Our we being influenced by America when it comes to race?

[EastEnd_Baby]

Since this Sir Stafford Sands thing has come up, I've been thinking about this whole black- white bahamian thing. I came to America bout two years ago for college and I got a first hand view experienced prejudice. No it wasn't from someone white actually it was from a black american who had the gall to tell me I'm not black because I told him that it was the black mentality that was mostly holding him back from success and not the white man. Needless to say we got into a heated debate and finally took it to my black english profesor who told him that of course i was black anyone with eyes could see that. Then he turned to me and told me that of course the caribbean was different because we hadn't suffered as hard as black americans. At that time my thought was I am glad I come from the Bahamas where the white- black thing isn't a issue like in the U.S. Because of the whole bill changing thing I searched the net and bahamian news for articles or opinions on racism in the Bahamas. My search was very interesting I found that alot of young bahamians saying that race isn't such a big issue but at the same time I saw a few articles stating that racism is alive and well in the Bahamas. I would like to share a part of a speech i came across written in 2000 by Fred Mitchell. It was given at a college in Wisconsin. "I say this because it is the current fashion not to speak the name race in The Bahamas but then again it might not be the current fashion alone. At one level of society in The Bahamas, it has always been impolite to mention race and that is particularly amongst the brown skinned middle class or mulatto group and those pure Africans associated with them who saw the African theme as a threat of some kind to their dominance."
I found it completely interesting and also thought he was being subtly prejudice. Maybe it because my great-grand mother was Half white/Native American. It could be the fact that I have aunts who would all call themselves black even though some are lighter than Mango-skin. Lastly it could be that my mother is mango-skinned with curly black hair while I am brown-skinned with dark brown eyes. I don't now the reason why I haven't seen race but character and personality for sixteen years. Is it because race issues have been swept under the rug like some politicians say or are they using american views to persuade us to agree with the things they do?

[Rory]

everyone is different, regardless of the color of the skin.

[Teniel]

I am glad that the Bahamas is not a society 'hung up on race'. Apart from the physical differences associated with race, race itself is a social construct that seems to divide more than it does to unify. This world would indeed be a better place if we were not aware of race. And I am glad that our neighbours to the north have not influenced us that greatly. Slavery, Segregation, Lynching, KKK etc, has has left a wound still smarting for generations among American Blacks. While we here in the Caribbean have not experienced such a degree of hate and indifference.

When we here in the Bahamas were celebrating the emergence of a Black Majority Government, American Blacks were fighting to get a seat at the front of the bus, to get served at a diner, etc. These two different scenarios have bred opposing mentalities when it comes to race among American Blacks and us Caribbean Blacks. So as a Caribbean Black, race issues is the last conversation I want to hold with an African American, because to sufficed to say alot of them do have issues, that has been bred over hundreds of years.

[Ting-um]

EastEnd:

Yes. The Bahamas is being poisoned by race issues in America. I'm not saying that slavery didn't leave its mark on the Bahamas. Being a dark-skinned Bahamian, I know quite well that it has. But then the idea of race has made it even uglier. I think Teniel is right also. As a Bahamian, I have no idea what it feels like to be a minority. I don't think any Bahamian knows what it feels like to be a minority apart from our grandparents and great grandparents. So I can empathize with african americans in that regard. But Bahamians stopped being minorities when we stopped thinking like minorities. African americans can't seem to do that. They are too hung up on this black stuff. I've had several arguments. I've even been "black-listed".

First of all, "black" is only an acknowledgement of "white". So african americans will never drop that mentality as long as they are being defined as the opposite of somebody else living right next to them. If anybody knows african history, can you refer a tribe of people that ever referred to themselves as "black"?? I doubt you can. Black didn't become significant until europeans sought to control their slaves, first by taken away their identity and giving them one that they themselves have defined. This being "black". That would've been fine. But the implication of the slaves superior being "white" and "white" having the obvious connotation of being better than "black" has left african americans in a state where they keep feeding this inferiority complex to themselves.

As a matter of fact. Yesterday I met this beautiful african american woman so I went over to talk to her. First thing she said was...

"Why do you talk white"

"Excuse me??"

"Yeah, you talk white...all proper 'n stuff"

"So talking white is talking proper"

"Yeah"

"Wouldn't that mean that talking black would be talking improper??"

"Yeah"

"So white is proper and black is improper??"

"Yeah"

"I see...so can I have 300 dollars to have sex with you and treat you like crap and never call you again??"

"Yeah"

"Why am I not suprised"

[CG]

EastEnd:

Yes. The Bahamas is being poisoned by race issues in America. I'm not saying that slavery didn't leave its mark on the Bahamas. Being a dark-skinned Bahamian, I know quite well that it has. But then the idea of race has made it even uglier. I think Teniel is right also. As a Bahamian, I have no idea what it feels like to be a minority. I don't think any Bahamian knows what it feels like to be a minority apart from our grandparents and great grandparents. So I can empathize with african americans in that regard. But Bahamians stopped being minorities when we stopped thinking like minorities. African americans can't seem to do that. They are too hung up on this black stuff. I've had several arguments. I've even been "black-listed".

First of all, "black" is only an acknowledgement of "white". So african americans will never drop that mentality as long as they are being defined as the opposite of somebody else living right next to them. If anybody knows african history, can you refer a tribe of people that ever referred to themselves as "black"?? I doubt you can. Black didn't become significant until europeans sought to control their slaves, first by taken away their identity and giving them one that they themselves have defined. This being "black". That would've been fine. But the implication of the slaves superior being "white" and "white" having the obvious connotation of being better than "black" has left african americans in a state where they keep feeding this inferiority complex to themselves.

As a matter of fact. Yesterday I met this beautiful african american woman so I went over to talk to her. First thing she said was...

"Why do you talk white"

"Excuse me??"

"Yeah, you talk white...all proper 'n stuff"

"So talking white is talking proper"

"Yeah"

"Wouldn't that mean that talking black would be talking improper??"

"Yeah"

"So white is proper and black is improper??"

"Yeah"

"I see...so can I have 300 dollars to have sex with you and treat you like crap and never call you again??"

"Yeah"

"Why am I not suprised"


By the same token, White people never referred to themselves as white until they began to mix with people of other colours. Black folks insisted on being called black. At one time they were known as Negroes, but they did not like that so they became Afro-Americans. That soon passed and they wanted to be known as Black - which is odd as most are brown in colour. It is as odd as calling a White person white - he is often a pinkish colour.

What would you call Black people? Please don't say "people." They are! It is important, at times to be able to let others know to what race they belong. For example, on this site. Those who have posted pictures of themselves let the pictures speak for them. But what word should the others use? By the way, I am pinkish!!! :)

[Ting-um]

Yes, I know white people never referred to themselves as "white" until mixing with others, mainly blacks. But you have a different dynamic. One group being the oppressor and the other being the oppressed. And "Negro" is "Black" -- what's the difference?? Whites never referred to themselves as "Blanco". Negro meant black or white would not be its opposite. And yes...*NOW* african americans want to be referred to as "black" because they acknowledge that their past has been a product of "whiteness" and that they no longer have anything african about them.

I don't see why race is necessary, call me naive. I noticed white people that are pale simply say "I'm pale" whenever they speak to somebody else white. Or if they are dark they just say I'm "Tan". Why would I need to know your race?? Is there is certain language that I would have to activate when I'm speaking to one race versus another??

[CG]

I don't see why race is necessary, call me naive.
There could be a number of reasons: Filling out a form that requires "race." When describing some to someone else. For police identification.(It always makes me laugh when the police put out a description of a wanted man "He is dark skinned, black hair and black eyes." That covers about 99% of the population.)


...Why would I need to know your race??
"God" made five major racial groups: caucasoid, negroid. mongoloid, amer-indian and australoid. We are all different color flowers growing in the same garden. I dislike it when people say they don't check about race. I know they mean well but when one thinks about it all those races, and more, are here. We should be proud to call ourselves what we are and to let others know as well - if they should ask.


Is there is certain language that I would have to activate when I'm speaking to one race versus another??

No. If we treated people with the respect they deserve that is the only language one needs.

[casualobserver]

Why would I need to know your race?? Is there is certain language that I would have to activate when I'm speaking to one race versus another??


Race, sex, physical description - these are all identifiers and adjectives. "He is black, he is white" are not slanderous, mean spirited or racial remarks, but simply a fact.

It is society that puts a stigma on these words; that attach some sort of value according to what genetic marker you have in your DNA.

Example: ARAB - In today's CNN dominated world, my knee jerk reaction to 'ARAB' might be 'radical' or 'extremist' when I know full well that a minute portion of ARABs fit that stereotype. A few years ago, when I thought ARAB, I thought of Lawrence of Arabia, oil, and a few of the Arab friends I have.

Mr. Bush has helped turn ARAB into 'terrorist' and that can't be good!

I wouldn't have known that CG was pinkish - I thought he was half white / half black with a white and black circle within the opposite color!

[CG]

Race, sex, physical description - these are all identifiers and adjectives. "He is black, he is white" are not slanderous, mean spirited or racial remarks, but simply a fact.

It is society that puts a stigma on these words; that attach some sort of value according to what genetic marker you have in your DNA.

Example: ARAB - In today's CNN dominated world, my knee jerk reaction to 'ARAB' might be 'radical' or 'extremist' when I know full well that a minute portion of ARABs fit that stereotype. A few years ago, when I thought ARAB, I thought of Lawrence of Arabia, oil, and a few of the Arab friends I have.

Mr. Bush has helped turn ARAB into 'terrorist' and that can't be good!

I wouldn't have known that CG was pinkish - I thought he was half white / half black with a white and black circle within the opposite color!


I am pinkish! But only in my skin! My soul is the Yin and Yang - or as you so wonderfully put it, ".... half white / half black with a white and black circle within the opposite color! :D


Mr. Bush has helped turn ARAB into 'terrorist' and that can't be good!

Actually it was the Arabs who turned the word into "terrorist" by their actions and/or their silence.

[casualobserver]

Actually it was the Arabs who turned the word into "terrorist" by their actions and/or their silence.


touché

[chancellor]

Are we being influinced?

Not too much. I mean sometimes people say stuff like "actin' white/ black" , or "white/black music"(which I just hate). Some people think they have to live a certain sterotype in their race and for some people who choose otherwise people might look at them like they need mental help or something. Really I have seen Bahamians work together whatever colour...it's just when genuinely foreign people arrive (and I mean select nationalities) is when all Bahamians, no matter the colour display a level of predjudice. When it comes to Bahamians though, it dosent seem that way since most of us just about use the same dialect and stuff anyway.

African Americans to me seem to have issues with themeselves and everybody else as if they are still owed something. I mean how much more free can it get for them over there? Seems as if the average Bahamian can go over there and do much better. You can even see that some of the best African Americans in history are either natural Bahamians or of that descent, or from another place in the carribean.

[casualobserver]

Really I have seen Bahamians work together whatever colour...it's just when genuinely foreign people arrive (and I mean select nationalities) is when all Bahamians, no matter the colour display a level of predjudice.


I have seen evidence of this as well.

What 'select nationalities' are you referring to, though?

[chancellor]

Oh well like Hatians most noticably with the immigration numbers. I havent seen much with Europeans and Aisians, but really people form this region. That's what I see. Its mostly what country you are from rather than the colour.

[Rory]

yeah haitians seem to be doing okay in the US, at least 100x better than how they do over here ...

[Ting-um]

Speaking of Arabs.

If you're Arab and you live in a predominantly Arab country, which most Arab countries are. Do you think they find it necessary to say "He's black or white"?? No. Because just about everyone is Arab. So they have to find other ways to describe people. Other ways that are more significant than race. He's tall, short, overweight, bearded, and so on.

And we are discussing racism, not race. Even though I still believe "race" is inherently racist. We don't call Chinese people "Yellow". Why can't black people be African and white people be european?? Just as Chinese people are Asian?? Japanese people are Asian. Because race is racist. And it is apparent in the words "black" and "white".

CG:

God did not create five races. God created man in Africa. From there man migrated. Adaptation to different environments created 5 races. White is thousands of years of adaptation to colder climates. So is Asian. And so on.