did man tell you? Who God is? Or man created God?

If an ant was to give me advice; would I take it? No I wont!
I would however take the advice of the One who is able to crush that ant and the nest also.

All who believe in God knows God. Therefore I have no need to ask that question because it is written.
1 Corinthians 2:16
For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Find me another book that tells more than the Bible.

Originally posted by Proud Open Mind
And Truthseeker, it's good to see that there are more like me around this town who can break free from the shackles!
There are a few of out there who haven't been brainwashed yet.

Everytime I hear a religious person arguing for their religion, the Southpark episode with Johnny Cochran pops into my head.
Originally posted in defense of $diety
Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it, that does not make sense. Why would a wookie, an eight foot tall wookie, want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more importantly you have to ask yourself, what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me, I'm a lawyer, defending a major Union society, and I'm talking about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and Gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense. And so you have to remember when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the emancipation proclomation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit.

My apologies to all the Christians I just pissed off, but at least we don't feed you to the lions anymore.

There goes the neighborhood. :raw:

WOW

Mr. Truthseeker Delroy and I are of two different houses or tribes...I am of the House of King David, a mighty warrior and a Worshipper of the Most High God, who is also called TERRIBLE!

So while Mr. Delroy will tell you about the loving side of our GOD, I will remind you that HE is also known by HIS WRATH and DESTRUCTION, by some.


For you see...HE IS JUST AWESOME, TOTALLY.

I love MY GOD, all that I know about HIM.

Just how HE spoke everything into being, HE can cancel everything.

Anyways...why are you trying to use the scripture to keep me at bay...beside if MY GOD does not exist...what's to be sooooo concern about...dont you have the power to raise yourself up again;)

I am not using the scriptures to keep you at bay, only to engage you on your turf because you don't accept mine. I am hardly concern about your god doing something terrible to me. Wherever did you get the notion that I am able to raise myself up again. I believe only your god was given those powers. I possess no such supernatural powers.

Proud Open Mind it is only a matter of time before their eyes and ears are opened and the gospel of science are given to them so that they may be able to discern truth from fiction. Then our numbers will grow to where it should be in this land of ours given to us by our forefathers. Sounds religious but I couldn't help myself.

When I was a child, I behave and thought like a child but when I became an adult I kept some of those childish ways just in case.

Delroy you never seem to be able to answer any questions without referring to your bible why is that? Refrain for the moment and answer me a few questions.

1) Where are the original manuscripts of the Old and new Testament?

2) Who are the actual authors of the bible? Names, occupation and bithdate would do here.

3) Who decided to put all 66 books into one book and why?

4) When did this occur?

I only ask these questions because if the bible is the basis of your arguments regarding god's existance then I need to know these facts about it.

Truthseeker,

Delroy will no doubt come back with some quote from the Bible!

He doesn't understand the concept of circular reasoning and that you can't use "god's book" to defend god!

I asked him to give me evidence outside of the Bible and what does he do: Answer me with Genisis 1. Well, I believe that Genisis is still in the Bible.

Most Christians don't study and they would not realize that the Bible was assembled at a conference (Council of Sanhedrin, I think it was) when men picked from among a large group of scriptural writings which books would end up in the Bible.

They left of books such as the Gospel of Thomas - another gospel written about the life of Jesus. Did you know that Delroy? There is a whole gospel that is missing!

Then what about the books of the Apocrypha (sp?). Those are the books which are in the Catholic and Anglican bibles, but not in the prostentant bibles.

Then of course, there is the issue of the King James Version of the Bible - which many Christians hold as THE ONLY legimate English translation. They would never study and research to see that this sacred translation was motivated by political interests.

The sad thing is that very few Christians know anything about the history of their religion or their sacred book. Moreover, they don't realize how the translations from the original texts were manipulated to cater to specific interests at that particular time. One example was the mistranslation of "young girl" into "virgin". This one mistranslations has led to a whole doctrine of immaculate conception. Amazing??

But then again, religion does appeal to people who want a simple explanation for everything and worser still, they want other people to tell them (pastors, rabbis, etc.) what these explanations should be. They don't want to study to "show themselves approved".

originally posted by Truthseeker
Delroy you never seem to be able to answer any questions without referring to your bible why is that? Refrain for the moment and answer me a few questions.

I was waiting on this question also and I am never disappointed. I am not psychic but when you know the word of God you tend to know the next move of the enemy.

You must understand why I use this principle of the scriptures in every word I say.
Even Jesus Christ; when being tempted by satan used scriptures from the Old Testament and nothing else to answer the words of the devil. If I were to use my own words then I will be telling God that I know more than He does, which is a sin. So; NO! The Bible contains the mind of God and my own words limit me so I will use His.

The Bible is also my sword. What do you prefer me to do? Drop my sword of righteousness and break a tamarind switch to beat you with while you cut me to pieces with your axe of half truths.
You would like that wouldn’t you? (Not speaking to you but that unbelieving spirit within you)
The only way you can get me to stop using the word of God is to “Pry it from my cold, dead hands”.

originally posted by Truthseeker
1) Where are the original manuscripts of the Old and new Testament?

2) Who are the actual authors of the bible? Names, occupation and bithdate would do here.

3) Who decided to put all 66 books into one book and why?

4) When did this occur?

These questions are too easy for me Truthseeker. I have the study materials to answer these questions at home. I will post them for you later today.

And to you Proud Open Mind:
The word of God is complete!
If I were to tell you how many people died just to get the Bible translated to English would you believe it?
If I were to tell you the manner in which they died would you be able take it?

Answer this question:
If 66 men in 66 different countries at different times each carved out one piece of a puzzle that they never saw completed what are the likelihood of each piece fitting perfectly with the other?
Almost impossible? Not for God because He gave us an example with the Bible. He alone knew the complete picture, how each piece of the puzzle should look and exactly where to place them. He chose each writer according to their nature. Who knows a son better than a loving Father? God knew why He chose Moses to write Genesis and David to write Psalms. I can see now why He chose Paul to write the book of Romans. Who better to testify than a person who is of their own kind and Paul was a Roman. Because of his wisdom I know why God chose Solomon to write the book Proverbs. All of these men though they wrote the Bible were inspired by One God. David said it best in Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD is Perfect, the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple".

Whatever intentions King James had is not my concern. I however know that the intensions of man never detours the intensions of God. If you think that the Bible was written by the wisdom of man; you thought wrong. A man can read the Bible for a million years and never fully grasp it.
If there are any other so called “Lost Books” out there I don’t need them because what I have now is sufficient to answer all of your questions. Do you know how many books the devil has tried to add to the Bible? The Quran is one of them, also the book of Morman (a so called other testament of Jesus Christ) and the so called Lost Books of Moses . I can tell you now that God is not forgetful and what isn’t there now is not needed.

I don’t base my belief upon translations for if I did that I would have been deceived a long time ago because there are many false Books scattered thought the world even some that claim to be based upon the King James version. Therefore I base my belief upon the Holy Spirit who dwells within me and He gives me the discernment to what is a truth from a lie. I placed my trust in God a long time ago to lead me in the right direction so that I would not fall victim to false doctrines and counterfeit Bibles. He hasn’t failed me yet!
Right now because of the Spirit of discernment within me I can look at any Book and I can tell whether it is of God or not. You, however, who have Christ knocking at the door of your heart can fall for anything.