Hi CG what the position of Buddhism on transgender, hermaphrodite or eunuch.

Hi CG what the position of Buddhism on transgender, hermaphrodite or eunuch.

As far as I can see from the Buddhist writings, there is no position. Buddhist are not maniacally interested in the outer appearance, and actions of others, be they "good" or "bad." There are percepts to follow, some of which can disqualify one as a Priest, but the things you mentioned are not mentioned in the Buddhist writings, as far as I know! But remember Buddhist writings are VAST. You Christians are lucky, you only have one book!

Buddhist are also aware that sometimes in nature, things stray from the norm. A person maybe born deformed, or loose a limb due to disease or accident. He may become mentally, or physically ill. Or he may be born a woman in a mans body!! Or your favorite, born left-handed. These are all the sorrows, or departures from the "norms" of life but they are not sins. They are not visited on one as punishments. In fact some Buddhist see them as blessings in disguise!!!

When it comes to "sin" a good Buddhist asks himself these questions.
"Is what I am doing harmful to any sentient beings? ( i.e. man or animal.)"
"Is what I am doing offensive to others?"
And most important,
"Is what I am doing going to hamper my journey to enlightenment?"

If the answer is yes, to any of these, then he as an obligation to stop what he is doing, if that is at all possible. Sometimes it is not, particularly when it comes to offending others. Form example, you may be offended that I am bald! But there is not a lot I can do about that! (Except buy a wig! Then I would just look silly!!) Some folks may be offended by your condition, but there is not a lot you can do about that either. No Buddhist would demand I grow hair, or ask you to change. We are accepted as we are.

But remember, all the things I mentioned above are not generally speaking, considered sins, departures from the norm, yes. Can they make one an outcast? Yes, they can but Buddhist love outcasts. The Buddha was, for a while, one himself. I am I right in saying that Jesus was one too? Also, at one time in history all Christians were outcasts!

As far as I can see from the Buddhist writings, there is no position. Buddhist are not maniacally interested in the outer appearance, and actions of others, be they "good" or "bad." There are percepts to follow, some of which can disqualify one as a Priest, but the things you mentioned are not mentioned in the Buddhist writings, as far as I know! But remember Buddhist writings are VAST. You Christians are lucky, you only have one book!

Buddhist are also aware that sometimes in nature, things stray from the norm. A person maybe born deformed, or loose a limb due to disease or accident. He may become mentally, or physically ill. Or he may be born a woman in a mans body!! Or your favorite, born left-handed. These are all the sorrows, or departures from the "norms" of life but they are not sins. They are not visited on one as punishments. In fact some Buddhist see them as blessings in disguise!!!
CG I only ues left handed people as an example to people that think homosexuality and transgender is something we choose. A person can't choose to be left or right handed. A left handed person can train them selves to use their right hand but they will always be left handed. The other point about left-handed people is Christian leaders are only human and can be mistaken and lie just like any other human. Christians made a horrific mistake when they executed people just because they were left-handed.
All the things they said they feared from left handed people back then, are the same things they say about homosexual and transgender.

When it comes to "sin" a good Buddhist asks himself these questions.
"Is what I am doing harmful to any sentient beings? ( i.e. man or animal.)"
"Is what I am doing offensive to others?"
And most important,
"Is what I am doing going to hamper my journey to enlightenment?"

Sound like how I live maybe more Buddhist than I think.

If the answer is yes, to any of these, then he as an obligation to stop what he is doing, if that is at all possible. Sometimes it is not, particularly when it comes to offending others. Form example, you may be offended that I am bald! But there is not a lot I can do about that! (Except buy a wig! Then I would just look silly!!) Some folks may be offended by your condition, but there is not a lot you can do about that either. No Buddhist would demand I grow hair, or ask you to change. We are accepted as we are.

But remember, all the things I mentioned above are not generally speaking, considered sins, departures from the norm, yes. Can they make one an outcast? Yes, they can but Buddhist love outcasts. The Buddha was, for a while, one himself. I am I right in saying that Jesus was one too? Also, at one time in history all Christians were outcasts!

Like I said you are once again attempting to find justification for what is clearly sinful, unnatural and down right disgusting. I only wish that you do so with out attempting to be justified by the bible. You are trying to justify this life style by putting all kind of biblical spin to scriptures. Guess what Gods word doesn’t need for us to assume that this one was referring to this or that, rather just a dependence on his spirit of truth to guide us into his truth. Jesus was asked about marriage and in that conversation it is clear that he refer to it as one between a woman and a man. As we in the world become more educated with our head knowledge evil deeds become more acceptable, we turn the truth into a lie and bring abomination on the word of God. I know by the word of GOD that these things need be or else the end would not come, for we are living at the end of days.

I can accept the fact that it’s your view that this life style is right, but I cannot accept your desire to legitimize that right by scriptures when it is so bluntly clear that it can not. Stop fooling yourself, you or I can not change the word of GOD, neither can we change what he determines as sin. GOD clearly defines by his word that sex outside of marriage is a sin, but yet to gain acceptance for that life style you are willing have it given some other name just as long as it is recognized by the Constitution, “hmmm”. That tells me that this is not about carrying or clearly defining the word of GOD but rather it’s about the need for acceptance. That foolishness about whether one is born right hand or left hand to parents who are both right hand has nothing to do with it, because kids are not born with two right hands or two left hands under normal circumstances which you refer to. This agenda is setting to take away the equilibrium of the world which is set in opposites (top-bottom, right-left, back-front, boy-girl) this attempt is like creating a world with only left or top, no right or no bottom, this clearly would be a world that is set for disaster. GOD creation created a mate for Adam, that mate was female not male, you would probably come with some reason to even spin that scripture. I have never seen in by scripture where a male and male or female and female where put together in marriage, may be you can show me.

Hi BB359
What happens if your faith is the spin?? After all someone had to read and interpret it as well. Please answer the questions I posted for you.

Then lets us move on ok. At least I back up what I am saying you have yet to do that.

Since you brought up Adam and Eve where did Cain go after he killed Able???
Oh and who did Cain how did he have children????

Your reference to Christ and marriage you need to read before that verse to put it in context. Christ was being asked about a divorce...

Hi BB359
What happens if your faith is the spin?? After all someone had to read and interpret it as well. Please answer the questions I posted for you.

Then lets us move on ok. At least I back up what I am saying you have yet to do that.

Since you brought up Adam and Eve where did Cain go after he killed Able???
Oh and who did Cain how did he have children????

Your reference to Christ and marriage you need to read before that verse to put it in context. Christ was being asked about a divorce...

The truth don't need me to defend it, sorry.

I need to defend nothing I have written because it is all truth and the truth needs no defense, but a perpetrated lie or false truth, like the one you are trying to sell needs to be defended, so that it may be acceptable. I am glad that you notice Jesus was referring to divorce but was it a homosexual divorce, I think not. You are yet to show me where the bible condones Homosexual life style or marriage, Hmmm.

Now your questions
1 (Vicky) How do you explain anything that exists unless the Creator created it? With out the Creator doing so it could not exist. The Creator created homosexuals and transgender humans as well.
Every thing that was created, was created by GOD, the Homosexuals, Murders, Adulteress and fornicators, but understands GOD created the person not the Evil that they do. The bible states how he despises evil. The Homosexual in the eyes of God is just like the Adulteress or the Murder who acted out the evil desire of their heart. God claims creation of the Sinner not the Sin (John 8.44, Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father he will do. He was a murder from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him, when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it).

2 (Vicky) Who created the Devil???? and why?????
Yes once again GOD created the Devil, but that does not mean he approve of what the devils does. This is why he has promise him a place in eternal hell for his deeds and all of those who follow his lead. Not because you created the gun means you are responsible for what others do with it. Remember GOD made us all with the ability of free will, we can use that will for good or we can use it for bad.

3. (Vicky) The point being made by the spoof is that even in the Bible there is more than 1 kind of marriage. Also if you look at pervious post you will see a link that will show you that long before Christianity and to this date that homosexual and transgender people were honored people and being married.
Do not except something as being right because the precedent for it may be from ancient times. GOD in Exodus gave the commandments to Moses which states his laws, and the remaining scriptures support those laws, so it makes no difference how long this lifestyle was in existence GOD decree it to be a sinful abomination. If a man was murdered before there were laws against killing does that make him less of a sinner in the eyes of GOD, NO. So Homosexuality is wrong whether it occurred before scripture were written or not.

4. (Vicky) Please point out in the Bible where homosexuality is a sin and in context off the entire Bible. Considering we are not Jews. Considering we are Followers of the teachings of Christ called Christians and not Followers of the apostles called Paulest or whatever apostilest. As their writing are just their opinions and letters. I do not pray or worship Paul or anyother apositlis.
[COLOR=DarkRed]Once again you are attempting to cut of the head to suit your tail. It is an easy way to clear ones conscious by separating scriptures that pertain to the Jews and writing of Paul. I see this final question as a desperate attempt to receive biblical right for a life style that is in opposition to every tone of GOD’s Holy Scriptures. If I were to use this type of logic I could use it for the man who is against Capital punishment, in support of bestiality and child abuse. To ease your conscious and those around you who may share your view you may remove passages out of the bible, but for me the bible stands as is, the undisputable word of GOD. Amen

I say thank you so much for your well thought out answers, which are very good I might add. But they lead me to other questions. I am not asking you to defend your faith I am asking you to help me understand what you understand. And if it goes your way so be it I will change my view. But if it goes my way will you change yours. Or will you be like 1 of the people that still think the world is flat?

You are yet to show me where the bible condones Homosexual life style or marriage, Hmmm.

I never said it condoned it. But there are a few references that can be read as very homosexual. Example 1 man said to another “My love for you is more than that of a woman. What I am saying is should my or yours or anyone else’s faith be used to create and impose laws against others of non or different faith. If we do this we are not treating others, as we want to be treated. Because I know I would not want someone else faith forced on me. Example the Taliban.

Question 1 response. Very good but science comes in here. You are lumping homosexuality with choice sins. Example I will have a chocolate donut today, I will have sex with my sectary (married or not) today. Oh I will be homosexual to day. Be honest here please. Can you your self really chooses to be homosexual. Can you really want to have a love relationship that involves sex with some one of the same sex? Can you see your self in a romantic kiss with some one of the same sex?
Yes or no will do fine here but if you have something to add please do.
This is just a comment question for thought. Who would choose to be homosexual.. I did not choose to be transgender I just am.

2 Ok here we agree that the Creator created the devil. Would you knowingly create your enemy? You see for me The Creator knows past present and future. The Creator knew what was going to happen when the Creator made Lucifer. Unless for you and your faith the Creator is not all knowing. For me the Creator created all and when the creator was finished on the 6th day the Creator said it is good. I will not presume to judge the Creator.
The Creator’s plain, well we are trying to understand and we fall very short of that understanding. The Creator sent a teacher the Creator’s Son. When asked what are the 2 most important commandment’s/Laws the Son said Love the Creator with all thy heart and all thy soul. The second the second is like the first Love thy neighbor as thy self. But the Son did not stop there. The Son said do these things and you fulfill all the laws of the Profits. For this I must treat all, as I want to be treated. If I don’t want a law that prevents me from being married union to the person I love I can’t let there be a law that does it to some one else. I am married have 2 children and 1 grand. You can take the paper work and burn it for all I care but you or anyone else try to tell me we can’t share each other lives together thems fighten words. I will defend this right for us to be together to my last breath. Thus I must do the same for you or anyone else homosexual included.

3 Yes in the commandments given to Moses its does list homosexual sex as wrong no doubt. But how about all the other things Listed as wrong? Example eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. Since when can we pick and choose which laws to follow.
Also the laws given to Moses are the Holiness Code. Christ said he did not come the change the law not 1 word. The law is to remain until it achieves its purpose.

What is the purpose of the Holiness Code???
Give you a clue read the last verse of Lev.

Do not except something as being right because the precedent for it may be from ancient times.

I can’t but you can.

4. Could you be adding a head to the tail just because everyone else does? Remember Christianity has its share of propaganda to.
The Laws of the Jews are just that the laws of and for Jews. I am not a Jew. Paul was a human just like you or I He could only hope to understand the way of the Creator through Christ. His letters and writings are just that his. Do you really think what you see in the Bible is all he wrote and thought. Do you really think that because he has writings in the Bible Paul understood all that the Creator understood?

So I fall back on the teachings of Christ. Who him self opposed the laws in the Holiness Code. Why did he not stone the adulteress it was the law commanded by the Creator????
Why did Christ work on the Sabbath???
Do you live by all the laws in the Holiness Code?????

Just a few more questions for the discussion

I say thank you so much for your well thought out answers, which are very good I might add. But they lead me to other questions. I am not asking you to defend your faith I am asking you to help me understand what you understand. And if it goes your way so be it I will change my view. But if it goes my way will you change yours. Or will you be like 1 of the people that still think the world is flat?

You are yet to show me where the bible condones Homosexual life style or marriage, Hmmm.

I never said it condoned it. But there are a few references that can be read as very homosexual. Example 1 man said to another “My love for you is more than that of a woman. What I am saying is should my or yours or anyone else’s faith be used to create and impose laws against others of non or different faith. If we do this we are not treating others, as we want to be treated. Because I know I would not want someone else faith forced on me. Example the Taliban.

Question 1 response. Very good but science comes in here. You are lumping homosexuality with choice sins. Example I will have a chocolate donut today, I will have sex with my sectary (married or not) today. Oh I will be homosexual to day. Be honest here please. Can you your self really chooses to be homosexual. Can you really want to have a love relationship that involves sex with some one of the same sex? Can you see your self in a romantic kiss with some one of the same sex?
Yes or no will do fine here but if you have something to add please do.
This is just a comment question for thought. Who would choose to be homosexual.. I did not choose to be transgender I just am.

2 Ok here we agree that the Creator created the devil. Would you knowingly create your enemy? You see for me The Creator knows past present and future. The Creator knew what was going to happen when the Creator made Lucifer. Unless for you and your faith the Creator is not all knowing. For me the Creator created all and when the creator was finished on the 6th day the Creator said it is good. I will not presume to judge the Creator.
The Creator’s plain, well we are trying to understand and we fall very short of that understanding. The Creator sent a teacher the Creator’s Son. When asked what are the 2 most important commandment’s/Laws the Son said Love the Creator with all thy heart and all thy soul. The second the second is like the first Love thy neighbor as thy self. But the Son did not stop there. The Son said do these things and you fulfill all the laws of the Profits. For this I must treat all, as I want to be treated. If I don’t want a law that prevents me from being married union to the person I love I can’t let there be a law that does it to some one else. I am married have 2 children and 1 grand. You can take the paper work and burn it for all I care but you or anyone else try to tell me we can’t share each other lives together thems fighten words. I will defend this right for us to be together to my last breath. Thus I must do the same for you or anyone else homosexual included.

3 Yes in the commandments given to Moses its does list homosexual sex as wrong no doubt. But how about all the other things Listed as wrong? Example eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. Since when can we pick and choose which laws to follow.
Also the laws given to Moses are the Holiness Code. Christ said he did not come the change the law not 1 word. The law is to remain until it achieves its purpose.

What is the purpose of the Holiness Code???
Give you a clue read the last verse of Lev.

Do not except something as being right because the precedent for it may be from ancient times.

I can’t but you can.

4. Could you be adding a head to the tail just because everyone else does? Remember Christianity has its share of propaganda to.
The Laws of the Jews are just that the laws of and for Jews. I am not a Jew. Paul was a human just like you or I He could only hope to understand the way of the Creator through Christ. His letters and writings are just that his. Do you really think what you see in the Bible is all he wrote and thought. Do you really think that because he has writings in the Bible Paul understood all that the Creator understood?

So I fall back on the teachings of Christ. Who him self opposed the laws in the Holiness Code. Why did he not stone the adulteress it was the law commanded by the Creator????
Why did Christ work on the Sabbath???
Do you live by all the laws in the Holiness Code?????

Just a few more questions for the discussion

1. (Vicky) 1 never said it condoned it. But there are a few references that can be read as very homosexual. Example 1 man said to another “My love for you is more than that of a woman. What I am saying is should my or yours or anyone else’s faith be used to create and impose laws against others of non or different faith. If we do this we are not treating others, as we want to be treated. Because I know I would not want someone else faith forced on me. Example the Taliban.

This love is the kind of love that would allow one to give his life for his friends. Jesus made reference to this love which is found in its quality not in its ability to display just to be pleasing, but rather loving those who are consider unloveable like the Homosexual, the murder and the adulteress. Please read 1st Cor 13. Jesus display such a love for those who would later reject him, yet his love allowed him to be a sacrifice for us all.

2. (Vicky) Very good but science comes in here. You are lumping homosexuality with choice sins. Example I will have a chocolate donut today, I will have sex with my sectary (married or not) today. Oh I will be homosexual to day. Be honest here please. Can you your self really chooses to be homosexual. Can you really want to have a love relationship that involves sex with some one of the same sex? Can you see your self in a romantic kiss with some one of the same sex?
Yes or no will do fine here but if you have something to add please do.

Persons can be possessed by demons that lead them to this life style and there are others who through there own choice decide to become one. Some of the latter are those who act in X rated movies or just like the pleasure of crossing over into different life style to fulfill the evil desire of there hearts, others are just confuse, but all are able to be healed by the blood of Jesus. The same above is the cause of any sin, (the murder who is a serial killer because he is demonically possessed, the Murder who kills for pleasure, and the murder that is lead astray by the desire of his heart to do that which is evil.

3. (Vicky) Ok here we agree that the Creator created the devil. Would you knowingly create your enemy? You see for me The Creator knows past present and future. The Creator knew what was going to happen when the Creator made Lucifer. Unless for you and your faith the Creator is not all knowing. For me the Creator created all and when the creator was finished on the 6th day the Creator said it is good.

Yes he created the Devil, he knows all things, but because of his love for us he did not make us in to robots or puppets that would blindly follow him, so with our choices he gave us the will to chose him or the devil. Look at it this way if you were offered two pieces of expensive jewelry and were told that one of the pieces went through all the testings possible and came out like fine gold and there is know doubt that it is real, while on the other hand the other piece just looked real but was not tested, which one would you take. No doubt the one that has proven its worth. So God provided the devil as a means to identify those who are really his and have proven themselves to be worthy of being called his. Yes the Devil serves a purpose and GOD from the beginning knew what that purpose would be, but because of his love he allows even his enemies to exist. This same GOD allows those who would kill his believers and put his son to death to breath. In most cases those persons continue to enjoy all that this existence provide just as much as the believers and at times even more. He said in his word to allow the wheat and the teer to grow together, for in the day of harvest he would separate them. This same GOD already knows who would make it to his Kingdom and those who are predestined for hell, but yet he allows all to experience LIFE this great gift he has given to mankind. What a wonderful GOD.

4. (Vicky) I will not presume to judge the Creator.
The Creator’s plain, well we are trying to understand and we fall very short of that understanding. The Creator sent a teacher the Creator’s Son. When asked what are the 2 most important commandment’s/Laws the Son said Love the Creator with all thy heart and all thy soul. The second the second is like the first Love thy neighbor as thy self. But the Son did not stop there. The Son said do these things and you fulfill all the laws of the Profits. For this I must treat all, as I want to be treated. If I don’t want a law that prevents me from being married union to the person I love I can’t let there be a law that does it to some one else. I am married have 2 children and 1 grand. You can take the paper work and burn it for all I care but you or anyone else try to tell me we can’t share each other lives together thems fighten words. I will defend this right for us to be together to my last breath. Thus I must do the same for you or anyone else homosexual included.

This is not about defending a right to be together, but rather about right by scriptures to condone such a life style. If you believe like I do that true life is not in this world but rather in the one to come with our Savior who has promise us abundant life which is beyond our human imagination, you would not seek to defend that which is clearly wrong no matter the pleasure or world standard of right. “For all of these things in this world shall pass away” and how stupid it would appear on that they when you look back at the undefendable that you and so many defend to your last breath, to the damnation of your soul. Nothing is worth eternal damnation of your soul. Whether you ignore the fact that this is wrong in the eyes of GOD and his word speaks clearly against it, does not make you immune to his wrath of eternal damnation, which is for all sinners.

5. (Vicky) Yes in the commandments given to Moses its does list homosexual sex as wrong no doubt. But how about all the other things Listed as wrong? Example eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. Since when can we pick and choose which laws to follow?
Also the laws given to Moses are the Holiness Code. Christ said he did not come the change the law not 1 word. The law is to remain until it achieves its purpose.
What is the purpose of the Holiness Code???
Give you a clue read the last verse of Lev.

Holiness is a choice that we as Christians or believers choose, that is why young women who are believers would not wear clothing that expose their bodies. Paul refers to it like this, all things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for but all things edify not (1 Cor 10:23). In the laws you are referring to Moses gave guidelines to holiness for the people to follow, this was to aid in the establishment of a people who would dedicate themselves to GOD. The food you speak about for example were consider unclean, marriage was already identify in the ten commandments as a heterosexual union (Exodus 19:17 in which he orders one not to cover thy neighbors wife), as for the cutting of hair this was all in accordance to the image of that nations goal to present itself holy. Homosexuality is a different topic because it was not about presenting oneself holy it was about a sinful act that involved one's body, mind and soul; none of the others required such a commitment. Since God never gave the right for men to marry one of his own kind, what ever act that is done under the umbrella of homosexuality would be a sin and is covered in the commandments thou shall not commit adultery. We do not delete and choose which sin is lesser because sin is sin, but not all things spoken to the Israelites by Moses were sin, rather some were laws to govern the people in the part of God’s standard of holiness. Remember they were living by Law not by grace which is another topic, but the short version is that they did things to present themselves holy, but under grace Christ did for us and we only need to believe in him and we are made righteous.

6. (Vicky) Do not except something as being right because the precedent for it may be from ancient times. I can’t but you can.

I can neither of myself, I am no different from you, but it is all through Christ that I now can by faith in his word and wash by his blood clean. Take away Christ and I would be like any other man searching for the pleasures of this world.

7. (Vicky) Could you be adding a head to the tail just because everyone else does? Remember Christianity has its share of propaganda to.
The Laws of the Jews are just that the laws of and for Jews. I am not a Jew. Paul was a human just like you or I He could only hope to understand the way of the Creator through Christ. His letters and writings are just that his. Do you really think what you see in the Bible is all he wrote and thought. Do you really think that because he has writings in the Bible Paul understood all that the Creator understood?

Yes there are many religions but, if you understand what Christ did for us you would know that this is more than a religion but rather a relationship, because our savior did not leave us comfortless but he sent a comforter or helper called the Holy Ghost to guide us into all truth. He for told in his word of times to come that man are finding to be so accurate. He continues to change persons who were homosexuals, adulteress, murders, and just old plain sinners like me, into the image of his son. He has had the greatest impact on the life of men for the past 2,000 years and yet so many are looking forward to his return. Yes wars have been fought in his name, yes many have been slaughter for and against him but he is still the greatest thing that has ever happen. God gives to no man all the mysterious and sure Paul did not had it all but whatever truths he was given by the holy Ghost was set down for our edification. So those with ear to hear what the spirit is saying let him or her hear because he speaks even during these days to his servants.

8. (Vicky) So I fall back on the teachings of Christ. Who himself opposed the laws in the Holiness Code. Why did he not stone the adulteress it was the law commanded by the Creator????
Why did Christ work on the Sabbath???
Do you live by all the laws in the Holiness Code?????

Christ did not condemn the woman to death by stoning, but he commanded her to go and sin no more, acknowledging that she had sin. So in by not condemning her to be stone does not means he condones her actions. If she left that scene and continued in the part of sin she would have her part in the lake of fire (hell) which is far worse than any stoning that those men would have done. You must also understand that Christ position at this coming was that of Savior but on his return he would be Judge and executioner. The Saviors role was to establish the part for forgiveness and obtaining righteousness. The Judge and executioners role would be to judge the wrong and to carry out the punishment. I live by the laws of loving my neighbor as myself. Christ declared that he was lord of the Sabbath. This was keeping with his message that one can not make him or herself righteous by what they do but it is a right of GOD. So the keeping of the Sabbaths kept the Jews focus on the appearance of holiness rather than making a real change with in there hearts. Christ teaching was to change man from with in, doing away with the phony appearance of righteousness.

Just a few more answers to your questions.

You missed this one..

Question 1 response. Very good but science comes in here. You are lumping homosexuality with choice sins. Example I will have a chocolate donut today, I will have sex with my sectary (married or not) today. Oh I will be homosexual to day. Be honest here please. Can you your self really chooses to be homosexual. Can you really want to have a love relationship that involves sex with some one of the same sex? Can you see your self in a romantic kiss with some one of the same sex?
Yes or no will do fine here but if you have something to add please do.
This is just a comment question for thought. Who would choose to be homosexual.. I did not choose to be transgender I just am.

1 question, who is helen klonaris??

1 question, who is helen klonaris??
a very good friend and also a member of the Alliance.
Do you belive in equal rights?? do you want to join??
Being a member does not make anyone gay we have a lot of striaght members.

Hey bb this post is getting long let us shorten it by numbering the statements we are looking for a response to. That way we can just put a number then our response to that statement instead of putting the whole statement as well ok.
Please feel free to add other statments so we can get a good understaning ok.


This love is the kind of love that would allow one to give his life for his friends. Jesus made reference to this love which is found in its quality not in its ability to display just to be pleasing, but rather loving those who are consider unloveable like the Homosexual, the murder and the adulteress. Please read 1st Cor 13. Jesus display such a love for those who would later reject him, yet his love allowed him to be a sacrifice for us all.

If Jesus was making this kind of reference “My love for you is more than that of a woman.” why did he only call the 1 mans name and not all of his disciples.
(1) 1st Cor are the writings of Paul but are you referring to chapter 13 or verse 13. I will read it as you ask once you respond.

(2)How would you feel if the law of the land forced you to hide the fact you are Christian and you hade to lie about it to get a job to keep your family and friends. And you can’t marry the Christian woman you love because Christian marriage is not permitted. This law was based on what some one believed to be the truth. This is you home your country land you own by you fathers hand down and so on. How would you feel if you had to live as (lets say Muslim) Just to live??????

Persons can be possessed by demons that lead them to this life style and there are others who through there own choice decide to become one. Some of the latter are those who act in X rated movies or just like the pleasure of crossing over into different life style to fulfill the evil desire of there hearts, others are just confuse, but all are able to be healed by the blood of Jesus. The same above is the cause of any sin, (the murder who is a serial killer because he is demonically possessed, the Murder who kills for pleasure, and the murder that is lead astray by the desire of his heart to do that which is evil.

Sorry the above is pure assumption there is no proof of this. This is something you believe just as people believed the world was flat. You cannot make this stuff up ok we are talking fact not assumption. Even though the Bible is faith there is the fact that there are writings to reference in the Bible. Ok.

Yes this same GOD already knows who would make it to his Kingdom and those who are predestined for hell, but yet he allows all to experience LIFE this great gift he has given to mankind. What a wonderful GOD.

Ok do you see what you said here? With this statement you have proved my most improtant point. predestined. The Creator knows who is homosexual who is a murderer, theif, adulterer and so on.
So if the Creator knows I am transgender (predestined) can I change what the Creator knows??? No. If the Creator knows my friend George is a homosexual can George change what the Creator already knows?? No. Thus is it my place to descrimanate aginst George knowing that the Creator predestend George to homosexuality???? That is for the Creator not you I or anyone else. You or I can’t change what the Creator knows. We must just accept it and treat them as we want our selves want to be treated. Equaly Even weeds/tars are the Creator’s will. I don’t belive in your predestyined to go to hell. I belive that the Creator made/planed/knows I am transgendered. It is the Creators purpose and I am not going to hell for it. When I see my reflection I know this body is what the Creator gave me. I also know that the Creator gave me a spirt/self idenity that does not match the body. I don’t know why but the Creator does. Your belife or my belife who detrmanes who is right in the end. The Creator not you or I or the majority. But we are all human and must treat all with equalquality as Christ taught. If we have/create laws or social rules that treat other humans unequaly we are diobaying Christs teachings.

This is not about defending a right to be together, but rather about right by scriptures to condone such a life style. If you believe like I do that true life is not in this world but rather in the one to come with our Savior who has promise us abundant life which is beyond our human imagination, you would not seek to defend that which is clearly wrong no matter the pleasure or world standard of right. “For all of these things in this world shall pass away” and how stupid it would appear on that they when you look back at the undefendable that you and so many defend to your last breath, to the damnation of your soul. Nothing is worth eternal damnation of your soul. Whether you ignore the fact that this is wrong in the eyes of GOD and his word speaks clearly against it, does not make you immune to his wrath of eternal damnation, which is for all sinners.

It is about being together. Whos scriptuers whos intriptation whos faith is right? You with your version of Christanity were you pick a chooes which rules in the Bible you follow and would have others follow. Or mine where I follow the teachings of Christ and disregard the rest of the Bible. Or the lets say Amiracan Indain who has a completly different view of the Creator.
Nothing the Creator created is wrong we just assume it is wrong. On the end of the 6th day the Creator said it is good. It all serves the Creators purpose. Can you say the Creator is wrong?

5. (Vicky) Yes in the commandments given to Moses its does list homosexual sex as wrong no doubt. But how about all the other things Listed as wrong? Example eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. Since when can we pick and choose which laws to follow?
Also the laws given to Moses are the Holiness Code. Christ said he did not come the change the law not 1 word. The law is to remain until it achieves its purpose.
What is the purpose of the Holiness Code???
Give you a clue read the last verse of Lev.

Holiness is a choice that we as Christians or believers choose, that is why young women who are believers would not wear clothing that expose their bodies. Paul refers to it like this, all things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for but all things edify not (1 Cor 10:23). In the laws you are referring to Moses gave guidelines to holiness for the people to follow, this was to aid in the establishment of a people who would dedicate themselves to GOD. The food you speak about for example were consider unclean, marriage was already identify in the ten commandments as a heterosexual union (Exodus 19:17 in which he orders one not to cover thy neighbors wife), Ah but it did not say if the other spouse was husbans or wife. as for the cutting of hair this was all in accordance to the image of that nations goal to present itself holy. Homosexuality is a different topic because it was not about presenting oneself holy it was about a sinful act that involved one's body, mind and soul;

You still did not say what is the purpose of the Holiness Code.
Your hair is a part of your body. There are many more laws like how to plant fields the clothes you wear. (3) Oh and in a discussion Christ had he said Judge not least you be judged by the same laws you judge others. Christ was referring to the Holiness Code.


none of the others required such a commitment. Since God never gave the right for men to marry one of his own kind, what ever act that is done under the umbrella of homosexuality would be a sin and is covered in the commandments thou shall not commit adultery. We do not delete and choose which sin is lesser because sin is sin, but not all things spoken to the Israelites by Moses were sin, rather some were laws to govern the people in the part of God’s standard of holiness. Remember they were living by Law not by grace which is another topic, but the short version is that they did things to present themselves holy, but under grace Christ did for us and we only need to believe in him and we are made righteous.

You see the laws of Moses do not apply, as they are the laws of the Jews. We are not Jews. I follow the teachings of Christ. (4)Another point Christ healed the beloved servant boy of a roman centurion. Do you know your history? Roman and Greek men kept servant boys mostly young men for sex. This is historical fact.

6. (Vicky) Do not except something as being right because the precedent for it may be from ancient times. I can’t but you can.

I can neither of myself, I am no different from you, but it is all through Christ that I now can by faith in his word and wash by his blood clean. Take away Christ and I would be like any other man searching for the pleasures of this world.

We were given the pleasures of this world if not we would not have them refer to your predestiny.

7. (Vicky) Could you be adding a head to the tail just because everyone else does? Remember Christianity has its share of propaganda to.
The Laws of the Jews are just that the laws of and for Jews. I am not a Jew. Paul was a human just like you or I He could only hope to understand the way of the Creator through Christ. His letters and writings are just that his. Do you really think what you see in the Bible is all he wrote and thought. Do you really think that because he has writings in the Bible Paul understood all that the Creator understood?

Yes there are many religions but, if you understand what Christ did for us you would know that this is more than a religion but rather a relationship, because our savior did not leave us comfortless but he sent a comforter or helper called the Holy Ghost to guide us into all truth. He for told in his word of times to come that man are finding to be so accurate. He continues to change persons who were homosexuals, adulteress, murders, and just old plain sinners like me, into the image of his son. He has had the greatest impact on the life of men for the past 2,000 years and yet so many are looking forward to his return. Yes wars have been fought in his name, yes many have been slaughter for and against him but he is still the greatest thing that has ever happen. God gives to no man all the mysterious and sure Paul did not had it all but whatever truths he was given by the holy Ghost was set down for our edification. So those with ear to hear what the spirit is saying let him or her hear because he speaks even during these days to his servants.

The impact you speak of was at the end of a sword on at the end of a hangman’s rope and even in fires in town squares.
Yes Onward Christian solders kill all the inhabitants of the town because they are not Christian then bring back all the valuables to the Church. Now known as the Vatican.
How about the good old days of the inquisitions were if you were condemned to death all you owned was forfeit to the Church. Most were tortured to death and or until they confessed then all was taken from them and it went to the church of the Grand Inquisitor. There was no passing on of land or wealth to other family it all went to the church. Then they were chained to a pole in the town square and burned alive. Yes this impact was in the name of Christ over thousands of years and still going on to this day. (5)They might not be being killed but persecuted and discriminated against, in Christ’s name. “Blessed are those that are persecuted in my name sake.”
(6) Please find where Christ taught go and kill all those that do not do all that is in the Bible then take everything they own and build me a great building and call it a church.

8. (Vicky) So I fall back on the teachings of Christ. Who himself opposed the laws in the Holiness Code. Why did he not stone the adulteress it was the law commanded by the Creator????
Why did Christ work on the Sabbath???
Do you live by all the laws in the Holiness Code?????

Christ did not condemn the woman to death by stoning, but he commanded her to go and sin no more, acknowledging that she had sin. So in by not condemning her to be stone does not means he condones her actions. If she left that scene and continued in the part of sin she would have her part in the lake of fire (hell) which is far worse than any stoning that those men would have done. You must also understand that Christ position at this coming was that of Savior but on his return he would be Judge and executioner. The Saviors role was to establish the part for forgiveness and obtaining righteousness. The Judge and executioners role would be to judge the wrong and to carry out the punishment. I live by the laws of loving my neighbor as myself.

Go and sin no more so some other bunch of self righteous idiots don’t try to kill you again. is my is my interatation.. By not stoning the woman Christ disobeyed the Creator's law given to Moses.
Christ said to the crowd he with out sin cast the first stone. He made it clear to the mob that they are just as much sinners and have no right to judge and or condemn this woman. If she was a sinner or not it was not up to the mob but up to the Creator. Christ’s second commandment is pleased here. Love thy neighbor as thy self. I you committed a sin would you want to be stoned for it. No. (7)Would you accept a law that would prevent you from marring/legal union the person you love just because it is someone else’s beliefs? No you would not. If your neighbor were homosexual you would have laws that make them unequal in this action you don’t follow the teachings of Christ.

Christ declared that he was lord of the Sabbath. This was keeping with his message that one can not make him or herself righteous by what they do but it is a right of GOD. So the keeping of the Sabbaths kept the Jews focus on the appearance of holiness rather than making a real change with in there hearts. Christ teaching was to change man from with in, doing away with the phony appearance of righteousness.

Just a few more answers to your questions.

1. I am referring to 1st Cor Ch13.

2. Defiantly I would not feel good about this, but this does not compare to Homosexuality, because just like any other sin be it adultery or murder such behavior is not good by any standard and is one that men who for the most part prefer to keep quiet. I understand that there is a difference these days’ men have become bolder in this kind of behavior, but that need be so that the words spoken of by Paul who you don't like very much could come to pass, for these are the end of days. There boldness in no way indicates GOD's willingness to remove this from the category of sin. Yes there are laws against homosexual behavior in public, at the same time there may not be laws against adultery but I don't know of any man who is having an adulteress relationship and would wish to make to the public domain.

3. Christ in saying Judge not that he be not judge was referring to the fact that one may know that he is a fornicator or adulteress and yet wanted to stand in judgments against another. Look at 1st Cor Ch 6 v2 Paul tells the Church that they would judge the world. This is what the church is doing today now the Church is at fault when it does this and its members are living just like the world. Then Jesus in John Ch 7 V24 says Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. So when one look at both scriptures that I have referred to here you realize that he was not saying in the statement that you quote Judge that he be not Judge, not to Judge but rather like I stated before Judge when you know you yourself is above reproach unless you be also Judge.

4. It may be a fact that young boys were used for such reasons, but you must be careful in what you are saying because you are giving the impression now that Jesus condones Child Molestation. There is nothing in that miracle account that would lead me to believe that this man was having a sexual relationship with the young boy. I have told you in earlier writing that Jesus was a savior for all mankind not just for those who followed him, so as such many were healed and yet many out of that number would not make it to heaven. Being healed does not mean you are save from sin.

I see that you are misunderstanding Predestine and God's ability to be all knowing. Predestine in this sense does not mean that God put with in us the wrong that we would do and we can not move of the track of doing that wrong. Predestine in the sense that I am referring to means that you or I as an individual have made a choice as to where our final destination would become heaven or hell. GOD does not make the choice for you or I, instead he puts the road in front of us and give us the choice whether we would wish to go down the one that leads to destruction or the one that leads to righteousness. Even on the road that leads to destruction he puts bumps along (that message, that word of wisdom to change, come to him before it is too late) to get us on the right road, but yet it is up to us to decide. Unfortunately we ignore these moments and continue down the path of destruction. Yes God knows what we would chose, but for him to be able to judge righteously he would put the road bumps along the way, so on that day he would tell us thus and I Quote (example) "you remember the words that where written to you warning you that such life style was against my will yet you heed not those words, but that was I trying to get you on the path of righteousness because I love you". So we would be judge by the creator not base upon our sin but rather on the times we were warned by what ever media to discontinue sinning and we refuse to change.

GOD or the creator as you call him made all and said it was good, but according to scripture it was not to remain so, also remember Satan had not entered the Garden yet. This event with Satan change all that God had proclaim good, in fact Jesus reprimand the Jews telling them that they are of there father the devil and that he was a liar from the beginning and the father of it.

5. Agree with you that blessed is he who is persecuted in the name of Jesus Christ. But this blessing is for the sake of righteousness not for the sake of a life style that the bible condemns.

6 Christ never taught that one should kill all those that do not do all that is in the Bible then take everything they own and build me a great building and call it a church. I condemn those who did this in the past. But you must also remember that many have been killed for doing as the bible says.

7. I should be allow to marry any female who is of accountable age and no law I know of in these days would prevent me from so doing, so this question don't arise. Preventing same sex marriages is nothing to do about another persons view, it's more so to do about morals, against the will of God, against the natural nature of this planet and it can not produce anything but destruction. What can man with man or woman with woman give to society or back to the creator nothing but a mixed up world. This type of union can't even live up to its obligation and contribute to the continue progression of the human race. This life style cheapens the human race and makes us lower than the animals who mates and form unions according to heterosexual unions.
:sparky:

BB359 again you are skirting around the questions. I am truly trying to understand this issue. Please answer the questions.