you are more than welcome sir. :angel:

Abiskan Moon-Angel:i found this bit of info its long but it touches on critical thinking:Critical thinking is deciding rationally what to or what not to believe."

Norris, Stephen P. "Synthesis of Research on Critical Thinking. Educational Leadership, v 42 n 8 May 1985. 40-45.



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"Critical thinking is the use of those cognitive skills or strategies that increase the probability of a desirable outcome. It is used to describe thinking that is purposeful, reasoned and goal directed - the kind of thinking involved in solving problems, formulating inferences, calculating likelihoods, and making decisions when the thinker is using skills that are thoughtful and effective for the particular context and type of thinking task. Critical thinking also involves evaluating the thinking process - the reasoning that went into the conclusion we've arrived at the kinds of factors considered in making a decision. Critical thinking is sometimes called directed thinking because it focuses on a desired outcome."
Halpern, Diane F. Thought and Knowledge: An Introduction to Critical Thinking. 1996.



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Critical thinking is the formation of logical inferences.
Simon and Kapplan, 1989.



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Critical thinking is the development of cohesive and logical reasoning patterns. Stahl and Stahl, 1991.


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Critical thinking is careful and deliberate determination of whether to accept, reject, or suspend judgment.
Moore and Parker, 1994.



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"The purpose of critical thinking is, therefore, to achieve understanding, evaluate view points, and solve problems. Since all three areas involve the asking of questions, we can say that critical thinking is the questioning or inquiry we engage in when we seek to understand, evaluate, or resolve."
Maiorana, Victor P. Critical Thinking Across the Curriculum: Building the Analytical Classroom. 1992.



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Critical thinking skills: understanding the meaning of a statement, judging ambiguity, judging whether an inductive conclusion is warranted, and judging whether statements made by authorities are acceptable.
Smith, 1990.



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Critical thinking is "the examination and testing of suggested solutions to see whether they will work."
Lindzey, Hall, and Thompson, 1978.



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"Broadly speaking, critical thinking is concerned with reason, intellectual honesty, and open-mindedness, as opposed too emotionalism, intellectual laziness, and closed-mindedness. Thus, critical thinking involves: following evidence where it leads; considering all possibilities; relying on reason rather than emotion; being precise; considering a variety of possible viewpoints and explanations; weighing the effects of motives and biases; being concerned more with finding the truth than with being right; not rejecting unpopular views out of hand; being aware of one's own prejudices and biases, and not allowing them to sway one's judgment." Kurland, Daniel J. I Know What It Says . . . What does it Mean? 1995.


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Critical thinking is "reasonably and reflectively deciding what to believe or do."
Ennis (1985)



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Critical thinking is "the art of thinking about your thinking while you are thinking in order to make your thinking better: more clear, more accurate, or more defensible."
Paul, Binker, Adamson, and Martin (1989)



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Critical thinking is "a process which stresses an attitude of suspended judgment, incorporates logical inquiry and problem solving, and leads to an evaluative decision or action."
NCTE Committee on Critical Thinking and the Language Arts.



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"Critical thinking includes the ability to respond to material by distinguishing between facts and opinions or personal feelings, judgments and inferences, inductive and deductive arguments, and the objective and subjective. It also includes the ability to generate questions, construct, and recognize the structure of arguments, and adequately support arguments; define, analyze, and devise solutions for problems and issues; sort, organize, classify, correlate, and analyze materials and data; integrate information and see relationships; evaluate information, materials, and data by drawing inferences, arriving at reasonable and informed conclusions, applying understanding and knowledge to new and different problems, developing rational and reasonable interpretations, suspending beliefs and remaining open to new information, methods, cultural systems, values and beliefs and by assimilating information."
MCC General Education Initiatives

Abiskan Moon-Angel: my assesssment was that yorick gave up because the falacies of his position were exposed, hence he did not have a ground to stand on. I put the statements out there with the references but he ran away, which was what i expected. you on the other hand i must give credit for engaging in the process of a dialogue and for that i say thanks...
Let's make one thing clear. I ceased the discussion of this topic with certain parties because I seriously questioned whether or not they were even worth the effort.

With three (3) doctors now claiming that something needs to be done about the large numbers of illegal immigrants they see each day in our clinics and hospitals, as well as the revelation that the PLP government is handing out work permits to illegal immigrants like candy, I feel that this topic needs to be dealt with here in The Bahamas on Bahamian terms. We are creating a problem here that will only cause the social breakdown of certain elements of our society. Bahamians are actively watching this country's governmental processes being undermined and are doing nothing about it. No class in "critical thinking" is necessary to see this either, (of which I have taken as part of my Sociology and Psychology curriculum for my university degree.)

How do you come to an understanding of reality? Reality is that, in their last year of power, the FNM handed out only 100 permits to illegal immigrants. The next year the PLP increased that number to over 2000 (and the same thing has been happening each year since the PLP got in). According to the latest reports, we will have handed out over 3000 more permits by the end of this year. Questions are now arising as to the reason why certain officials have sponsored hundreds of work permits, while those permit holders do not work directly for them.*cough..Co..rruption...cough*

The Bahamian government's system of immigration has been compromised on all levels. The immigration raids that take place are merely a show to the Bahamian public to make it appear as if the situation is being handled. Those who are caught in the raids are freed after paying bribes of only $250. Note that this is only if the raids actually take place - there have been instances where immigration officers of Haitian descent have refused their commanding officer's direct order to arrest illegal immigrants.

So some person thinks that I should take his critical thinking class eh? For someone who is not in this country and is completely unaware of the FACTS, certain people need to rest their nerves and find out what's going on first in The Bahamas. I have read some of the books mentioned and have done my research thoroughly. As for the history of Haiti, Bahamian history is happening right now under the noses of Bahamian citizens - our country is taking in more immigrants than we will be able to handle socially and economically. There will be repercussions.

The Bahamian government has forgotten what happens when they make promises that they will be forced to go back on. What will happen when they will need to put their feet down and take control of this issue? I say that it'll be quite interesting to say the least.

Well i am glad to know you took a class in critical thinking, but it is evident from your post that you did not learn much there. as for the bboks that i have mention which ones did you read. Lets be real about this, i posted part of a discussion on the nature of critical thinking, if you dont need it, thats great for you. i am not going to go into a long disatation on what you dont need or do need ,you will make up your own mind as i will mine. as for others who have a desire to know what is really going on the post is there. My knowledge of the bahamas is not an issue here as i have demonstrated my level of awareness in all of my post, if you find a valid issue then bring it up but for the most part all i have from you is unsubstantiated opinions, which is not worth much, if you have a degree as you say you do then you must be familiar with research methods, forming hypothesis, testing the validity of these hypothesis, and this is lacking in your post. You cannot understand the imigration problem in the bahamas until you understand the historical, geo political forces that are acting to create and maintain this situation, that is my theory. Unless haiti as a country can be brought to social, political stability this migration problem will continue unabeted, the mass expolution of haitians is not the answer. In order to solve this problem first step is that,the usa must stop its policy of interference the carieabean in particular haiti, if we are not looking and crafting this policy we are fooling our selves, you say you understand haiti, i wonder what it is you understand, you say you understand the bahamas, i wonder what it is you understand, i rember being part of the protest taken by students of cob against the goverment for failure to renew work permits i rember sitting on bay street, i rember seeing if the patterns of goverment remained the same then there would be no changes, where were you, i recall working hard to get rid of alfred gray in carmichael as the plp representive, where were you, hey i was even working at the hospital trying to make it more effiecient where were you, hey while we were working on dismantling general orders what were you doing? or have you got another definition of what being aware of in the bahamas is? if you are what you say you are then show it and stop fronting............................

Let's make one thing clear. I ceased the discussion of this topic with certain parties because I seriously questioned whether or not they were even worth the effort.

With three (3) doctors now claiming that something needs to be done about the large numbers of illegal immigrants they see each day in our clinics and hospitals, as well as the revelation that the PLP government is handing out work permits to illegal immigrants like candy, I feel that this topic needs to be dealt with here in The Bahamas on Bahamian terms. We are creating a problem here that will only cause the social breakdown of certain elements of our society. Bahamians are actively watching this country's governmental processes being undermined and are doing nothing about it. No class in "critical thinking" is necessary to see this either, (of which I have taken as part of my Sociology and Psychology curriculum for my university degree.)

How do you come to an understanding of reality? Reality is that, in their last year of power, the FNM handed out only 100 permits to illegal immigrants. The next year the PLP increased that number to over 2000 (and the same thing has been happening each year since the PLP got in). According to the latest reports, we will have handed out over 3000 more permits by the end of this year. Questions are now arising as to the reason why certain officials have sponsored hundreds of work permits, while those permit holders do not work directly for them.*cough..Co..rruption...cough*

The Bahamian government's system of immigration has been compromised on all levels. The immigration raids that take place are merely a show to the Bahamian public to make it appear as if the situation is being handled. Those who are caught in the raids are freed after paying bribes of only $250. Note that this is only if the raids actually take place - there have been instances where immigration officers of Haitian descent have refused their commanding officer's direct order to arrest illegal immigrants.

So some person thinks that I should take his critical thinking class eh? For someone who is not in this country and is completely unaware of the FACTS, certain people need to rest their nerves and find out what's going on first in The Bahamas. I have read some of the books mentioned and have done my research thoroughly. As for the history of Haiti, Bahamian history is happening right now under the noses of Bahamian citizens - our country is taking in more immigrants than we will be able to handle socially and economically. There will be repercussions.

The Bahamian government has forgotten what happens when they make promises that they will be forced to go back on. What will happen when they will need to put their feet down and take control of this issue? I say that it'll be quite interesting to say the least.

Yorickbrown yes i do think you need to take a class in critical thinking we all should:
"Critical thinking includes the ability to respond to material by distinguishing between facts and opinions or personal feelings, judgments and inferences, inductive and deductive arguments, and the objective and subjective. It also includes the ability to generate questions, construct, and recognize the structure of arguments, and adequately support arguments; define, analyze, and devise solutions for problems and issues; sort, organize, classify, correlate, and analyze materials and data; integrate information and see relationships; evaluate information, materials, and data by drawing inferences, arriving at reasonable and informed conclusions, applying understanding and knowledge to new and different problems, developing rational and reasonable interpretations, suspending beliefs and remaining open to new information, methods, cultural systems, values and beliefs and by assimilating information."
MCC General Education Initiatives
do you get it this is what i am talking about, this is what you are not doing and continue not to do in your posts

Let's make one thing clear. I ceased the discussion of this topic with certain parties because I seriously questioned whether or not they were even worth the effort.

With three (3) doctors now claiming that something needs to be done about the large numbers of illegal immigrants they see each day in our clinics and hospitals, as well as the revelation that the PLP government is handing out work permits to illegal immigrants like candy, I feel that this topic needs to be dealt with here in The Bahamas on Bahamian terms. We are creating a problem here that will only cause the social breakdown of certain elements of our society. Bahamians are actively watching this country's governmental processes being undermined and are doing nothing about it. No class in "critical thinking" is necessary to see this either, (of which I have taken as part of my Sociology and Psychology curriculum for my university degree.)

How do you come to an understanding of reality? Reality is that, in their last year of power, the FNM handed out only 100 permits to illegal immigrants. The next year the PLP increased that number to over 2000 (and the same thing has been happening each year since the PLP got in). According to the latest reports, we will have handed out over 3000 more permits by the end of this year. Questions are now arising as to the reason why certain officials have sponsored hundreds of work permits, while those permit holders do not work directly for them.*cough..Co..rruption...cough*

The Bahamian government's system of immigration has been compromised on all levels. The immigration raids that take place are merely a show to the Bahamian public to make it appear as if the situation is being handled. Those who are caught in the raids are freed after paying bribes of only $250. Note that this is only if the raids actually take place - there have been instances where immigration officers of Haitian descent have refused their commanding officer's direct order to arrest illegal immigrants.

So some person thinks that I should take his critical thinking class eh? For someone who is not in this country and is completely unaware of the FACTS, certain people need to rest their nerves and find out what's going on first in The Bahamas. I have read some of the books mentioned and have done my research thoroughly. As for the history of Haiti, Bahamian history is happening right now under the noses of Bahamian citizens - our country is taking in more immigrants than we will be able to handle socially and economically. There will be repercussions.

The Bahamian government has forgotten what happens when they make promises that they will be forced to go back on. What will happen when they will need to put their feet down and take control of this issue? I say that it'll be quite interesting to say the least.

Yorickbrown i am just going to kick out some of the points that are weak in your post again:
1 the mysterious three doctors(they would not happen to be related to the three wise men are they?) what statistical reports are there to show the effects of migrants on health care?
2. What reports are there on increse in work permits to migrants?
3. What is the job market that these migrants fill, and how does this effect bahamian workers?
4 Bahamian terms what is that?
5. how much revernue dose migrants bring to the bahamas?
Can you answer these questions?

Well i am glad to know you took a class in critical thinking, but it is evident from your post that you did not learn much there. as for the bboks that i have mention which ones did you read. Lets be real about this, i posted part of a discussion on the nature of critical thinking, if you dont need it, thats great for you. i am not going to go into a long disatation on what you dont need or do need ,you will make up your own mind as i will mine. as for others who have a desire to know what is really going on the post is there. My knowledge of the bahamas is not an issue here as i have demonstrated my level of awareness in all of my post, if you find a valid issue then bring it up but for the most part all i have from you is unsubstantiated opinions, which is not worth much, if you have a degree as you say you do then you must be familiar with research methods, forming hypothesis, testing the validity of these hypothesis, and this is lacking in your post. You cannot understand the imigration problem in the bahamas until you understand the historical, geo political forces that are acting to create and maintain this situation, that is my theory. Unless haiti as a country can be brought to social, political stability this migration problem will continue unabeted, the mass expolution of haitians is not the answer. In order to solve this problem first step is that,the usa must stop its policy of interference the carieabean in particular haiti, if we are not looking and crafting this policy we are fooling our selves, you say you understand haiti, i wonder what it is you understand, you say you understand the bahamas, i wonder what it is you understand, i rember being part of the protest taken by students of cob against the goverment for failure to renew work permits i rember sitting on bay street, i rember seeing if the patterns of goverment remained the same then there would be no changes, where were you, i recall working hard to get rid of alfred gray in carmichael as the plp representive, where were you, hey i was even working at the hospital trying to make it more effiecient where were you, hey while we were working on dismantling general orders what were you doing? or have you got another definition of what being aware of in the bahamas is? if you are what you say you are then show it and stop fronting............................

There he goes again like a little child, attacking me as if I am the one to blame. Focus on the issue at hand, not the person addressing the issue.

I'm going to say this as I've always said it before. The Bahamas cannot absorb the large number of illegal immigrants who come to our shores. Point blank.

Is this guy serious? So what he is saying is to "let them stay", to let them disregard our rule of Bahamian law. Ok now I see where his head is at.

Yorickbrown yes i do think you need to take a class in critical thinking we all should:
"Critical thinking includes the ability to respond to material by distinguishing between facts and opinions or personal feelings, judgments and inferences, inductive and deductive arguments, and the objective and subjective. It also includes the ability to generate questions, construct, and recognize the structure of arguments, and adequately support arguments; define, analyze, and devise solutions for problems and issues; sort, organize, classify, correlate, and analyze materials and data; integrate information and see relationships; evaluate information, materials, and data by drawing inferences, arriving at reasonable and informed conclusions, applying understanding and knowledge to new and different problems, developing rational and reasonable interpretations, suspending beliefs and remaining open to new information, methods, cultural systems, values and beliefs and by assimilating information."
MCC General Education Initiatives
do you get it this is what i am talking about, this is what you are not doing and continue not to do in your posts



Every single thing that I wrote was a FACT. It was not based on opinion and I did not pull it out of thin air like you seem to think. I did my research and stated facts. Quite frankly I did everything that you state in this critical thinking paragraph.

You seem bent on disregarding the facts and more interested in telling me that I need critical thinking classes. Get over yourself and read what I'm saying.

There he goes again like a little child, attacking me as if I am the one to blame. Focus on the issue at hand, not the person addressing the issue.

I'm going to say this as I've always said it before. The Bahamas cannot absorb these amount of illegal immigrants. Point blank.

Is this guy serious? So what he is saying is to "let them stay", to let them disregard our rule of Bahamian law. Ok now I see where his head is at.

yorickbrown: reading and comprehension is so import, may be we should start there this is what i said did you not understand this............."You cannot understand the imigration problem in the bahamas until you understand the historical, geo political forces that are acting to create and maintain this situation, that is my theory. Unless haiti as a country can be brought to social, political stability this migration problem will continue unabeted, the mass expolution of haitians is not the answer. In order to solve this problem first step is that,the usa must stop its policy of interference the carieabean in particular haiti, if we are not looking and crafting this policy we are fooling our selves,"

Every single thing that I wrote was a FACT. It was not based on opinion and I did not pull it out of thin air like you seem to think. I did my research and stated facts. Quite frankly I did everything that you state in this critical thinking paragraph.

You seem bent on disregarding the facts and more interested in telling me that I need critical thinking classes. Get over yourself and read what I'm saying.

Yorickbrown: these issues remain unresolved;Yorickbrown i am just going to kick out some of the points that are weak in your post again:
1 the mysterious three doctors(they would not happen to be related to the three wise men are they?) what statistical reports are there to show the effects of migrants on health care?
2. What reports are there on increse in work permits to migrants?
3. What is the job market that these migrants fill, and how does this effect bahamian workers?
4 Bahamian terms what is that?
5. how much revernue dose migrants bring to the bahamas?
Can you answer these questions?

Yorickbrown i am just going to kick out some of the points that are weak in your post again:
1 the mysterious three doctors(they would not happen to be related to the three wise men are they?) what statistical reports are there to show the effects of migrants on health care?
2. What reports are there on increse in work permits to migrants?
3. What is the job market that these migrants fill, and how does this effect bahamian workers?
4 Bahamian terms what is that?
5. how much revernue dose migrants bring to the bahamas?
Can you answer these questions?

No problem. I'll answer your questions. Hopefully this will help you to understand.

1. The three doctors' identities have not been given at their request. The Tribune printed their stories as well. And look at this, how convenient it is that there are no statistical reports to show the effects on migrants on the Bahamian health care system as yet. Why? Because the Bahamian government is in denial about the situation, while they exploit these immigrants for extra cash. Pay us or we deport you.

2. I stated the facts already from the reports on the increase in work permits. The FNM held steady at 100 during their last year and the PLP government issued over 2000 permits the following year that they were in power. It has been that way up to this point and this year they were really on a roll, cause we will have over 3000 permits issued this year at the current rate. The PLP government is selling out this country.

3. These immigrants fill up low-level skill positions of construction workers, gardeners, maids, handymen and positions that do not require much formal training. As a result, the job market for Bahamians at the same work experience level has deteriorated. Employers can overwork the immigrants and pay them less due to fears that they can be reported to the authorities. When a Bahamian employer knows that they can hire someone who will do more work for less money, of course they will choose the person who will take less money. Their bottom line is to make a profit. Also, might I add, many of these employers are not being penalized for hiring persons who do not have status.

4. When I stated "on Bahamian terms" I meant that we should look at this from the perspective of Bahamian citizens for the betterment of our nation. Anyone with a smidgeon of critical thinking in their minds can see the potential damage that thousands of illegal immigrants can do by continuously invading the shores of a nation of only a few hundred thousand Bahamians.. But no, we have 1. Bahamians who sympathise with the plight of Haiti and forego their own Bahamian future due to a lack of foresight; 2. Bahamians of Haitian descent who keep their mouths shut, refuse to speak out against this invasion of The Bahamas by Haitians and also refuse to protect the future of this nation as Bahamians; and 3. Haitians, who only care about getting here to The Bahamas, cause our rules are less stringent than the US and they can buy their way into our system and get free healthcare, education and land. When I really think about it though, if I was a Haitian, I would probably do the same thing and not even care about what Bahamians think (especially since Bahamians aren't doing or saying much about it).

5. The amount of internal revenue that is passed around by Haitians immigrants is clearly less than they put in. In terms of commodities, they do spend money on food and clothing, but let us not forget that they are not paying for the land that they are living on, they can get virtually free health care for them and their families and the education for their kids is free as well. These things add up. Not to mention that it subtracts financial gain from a number of Bahamians who are put out of work because the salary for advertised positions are now too low for the typical Bahamian. Their cost is higher than their revenue for they group in communities and share a lower level of living than the typical Bahamian - This in turn allows them to save more and spend less. Less money being put back into the Bahamian economy means less money for Bahamians.

The questions I would like to ask you are: Are you Bahamian? How can you defend and excuse the slow societal and financial drain that illegal immigration puts on the Bahamas? Where is your critical thinking in those cases? Do you really think that The Bahamas can continue this trend of turning a blind eye to these immigrants, while their numbers continue to rise? Are you one of those people who think that The Bahamas "owes" it to Haiti to help by sacrificing their land and governmental resources? What about Bahamians who have the right to protect their country from being overrun by an immigrant population? Do you even care about Bahamians as a people?

You cannot understand the imigration problem in the bahamas until you understand the historical, geo political forces that are acting to create and maintain this situation, that is my theory.
That is like saying "You cannot understand what it is like to be burned until you understand the dynamics of fire!" Not so! All you have to do is put your hand in the oven - you will learn, even if you have never heard of fire.
All one has to do to understand the immigration policy here is to look! There ain't one!

Unless haiti as a country can be brought to social, political stability this migration problem will continue unabeted,
And how can that be done? The Haitians themselves are the biggest problem in Haiti.

the mass expolution of haitians is not the answer.
True, that is why we need a strong policy to keep them out so they are not exploited here.

In order to solve this problem first step is that,the usa must stop its policy of interference the carieabean in particular haiti,
The US "Interferes" because no one else does anything! The Carribean talks and talks but no action!

if we are not looking and crafting this policy we are fooling our selves,"
???

CG this is a reproduction that is already posted it was posted to yorck brown, if you disagree with my assessments make it know, and i will correct them if i am wrong this is a path of critical thinking beware............budhist thats interesting, i am a student of taoism................
The major problem i find with you is that you are unable to think critically, which means to accumulate information, analysis that information and draw conclusions from that information. so i am going to add another brick to this building but first i wish you would get that book by c l r at least you would have the back ground information to understand the gravity of the situation. History as John h Clark teaches is a clock that tells a people where they are where they have been and where they must go. Yes haiti was the first nation to free it self from the yokes of the french, but that is not where the story ends, france forced haiti to pay restitution to the slave owners who were driven from haiti, it was an amount of 25 million dollars. think about it people freeing themselves then having to pay those who oppress them for there oppression. this debt was payed up until the us invasion of haiti at which time the us took the debt over. not only did the us took the debt over but it reduced haiti to a colony of hers, in which rampant corruption took place, during this time period of papa doc and baby doc all under the watch full eyes of america began a series of political assassination, and further oppression of the people. now here is the important point haiti is a sovereign nation the same way the bahamas and the america is, yet no caribbean country with ties to the us spoke up against the policies of the us in haiti, they all turned a blind eye, in these conditions we began to see the waves of political and economic refugees. a situation we help and continue to help by our countries lack of a back bone and standing up on the side of truth which is the right of a people to determine there own destiny, infact its pathetic i remember watching in shock as aristead was removed from government and what did we say? this is what you miss, you do not understand the workings of the international communities, the interference that takes place in countries on a daily bases by america, right now veneazule is standing up along with bolivia but if you read the news paper with out your thinking cap you wont see whats going on. open your eyes and see, or as morpeous would say" the matrix is the curtain that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you to the truth"
neo" what truth"
morpheous" that you are a slave neo"[COLOR=Sienna][FONT=Lucida Console]

here is it in a nut shell: it(usa) reduced haiti to a colony of hers, in which rampant corruption took place, during this time period of papa doc and baby doc all under the watch full eyes of america began a series of political assassination, and further oppression of the people. now here is the important point haiti is a sovereign nation the same way the bahamas and the america is, yet no caribbean country with ties to the us spoke up against the policies of the us in haiti, they all turned a blind eye, in these conditions we began to see the waves of political and economic refugees. a situation we help and continue to help by our countries lack of a back bone and standing up on the side of truth which is the right of a people to determine there own destiny, infact its pathetic i remember watching in shock as aristead was removed from government and what did we say? this is what you miss, you do not understand the workings of the international communities, the interference that takes place in countries on a daily bases by america,

No problem. I'll answer your questions. Hopefully this will help you to understand.

1. The three doctors' identities have not been given at their request. The Tribune printed their stories as well. And look at this, how convenient it is that there are no statistical reports to show the effects on migrants on the Bahamian health care system as yet. Why? Because the Bahamian government is in denial about the situation, while they exploit these immigrants for extra cash. Pay us or we deport you.

2. I stated the facts already from the reports on the increase in work permits. The FNM held steady at 100 during their last year and the PLP government issued over 2000 permits the following year that they were in power. It has been that way up to this point and this year they were really on a roll, cause we will have over 3000 permits issued this year at the current rate. The PLP government is selling out this country.

3. These immigrants fill up low-level skill positions of construction workers, gardeners, maids, handymen and positions that do not require much formal training. As a result, the job market for Bahamians at the same work experience level has deteriorated. Employers can overwork the immigrants and pay them less due to fears that they can be reported to the authorities. When a Bahamian employer knows that they can hire someone who will do more work for less money, of course they will choose the person who will take less money. Their bottom line is to make a profit. Also, might I add, many of these employers are not being penalized for hiring persons who do not have status.

4. When I stated "on Bahamian terms" I meant that we should look at this from the perspective of Bahamian citizens for the betterment of our nation. Anyone with a smidgeon of critical thinking in their minds can see the potential damage that thousands of illegal immigrants can do by continuously invading the shores of a nation of only a few hundred thousand Bahamians.. But no, we have 1. Bahamians who sympathise with the plight of Haiti and forego their own Bahamian future due to a lack of foresight; 2. Bahamians of Haitian descent who keep their mouths shut, refuse to speak out against this invasion of The Bahamas by Haitians and also refuse to protect the future of this nation as Bahamians; and 3. Haitians, who only care about getting here to The Bahamas, cause our rules are less stringent than the US and they can buy their way into our system and get free healthcare, education and land. When I really think about it though, if I was a Haitian, I would probably do the same thing and not even care about what Bahamians think (especially since Bahamians aren't doing or saying much about it).

5. The amount of internal revenue that is passed around by Haitians immigrants is clearly less than they put in. In terms of commodities, they do spend money on food and clothing, but let us not forget that they are not paying for the land that they are living on, they can get virtually free health care for them and their families and the education for their kids is free as well. These things add up. Not to mention that it subtracts financial gain from a number of Bahamians who are put out of work because the salary for advertised positions are now too low for the typical Bahamian. Their cost is higher than their revenue for they group in communities and share a lower level of living than the typical Bahamian - This in turn allows them to save more and spend less. Less money being put back into the Bahamian economy means less money for Bahamians.

The questions I would like to ask you are: Are you Bahamian? How can you defend and excuse the slow societal and financial drain that illegal immigration puts on the Bahamas? Where is your critical thinking in those cases? Do you really think that The Bahamas can continue this trend of turning a blind eye to these immigrants, while their numbers continue to rise? Are you one of those people who think that The Bahamas "owes" it to Haiti to help by sacrificing their land and governmental resources? What about Bahamians who have the right to protect their country from being overrun by an immigrant population? Do you even care about Bahamians as a people?

Yorickbrown i knew you had it in you, that was great, now that i have an idea of where you are we shall continue...................

To the ever present flipmode squad who bounce like a satellite seeing things from many angels, my heart is with you. For the seventh generation the world I leave behind will be a better place. You non critical thinking block heads you know who you are the heat are on. My granola bar crunching, dirt worshiping tree hugging hippie peeps we are one forever, comrades and those who are just maintaining I feel ya, no matter what group you fall in or fall out namaste: when I was growing in the village they taught us to say good morning and good day and good evening, they also had these little sessions when families would gather around and talk about what was on going. These are my fondest memories of my ascent to adulthood.
In a long winded discussion some times the lost of the original thesis becomes possible thus I am restating my position: which is that the Haitian migration can not be fully understood unless the historical, political, and economic factors which have created this condition are understood. This is where this discussion needs to go. From this vantage point it is possible to create policy to solve the situation. As for these questions brown you will find the answer in this study.
The questions I would like to ask you are: Are you Bahamian? How can you defend and excuse the slow societal and financial drain that illegal immigration puts on the Bahamas? Where is your critical thinking in those cases? Do you really think that The Bahamas can continue this trend of turning a blind eye to these immigrants, while their numbers continue to rise? Are you one of those people who think that The Bahamas "owes" it to Haiti to help by sacrificing their land and governmental resources? What about Bahamians who have the right to protect their country from being overrun by an immigrant population? Do you even care about Bahamians as a people?

looks like someone just got released from sandilands ..