hmmmm, would be equally as nice if young bahamian girls practiced birth control too....they cant stop poppin (but i know what you will say...theyre in their country....ladadada...) bored of going in circles. :taped2:

Hey, you may be good at reading minds, but sometimes it may be difficult to read mine!

The moment I read your first sentence, (before reading what you have in bracket), I was like, O My lord, she gat me this time. I een like that, dear, I am very quick in admitting when I am wrong.

I always tell most of my friends that I blame us men for most of these underage girls getting pregnant! (You should see the Mother's Day poem I wrote and recited for our church).

PS. Pastor Miles Munroe made a powerful statement the other day (not in this context though). He said: "Where there is ignorance, there will be abuse". So are we so ignorant we are allowing these illegals to abuse us!?
Just a thought!

Dude you need to live on an island all by yourself, clearly opinions other than your's doesn't need to be said!:raw: You just love to dictate!Go form a website where it's just your opinions and where no one else is allowed to comment!:hammer:

I think this is just gross and utterly ridiculous! Completely un-called for! To me YorickBrown is one of the best commentators on this board. He gives knowledgable, wise and balanced views in all of his postings.

I hope it is not that he has posted such good facts and info which you can't dispute or understand which caused you to make this belittling, untruthful statement! :dgi:

Your arguments are based exclusively on separating asylum and immigration issues. Quite frankly though, couldn't almost anyone living in the more violent, high risk portions of Haiti apply for asylum status?
yes! as the government prepares to toughen up immigration legislation (it seems), i think it as absolutely imperative that they take into consideration our international obligations...and simply not lump all immigrants in one category together. as to the second part of your comment...living in a violent society is (normally) not enough to recieve asylum status. a successful asylum applicant must be facing persecution/or violence, and that persecution or violence must be attributable to his religion, nationality, political opinion, memembership in a particular social group or race/ethnicity. having satisfactorily proven he/she has a 'well-founded fear' of persecution-on one of the highlighted grounds will result in refugee status. the test used to determine 'well founded fear' is a subjective one, but considers objective facts (such as COI, etc).

Inclusion is indeed the primary issue in assigning refugee status, but the glaring lack of a proper processing department and the costs included in developing such a venture could be the real reason why the Bahamas doesn't offer this service.
yes yorick, thats might be valid concern, but it certainly does not outweigh the need for such human resources. asylum seekers are entitled (by law) to discuss their situation in a language they understand - that oftens means through an interpreter. dont get me wrong, i think immigration have a *couple* of people with such capabilities...but certainly not enough! and interpretation is hard, very hard. as you say, it requires special training! but asylum seekers have this right - and many of them dont speak any english. imagine if you were arrested in a country where you dont speak the language...you have a right to know what charges are being brought against you. the govt. saying, "we dont have the 'resources for an interpreter'" is totally unacceptable.

asylum seekers should also have recourse to legal advice and be informed of their right to claim asylum. i was once told this people are not informed of this right, because we dont 'advertise asylum'...i was stunned since this is a requirement. and yes...if you inform people, everyone might then claim asylum, but thats where a stringent refugee status determination policy must be applied.

A fairly good number of persons fluent in Haitian Creole would be necessary to interview each and every immigrant to this nation. They then would have to be extensively trained in gathering the necessary information from each applicant. Thus the question arises of the cost incurred by keeping an applicant in the detention center while their asylum status is being determined. The finances involved would be very prohibitive given the number of persons who are caught entering our shores from Haiti. With a new base in the works in Inagua (hopefully) this means that even more will be detained. More persons = more money spent on processing asylum applications, versus simply putting them on a plane and sending them back home.
yes...well this is true, it might even require a new dept w/in immigration! and i can head it :dancer: ....but yes, its a big job, but i was amazed when i did research and saw the state of our 'asylum policy'.

In addition to the financial challenges, the attitudes of those who have already entered this country illegally would also be prohibitive. They usually hide until they "get straight". Why would they want to risk being sent back due to a failed asylum application when they can simply get a permit and live here as they please?
thats another issue, because according to refugee law...asylum seekers should not to be arbitrarily detained - not if their claims are being processed. it is arguable, however that given the size of our country, and the large immigrant communities, that those awaiting decisions can be considered a 'flight risk' and therefore warrant detention, but remember, just broadly speaking, detention is not designed for asylum seekers awaiting decisions.

The easiest solution to this problem would be the initial processing of all asylum applications in Haiti. Once a Haitian decides to seek status here, they would first have to notify the Bahamian embassy in Haiti before they take any other step towards entering The Bahamas.
hmmm...in theory this would make sense, but in reality, im afraid its probably not possible. if you are being persecuted for your political beliefs, the chances of you having the freedom haiti to go around and apply for asylum are bound to be low, i would have thought. also, if you consider the safety factor, etc, i think, practically, this approach might not work. also very often, the vast majority of the world's asylum do not have the financial resources to apply for a visa and buy a plane ticket before flying to their 'land of refuge'. thus its still necessary to have a processing centre here.

RBDF officers would stop Haitian sloops as usual and through satellite technology access the asylum list over the internet while on the seas. They then could instantly board any immigrant who previously applied for asylum status. This can be authenticated by an on-file fingerprint and photo that would have been given at the Bahamian embassy in Haiti. The others on the sloop could immediately be sent back. Perhaps this is the answer while we implement a program for the illegal immigrants who are currently here. I would say that they too should immediately be sent back, but with first priority in applying for asylum status once they arrive in Haiti.
def. see your point here...pragmatic, but not practical for the reasons outlined above.

Would it be permitted that The Bahamas only allow asylum applications that originate from Haiti? In my limited knowledge, it would be simpler, for the Bahamian embassy in Haiti would have instant access to HNP records, as well as possible eyewitness accounts of threats.
to be honest with you, i think it is probably not illegal to do this, but such a move would be frowned upon internationally if we relied only on accepting asylum application from abroad. simply because, like i said...the overwhelming majority of asylum seekers are not in a position to seek travel documents prior to departure. some prople have to literally get up and flee, to avoid being killed, so sorting out asylum before hand would sort of be useless. remember all the drama with the australians (deplorable asylum policy there) and the usa, when they decided on their policies off 'offshore processing'? there was outrage in the refguee law world - although this dismay was expressed for different reasons. in those cases, the said countries cleverly decided that processing offshore (not on US or Aussie soil) would remove the legal protections afforded to asylum seekers. that way they could get away with anything - including arbitrary detention.

I agree to a minor degree with handling things according to the asylum law, but I can see that it’s going to slow down The Bahamas' efforts against illegal immigration, drastically.
well it might indeed slow down things...but think of how it would clarify things! i dont know whether i made my points very clear...i an suffering a gorible cold, and feel like im about to fall out...but you know i love discussing these things!

TO: me
thats another issue, because according to refugee law...asylum seekers should not to be arbitrarily detained - not if their claims are being processed. it is arguable, however that given the size of our country, and the large immigrant communities, that those awaiting decisions can be considered a 'flight risk' and therefore warrant detention, but remember, just broadly speaking, detention is not designed for asylum seekers awaiting decisions.

Oops, i didnt mean flight risk there...thinking of criminal law (lol)...i meant there's a risk they would disappear into the community!:hammer:

Edited

TO: me
thats another issue, because according to refugee law...asylum seekers should not to be arbitrarily detained - not if their claims are being processed. it is arguable, however that given the size of our country, and the large immigrant communities, that those awaiting decisions can be considered a 'flight risk' and therefore warrant detention, but remember, just broadly speaking, detention is not designed for asylum seekers awaiting decisions.
Oops, i didnt mean flight risk there...thinking of criminal law (lol)...i meant there's a risk they would disappear into the community!:hammer:


Personally I don't see any other option than detaining these immigrants. The illegal immigrant issue is currently The Bahamas' most difficult problem to deal with. It is virtually impossible to intercept every immigrant en route, and once here immigrants have thousands of countrymen willing top in the assist them. Shantytowns sprang up in the 80s and 90s and became too large a problem for our immigration department to deal with. International human rights organizations criticized our repatriation efforts and pressured us to drop them. Now the problem is too big for us to get around. We cannot just round up immigrants as this will raise the ire of even more human rights groups.

No Government has been able to deal with this problem and I haven't seen any suggestions that can actually work. The future looks bleak!

Hopefully The Government will at least realize the importance of providing appropriate funding for our Defence Force so that immigrant vessels can be intercepted as early as possible, when there is still an opportunity to turn them around. This is also necessary to protect our fisheries resources. These things need to be dealt with now, we don't have the luxury of time on this issue.

Personally I don't see any other option than detaining these immigrants. The illegal immigrant issue is currently The Bahamas' most difficult problem to deal with. It is virtually impossible to intercept every immigrant en route, and once here immigrants have thousands of countrymen willing top in the assist them. Shantytowns sprang up in the 80s and 90s and became too large a problem for our immigration department to deal with. International human rights organizations criticized our repatriation efforts and pressured us to drop them. Now the problem is too big for us to get around. We cannot just round up immigrants as this will raise the ire of even more human rights groups.
No Government has been able to deal with this problem and I haven't seen any suggestions that can actually work. The future looks bleak!
Hopefully The Government will at least realize the importance of providing appropriate funding for our Defence Force so that immigrant vessels can be intercepted as early as possible, when there is still an opportunity to turn them around. This is also necessary to protect our fisheries resources. These things need to be dealt with now, we don't have the luxury of time on this issue.

well thats the difficulty you see...you talk about interception...that practice in itself was condemned by the international community. intercepting potential asylum seekers goes against the 'spirit' of the treaty. this is because when you intercept potential refugees at sea, their presence in territorial waters is (usually) automatically criminalised. they then arrive on land as criminals - facing criminal penalities...sure they might be arriving illegally, but refugee law jurisprudence tell us over and over again, the fact the an asylum seeker enters a country illegally, is not reason to bring criminal charges against him.

i wont pretend to know the answers to our dilemma...i can only explain refugee law to the best of my understanding. having said all i have, i do recognise and appreciate the difficulty the bahamas is having. if we dont intercept ALL illegal immigrants at sea, it becomes that much more difficult to monitor them/repatriate them. but how can we reconcile this important issue and respect the rights of those on the boats, who might want to claim asylum?

as for detention, i think loads of money needs to be invested in immigration to deal with situations such as this. my first thought when i read your comments was electronic tagging...but then on second thoughts, these people arent really 'criminals', so that might not go down too well. :what:

Here is an idea: Try and arrange for a couple thousand of these illegals (the poor ones, that is) to be accommodated on 2 or 3 sizable uninhabited Bahamian islands. Try to get funding from the US and others of the international community to build nice homes, set up industries, schools, etc, etc, for them. Let them work on those lands where they can live as long as they like, with very limited and controlled visits to other islands. They can, for the most part be allowed to set up their own rules, laws, etc , and way of life. Maybe something like this can work -- just an idea, for what its worth!

Here is an idea: Try and arrange for a couple thousand of these illegals (the poor ones, that is) to be accommodated on 2 or 3 sizable uninhabited Bahamian islands. Try to get funding from the US and others of the international community to build nice homes, set up industries, schools, etc, etc, for them. Let them work on those lands where they can live as long as they like, with very limited and controlled visits to other islands. They can, for the most part be allowed to set up their own rules, laws, etc , and way of life. Maybe something like this can work -- just an idea, for what its worth!

:screw: uh...bad idea. for those allowed to stay in bahamas - INTEGRATION should be the number one priority.

Here is an idea: Try and arrange for a couple thousand of these illegals (the poor ones, that is) to be accommodated on 2 or 3 sizable uninhabited Bahamian islands. Try to get funding from the US and others of the international community to build nice homes, set up industries, schools, etc, etc, for them. Let them work on those lands where they can live as long as they like, with very limited and controlled visits to other islands. They can, for the most part be allowed to set up their own rules, laws, etc , and way of life. Maybe something like this can work -- just an idea, for what its worth!

This reminds me of Austalia being developed as a penal colony, Gitmo, Alacatraz and a few other examples...

Why not lop off the southern Bahamas and give it to Haiti then? The Bahamas has the rule of law, however badly they're enforced and everyone who lives on the island should abide by them.

What industry could they develop with limited access to the rest of the country or the rest of the world? Moving the poorest in many cases means moving the uneducated. What real industry (save agriculture) could flourish with untalented workers and management? Even agriculture today requires more automation and strategic thinking to compete on open markets as well as substantial capital input. Who provides that talent?

Not to mention the uproar many Bahamians will make when a bunch of illegals are granted entire islands while they can't afford real estate themselves.

:screw: uh...bad idea. for those allowed to stay in bahamas - INTEGRATION should be the number one priority.

In implementing my suggestion, I am not changing anything about those who are already here legally or with some status. I am talking about new ones coming in or want to enter. Those already here should be dealt with differently. And yes, they would be integrated among themselves which is what they desire, it seems!

This reminds me of Austalia being developed as a penal colony, Gitmo, Alacatraz and a few other examples...
Why not lop off the southern Bahamas and give it to Haiti then? The Bahamas has the rule of law, however badly they're enforced and everyone who lives on the island should abide by them.
What industry could they develop with limited access to the rest of the country or the rest of the world? Moving the poorest in many cases means moving the uneducated. What real industry (save agriculture) could flourish with untalented workers and management? Even agriculture today requires more automation and strategic thinking to compete on open markets as well as substantial capital input. Who provides that talent?
Not to mention the uproar many Bahamians will make when a bunch of illegals are granted entire islands while they can't afford real estate themselves.

Well, my idea is like a shot in the dark -- something one would put forward in a brainstorming session, in which case no matter how ridiculous an idea seems, it can trigger other ideas one of which could well be the answer.

Right now it seems that most of us even the government don't have a clue how this illegal immigration situation should be solved. For the life of me I can't understand why they don't have a brainstorming session of the whole parliament and come up with strategies and solve this problem once and for all!!!

Carefully plan their objective and implement it, rather than being defeatist and acting as if the situation will never be resolved!

I think this is just gross and utterly ridiculous! Completely un-called for! To me YorickBrown is one of the best commentators on this board. He gives knowledgable, wise and balanced views in all of his postings.
I hope it is not that he has posted such good facts and info which you can't dispute or understand which caused you to make this belittling, untruthful statement! :dgi:

I also agree, sometime he does have a stick up his arse:D but Yorick means well, God bless him!

...mmm no. nothing will. not even you. :fly:

dont be so sure sweet girl
dont be so sure;)

dont be so sure sweet girl
dont be so sure;)

:what: who DARED to dredge this old conch out of the sea????