Protesters turned out in the rain on Friday to demonstrate against what they see as unfair treatment by the Bahamian court system in regards to inmates at Fox Hill Prison awaiting extradition to the United States on drug charges.

http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/protest4.jpg

All of the demonstrator wore T-shirts with the words “Grant Bail” written on the back pertaining to the inmates awaiting extradition. They say that the courts are discriminating against these persons in reference to the granting of bail because of United States influence in their cases.

- Do you believe that our court system discriminate because of United States influences?

- Should we "Grant Bail" in cases such as these?

Let us hear your thoughts on this issue.


The following are photos of a list of inmates awaiting extradition to the United States on drug trafficking charges.


http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Samuel-Knowles.jpg
Samuel "Ninety" Knowles (Extradited 2006)

http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Austin_Knowles.JPG http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Lemuel_Knowles.jpg http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/SHAWN-SAUNDERS.JPG http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Nathaniel-Knowles.jpg
(From left: Austin Knowles (Freed 2005), Lemuel Knowles (Freed 2005), Shawn Saunders (Freed 2005), Nathaniel Knowles (Freed 2005)


http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Frank_Cartwright.jpg http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Ian-Bethel.jpg http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Edson-Watson.jpg
(From left: Frank Cartwright (Extradited), Ian Bethel (Ex-Police) (Freed 2005), Edson Watson (Freed 2005)

http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Dwight-Major.jpg http://www.bahamasissues.com/images/news/Keva-Major.jpg
(From left: Dwight and Keva Major)



Photos courtesy of the Nassau Guardian. (http://www.thenassauguardian.net)

they need to go to jail for drug dealing, and if only the US will put them there because of local coruption, then so be it.

its probably just family members or friends (fellow druggies) protesting anyway. Most drug dealers are guilty of even worst crimes such as assault, robbery and murder.

For God sake get those drug dealers to America fast! I agrre about the unfair treatment of our court system, but in the reverse of what they are saying..these drug dealers gets all kind of trial delays and other nonsense, when the Bahamian people needs to have thier families safe from them and their filth that they push! Those that are demonstrating should be closely investigated by the authorities cuz I guarantee u that they are also involve in that crime in someway even if only covring up somethings or profiting from the proceeds! We need to get some law and order in the Bahamas and WEED out all this corruption that allow these people to have time to do this nonsense! Why the Hell is Samuel ninety Knowles and others still in The bahamas frustrating the legal system?? Pure Corruption in our system! Save the children! Get Rid of these criminals!!

For God sake get those drug dealers to America fast! I agrre about the unfair treatment of our court system, but in the reverse of what they are saying..these drug dealers gets all kind of trial delays and other nonsense, when the Bahamian people needs to have thier families safe from them and their filth that they push! Those that are demonstrating should be closely investigated by the authorities cuz I guarantee u that they are also involve in that crime in someway even if only covring up somethings or profiting from the proceeds! We need to get some law and order in the Bahamas and WEED out all this corruption that allow these people to have time to do this nonsense! Why the Hell is Samuel ninety Knowles and others still in The bahamas frustrating the legal system?? Pure Corruption in our system! Save the children! Get Rid of these criminals!!

Stop me if you've heard this one, "College Of The Bahamas was paid for by..."

The Bible says "You shall reap what you sow"

These men should be sent to the USA as soon as possible; and our court system should not EVEN consider granting bail. For what? so they can skip town and disappear to continue their 'nefarious' business dealings!

Consider the type of dealings they have been involved with. According to the police these men are part of the "Bahamian Cartel" a well organized drug dealing ring connected to the one from Medellin Colombia! The worse and most dangerous ring of drugs in the world;connected to our beautiful Bahamas.

Consider the lives, the drug they push; have destroyed and the lives it will continue to destroy. They prey on the young and naive for dealing and for using the drug. They have helped in destroying the frail honest work ethics our young people should have; as the young people of our country prefer to deal drugs for the money rather than work in an honest trade. To them selling drugs represent easy large sums of money; that's all they see.

Cocaine kills both the dealer and the user. The drug dealing benefits are short lived; sooner or later dealers are caught; users end up dead.

We need to pray for our judges and law enforcement; pray that they stand steadfast upholding the law and not give in to bribe and fear.

I think Mrs. Major's father should be ashamed of himself, especially that he is a reverend, is he condoning this lifestyle? how much money have she given him or bought him expensive gifts? its about time their evil doings caught up with them (God is a God of justice). You will be suprised of how many of our prominent leaders are smeared with drug dealing, and are putting on a front for Bahamians, even in the House of Assembly. Even people who we are celebrating as heros,have done their share of damage to our society.Take time to research or find a copy of the book Cocaine Wars, this document gives indepth accounts of drug trading in and through the Bahamas, (oh and they call names). We need to get rid of these people and their lifestyles as fast as we can. Until next time, Peace and love.

It is shameful for the whole nation, that a so called "Referend" demonstrates in front of a Court House to have his daughter, a well known drug dealer's wife, who is also deeply involved in the drug business, be released on bail. Is he missing the money already? These criminals must be extradited as soon as possible, why keep them here in the country, live on people's tax-monies, get special treatment in Fox Hill. Extradite the drug dealers' Lawyers too, they are criminals as well for trying to avoid them being extradited.

Take time to research or find a copy of the book Cocaine Wars, this document gives indepth accounts of drug trading in and through the Bahamas, (oh and they call names). We need to get rid of these people and their lifestyles as fast as we can. Until next time, Peace and love
There ya go. That's a good place to start right there. The Cocaine Wars by Paul Eddy (I think, can't remember.) That should be mandatory for high school curriculum. Hey boney, would you be able to confirm or dispell a rumour for me? Is it true that in days gone by, under certain governance that book was banned from The Bahamas and if you were found with it you were imprisoned or fined?

Seeing the negative trend that has started on this thread I have got to play devil's advocate on this one...

Throughout the centuries it seems as if this little country has always played some part in illicit trade to the United States. Blockade, rum and gun running, pirateering, drug trafficking, money laundering and illegal immigrant smuggling have been (and in the latter of these cases still are) underlying elements in the financial prosperity of this archipelagic nation. So what’s the big fuss about granting certain incarcerated drug dealers bail? :dgi:

There is little doubt that the drug dealers in question would vanish from this country almost instantly upon being released. No creature with a natural desire for freedom likes being locked up in a cage and these persons will probably do anything to make sure that their sense of liberty is maintained; if they ever get a chance to taste it once again. This fact is one that US law enforcement agencies are not willing to chance and the Bahamian government’s hands are tied on the matter of extradition anyway because of our reliance on the US. We can delay, but the matter will probably be ‘resolved’ as soon as we require ‘outside assistance’ on some matter of national importance.

In the eyes of the general public though, the jailing and extradition of drug dealers has always given the false hope that drugs will disappear off the streets. It also makes our law enforcement agencies and politicians look good for a short time, but here is the harsh reality: Where there is demand, supply will always follow. :duh: Just look at how much money drug dealers have made over the years. It can be stated with near absolute certainty that they do not put a gun to anyone’s head and forcibly introduce them to illicit substances. Customers of the drug trade actively search out these dealers on their own. There are no commercials, no signs, no major advertising campaigns, but yet millions of dollars are pumped into the drug trade. This is where the bigger picture comes into focus.

The problem, especially with the various societies on this side of the world, is that people have been programmed not to question the information that their leaders present to them. With advertising campaigns and politicians praising and glorifying the war on drugs, society has demonized ‘illicit’ drug sales and use to such a negative level that it has even been associated with the war on terrorism! Meanwhile in the Netherlands there is no war on drugs. They believe this is a social problem, not a criminal one. And all the evidence suggests that their policy works. Click here for Netherlands drug tactic comparison (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,656121,00.html ) Their legalization and regulation of ‘illicit’ drugs has virtually eliminated the negative aspects associated with drug sales and use and they even have developed better and more effective ways to deal with drug abuse and dependencies.

While the Netherlands are taking a more social approach to the issue of drugs, on this side of the world there has recently been a drastic surge of efforts throughout the hemisphere to squash the major players in the drug trade. Seeing how this has not worked in the past, then why are they using the same outdated methodologies? Perhaps it is only a way of clearing out the competition.

Trends

Canada has passed certain legalization laws on their books and Jamaica’s government is also currently pondering a move in that direction. It is only a matter of time before legalization efforts are increased in the US as well. And that is nothing but money in the bank. When one thinks about it, all that is happening is a form of Prohibition all over again. When the smoke clears though, the US will most likely come out on top because they will have jailed the rest of the competition.

It is true that there are negative effects of illicit drug sales and use, and I can agree that the drug trade has produced some very violent criminals, but when will the leaders on this side of the world tune in to what we should have learned from history? When alcohol was illegal there was pretty much the same type of mentality and violence that allowed it to be successfully smuggled. Not until they began to legalize and regulate it was the problem with alcohol smuggling resolved. In these times the Netherlands are living proof of the success of the legalization method of dealing with ‘illicit’ substances. It’s too bad that because of their anti-drug campaigns, most politicians on this side of the world :chicken: are quite hesitant to retract their stance on the matter for a position that actually works.

Overall, we can rant and rave about the extradition of those that are currently before the courts, but the reality is that new dealers will move into the vacancies after a short while and the cycle will continue. As long as large amounts of money can be made from the ‘illicit’ drug trade, someone who is more daring, more violent and potentially more ruthless will always step up as the ‘new’ drug dealer. The drug enforcement agencies and courts will then do as they are told with these new dealers, but in the end the problem is still not being solved.:hammer:

When alcohol was illegal there was pretty much the same type of mentality and violence that allowed it to be successfully smuggled. Not until they began to legalize and regulate it was the problem with alcohol smuggling resolved.

Isn't alcohol killing more people today than drugs?

Isn't alcohol killing more people today than drugs?

No, the abuse of alcohol kills. Alcohol is a drug, it can heal as well as kill.
Consider the weapon/tool philosophy. I understand Yorick's point of view and agree wholeheartedly. A scapel and a standard issue bowie knife are the same thing, it's use/abuse depends on the wielder.

For ANY problem under the sun to be solved, all you need to have are Education and Enlightenment. This is why I think the reading of The Cocaine Wars should be mandatory high-school reading for Bahamians.
Bahamians in general seem to spurn the very idea of alternative routes in the name of dogma - whether it be political or religious. It seems Bahamians overall, like to follow fashion and be led (following in the footsteps of other countries) and then complain when it doesn't work for The Bahamas.

As Yorick pointed out, subtlely, there is a reason why it's called the drug trade. That's because it's a business, an industry, a trade with barterers at ALL levels.

We have an enviroment, and how we manage/sustain that environment is through industry.
The PM would never EVER say The Bahamas has sex and drug industries. But we do.
The College of The Bahamas was paid for in ______money.

Example: Tourism and Offshore banking are The Bahamas's main industries and let's not kid ourselves here...we ALL know that SOME tourists come here to commit what some of us would deem licentious acts of hedonism; and SOME "bankers" come here to commit what the IRS would consider tax fraud.
These events apparently aren't significant because there are no "Anti-Spring Break/Anti-take your sweetheart to the Bahamas/Anti-You got money?Bring it to the Bahamas and we'll keep it 'safe' for you" commercials on TV.
But when certain religious leaders heard of a "gay cruise ship" coming to Nassau...suddenly The Bahamas has a BIG problem.

And (I'm not stating my opinion by the way) as bad as alotta people think Ninety was/is, he helped keep MANY people children in school, helped maintain many people's utilities when certain organizations would do nonsense with the personal accounts of their customers. [shrugs] Maybe he did it for ulterior motives, maybe out of altruism...
Much like somebody else I know who's passed on...

In the paraphrased words of The Late Sir Lynden Oscar Pindling:

'The US Government knows EXACTLY where the drugs are grown, harvested and sold. If they want to stop it, they could.
Yet, the DEA, the ATA, the CIA and "Any-other-kinda-A" they have can't seem to stop them from bringing the drugs into Miami or other ports of entry.'
But they don't, do they? Why? If they could carpet bomb Iraq, can't they do the same to the Streets of Medellin?

Come on, they're doing the same thing with oil right now.
All they do is play the bully-pimp, using whatever tactic necessary and playing upon any weakness they can to jockey themselves into a better position as superpower. Pindling was no longer welcome to The White House, they considered that a suitable punishment for Pindling. How pathetic they must think we are if they think, 'You can't come to our bulding...' is hurtful.

Can we not discipline the transgressors of Commonwealth Law ourselves, or do we need 'Merica's "help" with that too? Will they "help" 90 like they "helped" Gorman Bannister? What can the US do that The Bahamas can't if we apply ourselves?

And another thing, you mean to tell me they are no caucasian Bahamian drug dealers? Hmmm...
Where's Tommy Maillis when we need him?

You know what this is starting to sound like? (For those married) This is like having a disagreement with your wife and then running to go and tell her Mommy on her.

The facts are that these persons are criminals and should be sent to face the punishment pure and simple! The Netherlands as u quoted , has liberal drug laws and thats their business we have different laws and they are to be adhered to or u face the penalty.For your information, that ninety case is the most important case in Bahamian history cuzz thed outcome of this case will decide whether we become a dodge city or a lawabiding nation that is because most young people see ninty and other drug dealers as heros and if they are allowed to get off, Young people will se this as a sign of invincibilty of drug dealers and u will see a major upsurge in drug trafficing and other crimes in this nation! I am talking from personal experience, cu there are young persons that im counseling now and I use the ninty situation as what happens to you if u deal in drugs...SO can u imagine if he gets free what these young person will think of what im telling them! FOR GOD SAKE I hope these MAJOR CRIMINALS are sent up as an example to our youth!! I have much more that i want to say but i think i should end here.Seeing the negative trend that has started on this thread I have got to play devil's advocate on this one...

Throughout the centuries it seems as if this little country has always played some part in illicit trade to the United States. Blockade, rum and gun running, pirateering, drug trafficking, money laundering and illegal immigrant smuggling have been (and in the latter of these cases still are) underlying elements in the financial prosperity of this archipelagic nation. So what’s the big fuss about granting certain incarcerated drug dealers bail? :dgi:

There is little doubt that the drug dealers in question would vanish from this country almost instantly upon being released. No creature with a natural desire for freedom likes being locked up in a cage and these persons will probably do anything to make sure that their sense of liberty is maintained; if they ever get a chance to taste it once again. This fact is one that US law enforcement agencies are not willing to chance and the Bahamian government’s hands are tied on the matter of extradition anyway because of our reliance on the US. We can delay, but the matter will probably be ‘resolved’ as soon as we require ‘outside assistance’ on some matter of national importance.

In the eyes of the general public though, the jailing and extradition of drug dealers has always given the false hope that drugs will disappear off the streets. It also makes our law enforcement agencies and politicians look good for a short time, but here is the harsh reality: Where there is demand, supply will always follow. :duh: Just look at how much money drug dealers have made over the years. It can be stated with near absolute certainty that they do not put a gun to anyone’s head and forcibly introduce them to illicit substances. Customers of the drug trade actively search out these dealers on their own. There are no commercials, no signs, no major advertising campaigns, but yet millions of dollars are pumped into the drug trade. This is where the bigger picture comes into focus.

The problem, especially with the various societies on this side of the world, is that people have been programmed not to question the information that their leaders present to them. With advertising campaigns and politicians praising and glorifying the war on drugs, society has demonized ‘illicit’ drug sales and use to such a negative level that it has even been associated with the war on terrorism! Meanwhile in the Netherlands there is no war on drugs. They believe this is a social problem, not a criminal one. And all the evidence suggests that their policy works. Click here for Netherlands drug tactic comparison (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,656121,00.html ) Their legalization and regulation of ‘illicit’ drugs has virtually eliminated the negative aspects associated with drug sales and use and they even have developed better and more effective ways to deal with drug abuse and dependencies.

While the Netherlands are taking a more social approach to the issue of drugs, on this side of the world there has recently been a drastic surge of efforts throughout the hemisphere to squash the major players in the drug trade. Seeing how this has not worked in the past, then why are they using the same outdated methodologies? Perhaps it is only a way of clearing out the competition.

Trends

Canada has passed certain legalization laws on their books and Jamaica’s government is also currently pondering a move in that direction. It is only a matter of time before legalization efforts are increased in the US as well. And that is nothing but money in the bank. When one thinks about it, all that is happening is a form of Prohibition all over again. When the smoke clears though, the US will most likely come out on top because they will have jailed the rest of the competition.

It is true that there are negative effects of illicit drug sales and use, and I can agree that the drug trade has produced some very violent criminals, but when will the leaders on this side of the world tune in to what we should have learned from history? When alcohol was illegal there was pretty much the same type of mentality and violence that allowed it to be successfully smuggled. Not until they began to legalize and regulate it was the problem with alcohol smuggling resolved. In these times the Netherlands are living proof of the success of the legalization method of dealing with ‘illicit’ substances. It’s too bad that because of their anti-drug campaigns, most politicians on this side of the world :chicken: are quite hesitant to retract their stance on the matter for a position that actually works.

Overall, we can rant and rave about the extradition of those that are currently before the courts, but the reality is that new dealers will move into the vacancies after a short while and the cycle will continue. As long as large amounts of money can be made from the ‘illicit’ drug trade, someone who is more daring, more violent and potentially more ruthless will always step up as the ‘new’ drug dealer. The drug enforcement agencies and courts will then do as they are told with these new dealers, but in the end the problem is still not being solved.:hammer:

The facts are that these persons are criminals and should be sent to face the punishment pure and simple! The Netherlands as u quoted , has liberal drug laws and thats their business we have different laws and they are to be adhered to or u face the penalty.For your information, that ninety case is the most important case in Bahamian history cuzz thed outcome of this case will decide whether we become a dodge city or a lawabiding nation that is because most young people see ninty and other drug dealers as heros and if they are allowed to get off, Young people will se this as a sign of invincibilty of drug dealers and u will see a major upsurge in drug trafficing and other crimes in this nation! I am talking from personal experience, cu there are young persons that im counseling now and I use the ninty situation as what happens to you if u deal in drugs...SO can u imagine if he gets free what these young person will think of what im telling them! FOR GOD SAKE I hope these MAJOR CRIMINALS are sent up as an example to our youth!! I have much more that i want to say but i think i should end here.
Hmm, looks like someone has missed the moral of the story. No one ever said anything about letting them go scott free! My post spoke about the alternative methodologies involved in the anti-drug process that is currently going on. Again, in case you missed it, no one ever said that they should not be punished or go to jail.

I have had one-on-one experience in counseling at-risk youth in the Hartford, Connecticut area that have been exposed to the evils of drugs. I have been on the front lines dealing with kids that seemingly had no hope, except following their fathers, brothers and uncles in a life of drug dealing and crime. I am fully aware of the drastic nature of the situation on this side of the world. So please, before you make quick, irrational, and seemingly uneducated judgments, read the entire story. Look at the entire picture, this is a social problem, not a criminal one.

Your response is one that is based on the very same mentality that this society has in general. We react adversely and emotionally to change (and automatically reject new opinions), rather than being rationally forward-thinking and pro-active. Yes, the law is the law, but when the process has continuously failed us and the cycle of drug dealing continues to occur over extended periods of time, perhaps we should change the way we deal with the situation in the first place. That was what was being discussed in my post.

Bahamians need to stop being closed-minded when attempting to come up with the solutions to our problems. Not until we are ready to embrace changes in the way we think, will we be able to change the way we live. :tup:

Your response is one that is based on the very same mentality that this society has in general. We react adversely and emotionally to change (and automatically reject new opinions), rather than being rationally forward-thinking and pro-active. Yes, the law is the law, but when the process has continuously failed us and the cycle of drug dealing continues to occur over extended periods of time, perhaps we should change the way we deal with the situation in the first place. That was what was being discussed in my post.

Bahamians need to stop being close-minded when attempting to come up with the solutions to our problems. Not until we are ready to embrace changes in the way we think, will we be able to change the way we live. :tup:

[claps]Thank you, Yorick. "Read Bahamas. Read."
godson, I don't think this is a place for discrediting points-of-view, but rather sharing them. The attitude, you can keep, if that's what drives you to counsel young people. The stupid young people in The Bahamas already seem to have enough of that.

As boney suggested, you OUGHT to read The Cocaine Wars and you'll find that "90" is NOT the biggest or most important case in our history.

That case has come and gone and it's the reason why "90" could've done what he allegedly did.
*It's the reason why then CIA Agent Tommy Maillis left The Bahamas.
*And the reason why Everette Bannister sold The First P. I. Bridge.

I could give names from that book of individuals STILL alive today, walking around free men WITH U.S. Government support and STILL in our Government!! I could give names from that book of individuals who died, lay in State and were buried WITH HONORS in Nassau.
Are they not also criminals that need/needed to be locked up?

US "aid/justice" (whatever you want to call it) is quite fallible, believe it or not. Bahamians need to show how serious THEY are to fixing THEIR problems. Showing that it matters not from what walk of life, what last name you have, the colour of your skin...the end of your business is HERE and NOW.

The soundest method I've seen put to use is over-saturating the market. Legalize it. People don't jook-up one another over water, because anyone can have it and get it. The same MIGHT work with the drug trade. Look at prohibition, look at oil...all these substances people are willing to go to war over. Reconsider. I've also had friends, family members and loved ones who've indulged. I've also watched the commercials, I've seen what drugs, alcohol or smoking does to people stupid enough to abuse it or commit crimes for it...something called "natural selection."
Look at Indian Reservations, how many drug-related crimes take place there? Do the research, then share points of view, not attitude.

Not only the Netherlands but also Germany legalized the possession of drugs in a small quantity (I think it is up to 10 gram of Cocaine per person) for their own personal use. Everybody who is caught with more than 10 gram in his possession is clarified a drug dealer and will be prosecuted. The penalties are drastically and the persons always sentenced to jail.
Germany and the Netherlands legalized the possession of a small amount of drugs to stop the Courts and the Police from being overloaded with so called minor crime activities. The Police and the Courts can now concentrate on the "real" criminals. As a result of the legalisation, the Police and the Courts work more effective, criminals brought to justice faster, the whole process of trials before the Courts is speedy.
Germany goes even further: In every city is a place where Heroin-addicts receive their needles and the Heroin free and as often as they need it. The Junkies are also put on a Methadon-program to assist to get them off the drugs. Since the "heroin-houses" were opened and financed by the Governement, small crimes like shop-braking, stealing, "obtain-criminality" is drastically reduced. It is cheaper for the Government to provide the needles and the Heroin for addicts, than to pay for an overloaded Court System, hire more Policemen etc.
On the other hand the Government knows how many people are addicted to that type of drugs and is able to slowly assist junkies to overcome their ediction.
By providing needles the Government stops the passing-on of AIDS or other illnesses from one junkie to the next.
Nevertheless, drug dealers are vehemently pursued and harshly sentenced, no bail, long-term sentences.