I still don’t get it.

The world is seemingly on a one way trip to oblivion and we just not getting it. G.W. Bush is the leader of the free world and his three biggest advisors are Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld.

I really believe I could stop right there.

That alone is scary enough for me but no it gets worse. The Islamic Fundementalist terrorist campaign is expanding in scope (of violence, range and magnitude). The United States has created a Pandora’s Box in Iraq and has already opened it. It can only go uphill from here? WRONG…. It can and is seemingly headed for a disaster of such magnitude I cant even imagine.

And Iraq aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in North Korea.

And North Korea aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in Iran.

And……”might happen” is happening right now in Israel and Lebannon and threatening now more than ever to blow up and realize a world war like most of us have never experienced in our lifetimes.

…..and notice the silence on the plight of black people worldwide…. The world not particulary interested in the fact that genocide is taking place right now on an escalated scale in Sudan. (there is also war in Somalia and conflict and Uganda).

What about at home. When I was home for Junkanoo they closed bay street so we all had to cut thru the maze of streets (for the chronically lost like myself) in order to get from PI back to Cable Beach. I knew poverty existed but it was so easy to not see when you stick to the main roads. But on this detour the depth of poverty and misery just steps from Bay Street was profound. I was a little shocked and my family is from there.

The continued victims of Katrina. The corruption of the governments and the false promises and dire consequences of the war on drugs.

Black men in jail not at home, not in school, not at work and not able to vote.

HIV and Aids.

Poor people with no health insurance.

Babies with no food.

I could go on all day.

But what does this have to do with this thread? Homophobia? Because this is what the powers that be want you to spend your time and dollars with. They’d rather pander to your more base prejudices than to appease your intellect. Its no mistake that this issue is brought up in the media and beat like a dead horse (gay shoes and lesbian gangs and other stupidness). It has the ability to mislead people and have them worked up about stuff that simply should not matter to them …and its intended to divide communities and people. Especially black people.

“Karl Rove and the right-wing decision makers in the White House are not content to [Gays]. They hope to exploit us, and so they have co-opted conservative black clergy in an unholy alliance to drive a wedge between two progressive constituencies instead of building their own base within these communities. And yet many of our [black] pastors are all-too-willing conspirators in this transparent Republicna ploy to siphon off black votes”.

“If the KKK opposes gay marriage, I would ride with them,” Rev. Gregory Daniels, a Chicago Black minister, said from the pulpit in February."

So what im wondering is?

When yall were down on Rawson Square worrying about what two moral, law abiding adults do in their personal lives to which has no effect on you. When the money basket went out …. Did the pastor/speaker mention any of these other things you should be worrying about?

Did he pass around the basket for Darfur?

:bahamas:

boy that was thought provoking and well stated. makes you think. bravo. that's all for now.

I still don’t get it.
The world is seemingly on a one way trip to oblivion and we just not getting it. G.W. Bush is the leader of the free world and his three biggest advisors are Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld.
I really believe I could stop right there.
That alone is scary enough for me but no it gets worse. The Islamic Fundementalist terrorist campaign is expanding in scope (of violence, range and magnitude). The United States has created a Pandora’s Box in Iraq and has already opened it. It can only go uphill from here? WRONG…. It can and is seemingly headed for a disaster of such magnitude I cant even imagine.
And Iraq aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in North Korea.
And North Korea aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in Iran.
And……”might happen” is happening right now in Israel and Lebannon and threatening now more than ever to blow up and realize a world war like most of us have never experienced in our lifetimes.
…..and notice the silence on the plight of black people worldwide…. The world not particulary interested in the fact that genocide is taking place right now on an escalated scale in Sudan. (there is also war in Somalia and conflict and Uganda).
What about at home. When I was home for Junkanoo they closed bay street so we all had to cut thru the maze of streets (for the chronically lost like myself) in order to get from PI back to Cable Beach. I knew poverty existed but it was so easy to not see when you stick to the main roads. But on this detour the depth of poverty and misery just steps from Bay Street was profound. I was a little shocked my family is from there.
The continued victims of Katrina. The corruption of the governments and the false promises and dire consequences of the war on drugs.
Black men in jail not at home, not in school, not at work and not able to vote.
HIV and Aids.
Poor people with no health insurance.
Babies with no food.
I could go on all day.
But what does this have to do with this thread? Homophobia? Because this is what the powers that be want you to spend your time and dollars with. They’d rather pander to your more base prejudices than to appease your intellect. Its no mistake that this issue is brought up in the media and beat like a dead horse (gay shoes and lesbian gangs and other stupidness). It has the ability to mislead people and have them worked up about stuff that simply should not matter to them …and its intended to divide communities and people. Especially black people.
“Karl Rove and the right-wing decision makers in the White House are not content to [Gays]. They hope to exploit us, and so they have co-opted conservative black clergy in an unholy alliance to drive a wedge between two progressive constituencies instead of building their own base within these communities. And yet many of our [black] pastors are all-too-willing conspirators in this transparent Republicna ploy to siphon off black votes”.
“If the KKK opposes gay marriage, I would ride with them,” Rev. Gregory Daniels, a Chicago Black minister, said from the pulpit in February."
So what im wondering is?
When yall were down on Rawson Square worrying about what two moral, law abiding adults do in their personal lives to which has no effect on you. When the money basket went out …. Did the pastor/speaker mention any of these other things you should be worrying about?
Did he pass around the basket for Darfur?
:bahamas:

I just want to cry...if two people want to have their union that's their business...who am I to judge them. I have my own problems...there are so many children who need loving homes...so much more we need to be concerned about.

...you put so much into perspective...I thank you my brother.

This is not true.

The cause for most of the problems in the world is the lack of leadership. The reason there is a lack of leadership is because the philosophical paradigm has shifted to a glob of existentialistic egocentricity. You don't have to go as far as Darfur to see this -- you can turn on your television. While George Bush is the leader of the free world, he represents a country where the majority of the people are more familiar with Paris Hilton than Martin Luther King.

That is how he became president in the first place.

The anti-homosexual rhetoric is not coming from George Bush -- believe it or not. George Bush is from the most liberal part of America. He does however understand that liberalism is the root cause of degradation in the US. He used the ignorance of liberalism to become president. Congrats to him for that.

But, we are at a point in history where our core values have been destroyed or are being destroyed. The reason for this is understandable. These values have failed a lot of people. What makes it worse, is that individuals take it upon themselves to create definitions and values that are only applicable individualistically. Eventually leading to conflict. This is a mistake. Imagine if we threw out Euclidean Geometry because it failed in application to non-euclidean space?? We didn't. We adapted and modified.

The gut-wrenching reaction to homosexuality is similar -- there is no attempt to adapt and modify. There is only the attempt to destroy. And people react to nihilism with more disgust than they do to genocide. Genocide means destroying others. Nihilism leads to destrustion of everyone.

This is why you and Vicky stumble into so many contradictions in your own arguments. Because your arguments are inherently nihilistic in nature. All individualism is nihilistic at its core.

boy that was thought provoking and well stated. makes you think. bravo. that's all for now.



I just want to cry...if two people want to have their union that's their business...who am I to judge them. I have my own problems...there are so many children who need loving homes...so much more we need to be concerned about.
...you put so much into perspective...I thank you my brother.


Thanks

:bahamas:

This is not true.
The cause for most of the problems in the world is the lack of leadership. The reason there is a lack of leadership is because the phisolophical paradigm has shifted to a glob of existentialistic egocentricity. You don't have to go as far as Darfur to see this -- you can turn on your television. While George Bush is the leader of the free world, he represents a country where the majority of the people are more familiar with Paris Hilton than Martin Luther King.
That is how he became president in the first place.
The anti-homosexual rhetoric is not coming from George Bush -- believe it or not. George Bush is from the most liberal part of America. He does however understand that liberalism is the root cause of degradation in the US. He used the ignorance of liberalism to become president. Congrats to him for that.
But, we are at a point in history where our core values have been destroyed or are being destroyed. The reason for this is understandable. These values have failed a lot of people. What makes it worse, is that individuals take it upon themselves to create definitions and values that are only applicable individualistically. Eventually leading to conflict. This is a mistake. Imagine if we threw out Euclidean Geometry because it failed in application to non-euclidean space?? We didn't. We adapted and modified.
The gut-wrenching reaction to homosexuality is similar -- there is no attempt to adapt and modify. There is only the attempt to destroy. And people react to nihilism with more disgust than they do to genocide. Genocide means destroying others. Nihilism leads to destrustion of everyone.
This is why you and Vicky stumble into so many contradictions in your own arguments. Because your arguments are inherently nihilistic in nature. All individualism is nihilistic at its core.


Maybe you dont get it either.

.....[] ...The gut-wrenching reaction to homosexuality is similar -- there is no attempt to adapt and modify. There is only the attempt to destroy. And people react to nihilism with more disgust than they do to genocide. Genocide means destroying others. Nihilism leads to destrustion of everyone.

This is why you and Vicky stumble into so many contradictions in your own arguments. Because your arguments are inherently nihilistic in nature. All individualism is nihilistic at its core.

Please explain this part. But first note that Vicky and I are two different people with two different sets of beliefs (altho we both fighting for many of the same things) so direct your comments to my "inherently nihilistic" nature?

I still don’t get it.

The world is seemingly on a one way trip to oblivion and we just not getting it. G.W. Bush is the leader of the free world and his three biggest advisors are Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld.

I really believe I could stop right there.

That alone is scary enough for me but no it gets worse. The Islamic Fundementalist terrorist campaign is expanding in scope (of violence, range and magnitude). The United States has created a Pandora’s Box in Iraq and has already opened it. It can only go uphill from here? WRONG…. It can and is seemingly headed for a disaster of such magnitude I cant even imagine.

And Iraq aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in North Korea.

And North Korea aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in Iran.

And……”might happen” is happening right now in Israel and Lebannon and threatening now more than ever to blow up and realize a world war like most of us have never experienced in our lifetimes.

…..and notice the silence on the plight of black people worldwide…. The world not particulary interested in the fact that genocide is taking place right now on an escalated scale in Sudan. (there is also war in Somalia and conflict and Uganda).

What about at home. When I was home for Junkanoo they closed bay street so we all had to cut thru the maze of streets (for the chronically lost like myself) in order to get from PI back to Cable Beach. I knew poverty existed but it was so easy to not see when you stick to the main roads. But on this detour the depth of poverty and misery just steps from Bay Street was profound. I was a little shocked and my family is from there.

The continued victims of Katrina. The corruption of the governments and the false promises and dire consequences of the war on drugs.

Black men in jail not at home, not in school, not at work and not able to vote.

HIV and Aids.

Poor people with no health insurance.

Babies with no food.

I could go on all day.

But what does this have to do with this thread? Homophobia? Because this is what the powers that be want you to spend your time and dollars with. They’d rather pander to your more base prejudices than to appease your intellect. Its no mistake that this issue is brought up in the media and beat like a dead horse (gay shoes and lesbian gangs and other stupidness). It has the ability to mislead people and have them worked up about stuff that simply should not matter to them …and its intended to divide communities and people. Especially black people.

“Karl Rove and the right-wing decision makers in the White House are not content to [Gays]. They hope to exploit us, and so they have co-opted conservative black clergy in an unholy alliance to drive a wedge between two progressive constituencies instead of building their own base within these communities. And yet many of our [black] pastors are all-too-willing conspirators in this transparent Republicna ploy to siphon off black votes”.

“If the KKK opposes gay marriage, I would ride with them,” Rev. Gregory Daniels, a Chicago Black minister, said from the pulpit in February."


So what im wondering is?

When yall were down on Rawson Square worrying about what two moral, law abiding adults do in their personal lives to which has no effect on you. When the money basket went out …. Did the pastor/speaker mention any of these other things you should be worrying about?

Did he pass around the basket for Darfur?

:bahamas:
1.This is not as frightening as the cold war particularly during the Cuban missile/JFK crisis.
2.As long as it is Black folks killing Black folks, other races have a clear conscience and their own problems.
3.Only the fool hearty would build a city on the sea below sea level;it will take a carefully measured long time to rebuild it.
4.If our brothers were taught that education,work and family were the most important things in life,few would be in jail."hangin out on da corner is lookin'fa trouble."
5.Abstinence,safe sex and not sweethearting would put a serious hurt on the rising number of HIV cases.
6.The poor in the States have a medical card and good care.Why not here?
7.Perhaps if all the sissies did a huge amount of community service,it would be impossible for anyone to dislike them?
8.Somehow too many of these threads are sooner or later hijacked by the gay agenda!
9.The most divisivness I see on this site is between regular folks and sissies.

1.This is not as frightening as the cold war particularly during the Cuban missile/JFK crisis.
2.As long as it is Black folks killing Black folks, other races have a clear conscience and their own problems.
3.Only the fool hearty would build a city on the sea below sea level;it will take a carefully measured long time to rebuild it.
4.If our brothers were taught that education,work and family were the most important things in life,few would be in jail."hangin out on da corner is lookin'fa trouble."
5.Abstinence,safe sex and not sweethearting would put a serious hurt on the rising number of HIV cases.
6.The poor in the States have a medical card and good care.Why not here?
7.Perhaps if all the sissies did a huge amount of community service,it would be impossible for anyone to dislike them?
8.Somehow too many of these threads are sooner or later hijacked by the gay agenda!
9.The most divisivness I see on this site is between regular folks and sissies.



1. Arguably…but the point escapes me

2. Why are black people killing each other? You think history and society played any role in that?

3. Im sure black slaves built that city under direction (and whip and gun) of white masters (see also #2)…..but again your point escapes me. ….also Venice,, Amsterdam, changing world environment to which Global Warming (to which Bush denies exist) and other factors are wreaking havoc on the planet. And on….and on….and on...still a non point tho.

4. See #’s 2 & 3.

5. True. So would legitimizing what has existed since the beginning of mankind and when forced to be done in secret and in hiding like sweethearting can result in unsafe practices (but im not here to make that argument (although I believe it)….im here to argue for people to be free to be free to be who they are without government intervention.

6. Not really, but I wish they did…..i wish they had it here also.

7. This convo between you and I don’t count as tutor hours for me!!! Damn!! :D

8. “Agenda” is a code word for some hidden collective conspiracy of which I am not apart of. However I would rather people not hate the person that I am simply because I am. If that’s an agenda….so be it.

9. Not regular folks…..between ”sissies” and bigots. They really hate us….we really hate being hated. (sissies can be regular folk to by the way).

I did answer your question. But I deleted it.

There's something that I have to ask.

If you consider these other issues to be of great importance -- then does that mean that you aren't interested in changing laws that discriminate against homosexuals??

If I understand you correctly, there are much more important issues at stake -- Korea, Iran, Iraq, Darfur -- than for us to be bothered with what homosexuals do. Is that correct?? If so -- are you as concerned with those important issues to neglect issues like homosexual marriage??

I did answer your question. But I deleted it.
There's something that I have to ask.
If you consider these other issues to be of great importance -- then does that mean that you aren't interested in changing laws that discriminate against homosexuals??
If I understand you correctly, there are much more important issues at stake -- Korea, Iran, Iraq, Darfur -- than for us to be bothered with what homosexuals do. Is that correct?? If so -- are you as concerned with those important issues to neglect issues like homosexual marriage??


No i am a homosexual (oooops! :biggie: i think because you just asked and i just told I can now never go to Iraq and kill other people of color for oil because this government doesnt like gays in the military almost as much as they (used too?) not like black people......i was so looking forward to it).

...sorry...i got sidetracked......oh thats right.

I am black (unfortunately no one has to ask this and therefore no need for me to tell and the bigotry and opportunities blocked because of this are far worse than my inability to join the military.....well....today that is....there once was a time ......

but you notice how similar they are?

anyways...the point is these things (all of them) matter to me because of who i am. What i wanna know is what is it about my personal choice of who i love or dont love ....got to do with you?

You didn't answer my question.

But I knew that was going to happen. Just like you posted this foolishness to avoid answering my question in a previous thread.

Usually, you can find out how full of crap people are by just asking a few questions.

But I have to disagree with you. Black and gay are not similar at all. You already pointed out why. The fact that you told me that you were homosexual makes it different from you being black.

What does your personal choice of sexual partner have to do with me?? Nothing. Nothing at all. It has nothing to do with me until you make it my business. It has nothing to do with me until you insult me by telling me that black is similar to homosexual. It has nothing to do with me until you try to change the laws of the land to discriminate in favor of you.

And...you need to learn history..

Homosexual marriage has been legal in most places, including the United States for a long time. Actually, they called it civil union because presidents wisely recognized that marriage was religious by definition and that by sanctioning marriage that they violated the separation of church and state. So everyone had to form a civil union, but because of tradition most still refer to it as marriage. It wasn't until the 1990s when Bill Clinton passed the reformation of marriage act that homosexual marriages were outlawed. They were outlawed because homosexuals discovered a loop in the law. When couples divorced the law usually sided with the female spouse when division of property came about. In a homosexual marriage there is no female spouse. So the division of property became arbitrary.

From that point, men started filing for alimony against their wives. And things just went crazy. So to rectify the situation, Bill Clinton introduced the reformation of marriage act. Which passed by a landslide because the lawsuits were out of control.

So no....

Your choice of partner is not my business.

You made it my business.

Sorry, its called the Defense of Marriage Act. Not the reformation of marriage act.

You didn't answer my question.
But I knew that was going to happen. Just like you posted this foolishness to avoid answering my question in a previous thread.
Usually, you can find out how full of crap people are by just asking a few questions.
But I have to disagree with you. Black and gay are not similar at all. You already pointed out why. The fact that you told me that you were homosexual makes it different from you being black.
What does your personal choice of sexual partner have to do with me?? Nothing. Nothing at all. It has nothing to do with me until you make it my business. It has nothing to do with me until you insult me by telling me that black is similar to homosexual. It has nothing to do with me until you try to change the laws of the land to discriminate in favor of you.
And...you need to learn history..
Homosexual marriage has been legal in most places, including the United States for a long time. Actually, they called it civil union because presidents wisely recognized that marriage was religious by definition and that by sanctioning marriage that they violated the separation of church and state. So everyone had to form a civil union, but because of tradition most still refer to it as marriage. It wasn't until the 1990s when Bill Clinton passed the reformation of marriage act that homosexual marriages were outlawed. They were outlawed because homosexuals discovered a loop in the law. When couples divorced the law usually sided with the female spouse when division of property came about. In a homosexual marriage there is no female spouse. So the division of property became arbitrary.
From that point, men started filing for alimony against their wives. And things just went crazy. So to rectify the situation, Bill Clinton introduced the reformation of marriage act. Which passed by a landslide because the lawsuits were out of control.
So no....
Your choice of partner is not my business.
You made it my business.



Let me be straight (:cool: ) with you Mikki.....(we make jokes also....albeit bad ones). Im not particularly interested in what it is you have to say. Im sorry brudda. You see I tuned you out weeks ago when you said "black people are stupid". Some people arent really interested in having a informative dialogue as much as they are hearing themselves speak. You strike me as the latter. If im wrong....please clarify and i will rethink what i thought i had learned about you.

You asked me: "then does that mean that you aren't interested in changing laws that discriminate against homosexuals??"

i thought i had answered you with this: the point is these things (all of them) matter to me because of who i am. What i wanna know is what is it about my personal choice of who i love or dont love ....got to do with you?.... but on reflection maybe it was a bit cryptic.

So let me make it clear. Yes. I am interested in changing laws that discriminate.

...and I never said being black and gay was similar. I said the bigotry and prejudice against them is.

I made it your business? That cant be......you see its because i already know....and truly dont care what you "The all mighty mikki forbes thinks"
... not one bit. Not at all.

But i do think you are free to believe and free to think as you want. I respect that.

I only have a problem when you try to make what you think the law that requires i think (or just live) the same way.

I think everyone should vote. I think conch snacks should never cost more than 7.00 dollars. I think my cable bill is too darn high.

I think all ignorant or blind (self edited ... no need to get rank)....people should be forced back into school and required to study Math, Science and yes.... The African Diaspora (and more).

See... its only what i think, what i believe.. (my right)....but not a law ....cause if it were....you would be writing me from the computer lab at your new school.

There is a difference.

I still don’t get it.

The world is seemingly on a one way trip to oblivion and we just not getting it. G.W. Bush is the leader of the free world and his three biggest advisors are Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld.

I really believe I could stop right there.

That alone is scary enough for me but no it gets worse. The Islamic Fundementalist terrorist campaign is expanding in scope (of violence, range and magnitude). The United States has created a Pandora’s Box in Iraq and has already opened it. It can only go uphill from here? WRONG…. It can and is seemingly headed for a disaster of such magnitude I cant even imagine.

And Iraq aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in North Korea.

And North Korea aint nothing compared to what could/might/likely will happen in Iran.

And……”might happen” is happening right now in Israel and Lebannon and threatening now more than ever to blow up and realize a world war like most of us have never experienced in our lifetimes.

…..and notice the silence on the plight of black people worldwide…. The world not particulary interested in the fact that genocide is taking place right now on an escalated scale in Sudan. (there is also war in Somalia and conflict and Uganda).

What about at home. When I was home for Junkanoo they closed bay street so we all had to cut thru the maze of streets (for the chronically lost like myself) in order to get from PI back to Cable Beach. I knew poverty existed but it was so easy to not see when you stick to the main roads. But on this detour the depth of poverty and misery just steps from Bay Street was profound. I was a little shocked and my family is from there.

The continued victims of Katrina. The corruption of the governments and the false promises and dire consequences of the war on drugs.

Black men in jail not at home, not in school, not at work and not able to vote.

HIV and Aids.

Poor people with no health insurance.

Babies with no food.

I could go on all day.

But what does this have to do with this thread? Homophobia? Because this is what the powers that be want you to spend your time and dollars with. They’d rather pander to your more base prejudices than to appease your intellect. Its no mistake that this issue is brought up in the media and beat like a dead horse (gay shoes and lesbian gangs and other stupidness). It has the ability to mislead people and have them worked up about stuff that simply should not matter to them …and its intended to divide communities and people. Especially black people.

“Karl Rove and the right-wing decision makers in the White House are not content to [Gays]. They hope to exploit us, and so they have co-opted conservative black clergy in an unholy alliance to drive a wedge between two progressive constituencies instead of building their own base within these communities. And yet many of our [black] pastors are all-too-willing conspirators in this transparent Republicna ploy to siphon off black votes”.

“If the KKK opposes gay marriage, I would ride with them,” Rev. Gregory Daniels, a Chicago Black minister, said from the pulpit in February."

So what im wondering is?

When yall were down on Rawson Square worrying about what two moral, law abiding adults do in their personal lives to which has no effect on you. When the money basket went out …. Did the pastor/speaker mention any of these other things you should be worrying about?

Did he pass around the basket for Darfur?

:bahamas:

Now that is very well said and I am glad people finaly noticed. I have mentioned some of these issues some time ago but not all at once. And each time I was told to stop trying to get people to look in another direction. Any way I am glad people are seeing it now.

This is why you and Vicky stumble into so many contradictions in your own arguments. Because your arguments are inherently nihilistic in nature. All individualism is nihilistic at its core.

Are you saying striving for equal human rights is nihilistic!?! Please try again.

You say I stumble into contradictions in my arguments. Please try and prove that one.