Thanks for your posting. It is a good thing when "new" people join us. They add a new breath of life to old postings. Nice to see!
CG!

Nice to meet you and I must say that I am enjoying your comments/posts.. Thank you very much.. if ya have the time.. read my post in the site lounge... oh, and another thing... is Delroy the one that we 'pick on' in here?? <smiling>

CG! Nice to meet you and I must say that I am enjoying your comments/posts.. Thank you very much..
Nice to meet you too. Thanks for your comments

if ya have the time.. read my post in the site lounge...
I will.

oh, and another thing... is Delroy the one that we 'pick on' in here?? <smiling>
Yea, but he has broad shoulder, he can take it! ;) (And he gives as good as he gets! I respect that.)

LOL, I tend to believe that! Of course, that is said about everyone...respectfully!!!

Wow!!! This is a very interesting thread!!! Thank you gentleman and ladies for your forthright thoughts and I must say that God has Blessed us all with the ability to recognize the differences in each other and the ability to draw from those differences great wisdom, love, and respect of each other. It is like the 'Garden of Life', he planted us all here to create a beautiful bouquet but sometimes there are the 'weeds' that try to come in and destroy us all. I am happy that I can honestly look at a person and love and respect them by the way they project themselves no matter how they dress, talk, look, smell (might hand em some smell good), walk or how they pray to their God. In any culture, race, religion or nation there will be a 'weed' that because of their upbringing or past experience would like to 'throw off' on a similarity/similar person that reminded them of a bad experience.. and try to stereo type us. Those that can 'get over' those times can move on and move upward.. with love and respect for each other as individuals. I was raised in Andros and was the only 'white' girl there but they were my 'family' and I was welcomed and loved and we did not see any differences except.. I was the one with freckles and silky long angel curl hair! It was when I came back to the US that they saw me different...that I talk like a bahamian and didn't agree with the nonsense that they were talkin about! As far as biblical reasoning, interracial marriages have been going on since then and with the permission of God.


Ejluv You also wrote

As far as the Rainbow Alliance goes....I love you each and everyone as individuals but personally do not agree and will not accept that you should have the same rights as heterosexual partners. If it were intended to be that way, then there would not be but one sex. Even with vegetation...there has to be the opposite/availibility for them to be the other 'sex' in order to grow.

Just a reminder bas to what you wrote. With this you say some humans are more equal than others
Oh here is a pont to Christ him self taught of a 3rd sex/gender Mattherw 19 11-12.

Sorry but I have been away for just a bit.

There is a 3rd sex. As all of us know, there are some humans that were born with both genders and it had to be determined which of them was the more prominent one. With this occurence the person involved (and the parents) had to decide which gender was more suitable for the individual. This was a very personal issue and has nothing to do with the facts of being in love with the 'same sex' or being allowed to marry the same sex.
As far as picking out one verse in the bible and trying to use it to condone what you want to do when there are many other verses and chapters that will lead you in the right direction many people do chose to ignore the 'whole' and stick with just what they want to see and believe.
Again, I stand strong in my own belief that IF 'homosexuals' and 'lesbians' were to be that there would have not been but one gender and not two and the third gender (an abnormality).
Again, let me state, that I am one that loves all people and I pray that each one of us finds inner peace and an individual connection with the 'Almighty'. I have spoken with, have dined with, have taken into my home and heart many gay or lesbian people. They know how I feel and we respect each other as individuals but still they know my opinions on 'same sex marriages' and how I feel about them being gay. Some men are more feminine than they should be and some women are more masculine than they should be. Yes, I do believe that there are some men and woman that have a really screwed up hormonal balance and have questions about their own sexual being but I do believe it is more of a psychological issue than anything else. I am not saying that they are nuts or crazy. Many of my gay friends are seriously well adjusted, educated, and productive individuals in society. But, with any other 'disease' (nonfatal) there is a cure and I believe that this is controllable. Just like drugs and alcohol, you have to fight the tendencies! God Bless us all as we pray for each other's inner peace. I do not wish or will ever want us to turn away from each other as individual human beings. As with all of our different cultures,diversities, and religion we are all to love one another and pray for what is right for all of us. Again though, I state, in my heart, mind, and soul I don't believe this was what we were created for. To be with the same sex.

i don't think that gemmanyah's post meant to insinuate in any way that interracial relationships were wrong or bad ... growing up on eleuthera, i played with friends of all races and we had access to each other's homes and families and kitchens and love without colour getting in the way ... but from a very early age we were told, black and white and yellow and red, that the races wouldn't stay independent and strong if they mixed blood.

what the elders were telling us was that the black race, the white race, etc. were all individually strong, and that 'mixing things up' would dilute these individual strengths. the love of my life is a different race than me, and we chose to follow the elders' advice and marry our own kind. we're still great friends, our children are great friends, and we still appreciate the choice we made.

[catty example ... who is the more attractive man? denzel washington, all black ... or cuba gooding jr., heinz 57?]

i kinda see 'separate but equal' as having nothing to do with low self-esteem, and everything to do with race and culture consciousness. without being well and truly aware of our own people's accomplishments, how can we expect to celebrate another's achievements?

ducking now ...

Sorry but I have been away for just a bit.

There is a 3rd sex. As all of us know, there are some humans that were born with both genders and it had to be determined which of them was the more prominent one. With this occurence the person involved (and the parents) had to decide which gender was more suitable for the individual. This was a very personal issue and has nothing to do with the facts of being in love with the 'same sex' or being allowed to marry the same sex.
As far as picking out one verse in the bible and trying to use it to condone what you want to do when there are many other verses and chapters that will lead you in the right direction many people do chose to ignore the 'whole' and stick with just what they want to see and believe.
Again, I stand strong in my own belief that IF 'homosexuals' and 'lesbians' were to be that there would have not been but one gender and not two and the third gender (an abnormality).
Again, let me state, that I am one that loves all people and I pray that each one of us finds inner peace and an individual connection with the 'Almighty'. I have spoken with, have dined with, have taken into my home and heart many gay or lesbian people. They know how I feel and we respect each other as individuals but still they know my opinions on 'same sex marriages' and how I feel about them being gay. Some men are more feminine than they should be and some women are more masculine than they should be. Yes, I do believe that there are some men and woman that have a really screwed up hormonal balance and have questions about their own sexual being but I do believe it is more of a psychological issue than anything else. I am not saying that they are nuts or crazy. Many of my gay friends are seriously well adjusted, educated, and productive individuals in society. But, with any other 'disease' (nonfatal) there is a cure and I believe that this is controllable. Just like drugs and alcohol, you have to fight the tendencies! God Bless us all as we pray for each other's inner peace. I do not wish or will ever want us to turn away from each other as individual human beings. As with all of our different cultures,diversities, and religion we are all to love one another and pray for what is right for all of us. Again though, I state, in my heart, mind, and soul I don't believe this was what we were created for. To be with the same sex.

I will respond to this under topic "Christ acknowledges a third sex"

what the elders were telling us was that the black race, the white race, etc. were all individually strong, and that 'mixing things up' would dilute these individual strengths. the love of my life is a different race than me, and we chose to follow the elders' advice and marry our own kind. we're still great friends, our children are great friends, and we still appreciate the choice we made.

[catty example ... who is the more attractive man? denzel washington, all black ... or cuba gooding jr., heinz 57?]

I dunno, I kinda see it the other way around. If you find love within a person, then race shouldnt matter, love is where you find it. But if it does matter to you then it wouldnt really be 'diluting' the strengths of the races more so than combining.. Diluting would indicate that one would overpower the other or by adding a weaker substance to the mix and that would only happen if YOU allow it to.. If you and your partner are strong willed persons then that will be passed on to your kids.. If you teach them both sides of the fence then that would only help them become strong individuals like their parents with a keen sense of self. If you are a weak person who relents to your partners every whim or vice versa then you would not be providing a good example for your kids.

A mixed race kid should be(in a perfect world) aware of both sides of their culture and should become an even stronger person than that of a purely white or purely black or purely asian or purely whatever background because they would be able to look at both sides of the fence objectively and appreciate people for who they are based on their upbringing which sometimes can be tumultuous depending on where you were raised. Even better would be if black couples, white couples, asians, hispanics, whatever would all just teach their kids to be accepting and free of stereotypes(which alot do these days and you have to appreciate that) instead of instilling gawd awful steretypes and predjudices.

Onto that denzel vs cuba comment.. I never got that is "is he black enough" BS that African American culture perpetuates throughout the world. What more could it take for one to be black besides his genetic makeup, ie skin color? Culture is socialized and if one is brought up in a different society than another that doesnt make him any less black than someone who was raised in "Da hood, wif gunz and crack and baby mamas".

I live in the states now and coming from the Bahamas, I sometimes have to think about my own culture and the way African American culture has influenced us but I refuse to let go of what I learned in the Bahamas. My mother always taught me about equality and never once tried to fill my head with any kind of predjudice. I will not succumb to *some* cultural influences just because we share the same skin color, that definitely doesnt mean we think alike. I was socialized differently so alot of the things here I just dont get. This is not to say I dont like black people in the US or anything of the sort but its just to say I dont really understand every single thing people(in general) do and I shouldnt be expected to just because i'm of the same skin color.

People in the US automatically assume you're African American if you're black and thats not the case. When filling out forms and stuff here I usually leave race blank because thats really nobodys business but I always check to see if they have African American/Black or Black in another category, some places do, some places dont, I check "Other" just for kicks sometimes.

I've actually had an African American get pissed at me once because I told him I dont really feel a deep connection to African American culture(As a kid I distanced myself from that) but I do feel the African background connection and the struggle for civil rights around the world, peaking in the US.. It's always interesting to read about or hear stories about what really went on, amazing actually.. I find it fascinating that all this stuff went on for so long but i'm young so i'm still figuring out things. He told me just because I come from "that little island" I think I can close myself off to the rest of the world and I told him well that "little island" is a whole other country and the rest of the world doesnt not equal America. Just goes to show you how narrow minded some people really are.

I dunno, I kinda see it the other way around. If you find love within a person, then race shouldnt matter, love is where you find it…

…Even better would be if black couples, white couples, asians, hispanics, whatever would all just teach their kids to be accepting and free of stereotypes(which alot do these days and you have to appreciate that) instead of instilling gawd awful stereotypes and predjudices.

…I sometimes have to think about my own culture and the way African American culture has influenced us but I refuse to let go of what I learned in the Bahamas. My mother always taught me about equality and never once tried to fill my head with any kind of predjudice. I will not succumb to *some* cultural influences just because we share the same skin color, that definitely doesnt mean we think alike. I was socialized differently so alot of the things here I just dont get.

…I do feel the African background connection and the struggle for civil rights around the world, peaking in the US.. It's always interesting to read about or hear stories about what really went on, amazing actually.. I find it fascinating that all this stuff went on for so long but i'm young so i'm still figuring out things. He told me just because I come from "that little island" I think I can close myself off to the rest of the world and I told him well that "little island" is a whole other country and the rest of the world does not equal America. Just goes to show you how narrow minded some people really are.

Interesting points. I had a similar opinion years ago, but the reality is that racial acceptance on this side of the world is often a one-way street.

I think that it is great when two persons of different races can meet on common ground and form a pair bond. However, there are often deep-rooted psychological reasons which drive some persons of African descent to find a partner of Caucasian origins – not all the time, mind you, but such is the case quite frequently in island nations, such as ours.

How many times have you overheard a comment of “where he/she find dat black gal/man from? He/she blek eh?” or “chile, you better marry him/her cause he/she got good hair” or worse, “ya better not bring any no-good picky/peasy head black woman/man ‘round here!” Now, isn’t this type of behaviour a means of promoting self-"dilution"? To deny this blatant self-deprecation means that you've been tricked…you've been had…hoodwinked…bamboozled…Run amok. Fe real.

I know personally of a few Caucasian people here in The Bahamas who would NEVER bring a person of African descent to meet their family as their potential spouse. Why, ‘cause their Caucasian father/mother would have a heart attack. On the other hand I also know of black Bahamian mothers who have made sure that their daughters/sons only date “lighter-skinned” persons, so their grandkids could have some “color”. I think situations like the last example are funny because what they actually are trying to achieve is a “lack of color” in the family gene pool. Like I said, it is often the island people who more willingly accept Caucasian standards. We embrace them because we have been bred to, or much rather trained to. The minute we make a stand and embrace something of our own African heritage, we are branded as rebels and troublemakers. Now, can you honestly tell me that something is not wrong with this? <insert suk teet here>

I dare any bank teller or person in a similar business-oriented occupation to “lock” or braid their hair in a natural style. Watch how quickly they will get a letter of reprimand. Better yet, let them show up to work wearing a shirt or outfit made of Androsia. Aren’t we an island nation? Don’t we islanders make the rule of what is acceptable and what is not? Why are our own African-based cultural expressions frowned upon only to be replaced by Caucasian-American or Eurocentric standards?

I’m in the process of letting my hair grow into its natural state. Mind you, I comb it every morning and it is getting “high” enough to actually lock it, but you would not believe the amount of people that mention that I should get a haircut. What? Is my Afro bothering them? Am I, as an island person, supposed to adhere to someone else’s cultural representations of docility? I am going to lock my hair –AGAIN. And this time I am going to record the sometimes narrow-minded reactions of my people, in full detail. I believe the truth needs to be told.

I have gotten jobs based upon telephone interviews, only to watch the employer’s face drop when they met me in person and found out that I am of African descent instead of Caucasian. I just love doing things like that because it exposes them for the hypocrites that they are. “Oh, so you mean to tell me that because of my resume that I faxed and the voice that you heard over the phone, you thought I was Caucasian?” HA!

Anyway, you said that you are still young and that you have a lot to learn. I do not know what level to which you will eventually overcome the societal programming that debases our own every day, but just be prepared, because you will be shocked. Just remember, it’s all about respect for ALL persons of ALL races – and that does include Self-Respect.

It is tough enough to find ones "soul-mate" without society, ones friends or family, cutting out whole sections of peoples just because of the colour of their skin. I know a few inter-racial couples both here (Black and White) and in Canada (White and Indian.) They get on fine. I even have some in my family. More power to them I say! However, when I was a kid that would have been unthinkable! Mixing of the races was a sin, or if not most would have wished it so. I am glad to see that we have grown up - most of us.

to say that God intended for people to stick to their own race makes God seem racist. the Bible says all men are equal.

to say that God intended for people to stick to their own race makes God seem racist. the Bible says all men are equal.

Actually, it does not. It is the American Deceleration of Independence that says that. (Can anyone correct me here?)

The Bible does say that God is no respecter of persons. I guess, in that way you can say we have an equality in his eyes. But then again, we are not all the children of God. The Bible says (paraphrase) "To him that believes, he gives the power to become the Sons of God." This implies that we are not Sons of God by nature. We have to believe first.

Interesting points. I had a similar opinion years ago, but the reality is that racial acceptance on this side of the world is often a one-way street.

I think that it is great when two persons of different races can meet on common ground and form a pair bond. However, there are often deep-rooted psychological reasons which drive some persons of African descent to find a partner of Caucasian origins – not all the time, mind you, but such is the case quite frequently in island nations, such as ours.

And vice versa.

How many times have you overheard a comment of “where he/she find dat black gal/man from? He/she blek eh?” or “chile, you better marry him/her cause he/she got good hair” or worse, “ya better not bring any no-good picky/peasy head black woman/man ‘round here!” Now, isn’t this type of behaviour a means of promoting self-"dilution"? To deny this blatant self-deprecation means that you've been tricked…you've been had…hoodwinked…bamboozled…Run amok. Fe real.

Its just as bad or even worse throughout the rest of the caribbean. But to me, that mindset seems to be "dying out" for a lack of better words. Thinking like that seems to be more prevalent in older generations but then again im going on based on my experiences with people in my age group or near my age group and socioeconomic bracket.. Things could still be the same depending on where you look at it from.

Better yet, let them show up to work wearing a shirt or outfit made of Androsia.

I was in royal bank at palmdale in earlier this month and they were all wearing Androsia, I forgot the occasion but its safe to say im sure they wouldnt reprimand the rebel employee who wanted to wear Androsia the next day or a few days down the line perhaps. And I do know a manager of a Bank of the Bahamas location who also had her hair done up naturally in braids or locks, cant remember how exactly its been a while so it is possible.

Why are our own African-based cultural expressions frowned upon only to be replaced by Caucasian-American or Eurocentric standards?

Wasnt this moreso a religious thing than a "caucasian-american/eurocentric" issue? You know, convert as many of the uncivilized heathens as you can. It evolved into a racial thing but it originated because of religion. Why not look at the very underlying reason why all this occured?

I’m in the process of letting my hair grow into its natural state. Mind you, I comb it every morning and it is getting “high” enough to actually lock it, but you would not believe the amount of people that mention that I should get a haircut.

Well it all depends, do you keep your hairline intact? hehe, im just messing with you.. I say people should be able to express themselves however they feel, especially if their living in an environment where it is or should be culturally acceptable.

Anyway, you said that you are still young and that you have a lot to learn. I do not know what level to which you will eventually overcome the societal programming that debases our own every day, but just be prepared, because you will be shocked. Just remember, it’s all about respect for ALL persons of ALL races – and that does include Self-Respect.

I dunno exactly what you're trying to tell me here, but for some reason I feel slighted. Yes, I do understand what youre saying though, and I do pick up on new things everyday that do shock me. But maybe its just me being young and stupid, but I have always believed that one cannot love anyone else unless they have love for themselves. I have nothing but respect for people who *try* to live their lives in a good manner.. You have to at least make an effort.. I'm hopeful that over time society will change and I know it wont just happen overnight.. And I know I can be the biggest cynical SOB out there, and terribly jaded but still im hopeful and I wont let society dictate to me what is supposed to be acceptable and what isnt when its obviously wrong. I can only hope that my existence provides a good example for people, or just 1 person.. If I can help change someone else's backward thinking then i'm happy.

It is tough enough to find ones "soul-mate" without society, ones friends or family, cutting out whole sections of peoples just because of the colour of their skin.

Exactly, life is so hard why draw up all these lines and boundaries? Maximize your potential (lord I sound like a motivational speaker). I'm open to anything, all *good* experiences are fine by me. That doesnt mean i'll just date ANYONE or befriend anyone.

CG you are correct.

Don't some people claim, because of the Bible (and other religious texts), that they are "chosen". This alludes to an inherent inequality (due to their God-imposed superiority), doesn't it?

In a perfect world we would all be able to get along. Even in a fairly isolated forum like this we have a solid group of people who can see the benefits of and agree with the "men are created equal" statement, but in the outside world it is an entirely different story.

The solution to the problem isn't just saying that all men are created equal. It is actively looking at the deficient areas that exist, developing a plan to counteract the inequalities, confronting the situation openly, and then putting a solid plan into full action. People tend to shy away from the issue of race because it makes them nervous to bring it up or frankly because they are looking at things from a “good” side of the fence, due to family or financial ties that create a bridge for them over the mire of inequality.

Mind you there are many good people in this world who honestly believe in equality, but we cannot deny that there still are beliefs, systems and standards which are deeply ingrained in our global society that promote and enforce a sense of inequality. Then again, inequality is all based upon perception, isn’t it? Only when everyone has the same level of education to be able to analyze the situation for themselves will things really get to the point of equality. Until then though, it is surprising what people will overlook as long as their pockets and bellies are full. Example: On this side of the world no one even sputtered a word when the G8 countries, with their fat pockets, flat out denied the countries of Africa a waiver for repaying the loans that the Africans cannot afford due to the AIDS situation, in addition to the instability within that region. Instead of making that move which would have helped to rebuild Africa, they flat out tabled it. Maybe when they figure out that an instable region only becomes a hotbed for terrorists will they release Africa’s financial burden.

Sorry for my digression, in this world all men may be created as equals, but we all have to admit that they definitely are not treated as such.

Exactly, life is so hard why draw up all these lines and boundaries? Maximize your potential (lord I sound like a motivational speaker). I'm open to anything, all *good* experiences are fine by me. That doesnt mean i'll just date ANYONE or befriend anyone.

You got it. Mind you I agree with you, ya know. All of what I told you in my first response was based upon situations that I have personally experienced. I feel that even though I can traverse the boundaries easily (I lived in the US for about 7 years) many others of my color are not in a position to do the same. Not until I actually looked at the differences in my behavior versus theirs did I see what was really going on. To tell the truth I was channeling "Bryant Gumbell". In more simpler terms, over there I was accepted more than my peers as long as I perfected and enacted Causasian mannerisms. Like they say, "when in Rome..."

I don't agree with the principle that I have to "be" a certain way to gain acceptance. I find it insulting when I am more widely accepted when I act or speak a certain way that is not natural to who I am. Wouldn't you?