1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Further to that I just read a while ago that the Israelites heard trumpets blowing while Moses was receiveing the 10 commandments -

Exodus 20:18

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

- of course they were in the viscinity to hear it, but I honestly believe that all will hear the trumpet when Christ returns.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I also beleive that every eye will see him coming with clouds - I am told that clouds are synonamous with angels.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:30-31
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

this is why 1 Thessalonians 4:17 sas we will be caught up, and why Jesus said 'go not forth', Matthew 24:26, because the angels will come for us and lift us up into the air.

I was asking you if you were saying that Christ is not going to return for us because he is already in us?

Maybe His coming will be televised so everyone can see it.
The son of God- Christ- will not return to us from the sky. He will come forth through us to the world.
The son of Man- Jesus- sits in the spirit/heaven at the fathers right hand (I guess if he sat at the left the stupid church cause left was evil/gay). He will return as we all will. What paul said was a mystery (like he said) he was touching on something. It is not to be taken literally.

LINK (http://www.randi.org/jr/022004demons.html#11)

Check the Section entitled, The Genesis of The Bible

Feel free to browse the other commentaries.

http://www.randi.org/jr/archive.html

The man gives me side pains from laughing.

LINK (http://www.randi.org/jr/022004demons.html#11)

Check the Section entitled, The Genesis of The Bible

Feel free to browse the other commentaries.

http://www.randi.org/jr/archive.html

The man gives me side pains from laughing.


i like this one from there ...

"Not only does science know why the tsunami happened, it can give precious hours of warning. If a small fraction of the tax breaks handed out to churches, mosques and synagogues had been diverted into an early warning system, tens of thousands of people, now dead, would have been moved to safety.

Let's get up off our knees, stop cringing before bogeymen and virtual fathers, face reality, and help science to do something constructive about human suffering."

Maybe His coming will be televised so everyone can see it.
The son of God- Christ- will not return to us from the sky. He will come forth through us to the world.
The son of Man- Jesus- sits in the spirit/heaven at the fathers right hand (I guess if he sat at the left the stupid church cause left was evil/gay). He will return as we all will. What paul said was a mystery (like he said) he was touching on something. It is not to be taken literally.


funny you say that ... some persons suggest that the following scene will be displayed all over the world by television so everyone will be able to see it, at least those with television sets. Who knows? After all, you said revelation is only a dream, and needs to be interpreted.

Revelation 11
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

John 19:12-14 (New International Version)

12From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jews kept shouting, “If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.”
13When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge's seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour.
“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

Matthew 26:17-20 (New International Version)
The Lord's Supper
17On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”
18He replied, “Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, ‘The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.’ ” 19So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.
20When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve.

Do you see something wrong here?
2 very different stories.
John writes that Pilot presents Jesus to the Jews and says here is your king. Before the Passover.
Matthew writes that Jesus celebrated Passover as the last supper.

HHHHmmm Can’t be in 2 places at once for Passover. Or did Pilot release Jesus for Passover???

Do you see something wrong here?
2 very different stories.
John writes that Pilot presents Jesus to the Jews and says here is your king. Before the Passover.
Matthew writes that Jesus celebrated Passover as the last supper.

HHHHmmm Can’t be in 2 places at once for Passover. Or did Pilot release Jesus for Passover???


LOL, waste of time. Like trying to explain how The Bible supports reincarnation.
"...to dust thou shalt REturn."

A central theme and tenet of Christianity is the resurrection story. Could someone please tell me which story is true? Who visited the tomb the day after Jesus' resurrection and what did they observed upon approaching and entering the tomb? Read the four accounts of each Gospels and let me know.
I read three different accounts, excluding Mark who does not go into any great details after Jesus' resurrection.

A central theme and tenet of Christianity is the resurrection story. Could someone please tell me which story is true? Who visited the tomb the day after Jesus' resurrection and what did they observed upon approaching and entering the tomb? Read the four accounts of each Gospels and let me know.
I read three different accounts, excluding Mark who does not go into any great details after Jesus' resurrection.

Matthew wrote "28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."

Mark wrote "16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body."

Luke wrote "24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb."

John wrote "10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.'

I don't see much contradiction here. It is clear that Mary Magdalene was there. Mary was there, which Mary that was might be is in question. Was it Mary the Mother of Jesus? I would be surprise if she was not there.

The thing is these are four accounts of the same story. We can see in our local papers that the Tribune, the Guardian, the Punch, and the Source can all report the same story but the facts can differ. Had the Christians wanted to "fake" this story they would have made sure that all four accounts agreed. The fact is that there were four accounts, directed at four differ groups of people, written by four different men.

Who was there? It is clear that is was the women. Where were the guys?

What is important is not who was there but that Jesus had risen. All agree on that!

Matthew wrote "28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."

Mark wrote "16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body."

Luke wrote "24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb."

John wrote "10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.'

I don't see much contradiction here. It is clear that Mary Magdalene was there. Mary was there, which Mary that was might be is in question. Was it Mary the Mother of Jesus? I would be surprise if she was not there.

The thing is these are four accounts of the same story. We can see in our local papers that the Tribune, the Guardian, the Punch, and the Source can all report the same story but the facts can differ. Had the Christians wanted to "fake" this story they would have made sure that all four accounts agreed. Someone making up the story would mix it up a bit for the same reason. To unbelievable for all stories to be the same. They are but with different words. Please note I am not disputing the resurrection story. The fact is that there were four accounts, directed at four differ groups of people, written by four different men.

Who was there? It is clear that is was the women. Where were the guys?

What is important is not who was there but that Jesus had risen. All agree on that!

The point made is that there are differences and situations that just don't add up in the Bible the so said to be the unaltered ultimate word of God/the Creator.

CG you did not answer the second part of the question. Who or what exactly did these visitors to Jesus' tomb observe upon approaching and/or entering the tomb. The fact that the account of who were the exact first witnesses to the resurrecction is in doubt, is not in my estimation an endorsement of said story, but an indictment of this tale and its supposed authors.

The Guardian, The Tribune and The Punch may appear to relay a similar account from different perspectives, but the details usually remain the same. Simularity in content is extremely important when relaying historical events, even more so with the resurrection story. Details have to be exacting regarding fabulous tales, especially when you are trying to convince a skeptical crowd.

Matthew wrote "28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."

Mark wrote "16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body."

Luke wrote "24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb."

John wrote "10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.'

I don't see much contradiction here. It is clear that Mary Magdalene was there. Mary was there, which Mary that was might be is in question. Was it Mary the Mother of Jesus? I would be surprise if she was not there.

The thing is these are four accounts of the same story. We can see in our local papers that the Tribune, the Guardian, the Punch, and the Source can all report the same story but the facts can differ. Had the Christians wanted to "fake" this story they would have made sure that all four accounts agreed. The fact is that there were four accounts, directed at four differ groups of people, written by four different men.

Who was there? It is clear that is was the women. Where were the guys?

What is important is not who was there but that Jesus had risen. All agree on that!

In those day a woman as a witness was not considered credible or admissable, only a man's eyewitness account.
Before we jump to the conclusion that Jesus had risen, we need corroborating evidence to substantiate this fabulous claim made by these women, especially for us modern day doubting Thomases. Therefore, the details regarding who was at the tomb and what they observed was and is very pertinent to the resurrection story. Unless of course, christians don't want us to examine the details of this tale too closely, fearing we might stumble upon a falsehood or inconsistencies.

CG you did not answer the second part of the question.
You are right! I missed that,

Matthew says "There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you." So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples."

So Matthew says they saw an angel. And they ran to tell the disciples

Mark says " As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. "Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.
But go, tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.'" Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

So Mark says it was a young man and that the women were afraid to tell anyone what they saw.

Luke says "They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.'" Then they remembered his words. When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.

So, Luke says it was two men and that the women went and told the others.

John is the most interesting. He says " Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!" So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.) Then the disciples went back to their homes."

John says it was the disciples Then he adds something else.

"but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot. They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?" "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him." Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher). Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

Who or what exactly did these visitors to Jesus' tomb observe upon approaching and/or entering the tomb. The fact that the account of who were the exact first witnesses to the resurrecction is in doubt, is not in my estimation an endorsement of said story, but an indictment of this tale and its supposed authors

Some accounts say that one man, or Angel was there. Some say two Angels. Some accounts say the women were there, some say the disciples.. Some accounts say the women told the disciples, other say that they did not. Only one account mentions someone seeing Jesus there.

On the surface these are conflicting accounts. And I must say that in a Court of Law these testimonies would raise doubts! But what all agree on is that Jesus was not in the tomb. That is the main thrust of all the accounts. Are there any facts to show he had risen? No, there are none. These conflicting stories do not help matters. But as the story goes on, one hears of Jesus appearing to other people and even to Doubting Thomas to show that he was alive. This seemed to satisfy Thomas who went on to India to start a church there. It seems to satisfy countless Christian from that time to this.

The burden of proof in spiritual matters are not the facts of the stories, but the stories themselves. If the stories produce belief then they have served there purpose.

I can only answer as a Buddhist. Do the conflicts in the stories bother me? Not at all. Many religions have conflicting stories, few see them as facts as the Christian does, but they see them as stories to engender faith and hope. These stories, when read as facts, leave us cold and are full of holes. But when read as metaphor they open us up to the spiritual.

But enough of a Buddhist trying to defend a Christian story! Let's hear from the Christians!


.

Very good answer CG. If Christians did not take these stories literally, they would have nothing to defend because the resurrection story has more holes than swiss cheese. Live your life and let others live theirs. Everything will work itself out in the end without the help of religious fanatics.

The point made is that there are differences and situations that just don't add up in the Bible the so said to be the unaltered ultimate word of God/the Creator.

Here is the Buddhist defending the Bible again! Where are the "People of the Book?"

The Bible is not a book of logic, few Holy Books of any religion are logical. They are spiritual documents and must be read as such.

Logically, 1x1=2. In spiritual matters 1x1 can = 6, or 7 or at the same time 6 and 7. The art of logic is a man-made thing. God's do not understand it - they do not need things to add up.

Here is the Buddhist defending the Bible again! Where are the "People of the Book?"

They probably still "wex." Ain't I tell ya'll te fallout from that "Christ was conceived in adultery" comment was ga be BEEG?