I already know you lincoln -
(Michael from high school)

Link...you don't mind if I call u that do you?

I'd like to know more about you so I can know which angle you are coming from when you make your posts...it helps to understand the tone a person sets in their posts.

Therefore, do you read the bible alot?

Yeah you can call me that. Yeah, a read it a lot more than most people in bible school. I went through the entire book back to front so many times that I stopped counting. But I now realize that just reading it from front to back means nothing. you still see and don't see.

Do you believe the bible is authentic documentation dating back to the time of Jesus?

HELL NO!!!1 It has some authenticity left in it but you have to be an absolute numb scull to not realized what the catholics did to the scriptures. The bible dates back to before jesus. It was formed by the jews during the babylonian captivity, hence the name bible/babel. They put a few books that they had together so they wouldn't forget god and his laws. The Babs were trying to wipe out there culture as all oppressor to this day do. The bible as we know it today was put together and edited by constantines cronies sometime around 325 ad. It was again edited later by King James. The actual original scripts of the bible are lost forever.

Do you believe Jesus was the son of God?

Yep. But so are you. So am I: That is the gospel, That is the god news. Before we had to call him by his name like strangers 'Jehovah' But now we can call him FATHER. jesus said we are no longer servants but now we are SONS. He said we are his brothers: that, my brother is the GOSPEL.

Do you believe in heaven?

YEP. ea means spirit; en means in. Heaven means in the spirit. We are in the physical. God is in heaven in the spirit.

Do your spiritual beliefs affect how you act/behave throughout your daily life?

Yes. It does. walk with me for a day and if you don't see something different then something is wrong.

Oh, and thanks for clearing up that baptist thing, I was wondering if you were meaning your family was baptist you know :) but I wasn't sure so I said I'd ask...

I grew up baptist but now I'm saved.
I currently sing with a group called VISION. We did a remake of Miles Monroes song Brand New World

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo
Do you believe Jesus was the son of God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln
Yep. But so are you. So am I: That is the gospel, That is the god news. Before we had to call him by his name like strangers 'Jehovah' But now we can call him FATHER. jesus said we are no longer servants but now we are SONS. He said we are his brothers: that, my brother is the GOSPEL.

Quote: The Bible

John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is my understanding that you have to accept Jesus as the Son of God and the Only way to God in order to become a Son of God

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Also he went to prepare a place for us in his Father's mansion:
John 14:2-3
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Are you saying that heaven is in us and Jesus is not coming back for us?
:confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo
Do you believe Jesus was the son of God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln
Yep. But so are you. So am I: That is the gospel, That is the god news. Before we had to call him by his name like strangers 'Jehovah' But now we can call him FATHER. jesus said we are no longer servants but now we are SONS. He said we are his brothers: that, my brother is the GOSPEL.

Quote: The Bible

John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It is my understanding that you have to accept Jesus as the Son of God and the Only way to God in order to become a Son of God

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Also he went to prepare a place for us in his Father's mansion:


Paul said "as by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Rom 5:12
"Nevertheless death reigned from adam to moses even over them that had not sinned like adam, who is the figure of him that was to come" Rom 5:14
"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous"

In short Adam sinned- everyone doomed.
The second Adam (Jesus) didn't sin- Everyone saved.
Paul said sin came with the law. Before the law there was no sin. Law was until john (Lk 16:16) So sin gone to. Could this be?
Some stress commandments But..."therefore by the deeds of law shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"But god commanded his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners christ died for us."

John 14:2-3
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Are you saying that heaven is in us and Jesus is not coming back for us?
:confused:

Everytime Jesus spoke spiritually the bible says his disciples took it literally and therefore misunderstood what he was saying. This was a very spiritual statement.
This is not literal how could mansions literally be in a house.
Christ didn't go anywhere. he is in us!
Where I am was not talking about a place it was talking about a state of mind, of being; what ever you want to call it.
I am not saying that heaven is in us and Jesus is not coming back for us. Jesus is coming back. But just as the jews misinterpreted is last coming and expected it the wrong way so will the religious people of our day misinterpret his next coming. (he is here!)
And about heaven; it is more than the church makes it out to be. This place above the skies. It is another realm all togerther.

Everything Lincoln said...

Endorsed and Seconded.

"Paradise" is the name of the place.

Oh, and bsm Can you help me with something. CAN YOU SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS WE (OR ALL THE CHRISTIANS) ARE GOING TO HEAVEN. I challenged alot of pastors on this one, all came up empty. I am not challenging you on this I would honestly like to see it in scripture cause I haven't found it. Now I did see in Rev. it says the Kingdom of god would come down here.
thanks

Everything Lincoln said...

Endorsed and Seconded.

"Paradise" is the name of the place.


I highly respect and value both of your opinions.

But the bible says that Jesus ascended into the air, later it says he returns and we are caught up into the air to meet him.

I understand that the Holy Spirit comes to live in us - as Christ in us, not as Christ being here.

Why don't you two expand so that i may understand you more fully.

He was seen ascending into the air, so how can he still be here?

Oh, and bsm Can you help me with something. CAN YOU SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS WE (OR ALL THE CHRISTIANS) ARE GOING TO HEAVEN. I challenged alot of pastors on this one, all came up empty. I am not challenging you on this I would honestly like to see it in scripture cause I haven't found it. Now I did see in Rev. it says the Kingdom of god would come down here.
thanks


I belive you are correct that we are going to be taken to heaven, but that it will come down new, along with a new earth. And we will live with Jesus and God in the new Jerusalem/Heaven/Earth?


the closest I could find at this time is the following, which suggests he is coming from heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

here he seems to be descending from heaven, gathering us up into the air, and saying that we will 'ever' be with him.

I highly respect and value both of your opinions.

But the bible says that Jesus ascended into the air, later it says he returns and we are caught up into the air to meet him.

I understand that the Holy Spirit comes to live in us - as Christ in us, not as Christ being here.

Why don't you two expand so that i may understand you more fully.

He was seen ascending into the air, so how can he still be here?

That is the beautiful mystery. I saw a little birdie ascend into the this morning. According to you he is with the father now. Heaven is not in the air They saw Jesus ascend into the Not Christ. The same way god could be in heaven yet be on earth to be crucified Jesus can be in heaven and in us and around us.
The scripture you quoted also says a TRUMPET will sound. Come on. Do you take that literally also. I better learn to play the trumpet maybe he will allow me to blow it on that day.
Jesus himself explain how he can be in heaven and on earth. You say he is God. God has no physical limitations. He is omni present so why can't he be here and there. Don't put mans limitations on God when trying to analyze him.
Read John 14 Jesus said he was Going to be with the father but he will still be here with us.
He also said I will ask Father to sent you a comforter...I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you....a little while while and the world see me no more yet you see me...I am in my father you in me and I in you...etc.
Hey the scripture you quoted about Meeting him in the air You should read it from the beginning ( the church never does) 1cor 15. It shows the misteachings of the disciples and the church.
The disciples were teaching that there would be no resurrection. The argued with science saying you would not have a body so how could you resurrect. Paul was arguing against them saying that we while have a new type of body etc. then he reveals I'll show you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall ALL be changed ...
The church wont read this cause they don't want you to know that the disciples and the church the same ones who brought you the new testament taught folly.

Teach em Lincoln teach em
Maybe they will hear you.

:shaky: :dancer: The cheerleader's back!!! :dancer: :shaky:

The scripture you quoted also says a TRUMPET will sound. Come on. Do you take that literally also. I better learn to play the trumpet maybe he will allow me to blow it on that day.


1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Further to that I just read a while ago that the Israelites heard trumpets blowing while Moses was receiveing the 10 commandments -

Exodus 20:18

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

- of course they were in the viscinity to hear it, but I honestly believe that all will hear the trumpet when Christ returns.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I also beleive that every eye will see him coming with clouds - I am told that clouds are synonamous with angels.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:30-31
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

this is why 1 Thessalonians 4:17 sas we will be caught up, and why Jesus said 'go not forth', Matthew 24:26, because the angels will come for us and lift us up into the air.

I was asking you if you were saying that Christ is not going to return for us because he is already in us?

Teach em Lincoln teach em
Maybe they will hear you.


Funny you didn't cheer for him when he said that homosexuality was a sin, or did you miss that post?

For your convenience ... :D
http://www.bahamasissues.com/showpost.php?p=11911&postcount=43

According to you he is with the father now. Heaven is not in the air They saw Jesus ascend into the Not Christ.


Is Jesus not Christ?

Sounds similar to this ...

Luke 22:67-70
Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe: And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go. Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

seems to me that he is referred to in numerous ways, indeed more than 50 ways in the bible.

According to Jesus he went to prepare a place for us - in his father's mansion.

John 14:2-3

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

he left, he will return, and he will take us to be where he is. Doesn't sound like he is in us and not returning to collect us and take us back with him.

Heaven may not be int the air as in our atmosphere but it is up and out there somewhere, perhaps in space? All of these verses speak of ascending up into heaven or descending from heaven:

An angel descended from heaven ...

Matthew 28:2
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

The disciples watched him ascend up into heaven ...

Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Luke 24:51
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

He ascended and descended from heaven ...

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

He could ascend up to where he was before ...

John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

He is going ascending to his Father ...

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

-----


The church wont read this cause they don't want you to know that the disciples and the church the same ones who brought you the new testament taught folly.


Which folly do you speak of? Please enlighten us. Maybe even start another thread.

Is Jesus not Christ?

Sounds similar to this ...

Luke 22:67-70
Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe: And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go. Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

As I have posted before Christ refered to him self as the Son of Man. You go against what he says and call him the "Son of God"
Do you deny what Christ said about himself? Or do you just make it up as you see fit?
from post 26 greatest tricks

Another thing too CG is many of the christian denominations are not teaching salvation comes through faith in christ at all, and are more 'works' oriented. But nobody can be saved by works alone because everyone is a sinner and even saved people still sin from time to time, but all we have to do now is ask for forgiveness and continue to repent(turn away from sin) - no need for animal sacrifices anymore.

Jesus always stresses that faith in him as the son of God was is the only way to be saved.

their are many churches that call themselves christian, but they do not teach that salvation comes by faith. I have even read of catholic priests and nuns who left the catholic religion and they said for up to 15 years some of them were never taught that faith in Jesus is required for salvation - but they were following the commandments and praying and doing good works for years and rarely even heard of Jesus in their churches, they were always works oriented, and because of the structured nature of the religion, many were just following orders handed down to them like soldiers and got in trouble if they protested.

here are 2 links - a former nun and priest speak out ...
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r010.html
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r011.html

note that catholic religion is considered christian, but notice how much things they point out and how much resistance they got for following their bibles instead of the orders from the top.



seems to me that he is referred to in numerous ways, indeed more than 50 ways in the bible.

According to Jesus he went to prepare a place for us - in his father's mansion.

John 14:2-3

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
"many mansions" would indacate many doors many doors would indacate many paths/walkways. Do you realy think they are all the same???
he left, he will return, and he will take us to be where he is. Doesn't sound like he is in us and not returning to collect us and take us back with him.

Heaven may not be int the air as in our atmosphere but it is up and out there somewhere, perhaps in space? All of these verses speak of ascending up into heaven or descending from heaven: HHHmm maybe the Creator drives a space ship. "Beem me up Scotty"


An angel descended from heaven ...

Matthew 28:2
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

The disciples watched him ascend up into heaven ...

Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Luke 24:51
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

He ascended and descended from heaven ...

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

He could ascend up to where he was before ...

John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

He is going ascending to his Father ...

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

-----



Which folly do you speak of? Please enlighten us. Maybe even start another thread.