I see that many of you have taken issue with the Haitian immigrants and their continued connection to their Haitian culture. But Bahamas is equally if not more so populated my rich Europeans and Americans who are even more closely tied to their own cultures. Unlike the Haitians many of these rich westerners wont even socialize with the local populace and they do not consider themselves Bahamian. Is your problem with the Haitians rooted in the facts that they are POOR and BLACK (historical reasons worldwide for prejudice)? Would you ...do you have the same issues with the Rich westerners locked behind gates on Lyford Cay, or PI or any of the other exclusive neighborhoods built to keep you out?

It’s all on how you look at it I suppose.

I'm simply posing the question.

(and im a bit of a rabble rouser)

i am afraid that we are once again using the haitians as scapegoats for our own social failures. the demise of bahamian 'society' came with the installation of the first satellite dish in the early 1970s.

As usual the situation is convoluted by those who miss the entire point of the Bahamian-Haitian situation.

No one is using Haitians as a scapegoat for anything. (Note that I also mentioned the "Americanization" of Bahamian culture.) What I am saying is that there is an obvious risk in allowing such a large number of immigrants into our society without taking into account the effect of their cultural presence. They will not adopt Bahamian ways of life automatically upon hitting our shores, so what culture do you think they will embrace? Their own, of course! This should be no big deal in a free and democratic society, but such a change in culture can occur in just a few generations and the smaller the country, the more rapidly the change will occur. Their influence on Bahamian culture is directly connected to the number of immigrants that are in our society - presently 60,000 out of 350,000 according to official reports.

It's nice to protect your friends and allow them into your country to work and get a better life, but what will you say/do when your Bahamian kids are suddenly outnumbered (which is happening in some of our family island communities at this very moment) and have to adjust to life with Creole signs, commercials and culture. Or are you saying that this is an okay occurrence? Are you okay with potentially making yourself an endangered species in your own country? Are you okay with future generations possibly being mandated to speak Haitian Creole to live comfortably in what used to be an English speaking country? Are you aware of the increasing numbers of Bahamians of Haitian descent in important National security related positions? Are you aware that there have been incidents where Bahamians of Haitian descent have made it easier for their friends and family members to move to this country or to avoid the regulations required of them? Are you aware of the problems that this increasing corruption of loyalty to this nation is creating? Are you aware that the Haitian ambassador to the Bahamas does not have any responsibility to tell his people to stop coming over to this country illegally - the onus falls on our government? Should we just hand over the Bahamas to a continuously increasing immigrant population for the sake of goodwill and because "the demise of Bahamian 'society' came with the installation of the first satellite dish in the early 1970's" anyway?

I see that many of you have taken issue with the Haitian immigrants and their continued connection to their Haitian culture. But Bahamas is equally if not more so populated my rich Europeans and Americans who are even more closely tied to their own cultures.


If you notice those expats in Lycord Cay or PI, they do not come in massive numbers and they tend not to put strain on the country. Also, most of them are not breaking our laws...they are legal.


Unlike the Haitians many of these rich westerners wont even socialize with the local populace and they do not consider themselves Bahamian.


When I lived in the states I had some American friends but the majority of time I was with my Caribbean people and I considered myself Bahamian...not American!!!


Is your problem with the Haitians rooted in the facts that they are POOR and BLACK (historical reasons worldwide for prejudice)? Would you ...do you have the same issues with the Rich westerners locked behind gates on Lyford Cay, or PI or any of the other exclusive neighborhoods built to keep you out?


I know for me personally, I don't really care about the race issue. But I do have a slight problem with massive amounts of persons sneaking in the Bahamas and putting a heavy load on our country eg the schools, some Bahamians kids have a hard time getting into the schools because they are already full. Another eg is our healthcare system, don't go to PMH bleeding because you would have to wait behind 500 illegal pregnant Haitians all in labor.

If you notice those expats in Lycord Cay or PI, they do not come in massive numbers and they tend not to put strain on the country. Also, most of them are not breaking our laws...they are legal.
When I lived in the states I had some American friends but the majority of time I was with my Caribbean people and I considered myself Bahamian...not American!!!
I know for me personally, I don't really care about the race issue. But I do have a slight problem with massive amounts of persons sneaking in the Bahamas and putting a heavy load on our country eg the schools, some Bahamians kids have a hard time getting into the schools because they are already full. Another eg is our healthcare system, don't go to PMH bleeding because you would have to wait behind 500 illegal pregnant Haitians all in labor.

:tup: :)

I see that many of you have taken issue with the Haitian immigrants and their continued connection to their Haitian culture. But Bahamas is equally if not more so populated my rich Europeans and Americans who are even more closely tied to their own cultures. Unlike the Haitians many of these rich westerners wont even socialize with the local populace and they do not consider themselves Bahamian. Is your problem with the Haitians rooted in the facts that they are POOR and BLACK (historical reasons worldwide for prejudice)? Would you ...do you have the same issues with the Rich westerners locked behind gates on Lyford Cay, or PI or any of the other exclusive neighborhoods built to keep you out?

It’s all on how you look at it I suppose.

I'm simply posing the question.

(and im a bit of a rabble rouser)

Another attempt to convolute the issue by saying that its a BLACK thing.

It's a numbers thing - and I don't mean gambling either. And where in the world did you get the impression that the same number of Europeans and Americans are here in the Bahamas? That's more than laughable.

Take a look at the immigrant communities of the Mudd and Pigeon Pea, for example. Not a single house in that community of thousands of people is legal!

What other country would allow that to happen, except here in The Bahamas?

Americans and Europeans actually build their houses legally, create jobs by building those houses, pay huge sums of money for property taxes to the government, send their kids to the best private schools and hire Bahamians in their businesses, many times at better wages than Bahamian companies.

And no one with sense should have a problem with the gated communities, because if they were worth more than a couple million dollars they probably would be living behind those gates too! It's easy to make it a race thing, especially when you don't take into account how many persons are now being robbed at gunpoint and even shot in their homes. The more money you have, the bigger the bullseye is on your forehead.

Another attempt to convolute the issue by saying that its a BLACK thing.
It's a numbers thing - and I don't mean gambling either. And where in the world did you get the impression that the same number of Europeans and Americans are here in the Bahamas? That's more than laughable.
Take a look at the immigrant communities of the Mudd and Pigeon Pea, for example. Not a single house in that community of thousands of people is legal!
What other country would allow that to happen, except here in The Bahamas?
Americans and Europeans actually build their houses legally, create jobs by building those houses, pay huge sums of property taxes, send their kids to the best private schools and hire Bahamians in their businesses, many times at better wages than Bahamian companies.
And no one with sense should have a problem with the gated communities, because if they were worth more than a couple million dollars they probably would be living behind those gates too! It's easy to make it a race thing, especially when you don't take into account how many persons are now being robbed at gunpoint and even shot in their homes. The more money you have, the bigger the bullseye is on your forehead.


Actually i was just injecting a thought into a conversation.

But since you want to go there....
...... i didnt say it was exclusively a BLACK thing.....in fact i was more alluding to an argument that its more a MONEY thing than a CULTURAL identity thing. ....to spell it out for you...and your earlier comment about the parading haitians speaking creole...something you took issue with........you have less a problem with the degredation of Bahamian culture and its adoption of those things indicative of the rich western world and its people (good things and bad) than you do with those poor black haitians speaking creole (who by the way have a very rich proud culture).

You defend the Western Cultures malignant use of exclusion and seperation and you cant even see it. And i believe you when you say if you could afford it you would remove yourself to live behind a gated fence and send your children to private school and distance yourself as much as possible from everyday bahamians. I dont have to make it a race thing with you.... you do that all on your own.

Crime certainely relates to a large degree to instances of poverty. But dont think for a moment that rich folks dont commit crime and create victims.....they just do it on a larger scale and are more likely to evade the law. There are for more many good hardworking ethical non stealing poor people than you would have us believe. . . . and not all those rich people you love got their on hard ethical work. Your so anti the people it should be stamped on your forehead.

If you notice those expats in Lycord Cay or PI, they do not come in massive numbers and they tend not to put strain on the country. Also, most of them are not breaking our laws...they are legal.
When I lived in the states I had some American friends but the majority of time I was with my Caribbean people and I considered myself Bahamian...not American!!!
I know for me personally, I don't really care about the race issue. But I do have a slight problem with massive amounts of persons sneaking in the Bahamas and putting a heavy load on our country eg the schools, some Bahamians kids have a hard time getting into the schools because they are already full. Another eg is our healthcare system, don't go to PMH bleeding because you would have to wait behind 500 illegal pregnant Haitians all in labor.


I can relate to everything you say here (cept the 500 pregnant haitians thing....a bit dramatic). I agree with the fact that immigration is def a problem thats needs to be addressed. But the Haitain people have been a part of our islands for a long time and solving the problem must take into consideration the benefits they have brought to our island, the work they have done.......and we must dispense of the polarizing rhetoric (ala Yorrick) of Haitian equalling crime....degrading culture...etc...... I been robbed by bahamians, americans....and others....the only thing a Haitian ever did to me was keep a damn good yard and a very clean house. Just saying....solve the problems of illegal immigration for the right reasons.....dispense of the rhetoric.

I really dont care if the Haitians are the most peacefull. Of course I dont see a Haitian jonser, but the point for me is that they are breaking laws. The first law anybody meets when they enter a country, or even wishes to enter a country is its immigration laws. How can you say you want to be apart of the country and its society and you break the first law?

My take is that most Hatians do not want to be in this society. People point out how much they contribute to our nation, but the thing is we are either being milked by Illegals who just want to benefit from a better economy or we are their stepping stone to another country. Free healthcare for illegals will just create another benefit as others have already said a benifit that we still will pay for one way or the other.

Actually i was just injecting a thought into a conversation.
But since you want to go there....
...... i didnt say it was exclusively a BLACK thing.....in fact i was more alluding to an argument that its more a MONEY thing than a CULTURAL identity thing. ....to spell it out for you...and your earlier comment about the parading haitians speaking creole...something you took issue with........you have less a problem with the degredation of Bahamian culture and its adoption of those things indicative of the rich western world and its people (good things and bad) than you do with those poor black haitians speaking creole (who by the way have a very rich proud culture).
You defend the Western Cultures malignant use of exclusion and seperation and you cant even see it. And i believe you when you say if you could afford it you would remove yourself to live behind a gated fence and send your children to private school and distance yourself as much as possible from everyday bahamians. I dont have to make it a race thing with you.... you do that all on your own.
Crime certainely relates to a large degree to instances of poverty. But dont think for a moment that rich folks dont commit crime and create victims.....they just do it on a larger scale and are more likely to evade the law. There are for more many good hardworking ethical non stealing poor people than you would have us believe. . . . and not all those rich people you love got their on hard ethical work. Your so anti the people it should be stamped on your forehead.

When did it all become about me? Wow, I feel special! Read my post again.

I never said anything about ME doing any of the things you stated - unless "they" reads as "me" in your mind.

From what I can perceive from your post, you clearly believe that success, aiming higher in life and making sure that one's kids have the best education that they possibly can have are acts of exclusion and separation - brought about by "Western culture".

Now I understand...you simply want to take the opposing argument to what I say and then attempt to undermine my rationale regarding this situation.

I'm not falling into that obvious trap, especially from someone who doesn't have a clue of what really is happening in this country. Might I add that one of the young men proudly called out to all the members of the Zoe Pound gang that he saw as they passed by in the parade. He said that they don't need to worry about Shane Gibson and his raids - Immigration wouldn't dare raid Zoe Pound boys 'cause they've got bigger guns!

Let's also not forget that those young men couldn't even tell me what the parade was all about - "Rich proud culture" indeed.

I see that many of you have taken issue with the Haitian immigrants and their continued connection to their Haitian culture. But Bahamas is equally if not more so populated my rich Europeans and Americans who are even more closely tied to their own cultures. Unlike the Haitians many of these rich westerners wont even socialize with the local populace and they do not consider themselves Bahamian. Is your problem with the Haitians rooted in the facts that they are POOR and BLACK (historical reasons worldwide for prejudice)? Would you ...do you have the same issues with the Rich westerners locked behind gates on Lyford Cay, or PI or any of the other exclusive neighborhoods built to keep you out?

It’s all on how you look at it I suppose.

I'm simply posing the question.

(and im a bit of a rabble rouser)

Buddy....You are way out of line with dis and I know you are intellegent enough to have known that when you wrote it.:sarcastic

As rude and condecending as foreignors can be,they mostly add needed dollars to our economy.In any capitalist economy,when the wealthy spend,the rest earn a bit.:gi:

Illegal Hyshen immigrants are an entirely different issue,they bring nothing but strong backs(maybe) to the Bahamas,they tax our socail services,fill our schools and immodestly leer at our women to the point of rudeness.:sparky:

If you wa to start a tred on da problems foreignors cause or bring here,I will be happy to join in,but this post is truly mixin apples wit oranges!:hammer:

Now I understand...you simply want to take the opposing argument to what I say and then attempt to undermine my rationale regarding this situation.

As much as i would like to deny this....I have read enough of your posts to have become slightly biased of your views. I'm not proud of that. however im still waiting for the day that you will elighten with me with something other than your typical well versed rhetoric.

I'm not falling into that obvious trap, especially from someone who doesn't have a clue of what really is happening in this country. Might I add that one of the young men proudly called out to all the members of the Zoe Pound gang that he saw as they passed by in the parade. He said that they don't need to worry about Shane Gibson and his raids - Immigration wouldn't dare raid Zoe Pound boys 'cause they've got bigger guns!

Let's also not forget that those young men couldn't even tell me what the parade was all about - "Rich proud culture" indeed.

I know bigoted views when i see them. I see them all the time. We could change a few of your words and you could be talking about Mexicans, or Haitians in Miami, or any number of poor people from poverty stricken nations who have fled to other countries seeking better pay, health care and education for their families. Your easy to spot.

Might I add that one of the young men proudly called out to all the members of the Zoe Pound gang that he saw as they passed by in the parade. He said that they don't need to worry about Shane Gibson and his raids - Immigration wouldn't dare raid Zoe Pound boys 'cause they've got bigger guns!

Let's also not forget that those young men couldn't even tell me what the parade was all about - "Rich proud culture" indeed.

You have the typical views of an alarmist. How many of our homegrown locally born bahamian men have guns and threaten violence? How many young men can you find running around bay street at Junkanoo with nary a clue of the history and culture behind it? Would you argue their ignorance equals no culture and history for the Bahamas. You think to simply. A wanna be Bahamian Rush Limbaugh. Its easy to point the finger at the Haitians and say they are the problem. Its something else to see a problem for what it really is and to come up with real solutions instead of poorly formulated rhetoric aimed to incite the bahamian people and accomplish little.

Immigration is definetly a problem. But address it as humans addressing other humans and dont believe the rhetoric, alarmist, prejudiced views of a few. Haitians are for the most part good people in a difficult situation. A situation that must be addressed. Just make sure you address it for the right reasons.

Buddy....You are way out of line with dis and I know you are intellegent enough to have known that when you wrote it.:sarcastic
As rude and condecending as foreignors can be,they mostly add needed dollars to our economy.In any capitalist economy,when the wealthy spend,the rest earn a bit.:gi:
Illegal Hyshen immigrants are an entirely different issue,they bring nothing but strong backs(maybe) to the Bahamas,they tax our socail services,fill our schools and immodestly leer at our women to the point of rudeness.:sparky:
If you wa to start a tred on da problems foreignors cause or bring here,I will be happy to join in,but this post is truly mixin apples wit oranges!:hammer:


Ok true i see what you are saying. I disagree but i see. Im not saying thousands of poor anyone injected into a country not willing to take them is a good thing. I agree that much has to be done to address the problem. Its a problem that has to be addressed. I am taking issue with the barely contained prejudice being used by people on this board as fuel to address the problem. (examples include: Haitians are violent, they lack culture, they only offer strong backs, they lure at our women, are you reading what i am). This is ridiculous. How is that different than saying: Black people are lazy, black people are violen, black people lure at our women, black are good for thier strong backs but their mind power is worthless. You are too smart not to see that. This is the rhetoric i am talking about. Its all nonsense. And its only directed at the Haitians and not the equally problematic (albeit rich) westerners.....who you forgive because they might pay you a dollar more....just dont try to date the daughters!!! I mean come on. How can you really adress the Haitian problem if you choose this line of thinking as your base. If you start from baseless rhetoric and prejudice you would be doing yourself a disservice.

Thats what im saying

I grew up on exuma..I know of what you speak...and I would love to share all those experience with my children as I would hope they would with theirs...but because I know what our country could be...I will not fall for your bush and backward "it was so good back then" rhetoric...we still can still have all those things you spoke about and still function like we live in the west...why cant 300 people be environmentally friendly in our country?
the reality of life is that time change...I hate to admit it but our country is evolving into something that we really will have no control over because our leaders dont have the vision to see it for what it really is(ie illegeal immigrants and the developers and foreignors coming in taking up space)...the world is a different place these days...the more knowledgeable and aware we are about it the "better" of we'll be...
Hmmm!

Ok true i see what you are saying. I disagree but i see. Im not saying thousands of poor anyone injected into a country not willing to take them is a good thing. I agree that much has to be done to address the problem. Its a problem that has to be addressed. I am taking issue with the barely contained prejudice being used by people on this board as fuel to address the problem. (examples include: Haitians are violent, they lack culture, they only offer strong backs, they lure at our women, are you reading what i am). This is ridiculous. How is that different than saying: Black people are lazy, black people are violen, black people lure at our women, black are good for thier strong backs but their mind power is worthless. You are too smart not to see that. This is the rhetoric i am talking about. Its all nonsense. And its only directed at the Haitians and not the equally problematic (albeit rich) westerners.....who you forgive because they might pay you a dollar more....just dont try to date the daughters!!! I mean come on. How can you really adress the Haitian problem if you choose this line of thinking as your base. If you start from baseless rhetoric and prejudice you would be doing yourself a disservice.
Thats what im saying

I respect your humanitarian concern fa da Hyshens,even admire it.Howeva da real picture should be da humanitarian concerns of da Bahamian people.Excuse me.....a country a millions,all wa to leave, many wa come Bahamas a country a only 360.000,too many are here already.Man we got real concerns here!Do you live here?Are you a Hyshen,even Bahamian born Hyshen?Why you so much into dem?Just ta be a good guy?:dgi:

The LEGAL foreign issue is an entirely different one.:)

Well, the location does say stateside......:dgi: