God doesn't contradict Himself. This is true. BUT, the Bible did at one point clash with God's will sometimes. Read the Book of Job over again, and let me know when you've found the verse that says 'even angels make mistakes.' Then, read Stephen's last words before they stoned him. Angels brought the Torah and Talmud. Almighty God gave The Decologue. There are somethings in the Torah and Talmud that aren't in The Decologue. Could it be that certain "angels" are the cause of the majority of the confusion present today over God's will? You betcha! (no pun intended.) That's why we needed a "Lamb" to come and fix it.

Truth is discerned by the Spirit of God and not by angels.
The Bible was written by men but God is the Author.
God's word is perfect.

Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

God created Lucifer not Satan.
Lucifer became Satan because of sin.

Here we go with the foot in the mouth again.
Does not The Creator know Past Present and the future??? You already said yes. This is very important here. So


Why did the Creator create Lucifer if the Creator knew Lucifer would turn against the Creator and become Satan?????

God created Lucifer not Satan.
Lucifer became Satan because of sin.

Here we go with the foot in the mouth again.
Does not The Creator know Past Present and the future??? You already said yes. This is very important here. So


Why did the Creator create Lucifer if the Creator knew Lucifer would turn against the Creator and become Satan?????

Believe it or not Vicky but God only sees the good in us. Even now today when He looks at us He see Jesus and thats why His Grace pours out on us. We live each day because of the blood of Jesus on us. If God saw our sins instead of Jesus we would be dead on the spot.

God doesn't own any robots Vicky.
When God created Lucifer originally He saw like the Bible says in Isaiah 14:12:, "son of the morning". The was the name God gave to him.

I am sure you have seen the sun in the morning Vicky and I can tell you that there is noting more beautiful than that. The birds start to sing when it shows it's face.

Hi Guys,

This tread has lost its originally subject ages ago.
I have created a new thread for those who want to continue on the subject of the authenticity of the Bible in the Church Issues section: Click Here (http://www.bahamasissues.com/showthread.php?t=408)

There is also a poll on the subject.

God knows what you are and what you can be.
Hell was created for Satan and his angels, not man. God never intended for
us to go there but all sin needs to be destroyed. We are unique in that
God has given us the freedom to choose what path we want to take in life.
God knows our future but He doesn't make our future, that is our job.
Wow do you see what you are saying here.
The Creator knows I am going to pick up a Coke can and put it in the trash tomorrow.
No matter what happens I am going to pick up a Coke can and put it in the trash. There is no choice there is no way to change this

We all are learning the affects of sin here on earth.
If God wanted to He could destroy Satan as we speak but we must first be restored to His image through Jesus.

To find out what is wrong or what shouldn't be, all we have to do is look
at God's original plan.

God's original plan was clearly laid out in Genesis.
Whatever happened after man sinned was not God's original plan.
So what you are saying is the Creator does not know the future? Or is it that the Creator likes to make plans that are going to fail. Please answer Delroy
Every child born after sin was born in sin including myself.
Being born in sin makes us imperfect in all kinds of way, some visible and some invisible.
Some people are born alcoholics.
Some people are born drug addicts.
Some people are born with mental and psychical problems.
Some are born with violet tendencies.
Some are born premature.
And Yes! Some are born Trans-gendered.
No one in this world was born according to God's original plan.
I wasn't born perfect.
Thank you for that 1 however when most people see me and realize I am born male (So the birth certificate states) (shows on some days when I have been working hard.) They start with the Gay remarks and insults. That is why I stand with my brothers and sisters that are homosexual. They are born that way as well.

Now could you imagine living in a country were lets say green eyed people are outcast and you were born with green eyes. Now you can hide your green eyes and lie to your self and all the people around you but you still have green eyes. Now The law in this country based on faith says you can’t marry someone with green eyes no matter how much you love this person you cannot be with them and live in peace.
Now take everything Christ said and listen to it as a whole statement . Did he not teach that we as human beings should all get along with each other and leave our difference and judging up to the Creator?????

All of us need to be restored back to God's original plan and that can only be done through the healing that comes from Jesus Christ.
Everyone needs to be healed!

I don't need to debate that Homosexually goes against God's original plan.
I know it does!
So was/is building houses with out a railing around the roof. Deuteronomy 22:8

I don't need to debate that Gambling goes against God's original plan.
I know it does!
Again show me the quote in the Bible..

The truth has already won before the debate started.
The hardest battle to win is convincing the harden heart of a man.

Truth is discerned by the Spirit of God and not by angels.
The Bible was written by men but God is the Author.
God's word is perfect.

Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

GOD's Law, yes. The Talmud, no. In the Talmud it stresses that for me to eat Big Macs is a sin. But God's Word says that the Kingdom of God is NOT meat and drink. And Christ Himself said that it's not what goes into a man, but what comes out. Mark 7:14 + 19


Like I said, the mistakes of angels have caused confusion. THINK. Which angel is prominently known for causing confusion?

God's Law is perfect for showing me that I am imperfect and just how imperfect. It is NOT perfect for saving me or anyone. Romans 7: 22-24.

GOD's will is the redemption of those who would be His children, friends and loved-ones. God's law, when placed (heart) and applied properly can aid to that end. Galatians 5:14.

In Romans, Paul talks about Sin taking advantage of The Law.
In Galatians 3 (Please note how that Chapter is started) Paul also discusses the role of GOD's Law and Faith. In Galatians 3:25 there it speaks of that "clash" and what it takes to eradicate the clash. Hebrews 7:19.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (can also be found in Hebrews) speaks of the step process. Upon reading this scripture you see where God is going to MOVE HIS Law (not the Talmud) His law.
Galatians 3:20+21 <<Important.
Revelation 5: 1-6 <<Again Important.
Revelation 4: 11 <<Important.
Revelation 5: 12-13 << Sounds like The Lamb and O LORD Our GOD has something in common...

Now with the old covenant, His law, He gave to Moses in stone (outside the heart of man). Well now, you and I both know that the 'outside-in' transformation does not work.
With Christ, (Who like I said, using parables, made peoples' lives His book) a new covenant was formed- the 'inside-out' transformation.

Now the clash is with GOD's WILL, as it seems to always do with people in general.
Et al: Whether or not you keep the old covenant in preference moreso than the new one because of the strict penalties and discipline that the law demanded set in the old covenant. Like Stephen suggested in Acts 7:51, to have The Holy Spirit is GOD's LAW written on your heart and a desire to fulfill them. That is the new covenant.
Galatians 4:21. Paul agrees and so do I. To live under the "perfect" law will slaughter you. And since Yeshua came to give us life and life more abundantly...
Galatians 5:18 <--Why?
Living Word or The Fatal Word.

I am not a Jew.

But they are rules in the Old Testament. As are the rules you use to outcast homosexuals, the ones I know are not Jews.

Delroy you can’t pick out which laws of the Old Testament you feel are ok to follow and throw out the rest.
Judge not lest you be judged by the same measure you judge others.

Check out Leviticus 19:19 and it's in Deuteronomy as well. Or even Leviticus 11:10 conch crawfish is an abomination.
The Holiness Code is the religious law for the Jew.
YOU ARE NOT A JEW WE ARE NOT JEWS SO STOP USING OLD RELIGIOUS JEWISH LAW BECAUSE AS LONG AS YOU DO I WILL THROW IT BACK IN YOUR AND ANY OTHER PREACHERS/PERSONS FACE.
I have faced off with a number of preachers and Bible pounding so called Christians. I chew them up like gum and say next. They always put their foot in their mouths or avoid the question just as you and Cedric have done here.
I had one preacher say you know your right. But it’s not what the people of my church want to hear. Now that man blew me away.

The old testament was based upon Jesus.
Show me in the Bible where building a nuclear weapon is wrong.
But you and I both know that there is noting good about nuclear weapons.
Nothing wrong in building a nuclear weapon it’s using it that’s wrong, or any thing else that can be used as a weapon.
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. So simple a concept..


There are many scriptures in the Bible that speaks against homosexuality.
Jesus is the Word (John 1:1) like my signature says below.
And since Christ is the Word, whatever the Bible says; He says.
Jesus only says what the Father says and the Holy Spirit a witness of God.

All are One God and what one says, the other is in agreement.

Wow someone do the Heimlich on him he has his foot in his mouth so deep he is choking.

Here we go again the Old Testament and the Holiness Code for the Jews.
Do you really know what
Judge not lest you be judged by the same measure you judge others
Means. Measure means rules.
As long as you don’t live by the Old Testament Laws don’t insist or ask us to.
Did you not hear the one. He with out sin cast the first stone again a simple concept.

The old testament was based upon Jesus.
Show me in the Bible where building a nuclear weapon is wrong.
But you and I both know that there is noting good about nuclear weapons.
Nothing wrong in building a nuclear weapon it’s using it that’s wrong, or any thing else that can be used as a weapon.
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. So simple a concept..


There are many scriptures in the Bible that speaks against homosexuality.
Jesus is the Word (John 1:1) like my signature says below.
And since Christ is the Word, whatever the Bible says; He says.
Jesus only says what the Father says and the Holy Spirit a witness of God.

All are One God and what one says, the other is in agreement.

Wow someone do the Heimlich on him he has his foot in his mouth so deep he is choking.

Here we go again the Old Testament and the Holiness Code for the Jews.
Do you really know what
Judge not lest you be judged by the same measure you judge others
Means. Measure means rules.
As long as you don’t live by the Old Testament Laws don’t insist or ask us to.
Did you not hear the one. He with out sin cast the first stone again a simple concept.



You are not answering my points Vicky.
It's like your on another subject. I never told you that I was perfect. What I am telling you is what the Bible says is wrong.

I am not a Jew.

But they are rules in the Old Testament. As are the rules you use to outcast homosexuals, the ones I know are not Jews.

Delroy you can’t pick out which laws of the Old Testament you feel are ok to follow and throw out the rest.
Judge not lest you be judged by the same measure you judge others.

Check out Leviticus 19:19 and it's in Deuteronomy as well. Or even Leviticus 11:10 conch crawfish is an abomination.
The Holiness Code is the religious law for the Jew.
YOU ARE NOT A JEW WE ARE NOT JEWS SO STOP USING OLD RELIGIOUS JEWISH LAW BECAUSE AS LONG AS YOU DO I WILL THROW IT BACK IN YOUR AND ANY OTHER PREACHERS/PERSONS FACE.
I have faced off with a number of preachers and Bible pounding so called Christians. I chew them up like gum and say next. They always put their foot in their mouths or avoid the question just as you and Cedric have done here.
I had one preacher say you know your right. But it’s not what the people of my church want to hear. Now that man blew me away.


There are allot of preachers who will tell you that your right.
Thats why we have so-called Gay Bishops today.

The truth is Vicky; these are the last days and wrong is now becoming right in the eyes of men. The truth will only be told from the lips of a few who will be persecuted for it.

There were many laws given mostly to the Jews and there were more than ten commandments written. I chose not to place myself under any of them but the Grace that Christ brought which fulfills them all. (Notice that I said fulfill and not erase).

Jesus said in Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
The old law still stand today Vicky.

If you choose to live under the law this is your result:
Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law"
Do you want to be judged by the Law?

If you choose to live under the Grace this is your result:
John 1:17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Living under the Grace that Jesus brings I can be forgiven of my sins without having to sacrifice a lamb.

Read the book of Romans carefully and you might understand the difference between the Law and Grace.

Matthew 10:22
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
I will endureth to the end.
This verse goes both ways
We who are different are hated in Christ name to.

We have no need to apologize for what we didn't commit.
By all means don’t apologize for the mistakes you did not commit. The same way the Christians that committed the atrocities back then felt they were not mistaken. You feel you are not mistaken now. Apologize for not saying how mistaken Christian views were and how you might be just as mistaken.
You go to a Dr he misdiagnoses your aliment you go to the Dr a 2nd time and again he misdiagnoses you
Will you trust his opinion/judgment a 3rd time?

True Christians will never commit any of the acts you accused us of.You are right, a true Christian is not a hypocrite either. You Delroy who wants us to live by the Old Testament but you won’t your self are a hypocrite.

Don't confuse Islam with ChristianityI am not confused here. I am pointing out difference in faith in the Creator.
Now let say faith is a circle. You and Christians like you draw a circles that excludes those that are different. Different faith, different love life or different way of self expression what ever.
However there are those of us that believe in the teachings of Christ when we draw a circle we include all people.
What kind of circle do you think Christ would draw????

You are right, a true Christian is not a hypocrite either. You Delroy who wants us to live by the Old Testament but you won’t your self are a hypocrite.

During this entire conversation did I ever call you any names Vicky?

This shows me that you are at a wall now and your not being logical anymore.

My conversation with you in this thread has ended.

God speed.

You have no understanding of the Trinity and I can't teach you how to.
Only the Holy Spirit can do that and you don't have Him.I do understand the trinity. I don’t know if I believe in it as you do.

I believe in what Christ said is the greatest commandments. Matthew 22 37:40.

God doesn't contradict Himself


The Creator appoints and man is disappointed