I know bigoted views when i see them. I see them all the time. We could change a few of your words and you could be talking about Mexicans, or Haitians in Miami, or any number of poor people from poverty stricken nations who have fled to other countries seeking better pay, health care and education for their families. Your easy to spot.
Ah I see...

It's a bigoted view when a larger immigrant population of millions continues to pour into this country relatively unabated. It's a bigoted view when anyone can get a permit for any illegal immigrant by simply paying a few hundred dollars to the right person. It's a bigoted view when we have an immigrant population that is almost 1/5 of our total population.

My goodness...what exactly do you mean by you “know bigoted views when you see them”? You are making ridiculous assumptions based on very little, as well as without knowing exactly how deep this immigration situation has penetrated Bahamian society. You are sitting over there in the U.S., SPECULATING about what we Bahamians see EVERY SINGLE DAY. You seem to want to attack a person's views even when all that they are doing is simply stating the obvious. Some of our family island communities are overrun with immigrants, but yet you want Bahamians to stay quiet or accuse us of being elitist or racist. It almost seems, according to your advice, that Bahamians just should be good little island people and share our country with a fellow Black foreign population, irregardless of the obvious instability issues that will arise due to rapid overpopulation without systematic planning or forethought. Good advice man. :sarcastic


You have the typical views of an alarmist. How many of our homegrown locally born bahamian men have guns and threaten violence? How many young men can you find running around bay street at Junkanoo with nary a clue of the history and culture behind it? Would you argue their ignorance equals no culture and history for the Bahamas. You think to simply. A wanna be Bahamian Rush Limbaugh. Its easy to point the finger at the Haitians and say they are the problem. Its something else to see a problem for what it really is and to come up with real solutions instead of poorly formulated rhetoric aimed to incite the bahamian people and accomplish little.
Immigration is definetly a problem. But address it as humans addressing other humans and dont believe the rhetoric, alarmist, prejudiced views of a few. Haitians are for the most part good people in a difficult situation. A situation that must be addressed. Just make sure you address it for the right reasons.

I can see that you haven't been home in a while because the gangs don’t run around on Bay Street at Junkanoo anymore - you can't even get onto the main part of Bay Street without a ticket!

The solutions are very obvious, but with persons like you who jump to conclusions and misinterpret the intentions of Bahamians who voice their views based on everyday life events, I can see why the road to eliminating this immigration problem will be very difficult to deal with. Someone like you will always try to play the race, poverty or innocent victim “card”.

You unfairly call my views prejudiced, yet do not see the glaring truth behind them. This is the same group of young men who stated before that “they will take over Nassau”. The same young men who have taken over our drug trade since most of our Bahamian drug lords have been locked away in HMP or in the US. These are the same young men who do not have a proper education nor do they want one. But all that you can do is bring up a weak example of gangs at Junkanoo – a situation that has been dealt with years ago.

You also seem to not want anyone to place any blame on the Haitians for anything. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? When a person takes responsibility for their actions and is honest, they will not break the laws of another country for any reason. What you are suggesting however, is that anyone who points out this indiscretion is racist and picking on the poor people. This is blatantly incorrect.

The rule of law was created for a reason. If society becomes a place where the rules and regulations can be circumvented due to the excuse of poverty or hardship, then the system will inevitably crumble and fail. Why? Simply because as more of them break into our system without permission, the easier it is for them to leave the door open for others. Haiti is a perfect example of what corruption does to a country. Corruption is why they cannot get on their feet or fix their nation to a point where it will grow and thrive. Until ALL Haitians take personal responsibility and stop running away from their problems, Haiti will always be in the mess that it is in. Now we have persons like you seemingly telling us Bahamians to just allow our border and immigration rules to be grossly overridden by foreign persons because they are "good people in a difficult situation"? Get real man!

Whatever happened to Bahamians standing up for our rights as Bahamians in a Bahamian society? Now we have to be obliged to allow others to take pieces of our pie or to hold our tongues as we watch our society be invaded by another? You, like many others of your ilk, assume that anyone who speaks out on the illegal immigration situation automatically is prejudiced against Haitians. That in itself is a viewpoint and a generalization which based on a prejudice against those who speak out. (Like it is said: judge not, lest ye be judged)

If we don’t stand up for something, we will fall for anything and this immigration situation definitely will cause the fall of The Bahamas if Bahamians don’t stand up and do something.

Hmmm!

sure did(till I was 11) and at the end of the day it is where I will lay my head...next regatta you can stay with us ;)

I see that many of you have taken issue with the Haitian immigrants and their continued connection to their Haitian culture. But Bahamas is equally if not more so populated my rich Europeans and Americans who are even more closely tied to their own cultures. Unlike the Haitians many of these rich westerners wont even socialize with the local populace and they do not consider themselves Bahamian. Is your problem with the Haitians rooted in the facts that they are POOR and BLACK (historical reasons worldwide for prejudice)? Would you ...do you have the same issues with the Rich westerners locked behind gates on Lyford Cay, or PI or any of the other exclusive neighborhoods built to keep you out?

It’s all on how you look at it I suppose.

I'm simply posing the question.

(and im a bit of a rabble rouser)



In case you didnt know it, we the Bahamas are a Western Nation and you, me, every Bahamian, is a Westerner.

As you also must have noticed, the US and other countries have many different varying cultures.

Living "behind the gate" isnt as safe as people are made to think. Actually the board is really cheap/indecisive and havent yet put in the proper security devices even after years of bids. They have more violent home invations than I'd care to mention.

On the subject of biggotry, wouldnt your views on Rich Foriegnors be the same thing, or does it only work one way?

Also, what makes you think there aren't any Rich Bahamians (all races) living "behind the gate". And if its a color issue with you and your Rich Foriegnors, you are obviously forgetting the many Rich Black Americans who also visit or live in the Bahamas; or does that not count?

Lastly, Maybe there is a dollar value you like to put on what makes a person rich? If so, you can buy a Home "behind the gate" for under $1 mill easily, which is pocket change for many Bahamians of all races.

But to end ... I do see a major problem with Illegal Foreignors, Especially the Americans and Canadians, who come here on vacation, work for 2 weeks or 2 months (eg. Ocean Club, Lyford Cay), get room, board and food free, and take home $500k+ which if Bahamians were utilized, could have helped our own economy - but the money just keeps going out of the country.

:)

sure did(till I was 11) and at the end of the day it is where I will lay my head...next regatta you can stay with us ;)


Eleven? You bin gone long time, man ...

Eleven? You bin gone long time, man ...

you say it as if I never went back...that's home...how can someone forget there home...:duh:een nothing (FOR ME) to do there that's the only reason why im not there now...I couldnt tell you the last time a white person has been in our housenot that it matters anyway...but your welcome next regatta too...your Bahamian, I wont bite you :)

black or white, you're welcome to eleuthera homecoming, palmetto point homecoming, bluff homecoming, briland homecoming ... only thing that will bite are the fish. tight lines to ya!

you say it as if I never went back...that's home...how can someone forget there home...:duh:een nothing (FOR ME) to do there that's the only reason why im not there now...I couldnt tell you the last time a white person has been in our housenot that it matters anyway...but your welcome next regatta too...your Bahamian, I wont bite you :)

Y mention a white in da house?:confused: been hurt by some?
I knew ya wa an islang gurl wit that hot tongue!:angel: island gurlz r very independant. how can u stand nassau,it so fake?:)

you say it as if I never went back...that's home...how can someone forget there home...:duh:een nothing (FOR ME) to do there that's the only reason why im not there now...I couldnt tell you the last time a white person has been in our housenot that it matters anyway...but your welcome next regatta too...your Bahamian, I wont bite you :)

kill whitey ... :hammer:

I respect your humanitarian concern fa da Hyshens,even admire it.Howeva da real picture should be da humanitarian concerns of da Bahamian people.Excuse me.....a country a millions,all wa to leave, many wa come Bahamas a country a only 360.000,too many are here already.Man we got real concerns here!Do you live here?Are you a Hyshen,even Bahamian born Hyshen?Why you so much into dem?Just ta be a good guy?:dgi:
The LEGAL foreign issue is an entirely different one.:)

Maybe he is Hayshen

Y mention a white in da house?:confused: been hurt by some?
I knew ya wa an islang gurl wit that hot tongue!:angel: island gurlz r very independant. how can u stand nassau,it so fake?:)

I just have my reservations...that is all. Nassau fake...I didnt get that...to each his own...but then again I am a different kind of person...

Ah I see...

It's a bigoted view when a larger immigrant population of millions continues to pour into this country relatively unabated. It's a bigoted view when anyone can get a permit for any illegal immigrant by simply paying a few hundred dollars to the right person. It's a bigoted view when we have an immigrant population that is almost 1/5 of our total population.

My goodness...what exactly do you mean by you “know bigoted views when you see them”? You are making ridiculous assumptions based on very little, as well as without knowing exactly how deep this immigration situation has penetrated Bahamian society. You are sitting over there in the U.S., SPECULATING about what we Bahamians see EVERY SINGLE DAY. You seem to want to attack a person's views even when all that they are doing is simply stating the obvious. Some of our family island communities are overrun with immigrants, but yet you want Bahamians to stay quiet or accuse us of being elitist or racist. It almost seems, according to your advice, that Bahamians just should be good little island people and share our country with a fellow Black foreign population, irregardless of the obvious instability issues that will arise due to rapid overpopulation without systematic planning or forethought. Good advice man. :sarcastic


I can see that you haven't been home in a while because the gangs don’t run around on Bay Street at Junkanoo anymore - you can't even get onto the main part of Bay Street without a ticket!

The solutions are very obvious, but with persons like you who jump to conclusions and misinterpret the intentions of Bahamians who voice their views based on everyday life events, I can see why the road to eliminating this immigration problem will be very difficult to deal with. Someone like you will always try to play the race, poverty or innocent victim “card”.

You unfairly call my views prejudiced, yet do not see the glaring truth behind them. This is the same group of young men who stated before that “they will take over Nassau”. The same young men who have taken over our drug trade since most of our Bahamian drug lords have been locked away in HMP or in the US. These are the same young men who do not have a proper education nor do they want one. But all that you can do is bring up a weak example of gangs at Junkanoo – a situation that has been dealt with years ago.

You also seem to not want anyone to place any blame on the Haitians for anything. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? When a person takes responsibility for their actions and is honest, they will not break the laws of another country for any reason. What you are suggesting however, is that anyone who points out this indiscretion is racist and picking on the poor people. This is blatantly incorrect.

The rule of law was created for a reason. If society becomes a place where the rules and regulations can be circumvented due to the excuse of poverty or hardship, then the system will inevitably crumble and fail. Why? Simply because as more of them break into our system without permission, the easier it is for them to leave the door open for others. Haiti is a perfect example of what corruption does to a country. Corruption is why they cannot get on their feet or fix their nation to a point where it will grow and thrive. Until ALL Haitians take personal responsibility and stop running away from their problems, Haiti will always be in the mess that it is in. Now we have persons like you seemingly telling us Bahamians to just allow our border and immigration rules to be grossly overridden by foreign persons because they are "good people in a difficult situation"? Get real man!

Whatever happened to Bahamians standing up for our rights as Bahamians in a Bahamian society? Now we have to be obliged to allow others to take pieces of our pie or to hold our tongues as we watch our society be invaded by another? You, like many others of your ilk, assume that anyone who speaks out on the illegal immigration situation automatically is prejudiced against Haitians. That in itself is a viewpoint and a generalization which based on a prejudice against those who speak out. (Like it is said: judge not, lest ye be judged)

If we don’t stand up for something, we will fall for anything and this immigration situation definitely will cause the fall of The Bahamas if Bahamians don’t stand up and do something.


Its your tactics/rhetoric i take issue with not the argument that immigration reform is neccessary.

Where to start? You attempt several times to diminish me as a Bahamian....to what end? I am and i need not prove it to you.

And lets be clear: There is an immigration problem that needs addressing. I never said that wasnt the case. A PROBLEM NEEDS FIXING.

Its your tactics i take issue with not the argument that immigration reform is neccessary.

Many of you question why i defend the haitians? why do i care am i haitian? But you dont even see what i have been arguing against since the moment i joined. Not all any kind of people are anything. You collectively label all Haitians as problem causers and you blame all nassaus problems on haitians. Ive seen those kind of broad generalizations countless times in history.

Blacks just want to date our women and take our land. Whites just want to rape our women and oppress our people. Jews arent trustworthy. Chinese are good at math but they all have small.... Phuleease.

All haitians arent anything.

You argue for immigration reform by starting with that Haitians are bad, Haitians are the drug barons and the current cause of our drug problems, Haitians steal, Haitians are violent. I dont think haitians are (fill in the blank with any number of words). Nor do i think Blacks are (fill in) or whites are (fill in) or women are (fill in). Bigots however do carry a familiar odor. You demonize the entire class of haitian people in your efforts to garner support for the immigration reform we all know is necessary. Is Necessary. Is Necessary. What isnt necessary is your demonization of an entire subclass of the population.

Its your tactics/rhetoric i take issue with not the argument that immigration reform is neccessary.

I am not Haitian and cant say i know many personally other than those that have worked for my family as housekeepers, gardeners etc.... in the past. But there are many haitian doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters. And they deserve more than the vitriolic spew you seem only capable of. You chastise me for seeking to eliminate the prejudice from the conversation. Carry on smartly.


In case you didnt know it, we the Bahamas are a Western Nation and you, me, every Bahamian, is a Westerner.

As you also must have noticed, the US and other countries have many different varying cultures.

Living "behind the gate" isnt as safe as people are made to think. Actually the board is really cheap/indecisive and havent yet put in the proper security devices even after years of bids. They have more violent home invations than I'd care to mention.

On the subject of biggotry, wouldnt your views on Rich Foriegnors be the same thing, or does it only work one way?

Also, what makes you think there aren't any Rich Bahamians (all races) living "behind the gate". And if its a color issue with you and your Rich Foriegnors, you are obviously forgetting the many Rich Black Americans who also visit or live in the Bahamas; or does that not count?

Lastly, Maybe there is a dollar value you like to put on what makes a person rich? If so, you can buy a Home "behind the gate" for under $1 mill easily, which is pocket change for many Bahamians of all races.

But to end ... I do see a major problem with Illegal Foreignors, Especially the Americans and Canadians, who come here on vacation, work for 2 weeks or 2 months (eg. Ocean Club, Lyford Cay), get room, board and food free, and take home $500k+ which if Bahamians were utilized, could have helped our own economy - but the money just keeps going out of the country.


Bigotry works all kinds of ways. And i dont have a bias against rich foreigners. Some have accused me of being one. And i'm black. And i know there are rich bahamians living behind gates. We have a house up from cable beach. Nothing but wealthy bahamians living behind gates. And yes invasions do occur. (Bahamian thugs not Haitians). You can be a wealthy man and still be living check to check. A million dollar house is never pocket change no matter how many we have in Nassau.

And i may have confused some with my comparison to the wealthy foreigners. Let me clarify.

I only threw that in to rebut the argument that Bahamian culture is being diluted by Haitian culture and we better do something to stop it quick. Bahamian culture is being diluted by many things and its being diluted far more comprehensibly by the rich western cultures than by the haitians.


All this to say. I was educated to a large degree in Nassau. My classmates and my family are some of the brightest people i know. Bahamians (used to be?) too smart to dumb down responses to real problems. We are a western country but i will always argue that we do not make the mistakes of other western countries when dealing with our problems. And yes as a black western country i do demand more of our leaders when addressing the Haitian crisis. If we cant address them on a humanitarian level...who exactly will?

You collectively label all Haitians as problem causers and you blame all nassaus problems on haitians. Ive seen those kind of broad generalizations countless times in history.
Blacks just want to date our women and take our land. Whites just want to rape our women and oppress our people. Jews arent trustworthy. Chinese are good at math but they all have small.... Phuleease.
All haitians arent anything.
You argue for immigration reform by starting with that Haitians are bad, Haitians are the drug barons and the current cause of our drug problems, Haitians steal, Haitians are violent. I dont think haitians are (fill in the blank with any number of words). Nor do i think Blacks are (fill in) or whites are (fill in) or women are (fill in). Bigots however do carry a familiar odor. You demonize the entire class of haitian people in your efforts to garner support for the immigration reform we all know is necessary. Is Necessary. Is Necessary. What isnt necessary is your demonization of an entire subclass of the population.

Tsk…tsk…False accusations and your own oversensitive twist on what you believe we Bahamians are trying to say. Those are harsh words you’re throwing out there when you claim that someone is demonizing an entire population. You really need to calm down and stop trying so hard to negatively label those who have the sense to speak out against this illegal immigration situation.

Your tactics are quite clear: What you are trying to do is stop anyone from saying anything negative about certain parts of the Haitian populous here in Nassau, despite how true what we are saying is. If a Haitian drug gang said that they "will take over Nassau" and that they "have bigger guns than the immigration department", then that's what they said. What you are trying to do, however, is twist that statement as if someone said that all Haitians want to take over Nassau. Do you have a problem with interpreting the English language? The statement was made and is absolutely true about the subject of that statement. It is you who are trying to read more into things and put some sort of prejudicial label on clear and obvious facts.

I guess that what you are doing can be expected though. Persons like yourself do not know what to do when Bahamians who are clearly not bigots actually voice their opinions on the matter and put truth on the table. You seem to be one of those persons who automatically jumps up and says "You're a racist" if someone else says anything remotely negative about members of certain groups. Sometimes the truth hurts and someone has to say it. Here in The Bahamas we call it "mashing corns".

People like you who propose that Bahamians are prejudiced against Haitians obviously haven't been home long enough to see how this country embraces those Haitians who are legal and those Bahamians who were born of Haitian parentage. We date, marry, work, live, drink, eat, laugh, cry and even argue with them. No one else seems to be taking the stated facts as deeply to heart as you are or trying to overanalyze or demonize anyone, for that matter.

Nice try though.

Tsk…tsk…False accusations and your own oversensitive twist on what you believe we Bahamians are trying to say. Those are harsh words you’re throwing out there when you claim that someone is demonizing an entire population. You really need to calm down and stop trying so hard to negatively label those who have the sense to speak out against this illegal immigration situation.

Your tactics are quite clear: What you are trying to do is stop anyone from saying anything negative about certain parts of the Haitian populous here in Nassau, despite how true what we are saying is. If a Haitian drug gang said that they "will take over Nassau" and that they "have bigger guns than the immigration department", then that's what they said. What you are trying to do, however, is twist that statement as if someone said that all Haitians want to take over Nassau. Do you have a problem with interpreting the English language? The statement was made and is absolutely tue about the subject of that statement. It is you who are trying to read more into things and put some sort of prejudicial label on clear and obvious facts.

I guess that what you are doing can be expected though. Persons like yourself do not know what to do when Bahamians who are clearly not bigots actually voice their opinions on the matter and put truth on the table. You seem to be one of those persons who automatically jumps up and says "You're a racist" if someone else says anything remotely negative about members of certain groups. Sometimes the truth hurts and someone has to say it. Here in The Bahamas we call it "mashing corns".

People like you who propose that Bahamians are prejudiced against Haitians obviously haven't been home long enough to see how this country embraces those Haitians who are legal and those Bahamians who were born of Haitian parentage. We date, marry, work, live, drink, eat, laugh, cry and even argue with them. No one else seems to be taking the stated facts as deeply to heart as you are or trying to overanalyze or demonize anyone, for that matter.

Nice try though.

My Brudda....You speak so clearly.Dat is exactly how I feel.This man apparently has an agenda that he is not revealing. Our culture,our fragile culture,our identidy as a people is under seige here.If hyshens are legal and embrace our culture.....dey are Bahamians. Well said n thank you.:)

Tsk…tsk…False accusations and your own oversensitive twist on what you believe we Bahamians are trying to say. Those are harsh words you’re throwing out there when you claim that someone is demonizing an entire population. You really need to calm down and stop trying so hard to negatively label those who have the sense to speak out against this illegal immigration situation.

Your tactics are quite clear: What you are trying to do is stop anyone from saying anything negative about certain parts of the Haitian populous here in Nassau, despite how true what we are saying is. If a Haitian drug gang said that they "will take over Nassau" and that they "have bigger guns than the immigration department", then that's what they said. What you are trying to do, however, is twist that statement as if someone said that all Haitians want to take over Nassau. Do you have a problem with interpreting the English language? The statement was made and is absolutely true about the subject of that statement. It is you who are trying to read more into things and put some sort of prejudicial label on clear and obvious facts.

I guess that what you are doing can be expected though. Persons like yourself do not know what to do when Bahamians who are clearly not bigots actually voice their opinions on the matter and put truth on the table. You seem to be one of those persons who automatically jumps up and says "You're a racist" if someone else says anything remotely negative about members of certain groups. Sometimes the truth hurts and someone has to say it. Here in The Bahamas we call it "mashing corns".

People like you who propose that Bahamians are prejudiced against Haitians obviously haven't been home long enough to see how this country embraces those Haitians who are legal and those Bahamians who were born of Haitian parentage. We date, marry, work, live, drink, eat, laugh, cry and even argue with them. No one else seems to be taking the stated facts as deeply to heart as you are or trying to overanalyze or demonize anyone, for that matter.

Nice try though.


You give yourself to much credit. Your not qualified to speak for all Bahamian people and i never considered that you were. My comments are directed to you. You again speak about "we Bahamians" in an attempts to separate me from you. FYI ...You don’t speak for me either.

People don’t employ "tactics" to rebut prejudice. We use truth, common sense and decency.

Im sure there are many problematic Haitians. Just as there are many problematic (fill in the blank). Im taking issue with your unjust and overly broad generalizations. Your sound bites of animosity. Although its nice to see you finally note that there are many good Haitian people out there. Baby steps....but its a start.

But im moving on....waving my white flag of i've had enough of Yorricks (not Bahamians) pseudo intellectual rhetoric. Ive said it before. People of intellect, reason and morality can have different opinions. This is not a conversation between you and I. I know what you think. You know what i think. Im interested in hearing what other "fellow" Bahamians think.

nice try? at what? this aint a competition.

My Brudda....You speak so clearly.Dat is exactly how I feel.This man apparently has an agenda that he is not revealing. Our culture,our fragile culture,our identidy as a people is under seige here.If hyshens are legal and embrace our culture.....dey are Bahamians. Well said n thank you.

suck teet. And what exactly would my agenda be? Maybe to put the mirror to your face. Go ahead ..... take a look. The culture is fragile....and much needs to be done. Just make sure you approach the issue with your eyes open and not with your ears inflammed with false rhetoric.

Your not qualified to speak for all Bahamian people and i never considered that you were. My comments are directed to you. You again speak about "we Bahamians" in an attempts to separate me from you.

You know what i think. Im interested in hearing what other "fellow" Bahamians think.

Aw my...don't get all pissy nah.

What I've said in my previous paragraphs is a summarization of what I hear from people of all walks of life on a daily basis - Rich, poor, black, white, politicians, the average joe, Bahamians, Haitians, men and women. Everyone here in The Bahamas sees the problem and are pretty much fed up with persons who insult our intelligence by claiming that any Bahamian who says or does something about the illegal immigration situation is racist, xenophobic or not humanitarian. Enough is enough - We see, hear and live the reality! The face of The Bahamas is rapidly changing (literally and figuratively) because of the continued influx of these persons to our shores. We live this reality - You can only guess and make assumptions because you are NOT here!

Whenever you actually come back home to live, you'll begin to understand.

Persons who actually live here in The Bahamas know the real deal about our immigration situation. We haven’t been racially oversensitized like most persons living in the U.S who try to put politically correct labels on a situation that they know very little about! It's funny how that seems to be the trend, everyone else wants to tell us BAHAMIANS what to do with OUR country. Even though we tell these OUTSIDERS the facts, they then boldly try to tell us Bahamians that we are spreading "false rhetoric". You must really think that we Bahamians are stupid. We see the rapidly growing number of illegal immigrants in our communities; we see the drug gangs and their "shipments" of drugs and guns come in (with more illegal immigrants, I might add); we see the shanty houses being built with no housing permits on stolen land; we see the government handing out work visas as if they were candy (due to traitors within the system); and we see how Bahamians are finding it harder to utilize or are even being turned away from our health and education systems due to overburdening by this group of immigrants. But worst of all, you expect us NOT to say anything about these things and then dare to tell us that the information we see with our own eyes is FALSE - You must be absolutely mad!

You need to get off your "high horse", buy a plane ticket, come back home, live for a few years and then come back to this topic. You don't know what you are talking about!