i wonder if the plp had not come this way


rory, as a black bahamian woman. i often wonder , if the country did not attain majority rule,or independence,if we would have had , a national insurance scheme. a college of the bahamas .and many other national instituitions. after 200 or more years of white rule .i often wonder, if the plp had not come this way,if there would be a middle class today. the plp in spite of it's many acheivements and failings is still one of the best things to happen for black bahamians and i daresay white bahamians as well. even though they would never admit it. but you know rory, opinions are like heads ,everybody has one. i can tell by most,if not all of your utterances,that you are one of the dullest, knives in the drawer.

I wonder if the corupt drug dealing PLP could have helped you with your grammer! As for national insurance that is a joke compared to 1st world countries such as the UK and Canada. And College of the Bahamas isnt worth 2cents in the real world. Whether it was good or not for black bahamians or chinese bahamians or white bahamians, the PLP ran this country into the ground, where it is still digging its hole even deeper to date. As for a middle class, all there is is poor and rich, no inbetween. and the rich are stealing from the poor such as bahamian owned banks.

Haitianboy, Thank you for your reply. I agree that perhaps we should open a thread on the psychological effects of slavery but in the mean time, as you suggest, we will stick to the topic of this thread.

There is one line that you wrote that keeps coming back to me with a great sadness, "..If you hear me crying it's because I am crying that we black people will never see eye to eye..." Why do you feel that way? Is there no hope? It is true that at this time there is much "in fighting" among black people but I have hope that it will give way, in time, to more cooperation. Why do you not? It may not be 100% but it is not among white people either Are you saying that the problem, at this time in history, is not a white-black problem but a black-black problem?

I wonder if the corupt drug dealing PLP could have helped you with your grammer! As for national insurance that is a joke compared to 1st world countries such as the UK and Canada. And College of the Bahamas isnt worth 2cents in the real world. Whether it was good or not for black bahamians or chinese bahamians or white bahamians, the PLP ran this country into the ground, where it is still digging its hole even deeper to date. As for a middle class, all there is is poor and rich, no inbetween. and the rich are stealing from the poor such as bahamian owned banks.

I dont know why I never saw this response. I wish to appologize, I have checked this forum a few times after I posted but never saw anything new from this thread.

I dont know if there is hope. Maybe there is but I dont see where it's coming from. I am saying there is a black on black problem and if that problem did not exist I beleive it would make the white on black problem easier to deal with and maybe nonexistant. I will use the latino community as an example. Granted alot of them have their differences and prejudices against each other, yet they do still move as one when it comes to facing the world. Latin people support each other in business and have many organizations that brings them together. They also know alot about each other's history so they know who they are dealing with and thus making them form a unit that helps them face any obstacles as they develop together.

Us blacks are very different. We do not move together as a unit. I think alot of it is we are not thought the history of our forefathers and what one meant to another. I use Haiti as an example for instance. We have a figure in our history called Boukman who was one of first deliverers. Boukaman started the anti-colonist movement in Haiti and his work is what led to the rebellian of slaves that eventually took the Island. Boukman's legacy is not thought in schools. I dont even recall being thought Boukman's story in Haiti. It's something that the Haitian people up in the mountains and the voodoo priests will teach about, not in the cities where they are considered civilized. The problem is Boukman was thought to be a maron and Europeans thought us well that marons are to be ashamed of, not spoken about or regarded as heros...

Boukman was born in Jamaica and left Jamaica in exhile fashion to come to Haiti and from Haiti he led the marons in the mountains and came up with schemes to overthrow the slave owners...In Haiti he practiced voodoo and had the marons beleive they were invincible when they were under the spirit. That is how his army of unarmed Africans gathered the courage to fight against the colonists. That is what started our revolution. He attempted to poison all the slave owners at one time during an ambition plan to attack them after they were weaken and almost succeeded...had this plan went through, Haiti would of had it's indepence even before the U.S. The moral of the story is, Haiti may not even have been the example of how slavery doesnt' have to exist back then had it not been for a Jamaican...so why today even though we dont speak the same native language or wave the same flag, we would feel we are different...we are the same, history thought us that...

Now if we would teach one another about our histories, and teach our young about what one Island meant to the other before we were truly devided, we'd then understand why it's pointless to fight each other. Then perhaps we'd be able to see eye to eye and truly beleive that we are all the same. Noone is better then the next, we have to stop thinking that, no matter what one situation is in contrast to the other, we are all from the same place or are fighting the same battles...we may not wave the same flags, but like you said, we still are on the same team...once that is understood then we can pull our resources and work together to benefit each other...as long as we are mentally seperated, no movement can be made and we'll always try to face the world alone...

No apology necessary, Hatianboy, we all miss posts from time to time.

Thank you for your interesting reply. When you wrote, "I think a lot of it is we are not taught the history of our forefathers and what one meant to another." you put your finger on the heart of the problem. African people - in the west - have no mythology. A mythology is a collection of stories, true or not, that informs, directs, and molds a person or society. If, what I call Western Africans, have a mythology it is a negative one. Slavery! It pulls them back again and again to that negative event and you can't build on a negative myth. (PS I say again, a myth is not a lie.) Your story about Boukman is a classic example of a good myth. It is a story that needs telling, often.

As a western European person, I have a mythological system. The stories of King Arthur, Robin Hood, Rob Roy, The Fables of Aesop (a 6th Century Greek.) the "heros" of the British Empire, just to name a few. Of course the Bible is a big one also. All of these stories I learned at my Mother knee. They shaped my history and my perception of life and my place in it. What does the Western African have? Very little! Do you remember when the book "Roots" came out? Black people swarmed to it like bees to honey because it spoke to them. It gave them some traditions and hope!

What needs to be done is to find the stories (and the religions) of Africa and teach them to the youth, or build new ones. Dr. King's life is a good place to start. The holiday, Kwanzaa, is another. I don't know if you live in the Bahamas but here we are trying to form a National Heros Day. This is good! Bahamians are starting to build a mythology. One of the great myths of any society is the strong, noble, fearless man (and woman.) They are the examples for the youth. You MUST have them - you must!

The only problem with mythologies is that they tend to clash. Black myth clashes with white. White with Far Eastern myth and so one. We need to have our myths but at the same time respect, and understand, the other man's myth. We especially have to respect the other race's myths! This is to small a world to think that there is only one way.

Has what I've written struck any cord with you? (Or anyone else reading this?) Let me know! (all of you, please.)

Has what I've written struck any cord with you? (Or anyone else reading this?) Let me know! (all of you, please.)

Sorry again, I noticed when I replied to you I actually quoted the wrong person....but yes what you wrote struck a cord big big time...you are absolutely correct sir. Alot of us know this, we say we have no history because all we are thought are George Washington is our hero etc...what you are saying is on point because even in prison(i have never been to prison but have plenty of friends there), the more a black man studies the history of blacks and Africa, the more peacefull of a person he becomes...it's like we are in peace with ourselves when we start to learn who we really are...Slavery is like a big fog, we just cant see passed it and the reason being is we dont know where we are from...Africa is large and has many stories to tell, I cant just pick one place and listen, it would of been better if I had an idea what part my ancestry came from but by now that is probably impossible since there's been so many mixes that led to me...

As for the Bahamas, I have never even been there...I just found this site in google after putting on a search for Haitian flag...I am glad now I did though...

If you will have a hero day in the Bahamas, please be sure to include the Haitian revolutionary figures...it will work to your advantage in two ways, 1. it will let the Haitian people that are in the Bahamas know their history counts and they should not be ashamed of their Haitian heritage and pride ever....2. those that cant stand us and hate us for being in the Bahamas will have a chance to read into our past and see who we are and what we are made of, and only then can some of them draw a better conclusion of us...

if you need stories, trust me I have them and they are just as good as Boukman...

Good to hear from you Hatianboy.
Let me share with you a few points. You wrote, "Africa is large and has many stories to tell," I can't just pick one place and listen." Why not? Religion is my subject and it is vast! The best thing to do is to start somewhere. There is an African saying dealing with handling large problems. Here it is "How do you eat an Elephant?" The answer. "One bit at a time!"

You went on to say, " it would of been better if I had an idea what part my ancestry came from but by now that is probably impossible since there's been so many mixes that led to me..." The truth is that most people, black or white do not "exactly" know where their ancestry came from. But what you do know is that you are black and from Africa. Have you every been to Africa? I have heard of people who have and they have made a connection. It might not be a physical connection with a tribe that can be proven but it is, if you like, a spiritual adoption. People adopt children all the time! Why can't we adopt a tribe? Many people have!

I was impressed by what you said about Blacks in prison coming to peace by studying Black and African history. To you, (I am sure you do study) and any other black persons who maybe reading along with us. Don't wait for prison! Start your studies now! Because, in a way, you are imprisoned already and knowledge breaks down prison walls. I would also encourage white people to read it too. You might learn something!

Now to the bad news! You said, "If you will have a hero day in the Bahamas, please be sure to include the Haitian revolutionary figures..." I wish we could! If I was in charge, I would push for it. But right now the feelings, in some quarters, are running very much against the Haitian. I can't see it happening - its that in-fighting you were talking about. It will have to wait for the future when we are enlightened. That will happen if we wish, and work for it to be.

P.S. I would love to hear more of your stories, as I am sure would others.

Good to hear from you Hatianboy.
You went on to say, " it would of been better if I had an idea what part my ancestry came from but by now that is probably impossible since there's been so many mixes that led to me..." The truth is that most people, black or white do not "exactly" know where their ancestry came from. But what you do know is that you are black and from Africa. Have you every been to Africa?

CG the point you made is similar but not at all the same...see alot of people including Europeans do not know their exact ancestry but they do have an idea of the countries which their foreparents originated from...more they have ways today of tracking your ancestors...since I beleive most Europeans retained their family names, chances are you can pinpoint exactly where your greatest grandparents were born...saying I am from Africa is just not enough for me...Africa is not a country...I would like to know where my blood was 10 generations ago...was my 11th grandfather a goat herder? what part did he play in his tribe? where was his tribe? yes in Africa I can get a spiritual connection, but it still wont answer 100 of my questions...my last name today is Jacques...I have never been to France yet I have a french name...I want to know who was my first relative to touch the West Indies (I prefer to call it Far West Africa)...who was the first and what was his real name?? but I do understand your point and where you are coming from...


INow to the bad news! You said, "If you will have a hero day in the Bahamas, please be sure to include the Haitian revolutionary figures..." I wish we could! If I was in charge, I would push for it. But right now the feelings, in some quarters, are running very much against the Haitian. I can't see it happening - its that in-fighting you were talking about. It will have to wait for the future when we are enlightened. That will happen if we wish, and work for it to be.

P.S. I would love to hear more of your stories, as I am sure would others.

That saddens me CG...I beleive the hero is the one that dont swim with the rest of the school...he is the one that spoke out against the group...if such an event is occuring in the Bahamas and we both know there are alot of people of Haitian descent why would it not be suggested? even if you know they will not go for it...so you are telling me then these talks we are having now are pointless because even with you they can not change a thing?...be my hero CG...if you truly respect the things on I put on here I beg you be my hero and at least make them aware that they have a member who cares about people...these Haitians that many Bahamians are against are still people and in years will be Bahamian-Haitians and they deserve the right to have their heros mentioned...please dont do to us what the U.S. has done to blacks...we are not inferior contrarery to what the majority think or say...we are humans just like the next guy and all have a heart that pumps love just the same...do not deprive them of their freedom to love themselves and their heritage...support them even if you are one of many...by you speaking out can cause next year one or two more speak out before you know it, hate is put aside and love takes it's place...be a pioneer...if you try and fail, then it was all worth it because you can hold your head up high and know you did something honorable...be a hero..

I will post more stories...for now, check out this story...this may or may not open your eyes a little wider to the comment you made earlier about the Haitian goverment failed...yes our government failed us in many places, but they did and are still getting help in failing...

http://blackcommentator.com/56/56_reprint_haiti.html

Hatianboy. I feel your frustration about not knowing your ancestry. However, the fact is, you might never know but you have to come to peace with that. Many of the things you want to know cannot be answered. If, and I say IF, the Haitian government, or historical society has some records of the slave sales, you MIGHT find something but that is very much in doubt. The truth is you might never have your questions answered. But life goes on and you cannot allow yourself to become "ham-strung" by the fact that you will never know. You are who you are NOW. That must carry some weight?

You wrote, about the Hero's day and the unlikelihood of Haitians being included, " ....so you are telling me then these talks we are having now are pointless because even with you they cannot change a thing?" No, they are not pointless! And they might indeed change something, or someone.(You informed some of my thinking! I hope I have done the same for you.) Dialogue is important. We cannot fix the world's problems in one day with a few clicks on our key boards - the problems are too big. But we can start. There are others who are reading these posts - people in the Bahamas and the world. Who knows what heart we may touch? Things many seem pointless now but things can change, things have changed. At one time it was pointless to think that slaves could be free - yet men worked for it and got it. At one time it was pointless to think that Bahamians could achieve self rule - yet men worked for it and got it.

I ended my last post by saying, "It will have to wait for the future when we are enlightened. That will happen if we wish, and work for it to be." At the moment we, most Bahamians, most people of the world, are not enlightened on the subject of the brotherhood of all beings. I called into the local radio talk show and suggested that we not only have a Bahamian Hero's Day but a World Hero's day. There are many people whose lives are a great example to the human family. Alas, no one was interested.

Enlightenment means to awake to the understanding of our true nature. (PS. I am a Buddhist, we strive for that enlightenment.) Our true nature is the Buddha-Nature and when we awake to it we then can see that we are all brothers no matter what our situation! I strive for that, I teach other to strive for it also. There is another Buddhist saying, "We strive for world peace and understanding knowing that things are just the way they are! Be not attached to the out come - just do your work." The important thing is to open one heart at a time, starting with our own.

You and I maybe long dead in our graves before the world "gets it!" But get it, it will if we, and others, do not fail to keep the "message" in front of the world.

(P.S. If anyone else is reading this give us your views or simply say. "I am listening!" I need to know it is not just Hatianboy and I here!)

Trust me CG,

Allot of folks are watching this thread. In-fact; I met someone today who was talking about this discussion adn points made by Hatianboy.

Keep it up :)

Trust me CG,

Allot of folks are watching this thread. In-fact; I met someone today who was talking about this discussion adn points made by Hatianboy.

Keep it up :)


This is good news, Delroy. Thank you!

See Haitianboy, you are touching hearts!

Trust me CG,

Allot of folks are watching this thread. In-fact; I met someone today who was talking about this discussion adn points made by Hatianboy.

Keep it up :)

wow are you serious?? so what are your thoughts?? what was that person's thoughts?? do you guys understand the situation with Haiti and why this has come to be? do you understand that no matter our nationalities or religions or color we are all in the same gang, all brothers and these unfortunate situations should not lead to discrimination? imagine how my people feel over there in the Bahamas...imagine how a father feels leaving his family or even if he has his family with him...imagine having to put everything his pride everything aside and on top of it having to be tormented...let's be righteous...we are all human and we all have hearts...instead of hating, try loving...trust me, loving is wonderful...my heart cries for all, not just Haitians or blacks...all...I use to live in Brooklyn in a West Indian community and I loved everyone didn't matter to me...everyone there loved everyone or at least respected all the same...in East Flatbush there's no Haitians, or Jamaicans, or Trinidadian, Guyanese, Bahamians...everyone is West Indian...that's why the largest parade in Brooklyn is the West Indian parade...I took some beautiful pictures at the parade of this wonderful looking Bahamian lady that struck me...i didn't even see her flag until I looked at the picture...all that mattered to me was one of my beautiful sisters on the parkway looking as good as god made her...that's all I cared about...how can we discriminate against god's own creations??? how can you hate one of your brothers??...I dont understand it...

CG-Honestly that was the best advice and peice of writting I have ever read...you definitely touched something with that one...I understand you saying that I have to learn to accept the fact that I will never know my ancestors...there are things in life that haunts you and you become a better person once you move passed them...my ancestors will always be with me...I am speaking their words but I can only face the future and what awaits me if I dont let these thoughts haunt me and learn from the past...thanks again for that...

as for the rest of what you wrote, I hear you...I hope there are more people reading this as well...I know there will be change...I hope one day we can move passed talking about black in-fighting, I hope to see it being a thing of the past...if we can get passed that, I beleive only then can one race accept the next...we need to get passed our differences and then we can truly face the future together...sometimes I think we are being tested and once we show we can work together this world will be rid of hate, diseases and all other things killing mankind...maybe not in my lifetime, but I am willing to do whatever it takes to get the ball rolling...

Thanks again CG...you helped me see alot of things...and I would like to truly thank my Bahamian people allowing me to come here and post and read and share my stories...I love you all truly with every cell in my body...please learn to love your brothers and sisters even if they speak a foreign language, you never know what you and they can accomplish together as one...

P.S. I would like to know more about your religion if you dont mind sharing...
I will post another story soon on Haitian revolution

Haitianboy, you do me great honor Sir, far more than I deserve.

May the God you worship bring us peace, but most importantly may he give us the eyes to see it when it comes, as come it will.

you asked me to tell you something about Buddhism.
I will be opening a new thread under the Bahamas Religions section. Look for it. I will get it there as soon as I can.
Thanks for asking!

I don't know about u, but I have a problem with the amount of Haitian flags I see popping up on cars. In the midst of my celebrating my independence, while I am proudly displaying my flag, the Hatians are displaying theirs, what is that all about?:mad: It is an insult to me, if they are proud of their country then they should go home and put up their flag. How dare u come in my land and put up your flag. Wake up my people. This is seriuos times, this may seem like a small thing but is only the beginning.
Today it is the flag, tomorrow it will be streets named after them, they will be running for public offce soon, and then in the very near future peas and rice, and names like Cox and Bain will be replaced by Haitian names and dishes. They have already started to open businesses and guess who they employ?
This up and coming generation is in for the fight of their lives, we must fight to keep this land for our children.
THIS LAND IS MY LAND. Sail away my friends :bahamas::sailing::hot: