I won't argue that. Affirmative action was designed for all minorities and women. But that said, it's still available and it puts those minorities in a better position for employment, education, etc. Almost an unfair position, indeed - seeing as in many cases, blacks with less qualifications than some whites are still hired to fill a 'quota' for diversity purposes. My point is, if it's there (whether you agree with it or not), why not take advantage of it instead of placing blame right, left and center?

:tup:

Says who? You? Newt Gingrich? Rush Limbaugh? Thats a broad statement to pronounce without any proof whatsoever. I hear it all the time. Would you find it hard to believe that its not necessary to hire a “less qualified” black American......why? Because there are hundreds of thousands of us who are equally if not more so qualified for the same job. Equally if not more so qualified. Equally if not more so qualified . What you said is just repeating another sound bite often used to fire up the conservative right wingers.... and its not true.
You don’t have to look far to find qualified black people. Just open your eyes.
Black and White are just words. There is no real biological difference between black people and white people (any people). Its simply a social construct we use to define the people as they have been defined in our society. So can you seriously believe its necessary to hire less qualified black people? Why? What would make them less qualified? Affirmative Action was created to bring balance back into play. To help diminish those barriers that have been in place for years and years that were intended to keep black people out. Keep them out not because they are biologically incapable or inferior in anyway. Keep them out because they were socially (racially) deemed as second class citizens. Your assumption that Affirmative Action requires the hiring of “less qualified” black people is a continuation of that unsubtle racist culture that has created the need for LAWS to force the issue.
You both make valid points.Years ago "maybe 20 or so" I used to be involved very heavily in road building. I have seen both the good and bad sides of affirmative action.While I do believe the legislation itself has opened the doors to many in the Union Construction Trades,that never may have had the opportunity to make such money,I have also witnessed the flip side,where on State and Federal jobs warm bodies were hired just to fill quotas,just worthless as workers,skilled or otherwise.I am not speaking of just Blacks but Women as well.All in all I am still for affirmative action,as I feel the good done by it far outweighs the abusers of the system.You see, the results of affirmative action will and have had a snowball effect on the children of those advanced by it,a good result for everybody.

Unions are worse than affirmative action and welfare put together ... :hammer:

You both make valid points.Years ago "maybe 20 or so" I used to be involved very heavily in road building. I have seen both the good and bad sides of affirmative action.While I do believe the legislation itself has opened the doors to many in the Union Construction Trades,that never may have had the opportunity to make such money,I have also witnessed the flip side,where on State and Federal jobs warm bodies were hired just to fill quotas,just worthless as workers,skilled or otherwise.I am not speaking of just Blacks but Women as well.All in all I am still for affirmative action,as I feel the good done by it far outweighs the abusers of the system.You see, the results of affirmative action will and have had a snowball effect on the children of those advanced by it,a good result for everybody.
Sure I believe sum abuse the system,there are always dos that will.Still... affirmative action wa very important in the construction industry.Afta all, most are or were union"brotherhoods" some of dos doors needed to be kicked open! ;)

Sure I believe sum abuse the system,there are always dos that will.Still... affirmative action wa very important in the construction industry.Afta all, most are or were union"brotherhoods" some of dos doors needed to be kicked open! ;)
No arguement. It was an important tool,particularly down south,where it was sorely needed,to get minorities high paying jobs,with good benefits.I understand the inequities of Unions,but consider this;Union carpenters,electricianc and plumbers require apprenticeship and journeyman programs with a lot of training.It isn't just some guy bought a Skil saw and a hammer and called himself a carpenter.

No arguement. It was an important tool,particularly down south,where it was sorely needed,to get minorities high paying jobs,with good benefits.I understand the inequities of Unions,but consider this;Union carpenters,electricianc and plumbers require apprenticeship and journeyman programs with a lot of training.It isn't just some guy bought a Skil saw and a hammer and called himself a carpenter.

Dont need a union for that, just check out the Security Industry, such as Alarms CCTV, etc .. most states require all kinds of paperwork and training, some even require anyone wanting to start their own business, to have worked for a reputable licenced company first for 3-5 years ... with or without a Union you'll always get trunk slammers ..

Sure I believe sum abuse the system,there are always dos that will.Still... affirmative action wa very important in the construction industry.Afta all, most are or were union"brotherhoods" some of dos doors needed to be kicked open! ;)



No arguement. It was an important tool,particularly down south,where it was sorely needed,to get minorities high paying jobs,with good benefits.I understand the inequities of Unions,but consider this;Union carpenters,electricianc and plumbers require apprenticeship and journeyman programs with a lot of training.It isn't just some guy bought a Skil saw and a hammer and called himself a carpenter.


You guys both are making a lot of sense to me. AA is not a perfect fixit but it is certainly helping.