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Cedric Moss
08-03-03, - 03:37 PM
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Bishop Greene’s Comments – Part 3

By Apostle Cedric Moss

August 3, 2003

Last week I took an imaginary journey into the year 2010 and gave consideration to some of the “other” types of unscriptural unions Canada will be called upon to legalize as they continue down the slippery slope of rebellion against the God ordained institution of marriage. While I plan to say more on this issue at a later date, today I conclude my three-part commentary in the context of the current national discussion on homosexuality.

Too far fetched?
Is it too far fetched to think that nations condoning and legalizing homosexual unions will eventually legalize “other” types that are currently prohibited? Not at all! The appropriate question is not “if” but “when” will these nations allow adult incest (heterosexual and homosexual), bigamy, polygamy, various forms of group unions to legalize same and mixed gender orgies, bestiality, and other vile unions, limited only by the wicked imaginations of fallen humanity.

How will those courts and governments that entertain the “denial of freedom” and “constitutional rights” arguments by homosexuals, be able to deny others using the same arguments for the legalization of other vile sexual relations and marriages that are currently prohibited?

For those who think the possible legalization of these “other” types of sexual unions and marriages is really too far fetched, I suggest a quick reading of Romans 1:18-32, and a special noting of these words: “They invent ways of doing evil.” In addition, I would remind them that, even though prohibited by law, ALL of these vile, prohibited sexual relations are currently being engaged in by persons whose minds are as vile as their practices. In time, these persons will come with brassy, shameless faces, as some homosexuals are now doing, and ask courts and governments to legalize what they have been doing for so long in defiance of the law. And for nations already on the slippery slope of legalizing homosexual marriages, these requests will seem logical and progressive. And they are progressive, but in a downward direction.

By what standard?
What is the abiding standard by which homosexual marriage is prohibited? The clear answer is the revealed will of God as established in creation and confirmed time and time again in Holy Scripture. Accordingly, wise nations have legislated God’s divine intent for marriage as being between male and female, and this is the same basis for the prohibition of other sexual unions. Those who arbitrarily remove the prohibition off one (homosexuality) and try to leave it on all the others are arrogant and defiant of God and His laws. They are not ignorant. If they were, they would have an excuse, but they have none.

Even when nations like Canada rage and try to break off divine boundaries (see Psalm 2:16), God’s Word and standards still define and determine true marriage. If we call a Cactus a “rose”, that “rose” is still a Cactus but all other roses are roses. The same is true with homosexual marriage; nations like Canada can call them marriage all they like but they never can be and therefore never will be. They are marriage counterfeits, and very poor ones at that.

Deceptive Words
Part of the strategy of those who are lobbying for homosexuality to be seen as legitimate is deceptive communication. They have sought to redefine “gay” to mean homosexual and “straight” to mean heterosexual. This is misleading and deceptive. The word “gay” makes an abominable sexual practice seem pleasant and “straight” makes normal, blissful sexuality seem starchy and bland. Those of us who are interested in truthful communication should use the words homosexual (meaning same sex) and heterosexual (meaning other sex), and not join those on the “politically correct” parade who use the deceptive words, “gay” and “straight”.

Demeaning Words
Some who are opposed to homosexuality use demeaning words like “sissy”, “limp wrist” and others I prefer not to write. The use of such words is wrong and demeaning, especially when used by those of us who are followers of Christ. The reality is that no matter who people are or what they have done, Christ’s love for them is unquestionable and ours must be as well. We are called to reach ALL lost people, including homosexuals, and to do this we must build bridges, not walls. As we build bridges, we must speak the truth in love, without compromising with sin, but also without condemning those for whom Christ died.

Throwing Stones
John records the event of a woman who was caught in the very act of adultery (see John 8:3-11). She was brought to Jesus but strangely the man she was caught with was not brought. Perhaps he was a Pharisee, and this is the reason. We are told Jesus wrote on the ground, but what He wrote we do not know. We are also told he invited those without sin to cast the fist stone at the woman. No one did. They all left, one by one, from the oldest to the youngest. Jesus then told the woman she was not condemned and should go and leave her life of sin.

I suppose if Jesus was here today, He would similarly respond to those who seek to “stone” others trapped in sin, especially the ones they are not guilty of. And based on the same qualification to throw stones (be without sin), none will qualify to throw. I believe He would invite those guilty of sin to receive forgiveness and to turn away from their life of sin. We must do the same.

Compassion and Wisdom
My prayer is that the Lord will grant those of us who follow Him true compassion for those bound by sin….all sin, including homosexuality, and not self-righteous, judgemental, “stone throwing” anger. In addition, I pray that those who have the privilege of formulating legislation in our parliament, and interpreting it in our courts, will acknowledge that they are God’s servants to whom He has delegated authority (see Romans 13:1-5). By God’s grace, I pray they demonstrate wisdom and obedience by affirming and upholding the trustworthy standards of His Word as they define and determine marriage and other aspects of national life.



Apostle Cedric Moss serves as Senior Pastor at Kingdom Life World Outreach Centre. Comments and feedback may be directed to: apostle@kingdom-life.org.

GodSign
08-05-03, - 05:52 AM
In time, these persons will come with brassy, shameless faces, as some homosexuals are now doing, and ask courts and governments to legalize what they have been doing for so long in defiance of the law.. sorry...but you cannot predict the future.

Cedric Moss
08-05-03, - 12:09 PM
You are right...I can't predict the future. But what's your point?

godson
08-05-03, - 01:01 PM
Pastor Moss! I am really bother by this cuz u see anyone calling themseves Apostles , I assume should be a man of God and therefore I respect that person . So sir please dont take this as a negative but instead of digging into the old testament of the bible for answers to evrything, why dont you use some common sense and Think!! The old testament was written in relations to ancient biblical times . and most laws and rules are just not realistic in these days. ( oh I know the word of God is forever and never changes) thats y we have women pastors today, that y we eat shellfish today, thats why scarlet is now an acceptable color for women to wear today, thats y we ffer lamb as sacrafice today( uuum are u getting my point??) Tell me SIR why is it that in the Bahamas we hear NO noise of all these men who commit adultary ? They are seen as real men right? If sin is sin, and you and others see a homosexual person as a sin! and yes I said the person, because whether or not you beleive it , these person are born as homesexuals so that is who they are! HOw come this ONE "sin" is singled out to make all of this fuss about??
Sir I am Gay!! I am a law abiding citizen, I am a christian regardless of men's beleif cuz u see I was created by God and he is the only one I have to answer to. I am a productive member of the Bahamian society, I love all mankind That includes woman :)
and I will defend a child with my life .because my God told me such is the kingdon of heaven. Oh but in private with a consenting adult we express love for each other. Tell me dear Apostle how am I hurting anyone?and why is my private life the business of someone else!! OH and I dont beleive in public dispaly of ANY kind of sexual behavior Gay or straight!! ALL I ask is that I and all other Bahamians be afforded the same constitutional right to live and enjoy equal benefits under the law.Oh and I am also against gay marriage for me. However I wont blow up parliament if the law is pass , because im a law abiding citizen. And equating gay marriage to all of the illegal and ridiculous things that you refer to is very immature, stupid , and darnright rediculous! but to each his own , its your right to say and I will defend that right along with you. ( uuuum what about my rights??) anyway I have had my say , may God richly bless you and give you wisdom to see that many Bahamains are different from you in many different ways, and the courage to accept the same without judgement because God will do that at the appropriate time. ( and boy MANY of us are in for a shock on that day!)PEACE!!

GodSign
08-05-03, - 07:16 PM
well said godson! hey Padre Moss, did you know that statistics show that most serial killers and child molesters are heterosexual? Most murderers and thieves are heterosexual too!:rolleyes:

Cedric Moss
08-06-03, - 07:46 PM
What statistical source are you quoting? Without seeing your statistics, I can agree that numerically heterosexuals would out number homosexuals in the categories you have mentioned simply because the majority of people are heterosexuals. I wonder what the statistics would be if we expressed these offenders as a percentage of their respective populations (heterosexual and homosexual)?

Anyway, how do your statistics relate to the discussion at hand: that Scripture does not support homosexuality in any of its shades and forms?

Cedric Moss
08-06-03, - 08:01 PM
You shared a mouthful and then some. First of all, please refrain from personal attacks and being less than courteous. I am happy to use this forum to have a sincere discussion with you but please do not personally attack persons just because their views differ from yours. Having said that, I will try to identify the pertinent points of your comments (which I have put in quotes and blue font) and respond accordingly.

The Old Testament
“So sir please dont take this as a negative but instead of digging into the old testament of the bible for answers to evrything, why dont you use some common sense and Think!! The old testament was written in relations to ancient biblical times . and most laws and rules are just not realistic in these days. ( oh I know the word of God is forever and never changes) thats y we have women pastors today, that y we eat shellfish today, thats why scarlet is now an acceptable color for women to wear today, thats y we ffer lamb as sacrafice today( uuum are u getting my point??)”

My friend, the only worthwhile, dependable authority that I can speak from is Holy Scripture…all of it. Regarding the Old Testament, it is generally accepted by orthodox Christians that the Old Testament is to be understood and interpreted through the New Testament. And this is why some of the Old Testament practices (like the sacrificial system and ceremonial laws) have been done away and fulfilled through Jesus Christ’s death on the cross and the New Covenant which he established by His shed blood. As it relates to the issue of homosexuality, the New Testament confirms the Old Testament position….in all of its shades and forms homosexuality is a sin.

Other Sexual Sins
“Tell me SIR why is it that in the Bahamas we hear NO noise of all these men who commit adultary ?”

I believe that you are speaking from your personal experience. I say this because I have on numerous occasions in print and on radio talk shows spoken with the same degree of conviction and clarity that all sexual sins (including adultery and fornication) in all of their shades and forms are sin. And I’m not the only one. I have personally heard others say so as well.

You should note, however, that the public discussion is about the possibility of our parliament trying to pass laws to legalize homosexual unions. A discussion was not started on whether homosexuality is wrong. That has been settled ions ago by Scripture so no one was raising that.

You can rest assured that if adulterers and fornicators began to lobby for laws to be passed to legalize their sin you will hear a similar level of outcry. However, it would not be as strong as the outcry against homosexuality and homosexual unions. Why, the reason is that homosexuality is not only sinful according to Scripture, it is unnatural according to nature. Adultery and fornication are sins but they are not contrary to nature.

So this, my friend, is the first reason for current outcry: homosexuals around the world are seeking to have legal endorsement for their deviant, sinful behaviour. Even though homosexuality is a sin, I, like most Christians, believe that homosexuals have the constitutional freedom to engage in homosexuality if that is what they wish to do. However, I do not support the passing of laws to legitimize their sinful unions in any form.

“these person are born as homesexuals so that is who they are”

What dependable evidence do you have to support your view that persons are born as homosexuals? You have none because there is none. All we have is the “findings” of psychologists. I think you know that Psychology is not an exact science. Psychologists simply observe human behaviour (listen to people talk) and make conclusions, postulations and theories. Actually, it is a lot of guess work.

I can accept it if you and others say “it is believed that some persons are born as homosexuals.” I would not debate this modified statement because it would be more worthwhile to consider that the Scripture calls homosexuality sin so even if persons were born in that condition they need to accept those feelings/desires as sin, repent of them and turn away from such behaviour.

“Sir I am Gay!! I am a law abiding citizen, I am a christian regardless of men's beleif cuz u see I was created by God and he is the only one I have to answer to.”

On this point, may I suggest a reading of the book of 1st John in the Bible? John’s letter has a two-fold purpose. First it is to give assurance of salvation to those who are genuinely saved. Second, it is to remove false assurance from those who believe they are saved but are not. In the New Testament epistles, we often read this statement “do not be deceived.” The reason is that we are easily deceived, especially if we trust our feelings above the clear teaching of Scripture. For example, consider the following passage:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
NIV

Your admission that you are a homosexual and your statement that you are a Christian show clearly that you are deceived. I do not say this to condemn you. I say it out of the same concern that I would want others to have for me if I am openly holding a view that Scripture says in black and white is wrong.

“Oh but in private with a consenting adult we express love for each other. Tell me dear Apostle how am I hurting anyone?and why is my private life the business of someone else!!”

The issue here is not whether your sin hurts someone else or whether it is their business. These are questions you need to pose to God. Do your acts of homosexuality grieve and anger Him? Clearly they do because they are contrary to His Word. Is it any of His business? It sure is because He created you and you are answerable and accountable to Him.

“And equating gay marriage to all of the illegal and ridiculous things that you refer to is very immature, stupid , and darnright rediculous!”

This is an example of discourteous remarks that are unnecessarily personal attacks. I can only assume that you missed my point so I will try to restate it differently. All I am saying is that beyond laws that have been passed to state marriage is between a man and a woman, the Bible is the ancient authority on this. The Bible and our laws also prohibit incest, polygamy, bestiality, orgies, prostitution etc. All I am saying is that if using the arguments of constitutional rights and individual freedom arguments, people can remove the prohibition against same sex unions, why can’t they do the same for other unions currently prohibited by the Bible and law?

Here is a case in point. If it is ok for two adult men to marry, why can’t two adult men who are brothers marry? If you say that two adult homosexual brothers can’t be allowed their constitution freedom just like two homosexual men who are strangers, on what basis do you object? You can go down the line and ask the same questions for the being able to deny persons the right to be engage in polygamy, bestiality, orgies, prostitution etc. even though you would support legalizing homosexual unions.

You see my friend all of the laws that prohibit unions other than marriage are moral laws based on the Bible. If you legalize one, on the basis of equal treatment all will have to be legalized when requested. This is the problem we face when we tamper with divine boundaries. Therefore, wisdom dictates that we agree with God…marriage is between a man and a woman and ALL sexual behaviour outside of marriage is sin.

“ALL I ask is that I and all other Bahamians be afforded the same constitutional right to live and enjoy equal benefits under the law.”

What constitutional rights are homosexuals being denied? I’m not aware of any. The desire by some homosexuals to marry is only that…a desire…it is not a right. Marriage is not a constitutional right for same sex persons.

“However I wont blow up parliament if the law is pass , because im a law abiding citizen. but to each his own , its your right to say and I will defend that right along with you.”

I won’t blow up parliament either if they pass a law for homosexual unions. While I fully agree with Bishop Greene’s clear stand against legislation for homosexual unions, I do not agree with the “Guy Fawkes” statement.

Is it really to each His own? No! I don’t have the right to say anything in these matters other than to echo God’s Word. All who are wise will do the same.

“may God richly bless you and give you wisdom to see that many Bahamains are different from you in many different ways, and the courage to accept the same without judgement because God will do that at the appropriate time. ( and boy MANY of us are in for a shock on that day!)PEACE!!”

You are right about people being shocked on that Day. Here is what God’s Word says about His judgement to those who pervert (hetero and homosexual) marriage :

Heb 13:4
4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
NIV

Based on this and other similar passages, the only shock on that day will be to those persons who believe that they can live in violation of the clear teachings of God’s Word like in areas of sexuality, and have confidence to stand before Him on that day. Not only will this be shocking. It will be sad because the Lord will say words to this effect: depart from me you lawless ones into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

My sincere prayer is that you will take heed, repent and turn to Christ and thereby not be apart of those who are eternally shocked, saddened and punished.

I encourage you to see yourself as a blessed man to participate in this forum. Many other homosexuals do not have the opportunity that you do. So take advantage of it, and if there is any way that I can be of personal assistance to you, please feel free to contact me by phone or email. I promise you will find compassion and not condemnation.

Take care, and I wish you well.

Delroy
08-11-03, - 05:06 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself Apostle Moss.

Food for thought dont you think godson? :rolleyes: