But let me ask you a question. If these people were so happy to get independence why did they flee to their former "oppressors" shores? Why not stay at home and make their country work? Could it be that independence was not all it was cracked up to be?


Rory summed it up well (above). But instead, lets not only look at the Bahamians in the UK...lets look at the Jamaicans, the Trinidadians, the St. Lucians, the Indians, Africans, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans...and the list goes on!!! You know where I'm going with this! The British are also up in arms about the amount of immigrants coming to this country - and even as I speak they are discussing the new 'British Citizenship Test' on the radio! My point: immigrants are usually unwelcomed into a host country. But it does not follow, that in an immigrant's mind, it is worth it to stay in their own countries (simply to avoid this backlash). Immigrants will go where there are opportunities. Especially if those opportunities happen to be in the territory of a former colonial power. Think about it. If you were Jamaican and had the right of abode in the UK, would you stay in crime-ridden Jamiaca, where you could hardly make ends meet and might be shot on the bus? OR would you pack up, and bring you trailer load of chirren to 'da mudder land', where, you might not be fully accepted, and might be consider a drug mule - but at least, you can have a better life, and your children can have a fair shot at getting a good education, etc?

at the end of the day, it might be tough settling in a new country, but the fact is, many do it, and they do so, because in the long run ( and generally), the opportunities present in a developed country, will be more than 'at home'...'home' being a place normally left destitute after colonialism!

Rory summed it up well (above). But instead, lets not only look at the Bahamians in the UK...lets look at the Jamaicans, the Trinidadians, the St. Lucians, the Indians, Africans, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans...and the list goes on!!! You know where I'm going with this! The British are also up in arms about the amount of immigrants coming to this country - and even as I speak they are discussing the new 'British Citizenship Test' on the radio! My point: immigrants are usually unwelcomed into a host country. But it does not follow, that in an immigrant's mind, it is worth it to stay in their own countries (simply to avoid this backlash). Immigrants will go where there are opportunities. Especially if those opportunities happen to be in the territory of a former colonial power. Think about it. If you were Jamaican and had the right of abode in the UK, would you stay in crime-ridden Jamiaca, where you could hardly make ends meet and might be shot on the bus? OR would you pack up, and bring you trailer load of chirren to 'da mudder land', where, you might not be fully accepted, and might be consider a drug mule - but at least, you can have a better life, and your children can have a fair shot at getting a good education, etc?
at the end of the day, it might be tough settling in a new country, but the fact is, many do it, and they do so, because in the long run ( and generally), the opportunities present in a developed country, will be more than 'at home'...'home' being a place normally left destitute after colonialism!

I can understand wanting a better life but surely it is the job of the patriot to make home better first. Particularly if the person was an agitator for independence.

On the matter of countries being left destitute after colonialism. Some were, others became destitute after independence, Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) springs to mind as does the Jewel of Africa, Nigeria - perhaps not destitute but in chaos. Then there is Uganda - the list goes on and on. We in the Bahamas are one of the few exceptions.

I am not an advocate for Colonialism but it happened and I think that independence was "rushed" in many Colonies. When the Europeans pulled out there was a vacuum that was filled, not by good men and women but by the "War Lord" types. Independence should have been a slow thing, allowing time for a rebuilding of the country. But it seems the locals had no patience for that and rushed head-long into their own destruction. They have only themselves to blame. I think that is why some folks realized life would be impossible, so they left. They should have stayed and fought the good fight on their home ground. Thank goodness, we in the Bahamas, did not rush it and that good men and women held their ground.

I am not saying that I am good, but I could have left as so many White and Black folks did. My lot is with the Bahamas, come hell or high water. (And at the time Hell was predicted for the Bahamas with Black rule.)

These riots need to cease. Its seems that France will be in utter ruins if this thing wages on. It makes no sense to have a devestated and decamated country, at the same time expecting the government to do something about your wants and needs. These looters are doing more harm than good. They are burning schools, hospitals, (the very same places thay frequent and their kids frequent). I can understand trying to get a point across, but this is a bit much.

These riots need to cease. Its seems that France will be in utter ruins if this thing wages on. It makes no sense to have a devestated and decamated country, at the same time expecting the government to do something about your wants and needs. These looters are doing more harm than good. They are burning schools, hospitals, (the very same places thay frequent and their kids frequent). I can understand trying to get a point across, but this is a bit much.

And after the rioters destroy France (if that was at all possible) they would start crying to be let into other countries because they were homeless!

Reminds me of the story of the kid who killed both his parents they begged leniency from the courts because he was a orphan! :) :) :)

I think the Jewish word is "Hutzpa!"

and as my (arab) french used to say: 'we're not french french' but we're not supposed to be arab either! so what the hell are we? va te faire enculer putain! espece de merde!

I just noticed this part...my gawd...such strong language...didn't know you had it in you. :jawdroop:

Rory summed it up well (above). But instead, lets not only look at the Bahamians in the UK...lets look at the Jamaicans, the Trinidadians, the St. Lucians, the Indians, Africans, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans...and the list goes on!!! You know where I'm going with this! The British are also up in arms about the amount of immigrants coming to this country - and even as I speak they are discussing the new 'British Citizenship Test' on the radio! My point: immigrants are usually unwelcomed into a host country. But it does not follow, that in an immigrant's mind, it is worth it to stay in their own countries (simply to avoid this backlash). Immigrants will go where there are opportunities. Especially if those opportunities happen to be in the territory of a former colonial power. Think about it. If you were Jamaican and had the right of abode in the UK, would you stay in crime-ridden Jamiaca, where you could hardly make ends meet and might be shot on the bus? OR would you pack up, and bring you trailer load of chirren to 'da mudder land', where, you might not be fully accepted, and might be consider a drug mule - but at least, you can have a better life, and your children can have a fair shot at getting a good education, etc?
at the end of the day, it might be tough settling in a new country, but the fact is, many do it, and they do so, because in the long run ( and generally), the opportunities present in a developed country, will be more than 'at home'...'home' being a place normally left destitute after colonialism!

You know, reading a post like this is refreshing. It shows that you truly have an understanding of the situation and can empathize with the plight of the immigrant. Keep up the posting Abiskan. Lets try to add more liberalism to this place.

I just noticed this part...my gawd...such strong language...didn't know you had it in you. :jawdroop:

hehehe i learned from the best! :tup:

I would hope that you realize that this country has already exceeded its limit of "asylum seekers". The Bahamas is now at risk of its culture being swallowed whole by an immigrant population.


:what: how did i miss THIS??? you must be JOKING??? you call TWO successful asylum applications per YEAR 'exceeding our limit'???? a few years we had NONE. and to my knowledge we have never granted more than 10 in a year! :screw:

Anyone ever told you, that :sparky: your SILLY


well CG, I totally agree with you here...is duty IS on the immigrant to assimilate! and im alot like you. i also love meeting people from new and different backgrounds. imagine how the world would be different if we all had that type of thirst to learn about/from others!

Anyone ever told you, that :sparky: your SILLY

has anyone ever told you when you join YOU and ARE the result is YOU'RE and not YOUR, as you wrote it.:duh:

has anyone ever told you when you join YOU and ARE the result is YOU'RE and not YOUR, as you wrote it.:duh:
LFMAO.. So AMA where did you steal this *Sense Of Humor* from Today? :cheers:

LFMAO.. So AMA where did you steal this *Sense Of Humor* from Today? :cheers:

;)

A little of topic but none the less I thought this might interest the board its from an American perspective but we were in the dark just as much as them when it came to france and its racial tension issues.
A Few Things to Ponder, France, Hip Hop and the Riots
By Davey D

The other night I appeared on Chuck D’s and Gia’na Garel’s ‘On Then Real’ Show where we spoke about media and media perceptions as it relates to Hip Hop. We also spoke at length about the riots/ rebellion over in France. There’s a very interesting connection that has been all but overlooked by many of us Hip Hop folks here in the US. But that’s to be expected. Keeping us dumb, blind and uninformed is not by accident it’s deliberate.

To better understand what I mean by this lets backtrack. For years Chuck has been on me to get out the country and travel. He’s been emphatic about pointing out how we as Americans are constantly being short changed and left in the dark when it comes to understanding what goes on globally. To help make his point, he would on occasion cite Malcolm X and his strategy to make our struggle as Black folks be seen and judged on the international stage as opposed to domestically. He would stress the point that by knowing what is going on globally will completely change your outlook on life. In many ways it will humble you as well as help give keen insight into the political landscape of America.

When Chuck would utter these things they didn’t really hit home until the tragedies of 9-11 took place. I recall interviewing Dilated People’s several weeks after that tragic day and talking to them about their song ‘War’. At the time I thought they had recorded the track after 9-11 and was surprised when lead rapper Raka Iriscience explained that they did the song a couple of months before and that he was inspired to do the song after reflecting upon the climate of and sentiments he was picking up from overseas. He went on to explain that as an artist he could sense the discontent people were having with the US and with their own oppressive governments. Raka concluded that when 9-11 happened, he wasn’t as shocked as most, because he saw things brewing.

What I thought may have been an isolated observation ceased to be that when a couple of weeks later I sat down with De La Soul and talked to them about their new album ‘AOI Bionix’. On that album they have this incredible song called ‘Held Down’ featuring Cee-lo of the Goodie Mob. Its a song about stress, strife and religion. Here you hear Posdanus utters this eerie verse:

So quick to place blame.. and deny the shame we bring upon ourselves
So many names held accountable for my own account
When a large amount was weight - that I made and shaped
When I climbed I found
It was hard to find others around to point my fingers at
Which made me realize the truth
The biggest supressor could be your own ego lookin for an excuse
to plant roots, in a field of self-sorrow
to sprout and follow the first thing you feel
Nourishes your hunger to be respected, it gets hectic
And when I'm watchin the news, and my daughter walks in
and choose to ask, "Why were all those people on the floor
sleepin, covered in red?" I told her
that they were lookin for God, but found religion instead

As was the case with Dilated Peoples, I asked Pos if they did the song after 9-11 and he explained things in the same manner as Raka. First, he noted the group recorded the cut before that fateful day. Next, he talked about how traveling around the world allowed him to tap into the overall vibe and literally read the global tea leaves. Religious oppresion and seeds of war and discontent were reflected in the song. I haven’t spoken to Pos or Raka since the riots have kicked off in France, but because I know they travel so much, I am sure that they are not shocked that this is all going down.

For most of us who live here in the US and don’t get a chance to travel, our first glimpse of stresses of France’s ghetto life came via rap mogul Damon Dash. Some of you may recall what happened to him several months back when it was widely reported how Dame got jumped and got badly beat while rolling with a film crew in Paris. Like the riots of today, the incident caught a lot of us off guard.. I recall hearing folks being incredulous and asking questions like; ‘Since when did Paris have thugs and ghettoes?’ ‘How did that happen’? We acted like the only place there were hoods was in the US. We acted like the only place where you will find civil unrest is here in America.

Fast forward to the last two weeks of riots in France and many Americans are shocked and surprised. How could a city like Paris that is home to the Eiffel Tower and often considered the fashion capitol of the world be imploding? Why would anyone in their right mind want to riot in romantic France? In a place that is so free and liberal, how could anyone be complaining that they are so disenfranchised and discriminated against to the point of sparking riots in 300 cities? These are some of the questions many of us here in the states have been asking.

Now, I can understand the average American being blind to the facts, after all we have long had narrow, distorted vision about world events. However, for those of us involved in Hip Hop, we need to all take a long hard look as to how and why we got caught off guard. Rappers out of France have been rapping about their political and social hardships for years. But should we be surprised?

Back in 1988 during the New Music Seminar in New York, Chuck D made a profound statement about Hip Hop that has been quoted all around the world. He described Hip Hop as Black people’s CNN. He was specifically referring to the fact that Hip Hop at that time had connected people from all sorts of ghettos and communities around the US and given those who were voiceless and often overlooked a critical platform. He noted how people in New York had no idea that there were ghettos and serious gang problems in Los Angeles until NWA came along. He was also noting how the Afrocentric ‘Fight the Power’ Movement of that time was popularized because of rappers spreading the word via Hip Hop.

Many would argue that Chuck’s statements at the time were taken to heart by folks all around the world who then embraced Hip Hop with a distinct sense of political purpose. This has certainly been the case for in France, the world’s second largest Hip Hop market and perhaps soon to be the world’s biggest Hip Hop market.

On a side note when you start to travel around and ask younger generations about their Hip Hop influences you will often hear folks site Northern or Southern France. Case in point, last month while in Beirut I interviewed some artists out of Morocco who explained that they were currently experiencing a Civil Rap War that was eerily similar to the coastal war of words we had back in ’95. They explained that rappers who reside in cities like Casablanca are battling artists in Marrakesh. The roots of this battle trace back to the rap battles between Northern and Southern French rappers and the crews IAM (Invasion From Mars) and NTM (**** Your Mother).

I also ran into other Hip Hop artists from Beirut and other parts of the Middle East and Northern Africa who pointed to the ghettoes throughout France as their Hip Hop Mecca and not New York like many of us here in the states would automatically believe.

It’s important that we keep all this in mind so we can understand two things. First, we are seriously being shortchanged. Today’s media does in inadequate job of providing us a more well rounded perspective on places overseas. Rarely do we get a chance to hear from those who are disenfranchised and voiceless in other countries. By the time we do hear about these people, it usually comes in the backdrop of major upheaval like the riots in France and sadly it gets filtered by the Bill O’Reilly types who try their best to oversimplify and malign the situation at hand and the people.

The second thing we need to keep in mind is that this is happening in reverse. Our media imports narrow stereotypical versions of us as Black folks and Hip Hop in general. I was surprised to hear how astonished people overseas who I encountered were with respect to Kanye West’s remarks about George Bush not caring about Black people. For many, this was their first glimpse into our collective hardships. They had been fed a steady diet of conservative voices like; Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice alongside the over the top video images of rich ghetto fabulous rap stars throwing money at the camera and stunting to the fullest. Hence hearing Kanye say there were problems alongside the horrifying images of the Katrina aftermath sent shockwaves around the world.

Once upon a time Hip Hop broke down those media walls which like to sanitize certain realities. But now that Hip Hop is big business the images of its biggest and brightest stars are controlled even when they attempt to show their hardships.

One of the most glaring examples of this is the two anti-war anti-bush records put out by west coast producer Fredwreck. At the start of the Iraq War, Fred gathered up an all-star cast of LA’s rap community including WC, Daz, Nate Dogg, Defari, Dilated peoples and many more to do a song lambasting our decision to go to war in Iraq.

The track which was called Down with US, was given away for free at http://www.fredwreck.com with the understanding that many within LA’s rap community wanted to make their star powered voices known on a political tip and not just for advocating partying and street life. WC was quoted as saying that at any given time in LA you could turn on the radio and hear one of the artists who participated in the song on the radio talking about various topics, but when it came to rapping about why the hood shouldn’t sign up for the war effort, there was a complete media black out.

Fredwreck meant similar fate last year when he assembled an even bigger all-star cast to do a song about the upcoming election. If you can believe it no radio station in the country would play the song ‘Mr. President’ which featured The Westside Connection, Cypress Hill and KRS to name a few. This omission meant that after the election people in other lands were left to believe that everyone including the Hip Hop community were in complete agreement and support of Bush being re-elected and his war policies.

If this is happening on this side to us, we have to question what is happening on the otherside? Are we getting the full story as to why folks are rioting in France? And can we find the answers in today’s modern day ‘griots’ which are the rappers.?

s u m m a r i z e :rolleyes:

s u m m a r i z e :rolleyes:

n.o