Here is 1 thing I disagree with. I do not believe the Creator condemns anyone for ignorance. How can you blame some one for stealing if they have been taught stealing is right their whole lives.


hmmmm :-)

Neil Ellis is a dangerous man...beware of him! A most ungodly soul who is leading others astray with his vitriol from the pulpit. Listening to a screaming whirling dervish on a Sunday (or any other day) is a very ugly way to establish a relationship with God.

Amen

Yep..

Also, notice that most of the churches are in the poorest communities, which so many poor people goto and give their sallries up to, yet never get anything back, they still are living in a ghetto, with crime, run down homes, garbage, and lack of the bare essentials like running water! Something has to be wrong if the church is worth major $$$s but its 'clients' are poor and living in shacks. I just dont know how the 'clients' dont know they are getting suckered. Going to church in the ghetto are not helping them or their communities. None of these churches are helping the Bahamas, and the 'Christian Council' does only damage to the bahamas.

This is not just here in the Bahamas. This is the same case in most all Ghettos in the US, where there are a ton of churches, but where the majority of crime is or stems from. Though you dont see huge expensive churches there like we have here.

Dont stop praying, but stop praying to god to help you out of your financial and community problems, because it will never happen, it has never happened. God helps those who help others, and who can stand on their own 2 legs.

If I had the money like these guys do, Id set up plans not just to help one community, look at the poorest community and start from there. We have our very own shanty town just north of the Independence drive highway, east of the East Street round about. That looks like a village in haiti or what you see on TV in Ethiopia. Then there are communities that get water from pumps on the street, poor kids take buckets to get dirty city water to drink and bath with. They should have a new project every month or so. And if the Christian Council wanted to do good, they would head the project, and get all the churches together to help these communities. Otherwise the CC is useless, because communities and a lot of the Bahamian people are still suffering.

Get rid of alot of the financial problems, tackle the drugs, all in one sweep, then you will decrease the crime. Get jobs for the poor people also, raise salleries, $100 a week is not going to support any person who wants to live a normal life.

Wait a sec...no crime, id be out of business!!!!

but really, if it were like that, less crime, id prefer it, Id just switch jobs.

What types of Community Outreach Programs to any of the churches in Nassau have or on the family islands?

And, if you have them, what are the names of these organizations?

Vicky,

Not really a change of heart at all. It is always been my thoughts and of my heart that the needs of all the people need met. Yes, a building in proportion to the 'churches' congregation should be met but it doesn't mean that it has to be constructed with all the expensive marbles, inlays, finest wood grains, tiles or any other 'attraction getters'! Just a comfortable building for all to meet in from the climate. It doesn't have to have the fanciest people there and it shouldn't need to be categorized as being a 'rich' peoples or 'poor' peoples church but one that is for all that enter through the 'buildings' doors. Yes, a building should be there for the people to enter but the majority of the monies that a congregation spends should be toward outward ministry and for supporting the needs of the poor. Food, clothing, medical assistance, counseling, community awareness, taking a great part of the finances to assist the ones that are showing that they are honestly wanting to improve their lives and gain more self-esteem and educational opportunities. There are so many programs that the churches could have going on a daily basis and also put the monies they take in to improve the environment. People need to be taught about taking responsibilities and ownership of themselves and their surroundings. Just because you are poor doesn't mean that they have to live as a poor person. Instead of sitting around and wasting time, the members of each community could get out there and clean up their areas and with the help of the area churches and civic associations there could be lots of programs going on.
I was a program coordinator for a Drug/Alcohol Outreach Program for an area that was high in domestic abuse and of course high crime area. Many people in the area felt that there was nothing that they could do to help themselves. I worked a day job and would come home in the evenings to cook for my children and would look out my back door and have kids looking in hungry. That was it for me.. I went to the housing authority and also around to each unit in that place to see what the home situation was. Some mothers were neglecting their children and using what government aid they were getting and using it to get high on Crack or drinking it or even taking the food stamps and accepting cash for them so they could go out shopping for themselves! Alot of them sat around on welfare and did not even try to go look for work because they felt that it wasn't worth them getting out and looking for a job and then having to pay for childcare and their rent would increase to do their job status. So, they preferred to let the drug dealers come in and use their homes to sell the dope out of and it was a haven for the drug lords when the homes were built for the children. The playground was infested by drug users and drug dealers who showed no mercy to fighting and if a child was in the way, no big deal.. kill them.
I had enough!!! That is where I lived with my kids and they deserved to have a childhood that was full of fun, love, and security. The churches in the area didn't even try to come into the area because it was so bad!
I started feeding these children and you know, the more I started feeding them the more they came and the more they came the more I continued to feed and gain from them all. I prayed for days of how to approach the parents, the county commissioners, the churches, the schools, the banks, and once I committed myself to finding a solution to the problem I stuck with it. All of these beautiful tiny faces coming to my door with their bowls,cups, spoons were being fed and not only that but they were getting attention and love! We sang, we danced, we learned all together! People started seeing consistency in what was happening. My yard was the safe yard. I would stand watch over my yard and the older kids would help me to do that! I was scared many times that one of those drug dealers would get angry at me but I had to do it for the sake of all those beautiful kids! I took a stand and once I did.. and others saw, they joined in. The Housing Authority asked me if I was ready to have a community center to where we could have organized activities for the tenants of complex and the surrounding area known as Suitcase City! That was the greatest day in all of our lives for now we were going to have lots of things going on! i had telephones to make calls on, I have rooms to hold counseling sessions in, I had rooms to help kids with their homework, I had volunteers coming from all walks of life and so many outlets for the children to learn by. That was my main focus at first. Then, there were the 'other' issues. The drugs, the dealers, the parents that were allowing these things to take presedence over what was really important, their children.
I finally said to myself, what are these women needing? I didn't have to look far. They needed basic needs met. Education, someone to talk to, clothing, resources to better employment transportation help to get to and from work. I brought it to them with the help of the community. I went and knocked on doors and 'begged' for help for the people that were in the same area as these businesses. If they could help make the area in which they had their businesses in, it would cut down on crime. The colleges pitched in by coming in and being tutors and role models for the younger ones. We have Drama , Dance, African Music, Poetry, medical clinic days, parenting classes, and eventually enough tenants became a part and the more that the people within that community banded together the more the drug users and drug dealers moved away.
Yes, it does take a 'church' to work together for the common goals of saving lives and yes, it is good to have that 'building' for prayer and worship but let it be used to also be a place of refuge for those in need. And, each one of us does not have to wait to the other to start.. all we have to do is look inside our selves and what we are willing to do to get the ball rolling! Stand up and do what you can! No, you are not going to win them all and yes, there will be failures but even with failures there are lessons learned.

Another 'Bottom Line', Each one of us has a different gift that we can give and devote to others around us. We all come here and talk about the needs of the community but all this talk is not getting things done. Everyone needs to take a real stance in their own personal lives as to how they are going to live and how they are going to help their fellow man. I have never looked for any rewards here on earth and I take each day as it comes and know that my inner strength will see me through my darkest hours. I know that there is a God that watches over us all but we must ask for and be willing to recieve what there is to be given to us. We cannot sit and wait for it to come, we must get out there and make things happen. I urge all people to re-evaluate their hearts and search deep inside and find what you can contribute to your people and your country as a whole.
Take the monies that you feel that are not being spent properly by the churches, if you know without a doubt that they are not putting it where it needs to be and use it to do something to help the community. Just remember, people do have to want to help themselves or it is to no avail.
But, help those that are there and will stick with the programs.

All of you, please, I did not tell you this to 'toot' my own horn, that is far from what this was all about. Take the message if you would and hopefully use it to help others. So many people these days are out there just worrying about themselves. I worry about me too, but, in order for 'my world' to be better I must worry about those that live in it and around me also!

Very well put ejluv you prove a forest begins with 1 seed.
But I must take you up in reference to what you wrote here. my responce in blue


Another 'Bottom Line', Each one of us has a different gift that we can give and devote to others around us. We all come here and talk about the needs of the community but all this talk is not getting things done. Everyone needs to take a real stance in their own personal lives as to how they are going to live and how they are going to help their fellow man. Even if we are different like GLBT or should we keep on lying? There must be equality for all or no one is equal. It can't be just about the church, religion is a choice. So should people only be compassionate to those that are Christian only? I have never looked for any rewards here on earth and I take each day as it comes and know that my inner strength will see me through my darkest hours. I know that there is a God that watches over us all but we must ask for and be willing to recieve what there is to be given to us. We cannot sit and wait for it to come, we must get out there and make things happen. I urge all people to re-evaluate their hearts and search deep inside and find what you can contribute to your people and your country as a whole.
Even if your people hate you because you will not live a lie to please their ideals. Even if your people treat you less than human because your faith is not theirs. Even if your county has laws that dictate who you can have a legal union with. (As in legal rights to the person you want to share your life with. (For lack of a better word marriage Keep marriage in the church but give legal accommodation to same sex couples.)
Equality for all or no one is equal.

Very well put ejluv you prove a forest begins with 1 seed.
But I must take you up in reference to what you wrote here. my responce in blue


Even if we are different like GLBT or should we keep on lying? There must be equality for all or no one is equal. It can't be just about the church, religion is a choice. So should people only be compassionate to those that are Christian only? Whether you want to admit it or not, the entire world is based on some sort of religious beliefs. There may be different teachings but all of it goes back to (1) God! Since all of us are human and have a different way of explaining things or showing examples things get misconstrued. A total example of "Words get in the way." I pray that ACTIONS will show through as compassionate acts of kindness. I may not agree with a person's lifestyle but would never cause physical harm or intentionally say something to cause emotional distress. In my own quest to be as much like "I BELIEVE" that I am guided to be, I have to go with that and follow it as such. Vicky, I seriously feel that this issue is not just with people of the Christian faith, it lies more embedded than that. There are more than just Christians that speak out about gay unions. There are people that claim they have no religion that speak out because of the fact that they feel that WHOEVER the creator was of this place we call home that it is morally and ethically wrong! As far as being compassionate??? We are to be compassionate towards every soul that breathes. We are to nuture them, we are to console them, we are to do our best to show them a better way and understanding of life. Saying that doesn't mean that we are to give into what they do when all of our mind, body, and soul feels that it is wrong. In talking to so many gays/lesbians over the last 15 years, they are still searching for truths, they are still searching for their own souls, the majority are still lost. Many of them are emotionally and mentally embalanced due to the fact they are still unsure of their placement with themselves. Many of them have come to me stating they have wanted to commit suicide because they do not know what they are doing. Many of them have said that there is a part of them that don't feel that is proper to be the way that they are. They know that there is something wrong inside of them but because that physical and emotional satisfaction that they get from being with the same sex they are afraid to give it up. I look at them in astonishment! They are giving in for mere satisfaction which many times (and you know it is true) is a one night or definately short love affair. So, you asked, should gays keep on lying? No, they shouldn't keep on lying and they should be honest with their own selves first! There are many reasons why a person is drawn to another person and have a great relationship with them but there are limits and borders that you do not cross. I being a female and respecting of myself find temptations sometimes have to be dealt with. Loneliness, need of the touch of another person sometimes can get to you but when you know that it is wrong for you to give into a weakness for just a moment in time you find something else to focus on. That is when I search deeper inside of me and pull out the strengths that I know that I have within me to not give into any of those temptations. I have found myself in certain battles within trying to weigh out the pros and cons, trying to justify my desires, trying to tell myself that it is ok, trying to bend the laws of God and man...for just a moment in time but then I grab hold to what is the basis of my life and know that I am above allowing myself to destroy my own morals, values, and character.
Even if your people hate you because you will not live a lie to please their ideals. Even if your people treat you less than human because your faith is not theirs. Now to this, I think I took care of or tried to answer that above.
Even if your county has laws that dictate who you can have a legal union with. (As in legal rights to the person you want to share your life with. (For lack of a better word marriage Keep marriage in the church but give legal accommodation to same sex couples.)Equality for all or no one is equal.
Let us forget about the marriage union between gays/lesbians. Let's talk about legal issues here.
The government, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and I am sure if I tried at another time I could name more..but they are the ones that really have all the power on this issue.
I would like to see 'people' be it siblings, child/parent, two best friends that have lost their spouses and due to finances and friendship have decided to co-habitate, be legally protected. Everyone should be equal in this matter. There are some companies to date that have given benefits to partners(same sex and non-married man/woman) but when it comes to for instance my daughter and I sharing a home and our finances together take care of each other, we are not included in the definitive way as the laws were passed for 'Partners"! Anyone that shows that they are putting their finances together should be covered under this bill.

Vicky, bottom line, I love you, you are in my thoughts and in my prayers and I wish for you and others that you will find peace. I am not perfect, far from it and I am no better of a person than you. We all have our own individual faults and only YOU personally and I personally can deal with our OWN selves through what ever struggles we encounter. Just know, as a fellow human being and through my own personal relationship with my Creator that he is not speaking of hate but of love.

Let us forget about the marriage union between gays/lesbians. Let's talk about legal issues here.
The government, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and I am sure if I tried at another time I could name more..but they are the ones that really have all the power on this issue.
I would like to see 'people' be it siblings, child/parent, two best friends that have lost their spouses and due to finances and friendship have decided to co-habitate, be legally protected. Everyone should be equal in this matter. There are some companies to date that have given benefits to partners(same sex and non-married man/woman) but when it comes to for instance my daughter and I sharing a home and our finances together take care of each other, we are not included in the definitive way as the laws were passed for 'Partners"! Anyone that shows that they are putting their finances together should be covered under this bill.

Thank you for the above EJluv you make my point. Marriage can stay in the church and between man and woman. (Personally as it should be however if the only provision for GLBT is the word marriage then that’s what I fight for as there must be something). If 2 people want to live together join there financial status then should have provisions for this, Its called civil union. Its a single document registering the to people as a couple living together with all the rights as if married. (As in your case you and your daughter.)
What the couple does behind closed doors is no ones business.


Vicky, bottom line, I love you, you are in my thoughts and in my prayers and I wish for you and others that you will find peace. I am not perfect, far from it and I am no better of a person than you. We all have our own individual faults and only YOU personally and I personally can deal with our OWN selves through what ever struggles we encounter. Just know, as a fellow human being and through my own personal relationship with my Creator that he is not speaking of hate but of love.

EJluv I am at peace I shead the pain and guilt when I was 36 years old. However I am not left in peace. My wife and our children worry everyday as to who will attack. The other night my wife and I went to the movie and walking in the parking lot holding hands we heard someone say something very rude so we let go hands and went into mall. You see my apperance is fem.
Maybe one day we all will just see human beings.

Let us forget about the marriage union between gays/lesbians. Let's talk about legal issues here.
The government, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and I am sure if I tried at another time I could name more..but they are the ones that really have all the power on this issue.
I would like to see 'people' be it siblings, child/parent, two best friends that have lost their spouses and due to finances and friendship have decided to co-habitate, be legally protected. Everyone should be equal in this matter. There are some companies to date that have given benefits to partners(same sex and non-married man/woman) but when it comes to for instance my daughter and I sharing a home and our finances together take care of each other, we are not included in the definitive way as the laws were passed for 'Partners"! Anyone that shows that they are putting their finances together should be covered under this bill.

Vicky, bottom line, I love you, you are in my thoughts and in my prayers and I wish for you and others that you will find peace. I am not perfect, far from it and I am no better of a person than you. We all have our own individual faults and only YOU personally and I personally can deal with our OWN selves through what ever struggles we encounter. Just know, as a fellow human being and through my own personal relationship with my Creator that he is not speaking of hate but of love.


Hi Ejluv, some of this is Sooooooo Good! I believe everything about this advice and consolation and support you have given Vicky is as good as it could ever be! I tried to answer this this morning, but the system somehow malfunctioned and I had to go out. Seems like much of your words are straight out of the Holy Bible, or should BE there!

I just hope and pray that this kind of prayers and encouragement and support would help to give gays/lesbians the healing and deliverance they desire.

Great Demos

Hi Ejluv, some of this is Sooooooo Good! I believe everything about this advice and consolation and support you have given Vicky is as good as it could ever be! I tried to answer this this morning, but the system somehow malfunctioned and I had to go out. Seems like much of your words are straight out of the Holy Bible, or should BE there!

I just hope and pray that this kind of prayers and encouragement and support would help to give gays/lesbians the healing and deliverance they desire.

Great Demos
Hi Great Demos you and Ejluv need to pray for society to wake up and realize we are humans as well.
What sort of healing and deliverance do you have in mind? Healing to make me like you or healing for you to accept me as an equal human being and equal Bahamian?
Deliverance from what the ignorance promoted by religious leaders that fill their pockets by promoting this ignorance and hate. Make people afraid and they fill the church with people and the money rolls in.

I pray for you all; that you find truth, kindness and an understanding The Creator created it all us to. May you stop being deceived into thinking those of us that are different are less equal less than human.

Hi Great Demos you and Ejluv need to pray for society to wake up and realize we are humans as well.
What sort of healing and deliverance do you have in mind? Healing to make me like you or healing for you to accept me as an equal human being and equal Bahamian?
Deliverance from what the ignorance promoted by religious leaders that fill their pockets by promoting this ignorance and hate. Make people afraid and they fill the church with people and the money rolls in.

I pray for you all; that you find truth, kindness and an understanding The Creator created it all us to. May you stop being deceived into thinking those of us that are different are less equal less than human.


Vicky, all I could say is that you seem to be totally sure and convinced that EVERYBODY in the world and in the universe HATES you! AND I AM SURE THIS IS NOT, REPEAT, NOT, SO!!!!!!! :heartbeat

Vicky, all I could say is that you seem to be totally sure and convinced that EVERYBODY in the world and in the universe HATES you! AND I AM SURE THIS IS NOT, REPEAT, NOT, SO!!!!!!! :heartbeat
I know not everyone hates me but they hate that I am different and others that are different.
My wife and I are celebrating 16 years of marriage today. As we snuggled in bed this morning we talked as we do many times. She said (I might not get the conversation word for word but you should understand it.) Wife: You know in all the years we have been together we have not had any real issues. You are not a drunk. You don't do drugs. You don't fool around. You are always there when I need you. You work hard for our family. Vicky: Yes there is an issue, me being a freak. Wife: If you are a freak then I am a freak in love with you. It’s the rest of the world that are freaks because they don't understand God made you for me. The freaks are the ones that don't see difference as just different not less than. I said you and I have not had any issues I did not say you I and the rest of the world.
She went on to say if I knew then what I know now about you I would say I do again. I would just wish we lived in a different place and time when you could be my bride as well.

My honey is the best.

I know not everyone hates me but they hate that I am different and others that are different.
My wife and I are celebrating 16 years of marriage today. As we snuggled in bed this morning we talked as we do many times. She said (I might not get the conversation word for word but you should understand it.) Wife: You know in all the years we have been together we have not had any real issues. You are not a drunk. You don't do drugs. You don't fool around. You are always there when I need you. You work hard for our family. Vicky: Yes there is an issue, me being a freak. Wife: If you are a freak then I am a freak in love with you. It’s the rest of the world that are freaks because they don't understand God made you for me. The freaks are the ones that don't see difference as just different not less than. I said you and I have not had any issues I did not say you I and the rest of the world.
She went on to say if I knew then what I know now about you I would say I do again. I would just wish we lived in a different place and time when you could be my bride as well.

My honey is the best.

Happy Anniversary!

Yep..

Also, notice that most of the churches are in the poorest communities, which so many poor people goto and give their sallries up to, yet never get anything back, they still are living in a ghetto, with crime, run down homes, garbage, and lack of the bare essentials like running water! Something has to be wrong if the church is worth major $$$s but its 'clients' are poor and living in shacks. I just dont know how the 'clients' dont know they are getting suckered. Going to church in the ghetto are not helping them or their communities. None of these churches are helping the Bahamas, and the 'Christian Council' does only damage to the bahamas.

This is not just here in the Bahamas. This is the same case in most all Ghettos in the US, where there are a ton of churches, but where the majority of crime is or stems from. Though you dont see huge expensive churches there like we have here.

Dont stop praying, but stop praying to god to help you out of your financial and community problems, because it will never happen, it has never happened. God helps those who help others, and who can stand on their own 2 legs.

If I had the money like these guys do, Id set up plans not just to help one community, look at the poorest community and start from there. We have our very own shanty town just north of the Independence drive highway, east of the East Street round about. That looks like a village in haiti or what you see on TV in Ethiopia. Then there are communities that get water from pumps on the street, poor kids take buckets to get dirty city water to drink and bath with. They should have a new project every month or so. And if the Christian Council wanted to do good, they would head the project, and get all the churches together to help these communities. Otherwise the CC is useless, because communities and a lot of the Bahamian people are still suffering.


I could not agree more ....

I hardly go to any church for this very reason, I would rather give money
to the homeless, and let them buy drugs or food - or pay the bums to wash my car or landscape the yard. I know it won't help them change their lives into something better, but giving it to the church does not make any sense.

This is what I would like to see from all churches ...
- a soup house for the hungry
- monetary support/food/private transport for the elderly
- a descent library for our citizens to learn
- monetary help for poor persons who can't pay their bills,
not the ones with huge houses and lexus cars, the really poor.
- a section of low cost homes can probably be easily negotiated from the government

and i can add much more.

instead of expanding your church build something useful for the community, and you will have tons of persons coming to your church.

am not even going there........i ain't being no judge ah no rev chile.....i scared....God going to deal with dat......lol :angel:

I could not agree more ....

I hardly go to any church for this very reason, I would rather give money
to the homeless, and let them buy drugs or food - or pay the bums to wash my car or landscape the yard. I know it won't help them change their lives into something better, but giving it to the church does not make any sense.

This is what I would like to see from all churches ...
- a soup house for the hungry
- monetary support/food/private transport for the elderly
- a descent library for our citizens to learn
- monetary help for poor persons who can't pay their bills,
not the ones with huge houses and lexus cars, the really poor.
- a section of low cost homes can probably be easily negotiated from the government

and i can add much more.

instead of expanding your church build something useful for the community, and you will have tons of persons coming to your church.


Very well said. Why don't we do something threw a group of us at bahamasissues. I don't have alot of money but I know I can help with something else besides the Rainbow Alliance.
Lets put our money/minds/and labour ability together and help some people.