puckett
09-12-03, - 03:53 PM
The Bahamas is currently a monarchy which reecognizes the Queen as the symbolic head of state, do you wish to leave her there or repace her with a president?
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View Full Version : Poll: Should the Bahamas become a republic or remain a monarchy? puckett 09-12-03, - 03:53 PM The Bahamas is currently a monarchy which reecognizes the Queen as the symbolic head of state, do you wish to leave her there or repace her with a president? Delroy 09-12-03, - 04:59 PM The Queen should have been removed from 1973. pevans 09-12-03, - 08:09 PM The monarchy is irrelevent to our Bahamaland's future. We need two tiers of federal government with the prime minister leading two fully elected houses...yes two houses elected: the upper and lower houses. We can't afford to carry a third tier in the form of a figurehead leader for ceremonial reasons. We are a democracy and need to maximise people's participation in the governmental process. At the moment we only get a vote for one house, that is a one third participation in the election of our government: is this democratic?? I think not. It is a system masquerading as a democracy but scratch the surface and the evidence that we are democratic is very shaky indeed. Even the way we vote with a first past the post system and not compulsory means that the candidates are elected with well below 50% of the electors approving of them through the ballot box. So what do we have? A one House elected by vote which rarely, if ever, meets 51% of voter majority in any constituency. WE CAN AND MUST DO BETTER! pevans 09-12-03, - 08:16 PM eeerrr uuummmm how can we answer yes or no to the poll question?? Someone should check the question and feel very red faced in offering it when you can't give an opinion either way. Delroy 09-12-03, - 08:40 PM Its fixed now. pevans 09-12-03, - 11:26 PM Thank you, Delroy. skept 09-13-03, - 12:33 PM I support moving to a republican system, but I think that having a PM leading two houses and, I assume, retaining executive powers as well is a mistake. What we really need is a full seperation of powers to start with, as well as a more democratic system as you said - voting for both houses, etc. Some Suggestions: ------------------ Elected Head of state (president or whatever you want to call it) Cabinet appointed by head of state w/ approval of the houses. No need to be a member of either house to be in cabinet. Head of legislature - PM or whatever you wanna call it. Elected houses System of Recall for all elected officials - we don't like you, get out NOW Term Limit of one consecutive term - now you can concentrate on your job, not next election Legislated Code of Conduct with criminal penalties, including removal from post - don't show up form work, you're fired. Gave that contract to cousin Joe, ya FIRED! Financial Restrictions: either low pay w/ freeze on access to other assets, such as biz interests OR No pay, but you keep you other sources of income - you say you wanna serve, serve, keep your grubby, greedy hands off our taxes. updated voting system - first-past-the-post sucks and favours the established. a good voting system will eliminate people voting for one party or person simply because they disagree less with that candidate and are voting against another party or candidate. Proportionate reperesentation will also be estabilished by a good voting system. If CDR, PLP, FNM and Independents got 10, 30, 30 and 30 percent of the vote respecitively and there were 50 seats then the groups' seats need to be 5, 15, 15, and 15. The basic structure should be simple, but provide balance. Also, a main goal should be eliminating politicians from the picture by providing very little return for such leaching, unproductive, under-representing postules (low pay, term limiting, etc.). People who continuously seek to be elected are people who crave power. These are the worst kind of people we can possibly elect. The monarchy is irrelevent to our Bahamaland's future. We need two tiers of federal government with the prime minister leading two fully elected houses...yes two houses elected: the upper and lower houses. We can't afford to carry a third tier in the form of a figurehead leader for ceremonial reasons. We are a democracy and need to maximise people's participation in the governmental process. At the moment we only get a vote for one house, that is a one third participation in the election of our government: is this democratic?? I think not. It is a system masquerading as a democracy but scratch the surface and the evidence that we are democratic is very shaky indeed. Even the way we vote with a first past the post system and not compulsory means that the candidates are elected with well below 50% of the electors approving of them through the ballot box. So what do we have? A one House elected by vote which rarely, if ever, meets 51% of voter majority in any constituency. WE CAN AND MUST DO BETTER! pevans 09-13-03, - 04:52 PM Some good ideas Skept but the elected President one is, i believe, a mistake. Do we really want elections for a head of state and two houses of parliament? A USA style election for President is something this country cannot afford. These campaigns cost countless millions and realistically only the most wealthy citizens can run for this office. It puts government out of the reach and aspirations of ordinary citizens with limited financial means at their disposal. As well, we should not waste money on these election for President campaigns. We have so many needy people and no welfare system: we couldnt justify millions spent on a one person for president election campaign. BTW we can still be a full member of the Commonwealth of nations under a republic just like India and Trinidad & Tobago. So we get to retain some benefits of membership of a noble alliance like the Commonwealth but can be the masters of our own destiny with a fully elected republc not answerable to anyone but our own citizens. Proportional representation is a great idea, Skept. Let's do it! puckett 09-15-03, - 11:34 AM I started this poll to see public response and to get a public debate started on this issue, however here is my personal views. I am a very proud Bahamian, I would never go under the Union Jack anymore, however, if it ain't broke don't fix it! The monarchy offers a sense of pomp and pagentry at Opening of Parliament and other state functions, that a president could not offer, it is nice to have some ceremonial ties to the Queen, i mean it don't hurt! Great political giants such as Milo Butler and Gerald Cash held the post of Governor-General, why abolish this historic office? Sir Lynden was even in favour of a monarchy and he was the architect of an independent Bahamas! skept 09-15-03, - 02:05 PM I don't believe that a president is a bad thing, not least because the elected dictatoship we have now has not worked to our advantage. Also, with the current system the ordinary citizen is blocked by tougher barriers than money - political intrigue, in-fighting, back-biting and boys' club members determined to keep the status quo. The only choice we have is between people who fought the dirty fight to get to the top of the political chain. Part of constitutional reform must always be aimed at improving democracy - if money will give unfair advantage ( and I agree it will, but at least we'll have better choices than now) then we need to implement changes that will level the playing field - campaign financing rules, caps, etc. - back it all up with jail terms. Poli-tricks should have nothing to do with running a country. My personal preference is a council, not an individual, but the majority of people seem to have an affinity for a single, supreme leader to listen to/ blame depending on their mood, so give them their leader, but not with the power he has now. Of course, all of this talk is pointless unless a majority understands it and politicians so far have done a good job at keeping people in the dark about how their own system works. A PROPER civics education for all citizens should be a constitutional right. Perhaps in the final analysis the human psyche dictates that without an educated populace the best form of government really is a benevolent dictatorship. Too bad such a ting doesn't exist. skept 09-15-03, - 02:19 PM It is broke. We can have our own pomp and pagentry, which I have nothing against, but COULD I HAVE SOME SMOOTH ROADS PLEASE? How about reliable electricity? Choice between more than two lying, cheating politicians who were decided on by two lying, cheating organizations, for PM? How 'bout good audio, scratch that, good programming PERIOD on your ZNS feed, anyone? Then we can dress up too, since we'll have something to celebrate with our corrupt representatives. 'political giants' saw a need for change, what makes us think that need will ever go away? It's evolution. pevans 09-15-03, - 07:05 PM I repeat: This country cannot afford to run expensive presidential election campaigns costing countless millions of dollars. A bi-cameral (two tiers) ELECTED parliament with PM and his executive body being the titular head is both economically viable and democratic. We must avoid becoming another wasteful banana republic: a responsible structure showing the lead in CARICOM is within our grasp. skept 09-15-03, - 08:47 PM Campaigns: these cost candidates money. No tax dollars from me or you or the treasury. This money goes to people in the advertising industry. Those people then buy pop-corn from me. What's the problem?????????????????? Who do you mean when you say "This country" Like I said - CAMPAIGN REFORM - Funding Caps, etc. Democracy + capitalism = I, Mr Citizen can spen my money how I want to tell people who I think is a good person to elect. If you mean that they should put it to good use for social reform, I'd have to agree - but they ain gonna. I repeat: This country cannot afford to run expensive presidential election campaigns costing countless millions of dollars. A bi-cameral (two tiers) ELECTED parliament with PM and his executive body being the titular head is both economically viable and democratic. We must avoid becoming another wasteful banana republic: a responsible structure showing the lead in CARICOM is within our grasp. pevans 09-15-03, - 09:14 PM sheesh....you cant see the government (public) costs to presidential elections. The government must facilitate the election by providing the voting system, supervise and organise the election and waste valuable time dissolving parliament and waiting months for the campaign to end. In addition, the people are subjected to gross waste of rich people's money as many others in our community can hardly make ends meet. Even if the money wouldnt go to the needy anyway, such a public demonstration of money wastage should not be expressed by the rich. The office of president is way beyond the means of most people in terms of cost to mount a successful campaign. It becomes just another hobby of wealthy people to occupy their time in order to build up their egos and amass further wealth if they become successful. We do not need to get onto this treadmill because once we are on we cannot easily get off and would have to choose between only those with enough money to mount campaigns rather than the best person for the job. It limits our options so much and we would have to accept second best if the candidates don't shape up because we would have to choose someone. Let's not go there: there are better more intelligent and egalitarian options. pevans 09-15-03, - 09:26 PM post script to my reply directly above: There's also other governement (taxpayer) expenses such as all the security required during the campaign taking up the valuable time of our police, the life long fat pensions when the president retires for the term of his/her natural life, the perks of travel and permanent security arrangements even after the president retires. In the space of 20 years we could have one president and three retired presidents all costing the taxpayer plenty cash to sustain their lavish lifestyles...and all this to already wealthy people. It is an obscene waste of public money. A presidential system costs the taxpayer plenty, plenty money.....and something we should avoid like da plague! |