OkOkOkOk...this is getting drawn out pretty long...and it strays from the original point of the post...all I was saying is that I don't think pagan should not be used to describe the bible...because it is not of a pagan nature from either definition or understanding that is presented...mine or anyone else's.


And there is nothing wrong with what you "think" Rizzo as long as you specify just that - you are speaking from YOUR belief.
If you want to present your belief as fact on this forum, moreover anywhere, you might want to do so in an objective fashion or inconsistencies will present themselves in what you have to say.
I believe stressing objectivity is not straying from the point, I believe if everybody involved in this discussion kept this in mind, their points would be more solid. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who wouldn't agree that objectivity is relevant when it comes to an issue of proof.
You've made it clear that you don't think the word pagan should be used to describe the Bible. And nobody here, that I'm aware of has faulted you for that. BUT once you say "should", you indicate romanticism or an ideal. One is then inclined to believe that you say this because you speak from a faith that is of Judeo-Christian orientation. And again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

However, like I said, the consequences are: everything you say in this vein will be considered pretty much inconsistent because you apply what is by definition "pagan" to/for you to everyone else when pagan is an abstract word relative to whomever uses it.
Reconsider. The very attempt of subverting/subjecting the beliefs of others to scrutiny using your ideals under the guise of an abstract word could very well be considered the earmark for burgeoning terrorism.
The Vulgate is a pagan book if you are not of a Judeo-Christian belief system, and even for some, such as myself (who do have roots in a Judeo-Christian belief system) pagan material can be found within the Vulgate.

Ok just got some information on Paganism from my online chat last night.
Paganism is not a religion. How that I can admit I can learn and I can make a mistake.
Paganism is the word used as a category. These religions worship a multitude of gods or spirits.
People who worship Zeus and the gods under him are Pagans. People who practice Wicca are Pagans. That cleared up the Bible still Pagan based. As in divine conception is not new. The Shepard over mankind is not new. The sacrifice on the cross is not new among other things. Christianity is very much Pagan based. As in the influence Emperor Constantine had on the Religion and the Bible.
It was just adapted from a multi god system to a 1 god system. 1 God with other spirits/angels/messengers/saints or what ever you want to call the lower Pagans gods now. I put saints because many Christians pray to saints.

It was just adapted from a multi god system to a 1 god system. 1 God with other spirits/angels/messengers/saints or what ever you want to call the lower Pagans gods now. I put saints because many Christians pray to saints.


The good ole' Pantheon eh? Rather it should, (in all fairness) read, "Many who call themselves 'Christian' pray to saints."

Is there not even a question mark in your head, Dionysus sacrificed on the old rugged cross?
His Father was Zeus and his mother a mortal woman. Immaculate Conception sound familiar



So Vicky...in order for me to grasp what you're saying....(and you always tell me that you live according to Jesus' teachings right)......in your understanding....tell me....who is Jesus?...

1) do you believe he was the son of God?

2) do you believe he was born of the virgin mary?

3) do you believe he rose from the dead after being crucified?

This question is only directed to Vicky....I would appreciate it if everyone respects that and allows only Vicky to respond to the questions I just asked. And by the way Vicky...these should be simple yes/no answers because I didn't ask why you believe them....so if you may, please answer them simply...yes/no.

So Vicky...in order for me to grasp what you're saying....(and you always tell me that you live according to Jesus' teachings right)......in your understanding....tell me....who is Jesus?...

1) do you believe he was the son of God?
As we are all children of the Creator. Christ refers to himself as The son of man. As in human
2) do you believe he was born of the virgin mary?
I don't know I have seen no proof. The people around her did not belive it either. She was going to be stoned and her true love stood in for her. A shotgun wedding ooopps sorry a stones thow wedding.
3) do you believe he rose from the dead after being crucified?
I don't know there is no proof one way or the other.

For me that is not an issue. Christ taught a better way to live for all mankind. Remember the Bible was put together by men under the supervision of a Pagan Roman emperor. Much can be added just as much was not included. But there is one truth that can't be denied in his teachings. That is:
To love the Creator
To treat all with respect and caring no matter how different no different than you want to be treated.
After all who did Christ hang out with who did he stand up for???


This question is only directed to Vicky....I would appreciate it if everyone respects that and allows only Vicky to respond to the questions I just asked. And by the way Vicky...these should be simple yes/no answers because I didn't ask why you believe them....so if you may, please answer them simply...yes/no.
[/QUOTE]

you have not answered any of my questions Vicky...so I'll rephrase them...and again...try to answer in yes/no.....

1) Do you believe that he is the son of God,...in that God sent his spirit down to earth and his son was conceived by Mary?

2) Do you believe that he was resurrected from the dead?



3) There is also no proof that he was here on earth, although much has been written about him...do you believe he was here on earth?

you have not answered any of my questions Vicky...so I'll rephrase them...and again...try to answer in yes/no.....

1) Do you believe that he is the son of God,...in that God sent his spirit down to earth and his son was conceived by Mary?
No proof either way so I have to say no.
2) Do you believe that he was resurrected from the dead?
No proof either way so I have to say no.


3) There is also no proof that he was here on earth, although much has been written about him...do you believe he was here on earth?

Don't care how much is written there is no proof either way so I have to say no.

Is that what you want to hear. Ok so you don't care why I don't believe why I have doubts. Thats fine. As I said I am still open for answers and I am looking. But I put faith in fact.

No proof either way so I have to say no.

No proof either way so I have to say no.



Don't care how much is written there is no proof either way so I have to say no.

Is that what you want to hear. Ok so you don't care why I don't believe why I have doubts. Thats fine. As I said I am still open for answers and I am looking. But I put faith in fact.



Ok.....you say you follow the teachings of Christ...and I can quote you on that.....yet.....1) you don't believe he was the begotten son of God; 2) you don't believe he was resurrected by God, from the dead; and most importantly 3) you don't believe he was even here on earth......

The following is a quote from your post #135 in when homosexual marriage was right...

"I am a free thinking Christian or a heretic Christian or not a Christian at all but I do my best to live by the teachings of Christ the man that walked the earth."

If he was never even here on earth...how can you follow his teachings? Or quote all of the things he is reported as saying in the bible? One of those sites you refered me to denounces the very beliefs that you have...and "teachings" you follow

http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_pocm.html

In trying to prove others wrong, you often contradict yourself Vicky, and regardless of what other members post to support you...your words speak for yourself...I believe what I believe and I stick to it...and I don't try to bring anyone else down...and I respect all other members who do the same...but you sometimes try too hard to shut down other people's beliefs because somehow they conflict with your thoughts..., and somehow construe your own thoughts in the process I guess...I found those sites interesting but I still believe what I do....despite your attempt to reveal something to me...in effect...you revealed to everyone your own contradictions......

Nothing further.....


Cool?....cool..... :cool:

Taken from John chapter 3: (Christ speaking)

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Cool?.....cool.... :cool:

Ok.....you say you follow the teachings of Christ...and I can quote you on that.....yet.....1) you don't believe he was the begotten son of God; 2) you don't believe he was resurrected by God, from the dead; and most importantly 3) you don't believe he was even here on earth......

The following is a quote from your post #135 in when homosexual marriage was right...

"I am a free thinking Christian or a heretic Christian or not a Christian at all but I do my best to live by the teachings of Christ the man that walked the earth."
Ok very good Rizzo now you are starting to ask the right questions.
The term "Christ the man who walked the earth" is a term to clarify that I do not follow all the other writings/laws opinions and so on, in the Bible. It is said to make it clear I do not believe all the other stuff in the Bible is the word of Christ. Moby Dick swam the sea. It’s a story could be based on truth. But I don’t think we will ever know
If he was never even here on earth...how can you follow his teachings?

Whether Christ lived or not is not important (For the lack of a better word) to me. It is in the Bible that he walked the earth and the teaching of a way of life attributed to him as his words are good to live by and I do. Does this help.

Or quote all of the things he is reported as saying in the bible? One of those sites you refered me to denounces the very beliefs that you have...and "teachings" you follow

http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_pocm.html

In trying to prove others wrong, you often contradict yourself Vicky,
Just because you can't grasp my position dose not mean others and myself don't understand it. It is you who wanted a yes or no answer. My faith is not yes or no it is; this is what I will believe until proven other wise. I will not keep saying the world is flat when I understand it to be round. I have not closed my mind to new and different possibilities. and regardless of what other members post to support you...your words speak for yourself...I believe what I believe and I stick to it...and I don't try to bring anyone else down...and I respect all other members who do the same...but you sometimes try too hard to shut down other people's beliefs because somehow they conflict with your thoughts..., and somehow construe your own thoughts in the process I guess...I found those sites interesting but I still believe what I do.... I only want people to see other possibilities. If your belief works for you great I mean that great. I am happy for you. But what I will speak out against is when someone uses their faith/belief to support inequality for other human beings based on their faith I must question their faith/belief. I will weigh the balance on my faith and show them hypocrisy. despite your attempt to reveal something to me...in effect...you revealed to everyone your own contradictions......

Nothing further.....


Cool?....cool..... :cool:

I only want people to see other possibilities. If your belief works for you great I mean that great. I am happy for you. But what I will speak out against is when someone uses their faith/belief to support inequality for other human beings based on their faith I must question their faith/belief. I will weigh the balance on my faith and show them hypocrisy.

Thing is Vicki, and I hope I'm wrong about this, but I keep sensing alot people on this thread among others think you are ignorant and that "CG", "Parietal_03" and others of similar ilk (labelled 'sympathizers') stand around to protect you with logic, reason and sound "pagan" philosophy.
I am ever so more the glad when a "Divide and Conquer" tactic is executed and the sole target shows his/her mettle.
I hope any other person who would assail any similar strategy would take note, survivors of a long hard life like Vicki are not, by default, weak and confused people. It takes a very stupid person to live a life like Vicki's and walk out of it knowing nothing about what they lived.
Any of the people here who've read the majority of the "long-winded" posts I procure, would remember a constant question: "We use it everyday, but how much does fire weigh?"
Fire...like Love, is something EVERY human ought to be capable of using everyday. The only means we have of measuring a fire is by studying it's burn/ after effects - and even then, you can only have a rough estimate. So how then, can you tell if the Bahamian Society IS in fact a "Christian" one.
Look to the "damage of love".

Point is this: You cannot claim to be Christian and not love, celebrate and embrace diversity. You don't have to be the diverse, as in many cases, of alternate sexual orientation or alternate religious/spiritual orientation but you MUST be around or in it. That's why Yeshua came down here. To be smack in the middle of The Pharisees, The Essenes (sp?), The Samaritians, The Greco-Romans, The Africans, The Ethiopians...etc. In order to accomplish the Will of YAHWEH, Yeshua had to be HERE.

"O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?"
Christianity cannot be found in a book, but its teachings can.
The question posed to the same audience: Where is your burn, what is your damage?

????? no rebuttal

????? no rebuttal

LOL Not yet.

Where is Rizzo did you run away. Cat got your keyboard?????

Nope...just that other forums have my keyboard... ;)

I've said my part on these topics and I don't see the need to repeat them. I've examined the comments made and I've made up my mind, whether it strengthened by faith or made me seek more knowledge. My decision is for my benefit only, and I have no need to state my stance on anything anymore. There is no point in going back and forth on topics that have no resolution in sight. I got what I could out of it and that's all that matters.

I have gotten enough knowledge that I deem substantial and respectable, from CG & parietal by conversing with them. They are the only people I see with a strong hold on their faith, who aren't Christians, that I needed an understanding of.

So Good luck with all of you, in your debates on religion, but I'll keep my posts for other forums. :bye:


Cool?....cool.... :walk: