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The National Lottery Song – Part 2
By Apostle Cedric Moss

August 28, 2003

Last week, I began commentary on the idea of a national lottery for the Bahamas since it has started to return to the lips of some. I intentionally used satire to expose some of the flawed reasons being “sung” by those who support a national lottery. Today I continue with my satire, but I conclude my commentary…at least for now.

A Closer Look
Last week, I asked the question, “What’s right with gambling and a national lottery in particular?” Since the one word answer is “Nothing,” the lotto choir members refuse to answer and instead sing the dishonest, seductive reasons louder. So let’s take a closer look at what gambling is and see if we can see what’s right about it.

What is gambling? Gambling is a game or activity of chance in which players pay to enter, consciously chancing the loss of their own money in the hope of gaining the money of others with nothing given in return. Is there anything right about this? Is it not greedy and selfish to want to “win” another person’s money or property without giving them fair value for it? Clearly there is nothing right about this.

Behind the Singing
When I hear the lotto choir members sing about how the lotto will fund sports and education, I am forced to ask a reasonable question: “What is the true motive behind the singing?” Is it really a burning desire to give money to sports and education that is giving them energy to sing the lotto song so loud? Or is it that they are motivated by personal greed and a burning desire to have a chance to win the big jackpot that lotteries offer? By way of simple deduction, it is clear…the energy to sing is fuelled by the greed to win and not the desire to fund sports and education.

I wonder how many of those screaming the lotto song have stopped to realize they do not need a lottery to give money to the many accountable sports associations we have in our country? How many have given to the schools their own children attend? I’m sure a few lotto choir members have given to both causes but the vast majority have not. They simply want a chance to win some big money! So the motive behind the singing is selfish greed, not funding needs.

Moral schizophrenia!
I have heard some say that in a referendum, a clear majority of Bahamians will vote for a national lottery. While I pray this prediction is wrong, with much regret and concern I have to concede it seems correct. However, if the majority of Bahamians will vote to bring an activity that fuels greed, hurts the poor, promotes laziness and other worthless outcomes, it would be revealing of our selective morality and moral schizophrenia on a national level. Therefore, if the government does decide to let a referendum determine whether a national lottery comes or not, I suggest they combine it with the constitutional reform referendum. I would further suggest that they put the question about keeping the words “Christian values” in the constitution right before the question for the national lottery. This will help those with poor memories.

Regarding the constitutional reform question, I strongly believe the majority of Bahamians will vote to retain the words “Christian values” in our constitution’s preamble. But if we can say “yes” to retain “Christian values” in the constitution and “yes” to bring a national lottery at the same time, we should make the Guinness Book of World Records for the most morally schizophrenic nation. We would be guilty of national Phariseeism as described by Jesus: ranting and raving about things that really don’t matter and then consciously over looking those that do (see Matthew 23:24).

Now don’t get me wrong on this: I totally support the retention of the words “Christian values” in the preamble of our constitution, and will do everything I can to try to keep them there. And, obviously, I’m totally against a national lottery and gambling in all of its shades and forms. However, our selective morality and moral schizophrenia are most revealing and require that we do some national soul searching.

Salt & Light
If all those in our nation who are called by Christ’s name truly lived what they profess, there would be no concern about the possibility of a national lottery coming. Yes, many who are called by Christ’s name illegally participate in the greedy game of gambling already and can’t wait for a national lottery to come. So the reality is: Instead of being salt, they are causing decay. Instead of being light, they contribute to the darkness. My prayer is that the Church will rise up and truly be the Church, living counter culture to those who walk in the world’s darkness and selfishness.

A New Song
My prayer is that God’s people will resign from the lotto choir and stop singing the national lotto song. And if they do, the volume of that song will decrease. Hopefully the decrease in volume will cause the remaining choir members to select new national songs that we can all sing. One new song I would suggest is the “Flat Tax Song”. No, it does not have the greedy, seductive appeal like the national lotto song but it is a much better song and it will produce much better results. Some of the verses of the “Flat Tax Song” talk about having money for much more than just sports and education and how a flat tax is the fair alternative to customs duties.

Now I know the “Flat Tax Song” is a touchy song so many choir members will not want to sing it for different reasons. The rich members know the words but most will refuse to sing them because they know the result: Everyone (including them) will pay their fair share of taxes. And sadly, the poor members don’t know the words of the “Flat Tax Song”, and they prefer to sing the national lotto song more than the rich do. So how can I get the choir to sing this new song? I guess I’ll have to be patient and teach it to the poor choir members (who actually comprise the largest part of the lotto choir). Perhaps I’ll start next week.

Apostle Cedric Moss serves as Senior Pastor at Kingdom Life World Outreach Centre. Comments and feedback may be directed to: apostle@kingdom-life.org.

Hi Cedric
I am for a lottery. If a poor person wants to chance their last meal to get out of poverty that is their choice not yours or any Christian Council. As to the preamble Christian values if this nation had Christian values we would not have homeless and the amount of poor people.
Now if you want to really help the poor and have the government help the poor encourage the government to make a Church tax. Make the Churches and clergy pay everything they take in leaving them with just enough for a roof over their head and basic food to eat and simple clothing. Then give that money to the poor and we would have no poor of at least the clergy would be just as poor. You clergy /preachers amaze me with your arrogance and greed for wealth and power.
You should truly walk as Christ would walk before you open your mouths.
Would Christ have a fancy home while the poor lived in leaky shacks??


Matthew 23:25

I have noticed 1 thing with all clergy and preachers when you hold up a mirror and can quote out of the Bible as they do and point out to them their hypocrisy they shut up and disappear. Although in the past they would have you burned at the stake to shut you up.

Vickie:

I am responding out of courtesy because I started this thread, but you need to try to be more reasonable in your comments. I'm sure that if you dialogued on this forum in your own name and not an assumed one you would offer a more reasoned response.

Hi Cedric many people know me by this name and other than protection for my family as to my being transgendered I would stand face to face with you and say the same thing. I have done it with other clergy. Give me a way to contact you and a promise that my identity will never be reviled I will be more than happy to sit with you and debate the issues. We could make it a weekend afternoon of it. My wife loves to cook.
My whole family knows I can't stand the church and the greed for which it stands. I did not even go to a church to get married nor did I have a preacher/clergy perform the ceremony if my wife insisted on it we would not be married. Before I would even drop $.01 on the doorstep of a church I would give $100.00 to someone less fortunate than I am.
Show me a church that did not have to be built and one where there is no collection one that accepts me for who I know myself to be and I will sit and listen but my tithe will always go to someone less fortunate than I am.

You want direct comments on the lottery here they are.
Bahamians gamble everyday of their lives. Gambling is taking risk be it in cash or life. They risk death every day they live. Ok I know I am off the path again.

Bahamians have been gamblers since day 1. We spend thousands of dollars on foreign lottery tickets (the poor can buy them as well) we should keep our money home. When we spend money on foreign things we keep foreigners employed not Bahamians. (How about we send our money to foreign churches.)

Rev. Moss you wrote. "What is gambling? Gambling is a game or activity of chance in which players pay to enter, consciously chancing the loss of their own money in the hope of gaining the money of others with nothing given in return. Is there anything right about this? Is it not greedy and selfish to want to "win" another person's money or property without giving them fair value for it? Clearly there is nothing right about this."

You are right if you look at it in that way. But if you put in different words it is not so bad. How about gambling just for the fun of it. I have gambled (not here of course) I set myself about $50.00 and had a good time losing it! I never expected to win big, or for that matter at all. And as for the "other person's money." That person has also consciously entered the game and he to knows the risks.

However, all in all I agree with you. I used to work at the old Hobby Horse Hall many years ago. I watched some people lying flat on the ground screaming to God to give them the "lucky horse number." As you can imagine it never came but they bet their wages anyhow. I seldom saw them win.

Gambling is not good or bad, it just is a past time for some and an obsession for others. I hate to tell others how to live but if it came to a vote I would vote no to a national lottery. The little bit of fun I might get from it is not worth the devastation it can visit on those obsessed. If I want to gamble I will go to the US but I am not in a hurry!

I seem to be vacillating between two opinions here. Perhaps it is because I live in Nassau where, as I am sure you know all to well, we let the tourists gamble but we cannot - a double standard but it is one we have lived with for years!

PS Have you opened a thread on the "flat Tax?" I would enjoy reading that

Originally posted by CG
Rev. Moss you wrote. "What is gambling? Gambling is a game or activity of chance in which players pay to enter, consciously chancing the loss of their own money in the hope of gaining the money of others with nothing given in return. Is there anything right about this? Is it not greedy and selfish to want to "win" another person's money or property without giving them fair value for it? Clearly there is nothing right about this."

You are right if you look at it in that way. But if you put in different words it is not so bad. How about gambling just for the fun of it. I have gambled (not here of course) I set myself about $50.00 and had a good time losing it! I never expected to win big, or for that matter at all. And as for the "other person's money." That person has also consciously entered the game and he to knows the risks.

However, all in all I agree with you. I used to work at the old Hobby Horse Hall many years ago. I watched some people lying flat on the ground screaming to God to give them the "lucky horse number." As you can imagine it never came but they bet their wages anyhow. I seldom saw them win.


Gambling is not good or bad, it just is a past time for some and an obsession for others. I hate to tell others how to live but if it came to a vote I would vote no to a national lottery. The little bit of fun I might get from it is not worth the devastation it can visit on those obsessed. If I want to gamble I will go to the US but I am not in a hurry!

It looks like you are one of these that would put Bahamian framers out of business too. You would rather have your money employ foreigners in their land and keep Bahamians poor. If it is good enough for you in the US it is good enough for you here. If a Bahamian is going to bet his/her wages they did not need Hobby Horse Hall nor do they need a lottery. They make bets on sports, cards and dice games every day right now. How many people lost their jobs when Hobby Horse Hall closed?? How many Bahamians would be employed to run the lottery???? But no we should keep sending our money out of the country.
We should send our money to foreign churches as well

I seem to be vacillating between two opinions here. Perhaps it is because I live in Nassau where, as I am sure you know all to well, we let the tourists gamble but we cannot - a double standard but it is one we have lived with for years!

PS Have you opened a thread on the "flat Tax?" I would enjoy reading that
[How about a thread on church tax

You make some valid points Vicky. But I doubt my $50.00 gambled once every few years in the US will brake the bank here. You are right when you say that Bahamians like to bet but I don't see the point of giving them just one more thing to throw their money away on.

No, I would not like to put Bahamian farmers out of business. I buy Bahamian when the produce in question is up to standards. However, I don't understand your logic here. Are you saying as long as the money stays here it does not matter how it is made - by fair means or foul.

How many people lost their jobs at Hobby Horse Hall? A large number I would imagine (including myself!) not to mention all the horses that were abandoned.

As for my request for a Flat Tax thread I would hope that any flat tax would include the church. But I doubt that would really happen don't you!

Originally posted by CG
You make some valid points Vicky. But I doubt my $50.00 gambled once every few years in the US will brake the bank here. You are right when you say that Bahamians like to bet but I don't see the point of giving them just one more thing to throw their money away on.

Your $50.00, Joeblow down the street and any 1 else’s money that is gambled on foreign soil takes money and employees foreigners. If Bahamians are going to gamble let them gamble here in our country and employ Bahamians.

No, I would not like to put Bahamian farmers out of business. I buy Bahamian when the produce in question is up to standards. However, I don't understand your logic here.
Let me say that was a hit a little south of the belt. My logic is simple 1 dime that is spent on foreign product that can be made grown here is too much the same for employment. You see I am a manufacturer here in the Bahamas. As Bahamians we invest in our own county to produce a product here and create employment and I see it every day where foreign products are given the red carpet. Yeah it might be a bit better in some cases but how will the Bahamian get better unless we support them. How will the farmer learn about the different and new fertilizers unless they can sell their product to finance time/trip for research?

Are you saying as long as the money stays here it does not matter how it is made - by fair means or foul.

If the money can be kept here then we should do all we can to do just that. I am not saying to do anything illegal. By the way I don't gamble I watched my mother blow away thousands of dollars of an inheratance. But it was hers and she is an adult.

How many people lost their jobs at Hobby Horse Hall? A large number I would imagine (including myself!) not to mention all the horses that were abandoned.

As for my request for a Flat Tax thread I would hope that any flat tax would include the church. But I doubt that would really happen don't you!

I am sorry if I hit "south of the belt" that was not my intention but if Bahamians produce a product it must be of a standard that is acceptable to the consumer. You seem to imply that if it is Bahamian, buy it! I do not know what you manufacture, nor do I know the quality. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it is probably very good. Alas, many Bahamian products are less so. We must understand that there is a competitive market out there. Measure up or get out!

However, the subject here is gambling. Something that is really not good for a person or a nation (when taken to extremes, as you have already stated, by personal experience, is not good.)
I hope I did not give the impression that I was a devoted gambler. The last time I gambled was in 1999 so you can hardly call me a hard core player!

How about we take the money we bet and use it to improve the Bahamian products.

Originally posted by CG
I am sorry if I hit "south of the belt" that was not my intention but if Bahamians produce a product it must be of a standard that is acceptable to the consumer. You seem to imply that if it is Bahamian, buy it!

Let me ask you this if your child (if you have a child) wants to start making wigets (just a fictitious product). People in the buy wigets every day but no one every thought of making them but for your child. Now you know your child is very hard working and can make some fine wigets just not any big production. But you like most Bahamians don’t have enough money to set your child up in a full sized production plant. You don’t even have enough collateral to go to the bank with so you help all you can but he must start of small by used equipment. You know its out dated but it the best you can do. It can only make pink and green wigets. But the foreign manufacture can make 10 different colors. Every thing else is the same but for the verity of color. Guess what all the hope dreams and hard work will never pay off enough to buy the machine to make 10 color wigets because Bahamians don’t give a d** if is Bahamian made. They don’t care that your child wiget factory might be able to grow and employ them or their kids. So you are doomed before you make your first wiget. THIS IS WRONG FOR OUR COUNTRY AND US.
I do not know what you manufacture, nor do I know the quality. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it is probably very good. Alas, many Bahamian products are less so. We must understand that there is a competitive market out there. Measure up or get out!

What a joke here is a story that happened to me. I have a cousin that knows I make this product she knows I won’t stop production just to make her 1. She knew months ahead of time that she wanted one time enough to make the one she wanted. But no she bought the one from the merchant. A week later she came in to me because it needed to be fixed. I told her to take it back to the merchant she got it from. Like all merchants they would have to send it back to the factory and she would have to pay the shipping and duty. Well I laughed in her face. She was insulted and I was pleased with my self. You see she know if that was my product I would have given her a new one. She came back a week latter and ordered 1. It actually happens very often that someone or even a merchant has bought a foreign product like I make and it’s a wreck coming out of the package and they want me to fix it. You know what I tell them send it back to where you got it from because I will charge you the price of a new one to fix it. Shipping is so expensive they pay me. .

However, the subject here is gambling.No its about the lottery a form of gambling Something that is really not good for a person or a nation (when taken to extremes, as you have already stated, by personal experience, is not good.)
I hope I did not give the impression that I was a devoted gambler. The last time I gambled was in 1999 so you can hardly call me a hard core player!never thought about it and don't care its your life your money you should be able to do as you please with it

The point here is Bahamians are going to buy lottery tickets anyway. So how much benefit is there now??? It might as well be of benefit to the Bahamas instead of a foreign country. Does the US hire Bahamians to run their lottery no they hire Americans???

How about we take the money we bet and use it to improve the Bahamian products.
I know this is way off this subject but I must say this. If I made the rules here when your child opened their factory don’t care how small. There would be importation policy that no merchant could bring in any wegits unless your kid was sold out. Your kid would give an estimated delivery date and the merchant could import only enough to carry him till that date. No one could import a chicken not even a feather if 1 chicken farmer has chickens to sell. I would have no problems protecting the Bahamian manufacture/farmer. I would close the merchant down if they tried to fraud the system.

Thanks for your reply. I always know I can count on you for a good debate. In part of your reply you said, " ...never thought about it and don't care its your life your money you should be able to do as you please with it." If I can do what I please with my gambling money (such as it is) why can't I use it to buy whatever product I like be it Bahamian or not. If I want blue widgets and they are not made here can't I buy what I want from the US or the UK?

It is true that we must support Bahamian products when they are what we want but if they are not then we are free to buy from wherever! It is also true that "seconds" are often sent to us to buy from the US etc. But they are bought with that understanding, by Bahamian merchants who don't pass that information on to us. So we must be careful.

You also stated "Bahamians don't give a d** if is Bahamian made. They don't care that your child wiget factory might be able to grow and employ them or their kids. So you are doomed before you make your first wiget." The sad truth is that most Bahamian manufactures don't give a d**. Quality is not "number one" The assumption is, "Its Bahamian. Buy from me - no matter what crud I produce!" It is a sad fact that most Bahamians don't know how to play the game! And they give a bad name to those who do.

I said it before and I will say it again. There are standard. If Bahamians can't or will not live up to that, they don't deserve my money - then I am free (by your own words) to spend as I like.

P.S. Would I support my child if he opened a widget factory? Yes, I would but I would make sure he understood the competitive marketplace. If he did not I would encourage him in another direction. If he did not, or I did not, have the money to start up properly then no, I would not support it- there is no point starting up half-baked, as so many Bahamian business do!

Also if a business is doomed to fail, why start!!!!

Just some background information:

Scholars disagree on who started the ancient tradition of lotteries, but there are references in the Bible. In Chapter 26 in the Book of Numbers, Moses used a lottery to award land west of the River Jordan.

1465: Lotteries were held in Belgium to build chapels, almshouses, canals and port facilities.

1612: King James I of England, by royal decree, created a lottery in London. The proceeds were used to aid the first British colony in America - Jamestown, Virginia. Interestingly, Anglican churches held two of three winning tickets for the first draw.

1790 to 1860: Twenty-four of the 33 states financed civic improvements such as courthouses, jails, hospitals, orphanages, and libraries through lotteries.

1856: The Act Concerning Lotteries expressly forbade all types of lotteries in Canada. This Act especially affected the French and Catholic clergy, who for close to a century had financed its "good works" with lottery proceeds.

If it were made known the esoteric concepts behind "Stick and Ball Games" [Which some denominations have been known to keep secret] I'm guessing the 'Church' would stand against it too. Feel free to do so. The problem is, the love of money-yes, I quickly agree to that.

SO why don't we just do away with money all together- t'would indeed be the right step for the True Church. No more "tender" offerings.

To give is to gamble, to live is to gamble, to love is to gamble, to forsake your tenure and give your very life for people who may or may not understand you - is a gamble.
But, nevermind that concept, let's focus on the love of money. Let's burn it. No, wait...I'm confused- Is the problem 'the love of money' or is it 'gambling'...my...head.

OUR NEW SLOGAN
The Commonwealth Of The Bahamas "Throwing out the baby with the bathwater since 19 o' never."

People with such a mentality will have problems. Mammon, if we take it to mean money, is an object concept. One can trade salutations upon meeting and/or exchange emotion in relation. The key is educating the ignorant/stupid/unsound on how to apply these things to their respective lifestyles and lives and not the other way around. The issue here is the inability for some individuals to soundly distinguish between what deserves to be held onto and what doesn't in their lives. Remember Lot's Wife.

Fortunately/Unfortunately, the most "we" as extra entities are able to do in such a situation is give cause for reconsideration-"we" cannot make decisions for other people.

Some people don't enjoy the notion of Gambling (whether by way of lottery or not) and some don't enjoy the notion of a Flat Tax (whether legal or not) either. But still...those four possible routes exist in different communities. Reconsider.

Originally posted by CG
Thanks for your reply. I always know I can count on you for a good debate. Thank you
In part of your reply you said, " ...never thought about it and don't care its your life your money you should be able to do as you please with it." If I can do what I please with my gambling money (such as it is) why can't I use it to buy whatever product I like be it Bahamian or not. If I want blue widgets and they are not made here can't I buy what I want from the US or the UK?
Yes but you should have to pay a hi duty on it.

It is true that we must support Bahamian products when they are what we want but if they are not then we are free to buy from wherever! There must be protection for the Bahamian investor/manufacturer/farmer. I don’t know what you do for a living but how would you feel if your boss imported a foreigner to do your job. It is also true that "seconds" are often sent to us to buy from the US etc. But they are bought with that understanding, by Bahamian merchants who don't pass that information on to us. So we must be careful.

You also stated "Bahamians don't give a d** if is Bahamian made. They don't care that your child wiget factory might be able to grow and employ them or their kids. So you are doomed before you make your first wiget." The sad truth is that most Bahamian manufactures don't give a d**. Quality is not "number one" The assumption is, "Its Bahamian. Buy from me - no matter what crud I produce!" Remember I am a consumer as well. If the product is that bad then it will fail protection or not. If the manufacturer does not improve it will fail even if there is a 100% percent duty. An example Aqua Pure when they first open had a hard go of it but then duty was raised on bottled water. Now they have grown, improved and employ Bahamians. If their water was that bad and duty to import bottled water was 200% Aqua Pure would still fail.
This protection duty has opened the door for others to start bottling water (even more employment).
It is a sad fact that most Bahamians don't know how to play the game! And they give a bad name to those who do. so true


I said it before and I will say it again. There are standard. If Bahamians can't or will not live up to that, they don't deserve my money - then I am free (by your own words) to spend as I like. Quality control is a must with out a doubt even for imports. Merchants must be held accountable for their imports. If a merchant knowing imports seconds/rejects and dose not post an advisory as such should have to pay heavy fines.


P.S. Would I support my child if he opened a widget factory? Yes, I would but I would make sure he understood the competitive marketplace. If he did not I would encourage him in another direction. If he did not, or I did not, have the money to start up properly then no, I would not support it- there is no point starting up half-baked, as so many Bahamian business do!

Also if a business is doomed to fail, why start!!!!

I shall refer you to Mahatma Gandhi and home spun cloth in India. Bahamas for the Bahamian and there will be growingpains for this to happen.[

I can find nothing to challenge you on in your reply. Well done. You make sense.

Thanks CG.
But where is Cedric?
He started this thread and no comments.
Seems as soon as someone make sense and apposes him he disappears.

He started the Bishop Greens comments on Homosexuality and as soon as I opposed him/them they ended the thread and removed it. Delroy ended the 1 on Gay marriage.

Seems to me because they can't shut me up by burning me at the stake they just turn off the thread.