There have been many references throughout varying threads in the political section of this forum about the PLP mentioning the UBP element within the FNM Party.

I should state up front that I do not have any affiliation with any major political party, in fact (like most Bahamians) I have family members intimately involved in both the FNM and PLP. My take then is purely an historical account and I also make no judgement on whether or not the PLP is right or wrong for mentioning it, but merely to clarify the debate.

The United Bahamian Party was formed in direct response to the formation of the PLP in November of 1953. Before the formation of the PLP there were no political parties in the Bahamas (at that time). The party system as we know it today simply did not exist. Each constituency had "independent" members of Parliament, which coincidentally were all unpaid posts at that time.

Despite the fact however that an official party label was not held by parliamentary representatives, many of these representatives were Bay Street businessmen and thus the term, "Bay Street Boys" was created (by who I don't know) and thus applied to that group. It was generally felt that (with some degree of truth) that these Bay Street Boys were primarily concerned with passing legislation that benefited them and their friends (primarily wealthy white bussiness people) to the exclusion of other groups.

Now, in direct response to this social environment, three near white (if not white) men, namely Bill Cartwright, Cyril Stevenson and Henry M. Taylor formed the Progressive Liberal Party. This party was designed to combat the perceived discrimantory climate that was (again) perceived to be perpetuated by the Bay Street Boys.

I say all that to point out that it would be historically inaccurate to interpret any reference made to the UBP in a purely racial context, as they discrimanated not against race but by class. If you were white and poor, they still discriminated against you. Indeed there was racial segragation, but Islanders in the Stream written by Drs. Saunders and Criton clearly explain that the Bay Street Boys and then the UBP were interested in the advancement of themselves, their friends and people of their class.

I then personally interpret all references made to the UBP as purely a point of interest. These fellas back then weren't interested in my advancement or upliftment if I wasn't a member of their class.

I think we all know that in time the UBP and the Free PLP (disgruntled PLP's) joined forces to become the Free National Movement. I also think we all know that Sir Roland Symmonette, first premier of the Bahamas and final leader of a governing UBP is the father of Brent Symmonette and I only mention all this now to fill any historical gaps. I hope this clarifies the debate!

If this is correct, maybe you should add this to Wikipedia.

There have been many references throughout varying threads in the political section of this forum about the PLP mentioning the UBP element within the FNM Party.
I should state up front that I do not have any affiliation with any major political party, in fact (like most Bahamians) I have family members intimately involved in both the FNM and PLP. My take then is purely an historical account and I also make no judgement on whether or not the PLP is right or wrong for mentioning it, but merely to clarify the debate.
The United Bahamian Party was formed in direct response to the formation of the PLP in November of 1953. Before the formation of the PLP there were no political parties in the Bahamas (at that time). The party system as we know it today simply did not exist. Each constituency had "independent" members of Parliament, which coincidentally were all unpaid posts at that time.
Despite the fact however that an official party label was not held by parliamentary representatives, many of these representatives were Bay Street businessmen and thus the term, "Bay Street Boys" was created (by who I don't know) and thus applied to that group. It was generally felt that (with some degree of truth) that these Bay Street Boys were primarily concerned with passing legislation that benefited them and their friends (primarily wealthy white bussiness people) to the exclusion of other groups.
Now, in direct response to this social environment, three near white (if not white) men, namely Bill Cartwright, Cyril St. Stevens and Henry M. Taylor formed the Progressive Liberal Party. This party was designed to combat the perceived discrimantory climate that was (again) perceived to be perpetuated by the Bay Street Boys.
I say all that to point out that it would be historically inaccurate to interpret any reference made to the UBP in a purely racial context, as they discrimanated not against race but by class. If you were white and poor, they still discriminated against you. Indeed there was racial segragation, but Islanders in the Stream written by Drs. Saunders and Criton clearly explain that the Bay Street Boys and then the UBP were interested in the advancement of themselves, their friends and people of their class.
I personally then personally interpret all references made to the UBP as purely a point of interest. These fellas back then weren't interested in my advancement or upliftment if I wasn't a member of their class.
I think we all know that in time the UBP and the Free PLP (disgruntled PLP's) joined forces to become the Free National Movement. I also think we all know that Sir Roland Symmonette, first premier of the Bahamas and final leader of a governing UBP is the father of Brent Symmonette and I only mention all this now to fill any historical gaps. I hope this clarifies the debate!

Good synopsis!

Good synopsis!

But it's nothing but damage control.

Now that some Bahamian people are speaking out against the racially biased comments that EVERY PLP minister made, prepare to see an immediate backtrack to denouncing the "actions" of the UBP rather than their "race".

And how can it be proven that it was racial? Minister Roberts was a UBP and so was the PM's father. Obviously, they are picking on Symonette because he is white.

They've already riled up the people at convention, now its time to attempt to "fix the message". Sol and the rest of the investors should have been watching the convention to see how they really carry on.

Yeah, it's all politics, but it was a nasty and very hypocritical strategy. They need to be called on it.

But it's nothing but damage control.
Now that some Bahamian people are speaking out against the racially biased comments that EVERY PLP minister made, prepare to see an immediate backtrack to denouncing the "actions" of the UBP rather than their "race".
And how can it be proven that it was racial? Minister Roberts was a UBP and so was the PM's father. Obviously, they are picking on Symonette because he is white.
They've already riled up the people at convention, now its time to attempt to "fix the message". Sol and the rest of the investors should have been watching the convention to see how they really carry on.
Yeah, it's all politics, but it was a nasty and very hypocritical strategy. They need to be called on it.


That wasn't what I was trying to do. I personally also think that it's not an issue of the UBP's actions or their race. I think the real issue is that the UBP committed such actions NOT just on black people but on all people that they considered to be of a lower class.

Interesting story to prove my point: Before Sir Roland came up on his wealth (through whichever means that he did) the Bay Street Boys didn't want anything to do with him. It wasn't until after he acquired some money that they allowed him into their circle. The fact simply is Yorick, that the UBP discriminated against thosee who did not have, not only against those who were black.

Good history lesson. Thanks!

There have been many references throughout varying threads in the political section of this forum about the PLP mentioning the UBP element within the FNM Party.
I should state up front that I do not have any affiliation with any major political party, in fact (like most Bahamians) I have family members intimately involved in both the FNM and PLP. My take then is purely an historical account and I also make no judgement on whether or not the PLP is right or wrong for mentioning it, but merely to clarify the debate.
The United Bahamian Party was formed in direct response to the formation of the PLP in November of 1953. Before the formation of the PLP there were no political parties in the Bahamas (at that time). The party system as we know it today simply did not exist. Each constituency had "independent" members of Parliament, which coincidentally were all unpaid posts at that time.
Despite the fact however that an official party label was not held by parliamentary representatives, many of these representatives were Bay Street businessmen and thus the term, "Bay Street Boys" was created (by who I don't know) and thus applied to that group. It was generally felt that (with some degree of truth) that these Bay Street Boys were primarily concerned with passing legislation that benefited them and their friends (primarily wealthy white bussiness people) to the exclusion of other groups.
Now, in direct response to this social environment, three near white (if not white) men, namely Bill Cartwright, Cyril Stevenson and Henry M. Taylor formed the Progressive Liberal Party. This party was designed to combat the perceived discrimantory climate that was (again) perceived to be perpetuated by the Bay Street Boys.
I say all that to point out that it would be historically inaccurate to interpret any reference made to the UBP in a purely racial context, as they discrimanated not against race but by class. If you were white and poor, they still discriminated against you. Indeed there was racial segragation, but Islanders in the Stream written by Drs. Saunders and Criton clearly explain that the Bay Street Boys and then the UBP were interested in the advancement of themselves, their friends and people of their class.
I then personally interpret all references made to the UBP as purely a point of interest. These fellas back then weren't interested in my advancement or upliftment if I wasn't a member of their class.
I think we all know that in time the UBP and the Free PLP (disgruntled PLP's) joined forces to become the Free National Movement. I also think we all know that Sir Roland Symmonette, first premier of the Bahamas and final leader of a governing UBP is the father of Brent Symmonette and I only mention all this now to fill any historical gaps. I hope this clarifies the debate!

well said bey!

There have been many references throughout varying threads in the political section of this forum about the PLP mentioning the UBP element within the FNM Party.
I should state up front that I do not have any affiliation with any major political party, in fact (like most Bahamians) I have family members intimately involved in both the FNM and PLP. My take then is purely an historical account and I also make no judgement on whether or not the PLP is right or wrong for mentioning it, but merely to clarify the debate.
The United Bahamian Party was formed in direct response to the formation of the PLP in November of 1953. Before the formation of the PLP there were no political parties in the Bahamas (at that time). The party system as we know it today simply did not exist. Each constituency had "independent" members of Parliament, which coincidentally were all unpaid posts at that time.
Despite the fact however that an official party label was not held by parliamentary representatives, many of these representatives were Bay Street businessmen and thus the term, "Bay Street Boys" was created (by who I don't know) and thus applied to that group. It was generally felt that (with some degree of truth) that these Bay Street Boys were primarily concerned with passing legislation that benefited them and their friends (primarily wealthy white bussiness people) to the exclusion of other groups.
Now, in direct response to this social environment, three near white (if not white) men, namely Bill Cartwright, Cyril Stevenson and Henry M. Taylor formed the Progressive Liberal Party. This party was designed to combat the perceived discrimantory climate that was (again) perceived to be perpetuated by the Bay Street Boys.
I say all that to point out that it would be historically inaccurate to interpret any reference made to the UBP in a purely racial context, as they discrimanated not against race but by class. If you were white and poor, they still discriminated against you. Indeed there was racial segragation, but Islanders in the Stream written by Drs. Saunders and Criton clearly explain that the Bay Street Boys and then the UBP were interested in the advancement of themselves, their friends and people of their class.
I then personally interpret all references made to the UBP as purely a point of interest. These fellas back then weren't interested in my advancement or upliftment if I wasn't a member of their class.
I think we all know that in time the UBP and the Free PLP (disgruntled PLP's) joined forces to become the Free National Movement. I also think we all know that Sir Roland Symmonette, first premier of the Bahamas and final leader of a governing UBP is the father of Brent Symmonette and I only mention all this now to fill any historical gaps. I hope this clarifies the debate!

please write to ALL newspapers :angel:

That wasn't what I was trying to do. I personally also think that it's not an issue of the UBP's actions or their race. I think the real issue is that the UBP committed such actions NOT just on black people but on all people that they considered to be of a lower class.
Interesting story to prove my point: Before Sir Roland came up on his wealth (through whichever means that he did) the Bay Street Boys didn't want anything to do with him. It wasn't until after he acquired some money that they allowed him into their circle. The fact simply is Yorick, that the UBP discriminated against thosee who did not have, not only against those who were black.

Yes - You are correct to point out that the UBP weren't all about race when they were formed. As previous members of this forum have pointed out, when they were formed the UBP in fact had several non-white members. As you correctly point out the UBP was formed in reaction to the PLP. The PLP was trying to change things. The UBP was trying to maintain the status quo. Don't misunderstand that to mean, however, that there was no racial motivation - the status quo at the time was that the white minority held the lion's share of the wealth, political power and social status in the country. Racialism was fundamentally a part of Bahamian society at the time. Your place in society was determined by the colour of your skin (and your nose and perhaps most importantly, your hair). In fact, The Bahamas was compared to the US south and South Africa under apartheid. There were many places non-whites were not welcome in Nassau, and even those places that admitted both whites and non-whites, non-whites had to sit in designated areas. Colin Hughes book Race and Politics in The Bahamas gives an excellent description.
Thank God we have left those days behind. Bahamians as a people have grown closer in time. But we still have a long way to go to a colourblind society - the fact that the race can still inflame such passion surely is evidence of this. The way to solve the issue is to change people's hearts. But you can only change someone else's heart if you change yours first. I'm working on that one myself.
Oh, and about the UBP and Pop Symonette. The way I understand it was that the reason Pop wasn't accepted by the Bay Street Boys was because he wasn't "pure in heart" (you oldtimers will know what I mean by that). In fact even after he made his money, some of them still did not accept him. Now that's the real irony behind "playin' the race card!"

please write to ALL newspapers :angel:

Is it that easy for educated Bahamians to drop this issue, while many convention attendees have been hearing a completely different story?


That wasn't what I was trying to do. I personally also think that it's not an issue of the UBP's actions or their race.

While I agree with your historical "explanation", it must be made quite clear that this is not the intention of those Ministers who have brought the issue up. Indeed you are giving them far too much credit.

Their comments deal with race exclusively and from the reactions that I have heard and seen with my own eyes, the grassroots element in this society is once again taking this matter to heart as a issue of race.

Certain "over the hill" persons are not seeing things the way you have. Obviously you are a well-educated person with the knowledge of the entire story, so your interpretation would be far different. Just look at some of the messages that have been posted on this site by PLP supporters. When they hear UBP, they automatically think that the FNM is going to take this country back to the days of racial segregation. How else can you intepret a PLP supporter shouting "Symonette dont like Black people!"?

It is irresponsible for PLP ministers to continuously spin up their people on this matter in such a way. They should know better.

You are probably more than aware that what you "personally think" is not what is being portrayed by PLP leaders. To do so shows an inherent degree of naivety and a lack of knowledge on how the PLP has played on the sensitive racial emotions of our people over the years. It's a deviously smart strategy, but it only ends up creating racial tension in this country, which is damaging over the long term.

Your post is educational, but "Granny over the hill" isn't the one reading it, nor was the messages presented at the convention intended along those lines.

Is it that easy for educated Bahamians to drop this issue, while many convention attendees have been hearing a completely different story?



While I agree with your historical "explanation", it must be made quite clear that this is not the intention of those Ministers who have brought the issue up. Indeed you are giving them far too much credit.

Their comments deal with race exclusively and from the reactions that I have heard and seen with my own eyes, the grassroots element in this society is once again taking this matter to heart as a issue of race.

Certain "over the hill" persons are not seeing things the way you have. Obviously you are a well-educated person with the knowledge of the entire story, so your interpretation would be far different. Just look at some of the messages that have been posted on this site by PLP supporters. When they hear UBP, they automatically think that the FNM is going to take this country back to the days of racial segregation. How else can you intepret a PLP supporter shouting "Symonette dont like Black people!"?

It is irresponsible for PLP ministers to continuously spin up their people on this matter in such a way. They should know better.

You are probably more than aware that what you "personally think" is not what is being portrayed by PLP leaders. To do so shows an inherent degree of naivety and a lack of knowledge on how the PLP has played on the sensitive racial emotions of our people over the years. It's a deviously smart strategy, but it only ends up creating racial tension in this country, which is damaging over the long term.

Your post is educational, but "Granny over the hill" isn't the one reading it, nor was the messages presented at the convention intended along those lines.


i shall give this my stamp of approval

But it's nothing but damage control.
Now that some Bahamian people are speaking out against the racially biased comments that EVERY PLP minister made, prepare to see an immediate backtrack to denouncing the "actions" of the UBP rather than their "race".
And how can it be proven that it was racial? Minister Roberts was a UBP and so was the PM's father. Obviously, they are picking on Symonette because he is white.
They've already riled up the people at convention, now its time to attempt to "fix the message". Sol and the rest of the investors should have been watching the convention to see how they really carry on.
Yeah, it's all politics, but it was a nasty and very hypocritical strategy. They need to be called on it.

Exactly as i see it. The PLP cannot be allowed to get away with their racist mentality.The Prime Minister ought to apologize for his ill-advise minister and members of parliament. The share irony of this racial baiting is that Bradley Roberts was more UBP than Brent symonette will ever be.

Exactly as i see it. The PLP cannot be allowed to get away with their racist mentality.The Prime Minister ought to apologize for his ill-advise minister and members of parliament. The share irony of this racial baiting is that Bradley Roberts was more UBP than Brent symonette will ever be.

Well said!

Exactly as i see it. The PLP cannot be allowed to get away with their racist mentality.The Prime Minister ought to apologize for his ill-advise minister and members of parliament. The share irony of this racial baiting is that Bradley Roberts was more UBP than Brent symonette will ever be.

I will agree with this too. I'm young and dont know about the UBP, but I've heard enough to get an idea. Its sooooo obvious that they are tring to fuel and bring back the anger that persons have buried about the UBP. I doubt its concerning the division of rich and poor, or classes. But this black and white thing. They dont have to say it, Bahamians arent dumb, (contrary to what Ingraham thinks :rolleyes: ).

Also, whats up with all the ghetto-ness that comes out with these politicians. Put them in front of billiondollar investors, or some foreign leader and they act civilized. Put them in front voters, and they sound like Cardo under the dilly tree. Now that I think of it, that is probably what voters like anyway, and they just play on it.

I will agree with this too. I'm young and dont know about the UBP, but I've heard enough to get an idea. Its sooooo obvious that they are tring to fuel and bring back the anger that persons have buried about the UBP. I doubt its concerning the division of rich and poor, or classes. But this black and white thing. They dont have to say it, Bahamians arent dumb, (contrary to what Ingraham thinks :rolleyes: ).
Also, whats up with all the ghetto-ness that comes out with these politicians. Put them in front of billiondollar investors, or some foreign leader and they act civilized. Put them in front voters, and they sound like Cardo under the dilly treeNow that I think of it, that is probably what voters like anyway, and they just play on it.

LMAO...lol! cardo under the dilly tree....boy you are JOKES! i suppose our politicians are 'talented'...'multi-dimensional'!