Let me try one last time with you Delroy before I go. The poor people back in biblical time were not illiterate because they accepted the stories of the bible. They were illiterate, could not read or write, because they were not taught to read or write. You obviously read my posts and by your written response to them, this indicates to me that you are not illiterate. I also do not believe you are stupid just misguided.

The event that is occuring today is the overt attempt by the political and religious establishment in the Bahamas to set moral and religious laws for everyone based on the Judeo-Christian philsophy without regard to alternative views, religious or otherwise. While some of these laws may be good in and of themselves, others infringe upon our individual freedoms as well as show total disregard for human rights. This political/religious establishment would like for all of us to think and behave alike so their means at controlling us would be made much easier. Religious and political dissent is discouraged by our leaders. We are coerced into accepting their authority as divine. Remember the phrase 'God give this land to the PLPs'. Remember Bishop Neil Ellis' admonishment to his flock to vote PLP in last year's election or get out of his church. The PLP, shortly after winning the election, assembled in Bishop Ellis' church not to chastise him for his statement but to thank and worship with him. Remember Pindling was considered Moses and Ingraham was considered Joshua. These are attempts to have us believe in their divine authority by juxtaposing their political personas with biblical ones

I follow world news very closely and from what I have seen and read there is a great deal of turmoil in the Mideast which to me is not an indication of christianity flourishing or the prophetic return of the messiah as you have indicated. I don't know where you get the idea that Jews all over the world are turning to christianity. I read many articles indicating otherwise. Jews are not becoming christians but have simply given up on their faith. I know you would like to believe what you wrote but unfortunely for you it is false. Anyway you and dacy2003 enjoy your independence celebrations and until we write again peace be with you.

One statement by one contributor to this debate that stands out is: "Prove your faith". I'd like to offer this challenge to any that does not believe in the existence of God and obviously does not know Him: Do you know what an orange tastes like? If you answered yes, the only way you would know is because you have eaten one. Faith in God is the same: unless you have taken a bite how could you know what it tastes like! I encourage you; no dare you to try God then reveal your experince to the rest of us. How? Begin by telling someone you want to taste the orange or simply asks for a bite on your own! I look forwarding to hearing you testify about how sweet the orange tastes!!

God Bless.
:angel:

I don't see how tasting an orange is going to prove gods exist. But if eating oranges or fruits work for you then by all means continue. At the least you are eating healthy.

Dear Joe & Truthseeker

Is Plato right when he said more than Two Thousand yeas ago, that atheism is "a disease of the soul before it becomes an error of understanding".
The three different ways that atheism is learn in the school system today.

1. Dogmatic atheism denies the existence of God positively. It says , as Feuerbach did, "There is no God... it is as the sun and as evident as the day that there is no God, and still more that there can be none"
2. Skeptical atheism says the mind of man is not capable of forming any concetion of God or discovering His existence. This is a position similar to agnosticism, which simply admits it does not know whether there is a God.
3. Critical atheism takes the position that there is not sufficient proof of the existence of God. This is a remarkable , preposterous stand to take, in view of the almost infinite orderliness, variety, and vastness of the universe. How could all this be, without an infinite, omnipotent Creator?

If we learn these things about atheism in school, we learn something else about life. We learn that atheism is a forlorn (sad or lonely) gloomy (dark, depressing) way of living life. G. J. Romanes addits this as he says: "When at times I think, as think at times I must, of the appalling contrast between the hallowed glory of that creed which once was mine and the lonely mystery of existence as now I fine it-at such times I shall ever feel it impossible to avoid the sharpest pang of which my nature is susceptible." That poignant admission of him and many other atheist alike, knows with-in themselves that there is a void (a empty place that needs to be fill). All atheist trys to fill this with something other than God, but some how it just never gets fill.
I thank God every day that He has given me everything that pretain to life (why we are here). That is some thing Science just cannot give us, a reason for living, having kids, and loving one another, even our enemies, and the enemies of God. Do you love your "ENEMIES". or should I ask can you?

Mario Smith


So atheism is a sad lonely dark and depressing way of life as you see it? The problem with your premise is that it is patently false. No amount of platonic philosophy or personal denial is going to convince me that any gods exist. I find fulfillent in this wonderful natural world of ours. Marcio, you find it in a book full of superstitions and fanciful stories. I find my fulfillment in relationships with my family and friends. Marcio, you find it in the lies and half-truths sold to you in the marketplace called the Church. The emptiness I feel within is probably hunger for real food. Knowledge and understanding which your preternatural god deemed unnecessary for human consumption are the foods that I crave. If atheism is a desease of the soul, I will live with my infection seeking no spiritual remedies. Let my understanding remain in error until your imaginary god, in person, declares to me the truth because so far I have been unconvinced by your reasonings.

Truthseeker & Anyone Else

In some way I believe that you I.D. name says a lot about yourself. Truth seeking is what every person on this earth should be doing daily. If you did not know already let me inform you and everyone that read this messages that the God of the Bible told us to test all things in light to the truth that He has already given unto us.
Lets take a look at the word “Evidence”.
The New American Webster Dictionary. 1, the means of proving or disproving an alleged fact; testimony, exhibits, ect. Offer as proof; an indication of proof.
Now with that in mind are you or anyone else ready to look at the “Evidence” of what you believe in, to the “Evidence” of the Bible?
RULES

1.We most present our “Evidence” in the same way that something or someone would be qualified as acceptable “Evidence” in courtroom.

The called has been sent out to those who do not believe in the God of the Bible or in that the Bible is His Word

Truthseeker, you obviously missed the point . I used the metaphor of having to eat something before you can know what it taskes like! Likewise, I suggest that you try God (i.e. - first accept that he may indeed exist; speak with him (through prayer) then decide if he is real or otherwise! I'm praying for you to one day experince the blessings from God that I have realized since developing a personal relationship with Him!

God Bless.

Junkanoo Princess

I got your metaphor. What makes you believe that I have not travelled that muddled road before<trying god>. I don't accept gods on faith alone. For something so very important <god's existence> to the human race, I find it extremely difficult to understand why god does not reveal himself to everyone today, not only to some tribal people in the backwaters of civilization 2000 years ago. God should reveal himself today so that we may scrutinize him with our modern means of investigation before we precipitously accept his claims of divinity. I do not desire any type of relationship with a silent spirit be it personal or otherwise. If you still wish to pray for my blessings then ask your god specifically for some cold hard cash.

Marcio Smith

Every religious society since the beginning up to our present time believed they were special or chosen people by their gods. Every religious society believed their gods were the only true gods. These powerful and just gods doled out punishment to enemies and rewarded worshippers. These concept were not new when the bible was written.

If your bible is carefully read next time, you will discover more than one god of the Israelites. Now pray tell me, which one should I believe or accept as genuine and why? Why are the christian gods more real than the Aztec gods or the Greco-Roman gods or the Persian or the Arawak Indians' god.
Also it bears remembering, the Jews in Jesus' time did not accept him as their promised messiah because he did not fit the mold/character. He was a fake. Assuming of course the stories about Jesus Christ are historical/factual which I seriously doubt. Jews do not accept human-gods or the Trinity. This is a pagan religious system whether you believe it or not, probably started by the Egyptians with their pharoahs and continued throughtout history by many other peoples of the world.

The evidence for god's existence that christians claim is in the bible is hearsay and shoddy at best and therefore would not stand up in any civilized court of law. The evidence of evolution is acceptable and demonstrative and can withstand the scrutiny of any court hearings. Science illuminates us with its impartial investigation of the facts but the bible declares without proof. If the evidence in the bible is reliable then tell me why did it take Europe 1000 years to emerge from the Dark Ages. Why did not the bible provide us with useful knowlege about medicine, egineering, law, mathematics etc. The human race should now be exploring the universe and colonizing other planets but because of religion our growth has been slowed because we hold dearly these fables as the sacred word of god. I could go on for eternity about the bible and god's shortcomings but I will stop here and await your reply.

I am enjoying this debate.

It is a debate worth having.

I am appreciating the commentary by all concerned. I do appreciate Marcio attempting to bring some intellectual rigour into the argument. It is a refreshing break from the others whose whole argument is that "the Bible says, the Bible says....".

As an athiest, I can say that it is wrong to characterize our belief as dark and gloomy or depressing. The athiests I know tend to be happy and progressive persons, who manage to interact in a principled way with persons around them. That there are miserable athiests - of course there are! But who don't know miserable Christians??

It is useless for Christians to talk about evidence that god exists because (1) they already have been taught from birth that god exists and (2) they interpret things around them as evidence to back up this belief that they already have. So therefore, the beautiful sunset becomes evidence of god's existance. And even if they believe that a god must have created that sunset, they still cannot conclude that it was Jehovah and not Allah or Zeus or the Sun god of the Zulu tribe.

originally posted by Proud Open Mind
It is useless for Christians to talk about evidence that god exists because (1) they already have been taught from birth that god exists and (2) they interpret things around them as evidence to back up this belief that they already have. So therefore, the beautiful sunset becomes evidence of god's existance. And even if they believe that a god must have created that sunset, they still cannot conclude that it was Jehovah and not Allah or Zeus or the Sun god of the Zulu tribe.

Your reading minds again Mr. :gi:

Trutheseeker: you can actually ask Him yourself! He provides all that I need. I will however, keep you in my prayers.

God exists within. I think it has a lot to do with our concience and inner strength. It's very simple...nothing complicated at all. If you believe then it will be so for you......if you don't believe then that is how it is for you. I think a person has the right to choose not to believe in God and likewise a person has the right to believe in whatever they want. Makes no difference to me. Can't we all just get along. Make love not war. We can respect every persons beliefs or non-beliefs. No one is greater or lesser than anyone else because of his or her beliefs. We are all equal and the same no matter where we came from or what we believe.:angel:

I agree 'Rodney King' that we should all just get along but christians don't operate like that. They have been taught it's their way or the highway. As long as there is life here in these limbs, I will proclaim to the world the foundation of lies from which christianity was established. To leave christians alone is financially and emotional expensive because they are always trying to sell there brand of the 'truth' to the hopeless and pennyless souls among us. Christians are always trying to shape society's morals from their perpectives. In addition Churches are always getting preferential tax exemption on their buildings materials by the government thus rendering a greater burden for the rest of us to bear. Is it not time someone speaks up about this financial injustice or are we quite satisfied with the status quo. To be continuously pillaged by this religious behemoth. Christianity is not as benign as some would have you believe, so it is difficult for me to just sit back and just get along.

Hi all this is an interesting thread.
First off let me let you know where I am coming from.
I do believe that there is something that has put all this together. Call it what you will. I call it the creator, not male or female. As far as Christianity goes it has been corrupt since the day Emperor Constantine organized it.
These so called Christians that follow the faith with out knowing the history are just not knowledgeable enough to debate with. Most of them can’t even live by the laws they expect other to live by. The organized religion call Christianity is built on the murder of men women and children, lies and theft.
To this day so called Christians have to have someone to hate, condemn, and outcast from society.
They are picking on gay, lesbian, transgendered and bisexuals now.

Just for you to know I am transgendered.

Vicky

Thanks for letting me know you are transgendered. I believe I found this out in one of your previous posts. Too bad you are still holding out hope for a creator. I would think because your kind has been persecuted to a large extent by a religious society endorsed by a god-inspired bible you would not want any part in religion. You will never be accepted by religious folks in your present condition. The only way I see acceptance for you happening is if all christians were 'reborn' more tolerant and respectful. And we know dat ain gon happen'.