i think vicky said something about doing something for the rainbow alliance. but on to the main topic...the bible has gone through many translations and possibly edited to fit the translators purpose but we wont know unless we look at the original documents for ourselves but i do believe that valuable lessons can be derived from the bible. and that makes it real (yet scetchy) to me

...the bible has gone through many translations and possibly edited to fit the translators purpose but we wont know unless we look at the original documents for ourselves .......

Sorry, there are no original documents! They were lost centuries ago - no one is sure just when. Some people say that the Dead Sea Scrolls come as close to being original as we will get.

that's why i said unless...

that's why i said unless...

Sorry! Must have missed something! :D

'Instead of using the bible, a book 'constructed' by the Catholic church many centuries ago, for knowledge and wisdom, why not use our modern means of investigation to gain insights into this life. Why does religion have to be wrapped around everything we endeavour to understand about our nature. The bible is useful in some regards but there are many other books that are far superior in their philosophy. We need to broaden our investigation to include these other books, because the bible does not provide all the answers, especially to the ones we are asking today.

And if we are debating the integrity of those concepts/messages within the bible, then any intrepretation will do because we are using subjective reasoning. This of course makes the question of the bible authenticity moot, seeing that objectivity, reason and the search for empirical evidence have been cast aside for emotional appeals by the writers to this forum.

So...oh wise one do you suggesst we start this more intensive form of investigation? Where do you get all your great insight???? :confused:

So...oh wise one do you suggesst we start this more intensive form of investigation? Where do you get all your great insight???? :confused:

I suspect that you have in your possesion an organ which is situated within a cranium attached to your neck called a Brain. I suggest you start your investigation there. This organ has been proven extremely useful to quite a number of individuals who have utilized its function for this purpose.

Hey guys, i see these aguments tend to get intense, like it's one big battle royal. Look, i know i'm not the wisest person there is, especially in terms of the wisdom of man. I cannot prove to anyone/everyone that God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit exists because Jesus himself couldn't do that. All i know is that i believe in what the bible says because i feel the presence of the Holy One all the time. I cannot prove this to anyone because it is something that one must feel or experience for his/her self. I just hope that we can all be sensible about what we discuss and not play on or ridicule each other's words. Just open your heart and mind and listen to each other's opinions.

Sorry guys, i used the wrong term with the statement to Jesus. I think that Jesus did prove that he is God. What i meant to say is that although he provided all of the evidence at the time, he still couldn't convince everyone of who he was. The evidence was there but as always, we just judge and test everything so much, that the truth that is right in front of us is blinded from our sight.

Good points Brian :tup:

Some people were convinced that Christ was God but still refused to accept Him as God. Read Matthew 12:22-37.

In that chapter, Christ proved to the crowd and the Pharisees who He was by casting out a demon in front of them all. The crowd were convinced and also the Pharisees but because of their pride the Pharisees lied to the people by saying the Jesus had the power of Satan in Him to cast out demons. This was a direct insult to the Spirit of God because they knew now without a doubt who Jesus was and it is a sin that cannot be forgiven. Today we call it the “Unpardonable Sin” which is committed when someone speaks against the Holy Spirit.

WOW "he that seek truth, but not really" how is it that you never answer my questions, and I dont think you want to become insultive with me, you can not handle it...because I already know the truth you seek after! :gi:

I suspect that you have in your possesion an organ which is situated within a cranium attached to your neck called a Brain. I suggest you start your investigation there. This organ has been proven extremely useful to quite a number of individuals who have utilized its function for this purpose.

Truthseeker has a valid point dacy. The area right behind your eyes is also known as your 'temple.' If you get chap with rock in your temple: chances of survival are slim to none.
Consider: Damaged temple = Endangered Life.

WOW "he that seek truth, but not really" how is it that you never answer my questions, and I dont think you want to become insultive with me, you can not handle it...because I already know the truth you seek after! :gi:


I am simply suggesting to you dacy2003 that instead of always quoting scripture why not try quoting what is in your head. Start thinking for yourself. If the info provided is of no use to you discard it. Be reasonable in your counter-arguments or points. Don't jump down my throat because of what I have learned. You don't see CG, o3parietal, Delroy or the others doing it. Stop taking everything so personal. I did not say anything about you that was not true or insulting, now did I?

Although I hold these beliefs of mine dearly, they are not so precious/holy that they can not be disgarded if new and better information is provided. Therein dacy2003 lies the difference between you and me. My search is not over and probably never will be because I am always filled with questions that remain unanswered.

Okay, so you were not calling me ignorant, but do you find it hard to accept that Jesus is in my head and heart, I'm consumed by Him, by the Bible, I believe!

For me there is no other way. I rest y'all :heartbeat

Sorry guys, i used the wrong term with the statement to Jesus. I think that Jesus did prove that he is God. What i meant to say is that although he provided all of the evidence at the time, he still couldn't convince everyone of who he was. The evidence was there but as always, we just judge and test everything so much, that the truth that is right in front of us is blinded from our sight.

Jesus Christ never proved to anyone during his lifetime he was god because if he truly was, none of his disciples who closely followed him throughout his ministry would have abandoned him while he hung there dying on the cross. If god is with you who can be against you should have been there mindset back then at Calvary but instead the disciple fled in fear from the scene. Remember Peter denied him thrice (three times) when it was pointed out he was a follower of Christ. We later had another disciple (Thomas) doubt Christ's resurrection until he saw the proof for himself. Then of course let us not forget Judas Iscariot, for without him the foundation of Christianity may not have been laid if not for that simple kiss... Now tell me if the disciples who supposedly followed Jesus had their doubts about his authenticity why should we who are 2000 years removed also not doubt?

Jesus Christ is used in the gospel stories/fables to relay a message to mankind just as we learn morals/lessons in most childrens fables. Christ is a representation/archtype of what is and was expected of man. His behavior demonstrated to the people at that time that God is not a God of punishment and war as depicted in the Old Testament but one of charitable love and compassion to us humans who fights our batles for us. Man was made in the image of god so therefore his behavior towards his fellowmen should reflect this particular nature of god.

Christianty started out as a mystery religion. A combination of Mithraism, the predominant religion of Jesus' era, far eastern religions and the Hellenistic pagans rituals. The different components which comprised Christianity offered their version of this epic battle in heaven between the gods for the rule of mankind. This is the reason why you find so much simularity between Buddha, Khrisna the pagan savior-gods and Christ. The events depicted in the synoptic gospels which by the way were written years after Paul wrote his epistles, are not real events but shed light on the actions taking place in the spiritual/heavenly realm and did not happen here on earth otherwise no sense can be made of these stories if they are accepted in an historical context. All of Paul letters refer to this spritual battle between good and evil which was taking place in the heaven realm which at that time was believe by the people to be located in orbit around the earth. Paul never meets Jesus in person or for that matter ever quotes Jesus directly but has vision of him. Paul was born in Tsarsus the foundation of Mithraism and its savior-god Mithra and therefore his writings reflect this religious heritage. Jesus was never the founder of christianity because he was a Jew who followed the law but Paul saw a opportunity to galvanized the Jews and the pagans into one easy to understand and do religion by offering them a simpler form of salvation, belief with faith thereby redendering the Jewish system of salvation with nits many rituals to perform and remmeber less important.

The stories of the four gospels are fictional events and not to be mistaken for historical accounts. Jesus Christ was not a real man-god but a symbolic representation by the authors of the gospel to reflect the constant battle in which we are forever engaged, good vs evil.
This is my understanding of the Gospels you may differ which is alright by me.