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View Full Version : The drums of democracy, another experiment?


Iupdate
08-21-05, - 12:10 PM
There is a lot of talk and brag about democracy, democracy. How silly it is that we brag about democracy when democracy now justifies the means for war and depredation of human rights and lives. It all boils down to just another uncertain and indefinite experiment to be scrapped later for something else. The drums of democracy has long been sounding as a way and means towards a common and civilize world. The drums made their sound but not much joined the march, but now all may march sooner by force. Isn’t it amazing how all things come to be, as I look back into history I see that force is largely responsible for the order that governs mind while material reward governs and makes loyal the hearts. Is that it? is this not the democracy that we so cherish and others perish for? But Why?

Every four or five years the people gather to decide their leaders through an electoral process. How much good is this when more than half the number has been paying attention to Mickey mouse instead of who or what they are voting for? This makes as much sense as a student walking up to receive his graduate diploma where he has not even taken the exams or attended classes. We vote to have a voice but once these kings sit on the seats of power we become pigs of their experiments, experiments that usually exclude their friends and relative but instead resulting in high suffering human tolls, a waist and squandering of public funds in their bid to satisfy their tit-for-tat rages. This makes as much sense as a drunk giving up his bottle in promise for the hands of a beautiful bride, but once this is done he picks up the bottle again and forces his bride into submission. What’s the difference? Theocracy and communism oppress, ignore, slaughter families and have families slaughtered? Is democracy also not the same experiment? Why, the same rhetorical device, and what on earth for?

But it has yet more leverage in its pipeline and Unless the system of democracy is allowed to evolve I’ll say then that democracy has just about reached its limits and maximum point of effectiveness. In the way it is, taken largely as a vehicle for political, commercial, industrial and personal interest driving humans more so apart rather than towards unity for a closer and harmonious relation with each other. Lacking the necessary drive democracy has been unable to manage the swelling or flux of a present day human is society no better than the rest of the older mass governing experiments. So then why all the brags and talk about democracy when it is the same as the other failed and failing experiments and in some ways, far lesser?

In conclusion, neither one of these system including theocracy, communism or democracy are failures in themselves. Each is a workable experimental system and any would do just as good as the other, but only, and if the men appointed resist the temptation of ordained and honored authority to hurdle humans like cattle’s as they choose. And, if only the men appointed resist the temptation of ordained and honored authority remain loyal to the interest of people rather than immortal image, or personal interest.

How wonderful any one of these system would be if citizens were allowed to work voluntarily. And since we speak of patriotism, then why get paid or set out to gain to work for your country in the first place? If it was so, who would do it, who would be patriotic? Then again this is another subject.

canewry
08-21-05, - 01:35 PM
a lot of words with no solution....
but point taken...

RockWell
08-21-05, - 02:36 PM
(Democracy = a form of government in which policy is decided by the preference of the majority in a decision-making process, usually elections or referendum, open to all or most citizens.) Every thing else is just a bunch of hogwash & political speak.

Great Demos
08-22-05, - 04:12 PM
Iupdate, you can't blame democracy or any other form of government for human failings -- its not the form of government, its us imperfect humans who are at the root of failure or whatever other negetive situations you are attributing to forms of governments.

Remember, these turbulent times, violence, wars, etc., were all carried out during Bible times. Even God Himself became fed up with man's inhumanity to man! Just read the first 3 or 4 verses of Genesis chapter 6. He regretted that he made man on this earth, and he repented!

I can't remember whether it was Shakespeare or the Bible which says that mankind just cannot govern. In the Bible days, the Priest, Prophets, and the Kings all failed in their governance. In these times, the League of Nations, which later became the United Nations, all seem to be failing to bring peace to this earth.

And I don't think mankind will ever achieve good governance and peace in this age, because he simply can't!

Rory
08-22-05, - 04:14 PM
in da future, computers will govern according to programmed laws ..

Tafadhali
08-22-05, - 05:54 PM
in da future, computers will govern according to programmed laws ..

this isnt too far from the truth :biggie:

RockWell
08-22-05, - 06:56 PM
Iupdate, you can't blame democracy or any other form of government for human failings -- its not the form of government, its us imperfect humans who are at the root of failure or whatever other negetive situations you are attributing to forms of governments.

Remember, these turbulent times, violence, wars, etc., were all carried out during Bible times. Even God Himself became fed up with man's inhumanity to man! Just read the first 3 or 4 verses of Genesis chapter 6. He regretted that he made man on this earth, and he repented!

I can't remember whether it was Shakespeare or the Bible which says that mankind just cannot govern. In the Bible days, the Priest, Prophets, and the Kings all failed in their governance. In these times, the League of Nations, which later became the United Nations, all seem to be failing to bring peace to this earth.

And I don't think mankind will ever achieve good governance and peace in this age, because he simply can't!
:tup:

YorickBrown
08-23-05, - 11:54 PM
And I don't think mankind will ever achieve good governance and peace in this age, because he simply can't!

Or perhaps mankind simply won't.

The flaw lies in mankind's measure of oneself. Human society over the ages has based its existence entirely upon hierarchal structures. Without the poor, there would be no rich; without the weak, the powerful would not exist. While this process has moved humans to the heights of modern day “progress”, the cycle will continue, propelled and reinforced by those who value its importance and benefit directly from it.

Human history is based upon the survival and dominance of those who are prepared to make others obedient/subservient. Ideologies of equality, honesty and fairness will not grab hold unless those who tout these ideologies make themselves the dominant force in global affairs. However, in this struggle they themselves eventually will see the imperativeness of doing what is necessary to keep their own ideologies in place – maintaining dominance. Thus the cycle continues…

So whether you are for or against democracy, just remember that the same means of protectionism will be used in due time to maintain the prevalence of any other system that replaces it. Unless every human mind is completely rewired to erase any trace of a dominant nature, thereby making us a species of followers, the aforementioned replacement theory is inevitable.

Great Demos
08-24-05, - 04:28 PM
Good points Yorick. Jesus Himself said that the poor will always be with us -- this probably has to be, if not who is going to do the hard, dirty work? Who is going to work on the garbage trucks, to help keep the environment clean and free from disease?

Imagine that everyone were multi millionaires and you need a house to be built -- who are you going to get to do the job!?

casualobserver
08-25-05, - 08:44 AM
This whole post lacks a few key words. Freedom and civil rights. Look at the former USSR, now split into it's caucases who have embraced freedom and have implemented civil rights for its people. In some cases, those folks didn't have HUMAN rights, like what we see in the radical Islamic countries where women can't vote or be heard.

Democracy isn't perfect by it's very nature. Put millions of minds together who each have their own concerns and beliefs and there's no way you're going to have a unanimous consensus, but each person still gets their voice heard.

Its true that some use the democracy crusade to further their own agendas and that's unfortunate, but generally humans enjoy liberty and peace. There isn't another political system that guarantees that.

RockWell
08-25-05, - 11:23 AM
This whole post lacks a few key words. Freedom and civil rights. Look at the former USSR, now split into it's caucases who have embraced freedom and have implemented civil rights for its people. In some cases, those folks didn't have HUMAN rights, like what we see in the radical Islamic countries where women can't vote or be heard.

Democracy isn't perfect by it's very nature. Put millions of minds together who each have their own concerns and beliefs and there's no way you're going to have a unanimous consensus, but each person still gets their voice heard.

Its true that some use the democracy crusade to further their own agendas and that's unfortunate, but generally humans enjoy liberty and peace. There isn't another political system that guarantees that.
Democracy doesn't guarantee peace! :bored:

casualobserver
08-25-05, - 11:49 AM
Democracy doesn't guarantee peace! :bored:


Maybe I should have rephrased my comment as you are correct - there are no guarantees in this world. I should have said something like there isn't another political system that intends to create and promotes peace. As mentioned before, there are some who use democracy to further their own private agendas including war and covert operations as well as those that oppose democracy because they align it to Americanism.

As alluded before, you never get a consensus from millions of individual voters.