I think that FNM's (and so like-minded people) are a bit too optimistic of Mr. Ingraham's abilities. The man is politically wounded, with a host of topics and discussions on which he is more than vulnerable. If I were them, I would not be as enthusiatic.
On another note, Hubert Ingraham's election effectively invalidated an entire generation of aspiring leaders; the results of which will be felt for a long time.


Politically wounded and vulnerable with a host of topics and discussions!?! On what basis do you render this information?

Secondly, you think the FNM's are too optimistic of Mr. Ingraham abilities and if you were them you would not be so enthusiastic!?! If you were them how could you do otherwise?

You don't have to answer as these were just an observations resulting in rhetorical questions.

Marvin R. Z. Gibson

My basis is memory!

Politically wounded and vulnerable with a host of topics and discussions!?! On what basis do you render this information?
Secondly, you think the FNM's are too optimistic of Mr. Ingraham abilities and if you were them you would not be so enthusiastic!?! If you were them how could you do otherwise?
You don't have to answer as these were just an observations resulting in rhetorical questions.
Marvin R. Z. Gibson


The word 'an' is by definition singular and NOT plural prowler! READ your posts before you submit them.

You are wrong. The foundation of the Bahamian society was the Slave Plantation Society; ask any architect / engineer and they'll tell you the most important (and often most costly) part of a building is its FOUNDATION! The Plantation Society (remember: modern Bahamas' foundation) was erected to benefit one group off of the labour of another group. The group that benefited were of course slave owners and were of course white. The group that played the role of chattel were of course slaves and were of course black. The relevance of this fact of Plantation life is simply that it aximomatically put one group above / over another and that this was systematically enforced.
Why is all this relevant today? Because it helps to explain the sources of varying elements, ideas, practises, etc. of today's society. For example, how we got here, why is Junkanoo a part of culture etc...
My point is simply that the history of a thing is very relevant to the proper study of that thing, whatever it may be. Its genesis is critically important to understanding it, so please don't say it has nothing to do with us now.



I stand by what I said, but you are also welcome to your personal "opinion".

I think that FNM's (and so like-minded people) are a bit too optimistic of Mr. Ingraham's abilities. The man is politically wounded, with a host of topics and discussions on which he is more than vulnerable. If I were them, I would not be as enthusiatic.
On another note, Hubert Ingraham's election effectively invalidated an entire generation of aspiring leaders; the results of which will be felt for a long time.This is so true,but like other subjects in this country NOBODY wants to discuss it.I asked a close friend & die hard FNM what does this say about their abilities as future leaders of this country.You mean to tell (I'll use him for eg.) A man with a masters degree and who has worked outside of the Bahamas and all his counterparts (35-45) dn't feel that they are competent enough to compete to lead this country, that they had to go and get a night school lawyer (pun) out of the grave to led them into an election.

Im not condoning the slavery of way way way back then, but it has nothing to do with us now, the present, white or black. There are new problems that need dealing with.
[/QUOTE]


I cannot believe that you completely missed my point. The effects of slavery have everything to do with the problems we are facing today!!!
Rory you really need to study the topic of Slavery and its effects.
When you train someone to believe that they are inferior. They are more willing to kill each other over nothing. They sub-consciously believe that all Blacks are lees valuable than whites and is therefore expendable. Slaves were forbidden to marry and separated from their tribes. Today single parents head many homes. A tradition passed down from slavery. Blacks were not allowed to own land. To this very day the majority of land is still owned by Whites and hence all the economic power.

Rory try and add 1 & 1 together. Slavery and the problems of Blacks in the western worlds TODAY are completely connected. Read Connect and understand!

man i dont know what you are trying to say, anyway i got work to do so i can eat.

Im not condoning the slavery of way way way back then, but it has nothing to do with us now, the present, white or black. There are new problems that need dealing with.

I cannot believe that you completely missed my point. The effects of slavery have everything to do with the problems we are facing today!!!
Rory you really need to study the topic of Slavery and its effects.
When you train someone to believe that they are inferior. They are more willing to kill each other over nothing. They sub-consciously believe that all Blacks are lees valuable than whites and is therefore expendable. Slaves were forbidden to marry and separated from their tribes. Today single parents head many homes. A tradition passed down from slavery. Blacks were not allowed to own land. To this very day the majority of land is still wned by Whites and hence all the economic power.
Rory try and add 1 & 1 together. Slavery and the problems of Blacks in the western worlds TODAY are completely connected. Read Connect and understand!
[/QUOTE]


Hey Spirit, I een no expert and can't say decisively that you are incorrect, but something really does not seem to be clicking here! This sounds like a perfect "excuse" for us blacks to continue living in squalor and poverty. If some of us make it to the top, or make something of ourselves and make a
decent, prosperous living, I don't see any reason why most of us can't do likewise!

The Good book says "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he". And if we would be positive, tough it out and grow up and "Grip the world", there should be no reason why we can't achieve in this life what we want to achieve! There are persons right here who were born and grew in dire poverty and yet still achieved success. It is NOT easy and it definitely cannot be achieved by a negative mind set!

It is said at one time there were many whites who were slaves also, but I have never heard of many of them letting that long-ago situation keep them back!

This is so true,but like other subjects in this country NOBODY wants to discuss it.I asked a close friend & die hard FNM what does this say about their abilities as future leaders of this country.You mean to tell (I'll use him for eg.) A man with a masters degree and who has worked outside of the Bahamas and all his counterparts (35-45) dn't feel that they are competent enough to compete to lead this country, that they had to go and get a night school lawyer (pun) out of the grave to led them into an election.

Degrees are overated; universities are in it for the money these days so they will accept anyone and graduate anything. We should have more regard for those who are self taught. It demonstrates discipline.We also need to judge people by their proven abilities and demonstrated skills..Mr. Ingraham stands out and that is why they brought him back, in addition to his charisma and work ethic.Allyuh need to stop being jealous and stop hatin'.

On another note, Hubert Ingraham's election effectively invalidated an entire generation of aspiring leaders; the results of which will be felt for a long time.

Not true.

In both parties no young person has dared to effectively step up and fight fire with fire. This is why the older politicians are winning the war in taking the top positions.

Politics is a dirty game and Turnquest didn't have what it takes. If he did, he would have been able to fend off Ingraham quite easily. To put it plainly, the stronger man won.

In politics there is no line of succession or automatic expectation of replacement by younger persons. The leadership must be taken by force. Stronger leaders will always dominate any political field. We have a bunch of younger politicians who are too busy kissing the behinds of those who are older, instead of creating their own loyalties and planning their own takeovers.

Our "younger" generation is too soft and we do not know what true ruthlessness is. Until that changes, expect to see the same faces dominating politics - And rightly so.

Not true.
In both parties no young person has dared to effectively step up and fight fire with fire. This is why the older politicians are winning the war in taking the top positions.
Politics is a dirty game and Turnquest didn't have what it takes. If he did, he would have been able to fend off Ingraham quite easily. To put it plainly, the stronger man won.
In politics there is no line of succession or automatic expectation of replacement by younger persons. The leadership must be taken by force. Stronger leaders will always dominate any political field. We have a bunch of younger politicians who are too busy kissing the behinds of those who are older, instead of creating their own loyalties and planning their own takeovers.
Our "younger" generation is too soft and we do not know what true ruthlessness is. Until that changes, expect to see the same faces dominating politics - And rightly so.

bey yorick lets go form one party! you have to put me in charge of immigration though..;)

I support young leadership, but at this point Mr Ingraham is the best man for the job. Tommy T is a great person and all of us can learn a lesson from him because through all the media and the talk and the public embarrassment he stood firm and he endured to the end. We can learn from this example Never give up and always fight for what you believe in! I would also like to say that FNM's from near and far the one's that did'nt vote last election and the one's who voted against the party are back and we are UNITED AND READY TO SERVE MORE NOW THAN EVA!
[B]:bahamas: :bahamas:
'Wen wind Blow Fire Spread'

I cannot believe that you completely missed my point. The effects of slavery have everything to do with the problems we are facing today!!!
Rory you really need to study the topic of Slavery and its effects.
When you train someone to believe that they are inferior. They are more willing to kill each other over nothing. They sub-consciously believe that all Blacks are lees valuable than whites and is therefore expendable. Slaves were forbidden to marry and separated from their tribes. Today single parents head many homes. A tradition passed down from slavery. Blacks were not allowed to own land. To this very day the majority of land is still wned by Whites and hence all the economic power.
Rory try and add 1 & 1 together. Slavery and the problems of Blacks in the western worlds TODAY are completely connected. Read Connect and understand!

Hey Spirit, I een no expert and can't say decisively that you are incorrect, but something really does not seem to be clicking here! This sounds like a perfect "excuse" for us blacks to continue living in squalor and poverty. If some of us make it to the top, or make something of ourselves and make a
decent, prosperous living, I don't see any reason why most of us can't do likewise!
The Good book says "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he". And if we would be positive, tough it out and grow up and "Grip the world", there should be no reason why we can't achieve in this life what we want to achieve! There are persons right here who were born and grew in dire poverty and yet still achieved success. It is NOT easy and it definitely cannot be achieved by a negative mind set!
It is said at one time there were many whites who were slaves also, but I have never heard of many of them letting that long-ago situation keep them back!
[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, but I don't think Spirit was making excuses. The point simply is that if left unchecked at some point in succeeding post slavery, black people living in what was the New World would think like a slave. That is not to say that this metality can't be broken, but more so that in order to perpetuate positive growth and delepment it must be broken. The Good book also speaks about modes of thinking that transcend generations and they term it generational curses ie. what you mother knew she'll teach you, etc...the whole learnt behaviour thing.

Not true.
In both parties no young person has dared to effectively step up and fight fire with fire. This is why the older politicians are winning the war in taking the top positions.
Politics is a dirty game and Turnquest didn't have what it takes. If he did, he would have been able to fend off Ingraham quite easily. To put it plainly, the stronger man won.
In politics there is no line of succession or automatic expectation of replacement by younger persons. The leadership must be taken by force. Stronger leaders will always dominate any political field. We have a bunch of younger politicians who are too busy kissing the behinds of those who are older, instead of creating their own loyalties and planning their own takeovers.
Our "younger" generation is too soft and we do not know what true ruthlessness is. Until that changes, expect to see the same faces dominating politics - And rightly so.


I can't speak directly to what is going on in the PLP, but I'm pretty sure that there are dray load of youner politicians planning their acsendancy to the throne.

I agree with you that Sen. Turnquest's inability to roll Hubert out showed his lack of skill as a politician. My point though was simply that I would have thought (and also from speaking with some of them before Convention) that they (FNM delegates) would have considered the implication of recycling Hubert Ingraham. No matter what you say, to a lot of Bahamians it simply sends the message that the FNM is void of leaders - simple as that. No matter how the FNM will try to spin it, that is the resounding message.

On top of all that, Mr. Ingraham (for obvious reasons) fought his battle in the shadows, even telling his competitors the night before nominations that he WAS NOT going to run. I don't fault the man for changing his mind, but I fault the FNM delegates that allowed him to do so successfully. It was a major faux pas!!!

On top of all that, Mr. Ingraham (for obvious reasons) fought his battle in the shadows, even telling his competitors the night before nominations that he WAS NOT going to run. I don't fault the man for changing his mind, but I fault the FNM delegates that allowed him to do so successfully. It was a major faux pas!!!

Nope, it's called Politics. It took a lot of undercover work to get that much support.

He knew that he was going to attempt a comeback from the time he appointed Turnquest. He was aware that Turnquest was a "party man" and was relatively clean with no mean streaks.

"If you are going to uproot a tree eventually, never plant one that digs its roots too deep."