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bahamianpride
01-31-07, - 02:22 PM
Stealing a Piece of the Pie
By Helen Klonaris
http://www.thenassauguardian.com/editorial/306786254833333.php


Dear Beloved Community

Night has fallen in these parts and I am sitting in a chair at my kitchen table thinking of what it is I want to write to you. Looking out the glass sliding door onto this city that is my home away from home, I am thinking about how grateful I am for technology that allows me to hear you, feel you, from so many miles away. I am grateful to be able to speak to my friend and co-conspirator Erin Greene across the miles and hear of the work she is doing speaking and writing as a gay Bahamian woman, a tie-wearing woman who tells it like it is and keeps telling it so no one within earshot will be tempted to forget that gays and lesbians and bisexuals and transgender people exist in the Bahamas, no matter what the churches say.

She tells me that wearing ties gets her a lot of attention. I mean to say that people have a need to look twice when she comes walking. It is possible they look twice because she is a handsome woman, and bears herself with dignity and confidence. But I will admit, the tie does add a slight twist. They are striking ties. And she is a striking woman. I have seen the way men look at her, and those ties: a mix of amusement; bemusement; fear; a now-hold-on-a-minute kind of indignation; a wait, now, what-is-this-eyes-squinting look; a well-I'll-be-damned look... you get the picture.

I have to say, I get a kind of satisfaction from the array of looks and responses she's received. I suppose it is the trickster in me that gets excited when the order of things is shaken, disturbed, rearranged. It's exciting when what we're all used to just up and changes its own self. Know what I mean? When the borders guarding places of power are transgressed.

And what we are used to, in this case, is men wearing the ties. Not all men, Erin reminds me. There are men who wear ties who go to work as accountants and lawyers and doctors and are versed in the art of tying a good knot, not too tight, not too loose, the front of the tie longer than the back. And, there are men who don't wear ties, who wear tee-shirts, polo-shirts, shirts with gold chains hanging from their necks instead of ties. Men who work on construction sites, bus tables, run jet ski operations.

"A tie is a symbol of status and only men are allowed to wear it. Only certain men. If you have a job where you wear a tie, you have status, you're a white collar worker not a blue collar worker, like a construction worker... and, men who wear ties to work have the option of not wearing ties, they can remove it and still own that status, but construction workers don't have that option." And neither, for the most part, do women, or, do they?

Not everyone Erin meets while wearing ties is averse to tie wearing women. "Sometimes," Erin tells me, "you can sense that they are all for it, that they don't necessarily feel uncomfortable." She tells me about a man who looked at her and said, "Tie eh? I never had a problem with it... Wear your tie man!" Then, as an aside, she says thoughtfully, "but he is a socialist, and has a totally different perspective." Others look at her and are "scowling, obviously uncomfortable," while others "take me for a man.... despite everything else that says I'm not. It's as though they are saying 'You must be a man, because only men wear ties.'

That reminds me of a writer who says that male is the 'default gender' when it comes to things gendered. Meaning that when we look at people, we look at them first to see if they are male, and then, if they are not male. If they are not male, they must be female. A tie signifies male. A tie signifies power associated with a particular class of male gender. For a woman to wear a tie, well, it's a little like trespassing; a little like stealing a piece of the pie, eating it, then walking around with pie filling smugly stuck to the corners of one's mouth; it's a little like stealing fire from the gods and then passing it around for everyone to use... sort of.

You'd have to be a trickster yourself to appreciate the value of such transgressions. It is the trickster's role to turn things upside down, inside out, just to remind us that traditions were once transgressions, the way things are now is likely to change, and, if the power is over here, very likely, soon it will be over there...

"Tricksters," writes Wickipedia, "can be cunning or foolish or both; they are often funny even when considered sacred or performing important cultural tasks. An example of this is the sacred 'Heyoka', whose role is to play tricks and games and by doing so raises awareness and acts as an equalizer."

In Native American Lakota tradition the 'Heyoka' is a 'contrarian' who intentionally does the opposite to what is culturally expected, all the better to challenge the community to think in ways they are not used to thinking and to see things from unconventional perspectives. Similarly, in many indigenous mythologies, the trickster is often of variable gender or may embody male and female genders at once. (Which reminds me of Junkanoo parades of old where there was always at least one cross dressing man 'acting the fool', and how the crowds loved him/her.

What has become of that trickster, I wonder?)

I'm glad Erin has taken up the tie. That she just likes ties and always wanted to wear them. In fact, I'll be looking for a particularly dashing one to bring her from San Francisco this summer.

A little gift for her growing collection of Sacred Ties.

Rizzo
01-31-07, - 02:41 PM
WTF? :confused:

Tafadhali
01-31-07, - 02:55 PM
WTF? :confused:

that's what im saying...

ms. green you wear ties?...so I take it you wear suits...so I guess you dont wear lipstick :/

bahamianpride
01-31-07, - 03:04 PM
that's what im saying...
ms. green you wear ties?...so I take it you wear suits...so I guess you dont wear lipstick :/

i wear ties....
i don't wear suits..
and i don't wear lipstick or any make-up...
im not trying to be a man...
i just like ties....

JA had a mantra...what the mind can concieve and the heart can believe you can achieve...
it was very popular in the nineties....

what's wrong with a woman wearing a tie

islandgyal
01-31-07, - 03:05 PM
WTF? :confused:


it's a METAPHOR, people. (for the record, 'annie hall' wore ties and started an entire fashion craze.) don't miss the forest for the trees:).

Tafadhali
01-31-07, - 03:26 PM
it's a METAPHOR, people. (for the record, 'annie hall' wore ties and started an entire fashion craze.) don't miss the forest for the trees:).

but annie hall wasnt a real person, correct? and ill buy my homey a tie...I dont want t wear them and I dont think its trendy or something id follow...and yes my bahamian sister...I am stylish. ;)

islandgyal
01-31-07, - 03:29 PM
but annie hall wasnt a real person, correct? and ill buy my homey a tie...I dont want t wear them and I dont think its trendy or something id follow...and yes my bahamian sister...I am stylish. ;)


hey, i'll cop to having been trendy in the 80s workplace and wearing ties with my jeans ... they looked great. i worked at a music label right after college, and wearing a tie was a conversation-starter and set me apart from the goths and the slobs:footmouth . more importantly, no one questioned my heterosexuality because my daddy taught me how to tie a windsor knot!!!!

and for the record, i do know how to tie a bow tie properly ... but choose not to:).

Tafadhali
01-31-07, - 03:30 PM
i wear ties....
i don't wear suits..
and i don't wear lipstick or any make-up...
im not trying to be a man...
i just like ties....
JA had a mantra...what the mind can concieve and the heart can believe you can achieve...
it was very popular in the nineties....
what's wrong with a woman wearing a tie

tell me anything.
ties go well with collared(spell check?) shirts...so I gather that's what you wear them with. you probably dont wear skirts either or the color pink. do you take the "man" role in your lesbian relationships?
and who the hell is JA?

Tafadhali
01-31-07, - 03:34 PM
hey, i'll cop to having been trendy in the 80s workplace and wearing ties with my jeans ... they looked great. i worked at a music label, and wearing a tie was a conversation-starter and set me apart from the goths and the slobs:footmouth . more importantly, no one questioned my heterosexuality because my daddy taught me how to tie a windsor knot!!!!
and for the record, i do know how to tie a bow tie properly ... but choose not to:).

what the hell are you saying. you know you could run on and run out at times..jeez louise.

and I take that back a bit...Id wear a tie as a belt...one of buddy's Im a woman I love wearing womanly clothes and wearing pastel and a nice chanel tweed suit (when I get the money) Ms. greene needs to be beat with the girly stick...I think he her anti-man lesbianism she strives for what she could never be...and this tie wearing has its inception in that. I believe.

bahamianpride
01-31-07, - 04:05 PM
what the hell are you saying. you know you could run on and run out at times..jeez louise.
and I take that back a bit...Id wear a tie as a belt...one of buddy's Im a woman I love wearing womanly clothes and wearing pastel and a nice chanel tweed suit (when I get the money) Ms. greene needs to be beat with the girly stick...I think he her anti-man lesbianism she strives for what she could never be...and this tie wearing has its inception in that. I believe.

never said i was a man hater
lesbian does not = man-hater...that is a fallacy....
feminist does not = lesbian

maybe you didn't hear me speak on parliament street during national woman's week...supporting men's right's as a part of the women's liberation movement...ask Craig Butler and Fayne Thompson....

tie wearing does not have its inception in man-hating...
i love ties does not = i hate men

bahamianpride
01-31-07, - 04:08 PM
tell me anything.
ties go well with collared(spell check?) shirts...so I gather that's what you wear them with. you probably dont wear skirts either or the color pink. do you take the "man" role in your lesbian relationships?
and who the hell is JA?

im gay...i don't perpetuate heterosexual paradigms...

i do wear the colour pink...
i like it...lol
and i have a number of striking pink and lavender ties...thank you for asking...

JA is Juniour Achievers...a business oriented program for highschoolers...

islandgyal
01-31-07, - 04:11 PM
what the hell are you saying. you know you could run on and run out at times..jeez louise.


i run on and on? chile, you're the one that has posted several thousand messages in two years, where i haven't even broken 1,000 yet :) in four years of posting here.

all i am saying is, whether a woman wears a tie or not doesn't need to be a threat, to you or anyone else. why can't we discuss the more significant elements of klonaris' column, instead of getting lost in the swamp again.

civility around here is nonexistent at the moment, and petty wisecracks reign, i swear.

Tafadhali
01-31-07, - 04:13 PM
im gay...i don't perpetuate heterosexual paradigms...
i do wear the colour pink...
i like it...lol
and i have a number of striking pink and lavender ties...thank you for asking...
JA is Juniour Achievers...a business oriented program for highschoolers...

"heterosexual paradigms" are the norm and you are a female...in a society as small as the Bahamas...conformity does come into play...I dread Big A hats...but the Bahamian woman in woman makes me conform to wearing them. ;)

i was in junior achievers in high school...I know what it is...just the acronym caught me off guard...i am 10 years displaced from the high school experience...my memory is fleeting. Oh the memories, our mentor or whatever they called him,,,was scrumptious...he was divine..just gorgeous...a man in a suit just does something for me... and I won the stock contest!

jesus ms. green it must be hard being you everyday.

Tafadhali
01-31-07, - 04:21 PM
i run on and on? chile, you're the one that has posted several thousand messages in two years, where i haven't even broken 1,000 yet :) in four years of posting here.

all i am saying is, whether a woman wears a tie or not doesn't need to be a threat, to you or anyone else. why can't we discuss the more significant elements of klonaris' column, instead of getting lost in the swamp again.

civility around here is nonexistent at the moment, and petty wisecracks reign, i swear.

whatever...my golden nuggets of wisdom (my thousand odd posts) are well appreciated around these parks. I know because Im told! your just jealous because in all those years youve been a member you have nothing substantial to say ALL or MOST of the time.

and I didnt read the piece...frankly, I dont care...a lesbian woman wearing a tie isnt my idea of things to hurt my head about. please. but I pretty much gleened the directionof the piece: tolerance. What I have trouble with is the approach of these people with their sissy agenda. Its maddening.

bahamianpride
01-31-07, - 04:33 PM
"heterosexual paradigms" are the norm and you are a female...in a society as small as the Bahamas...conformity does come into play...I dread Big A hats...but the Bahamian woman in woman makes me conform to wearing them. ;)
i was in junior achievers in high school...I know what it is...just the acronym caught me off guard...i am 10 years displaced from the high school experience...my memory is fleeting. Oh the memories, our mentor or whatever they called him,,,was scrumptious...he was divine..just gorgeous...a man in a suit just does something for me... and I won the stock contest!
jesus ms. green it must be hard being you everyday.

who else am i going to be...everyday?

100 years ago...a woman virtually belonged to her husband or father...
that is a heterosexual paradigm...
some Bahamians long for those days still...

don't conform to wearing hats, especially when you don't like them...
we're free now...we can wear what we want...
i prefer long pants..to shorts...and skirts....shorts are necessary in the summer though...
i find a woman that wears well tailored long pants far more attractive and 'classy' than a woman wearing 'tight' pants and skirts or short and revealing skirts...
it's not about pants versus skirts...
its about what is socially appropriate (i don't want to see anyone's *** at the club), and one's sense of self and expression of self (does revealing 'skin' really make you sexy)....

conformity is necessary to maintain relationships and community...
conformity is one of the cornerstones of democracy...
but it really shouldn't be a problem for me to wear a tie...
especially when they are so well co-ordinated...lol