Thanks Vicky, I have read your responses. Gradually I am understanding your views

You seem to take issue with my referring to God as a Him. As you know, the English Language is not exact in many ways and you can loosely use "him" to refer to females also. Sometimes women themselves refer to each other as "You guys", and the Bible many times uses the male pronoun "him" to also refer to females.
Sorry if you misunderstood I don't take any issues to anyone’s reference to the Creator or God. I take no issue with any reference to the gender that people perceive of the Creator or God. I was explaining to you my view as to the gender or perception of the Creator. This next explanation might help as well.
The best reference I see of the Creator is the Yen Yang symbol. The circle being the complete Creator. Divided in 2 major parts with a part of each opposite parts with in each other. The circle contains 2 equal halves 1 good 1 evil one male one female 1 positive 1 negative 1 up 1 down. Each one of these sides has a small piece of the opposite in it and the all make the whole.
Good cannot exist with out bad. How can you go up if you can't go down? Dose this help??

I believe that books can be said to be alive if they carry an inspirational message that would give the human heart a good feeling and help one to live a better life. That's my personal belief, which can probably also be in the category of English being used loosely, or as a figure of speech.

When the Bible uses expressions like "the four corners of the earth", and "the sun moving around the earth", though these statements are unscientific, maybe they were used for the understanding of the people during those times when the scientific facts were not yet known.
Ah my point made. Faith is faith fact is fact. Should your life be dictated by someone’s faith???? There are many questionable references in the Bible that we read to day. Translators had a hard time simple proof "The horse is fast" and "The horse is fast" 2 completely different meanings.
Now think about the language of the Israelites at the time when all this religious traditions came about. Did they have the vocabulary to choose from like we have today? NO. It is know that much of their language was used in context with words spoken or written with another. Another reference. The word in the Bible that was translated to mean "soft" combined with man seems to now equal homosexual in the interpretation now a days. How does soft equal homosexuality??? It could mean a man that is softhearted and very forgiving. It could mean a man that is not a he man/macho man.


I agree that December 25 and Easter are Pagan holidays. It seems that some Christians are aware of this and some are not! And there are some Christians who don't celebrate them either. Some KNOW that the Bible states that the 7th day is the sabbath, but still yet regard the 1st day as the sabbath.

From your previous posts I notice that you don't seem to think highly of St Paul, who most Christians believe was the greatest Christian (other than Christ Himself) who ever walked the earth. He actually gave up his life for the gospel after his life was changed. I sometimes wonder why he was not trenslated to heaven like Elijah and Enoch!
Christ gave us the way. No funny hats robes or church buildings. Christ gave us a way that we don't need all the rubish of ritual ceromonies. Its plan simple and it works.
Paul (if he even existed) turned it into a religion a religion of what to do and when to do it. He even returned to the other disiples to show and give them money he had colleted for his brand of Christanity. In Pauls religion the money was obivously a factor. In Christ way its was the gift from the heart no matter how little. Remember the story when the deciples tried to hurry an old woman along who only had a small coin to give and Christ taught how that one little coin was worth more that all the money given to him. Because it was all the woman had. She gave it out of love. Do you understand now???

While I am addressing you, I would like mention something which might shed some light on what is probably a kind of conflict between you and other Christians on this forum. I have a feeling you may already know this.

There are a number of places where the Bible just about condemn homosexuals and lesbians. (You also said that your status -- transgender is also in the Bible). Now here is the little messy dilemma. Scientists and medical doctors have evidence that many persons are born homosexual, lesbian and transgender. Even some of the young school children right in the Bahamas know this! And I believe many Christians know this also!

But therein lies the problem. It is hard for the average Christian to bring him or herself to accept this, as there is no preponderance of evidence in the Bible that persons are born that way!
Please read
Matthew 19
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Christ teachs that there are some born that will not fit the male or female roll.
So their position will be to believe the Creator (ie the Bible) rather than man (ie the doctors and scientists).
Its about power and greed. Christian leaders have used fear and hate as a tool/weapon so they can have more money and power. Even to this day right on Bay Street at the anti gay cruise rally they tried to link homosexual love between 2 consenting adults to the rape and murder of a young boy. They also asked for money, they had collection plates being passed around.
If you want more as to the atrocities look up "The Burning Times" Look up the "Witches Hammer" Look up "The Inquisition" Want more Look up "The Crusades"
There is one thing leaders do to unit people and that is to make them fear something. Fear leads to hate and leads to violence. Each new fact erases the old fact (even the ones based on faith). We are in that time of change when the old fact that the Creator hates GLBTs is being erased because in fact it is being proven that we are born this way there for the Creator created all.

It is very bad that this is so, and I just hope that there can be some kind of resolution to this problem -- there are probably persons of this status in every family; there are some in mine.

Thanks Vicky and CG, I have read your posts (Numbers 59, 60 and 61).

At one point CG mentioned that true Christians are few and and far between. Perhaps this brings true what I have mentioned in other posts, ie, what was pointed out in the book of Revelation that Christ was satisfied with only 2 out of the 7 churches. That works out to slightly over 28%. And Bible scholars interpret that to mean that only 28% of those claiming to be Christians really are!

On my daughter's murder, it was a terrible feeling, difficult to describe. Many times I would ask the Lord on my knees to please not let something like that happen to any of my other 3 children, that I would rather that He would take my life first than for me to undergo that amount of grief and pain again. Wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. That happened 17 years ago.

At that time, I was in favour of capital punishment and I felt that whoever was involved should have been hanged! But a few months after my daughters's funeral, an incident happened on my job that changed my attitude about hangings. The general manager of the company was trying his best to fire me for no reason! He called me into his office and gave all kinds of trumped up lies to "prove" to me that I should be dismissed! I refused to sign off on his statement. I told him to check with his manager who was stationed in Canada at the time.

It hurt my feelings so much to see that I had already spent 15 years with the company and they were trying to fire me for nothing! When I left his office, I felt like I was going insane. All I could do was walk up and down the building for about an hour to try to "catch myself". And here is the serious part: something I felt absolutely sure I would or could never do. But during that hour or so that I was trying to calm down, I felt sure that If I could have gotten hold of a gun, I would have shot the GM to death. I always had a hatred for guns. I heard of men who used to carry guns in their back trunks in those days, and I thank God that I never did or even thought of owning one, never held one in my hand.

I went home that night and cried and prayed. I could not for the life of me believe that I of all people could entertain the thought of taking another human's life! WHO? ME? NO WAY!!! I felt very terrible about myself. I kind of made a vow that NEVER again would I even think of something like that! It was like something had emerged about myself, my personality, that I knew nothing of!

But the upshot of it was the impression it left on my mind. I got the impression that just about anybody can commit murder if something very unfair happens to them and if they let anger get the better of their emotion. It has also caused me to become against capital punishment; if anyone can commit murder, then why put anyone to death for committing it!

But if I were a member of parliament I would not vote for capital punishment to be abolished unless some kind of other more lenient punishment be put in its place. Especially considering how blood thirsty Bahamians are now becoming. My heavens, there were 3 murders in just this week alone! People now seem to want to kill at the drop of a hat! And this is sad for our Bahamaland.

As the saying goes, wisdom comes with age. Hope that as the nation ages we would become wiser and exercise more self control.

Great Demos
When was the book of Revelation written??? And who wrote it???
I don't believe in the gloom and doom that is in the book of Revelation. Yes there is and end coming but not as we expect it not as we are taught. Just as the Israelites were expecting the messiah to be a great and powerful king that with a thought could give them victory and freedom from the Romans, I feel we are mistaken about the book of Revelation. To me the Book of revelation talks of a time of change not an end where there is nothing. If the Creator wanted there to be nothing the Creator would not have created in the first place.
As I said there are many paths to the houses in heaven Christ speaks of. The many paths are as individual as you are. We all serve the Creators purpose.
People of all religions and non religions. (Not just Christians)

At one point CG mentioned that true Christians are few and and far between. Perhaps this brings true what I have mentioned in other posts, ie, what was pointed out in the book of Revelation that Christ was satisfied with only 2 out of the 7 churches. That works out to slightly over 28%. And Bible scholars interpret that to mean that only 28% of those claiming to be Christians really are!
Perhaps 28% is optimistic!

On my daughter's murder, it was a terrible feeling, difficult to describe. Many times I would ask the Lord on my knees to please not let something like that happen to any of my other 3 children, that I would rather that He would take my life first than for me to undergo that amount of grief and pain again. Wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. That happened 17 years ago.At that time, I was in favour of capital punishment and I felt that whoever was involved should have been hanged!
I should imagine that there is hardly a day that goes by that you don't think about it. People who kill should think about the fact that their victim is not the only person that is hurt.

But a few months after my daughters's funeral, an incident happened on my job that changed my attitude about hangings. The general manager of the company was trying his best to fire me for no reason! He called me into his office and gave all kinds of trumped up lies to "prove" to me that I should be dismissed! I refused to sign off on his statement. I told him to check with his manager who was stationed in Canada at the time.

It hurt my feelings so much to see that I had already spent 15 years with the company and they were trying to fire me for nothing! When I left his office, I felt like I was going insane. All I could do was walk up and down the building for about an hour to try to "catch myself". And here is the serious part: something I felt absolutely sure I would or could never do. But during that hour or so that I was trying to calm down, I felt sure that If I could have gotten hold of a gun, I would have shot the GM to death. I always had a hatred for guns. I heard of men who used to carry guns in their back trunks in those days, and I thank God that I never did or even thought of owning one, never held one in my hand.

I went home that night and cried and prayed. I could not for the life of me believe that I of all people could entertain the thought of taking another human's life! WHO? ME? NO WAY!!! I felt very terrible about myself. I kind of made a vow that NEVER again would I even think of something like that! It was like something had emerged about myself, my personality, that I knew nothing of!
What a story! You had, what we Buddhists call an awakening. You were wise enough to heed it and not to shake it off.

But the upshot of it was the impression it left on my mind. I got the impression that just about anybody can commit murder if something very unfair happens to them and if they let anger get the better of their emotion. It has also caused me to become against capital punishment; if anyone can commit murder, then why put anyone to death for committing it!
We are never sure what we are capable of until we are pushed. The "trick" is not to live by our emotions. They can be to easily fooled.

But if I were a member of parliament I would not vote for capital punishment to be abolished unless some kind of other more lenient punishment be put in its place. Especially considering how blood thirsty Bahamians are now becoming. My heavens, there were 3 murders in just this week alone! People now seem to want to kill at the drop of a hat! And this is sad for our Bahamaland.
Three murders in one week! Did you ever think you would live to see the day?

We have gained much in these islands but we have lost much too!

As the saying goes, wisdom comes with age. Hope that as the nation ages we would become wiser and exercise more self control.
I share you hope, but I doubt it will happen until we turn around our values and thinking.

If you are talking about peace in the world (no wars etc.) then yes, all religions, including Christianity have failed. But I don't think that is the peace that all these religions are talking about, including Christianity.

The nature of the human is one of conflict. We have two major conflicts. One is with each other. We hate, we fight, we kill other for a number of reasons. The second is conflict within our own egos that drives us to do the things mentioned in the first conflict.

Religion does not, necessarily, bring peace to the world. It brings it to the human heart, one person at a time. It is the "fix" for the human ego. When Jesus, and others, said that they came to bring peace, that was the peace they were talking about, the stopping of the war within the human heart. That has not failed. There are millions upon uncounted millions who have achieved this peace. The problem is, there are many more millions who have not and cannot because they see religion as another weapon to add to their arsenal of weapons to use against others. They cannot see the peace religion offers. They have not experienced the death of the ego. The "Big Three" Judaism, Islam, and Christianity lead the world in using religion as a weapon. The "Big Three" acknowledge this with the greatest regret. Yet, no religion can claim "clean hands" here.

I don't know if you saw the TV show, "The West Wing" last Wednesday. President Bartlett called the Palestinians and the Israeli leaders to talk peace. There was tension in the air. There was one scene where all sides took a break to worship. Outside were the Palestinians, worshiping Allah. Inside were the Jews celebrating and worshiping Jehovah. It was a troubling scene because they were all worshiping the same God but their human egos got in the way. It stood in the way of worshiping together and to finding a solution to their problems. Their religions became a stumbling block, a thing that divided and wounded - not as it should be, a thing that mends!

There is no world peace. There never will be. But don't worry about it. Seek the peace in the heart. Christianity can do this, as can others, once we understand what the peace is that they are talking about - God's peace. Once found it lives in the human heart, not in the world.


very intriguing words CG never thought of religion as a patch or fix the broken minds/hearts of men.

And I very much agree that those affected by all the various religions tend to appear to be fixed after they practice. I know for a fact that a friend of mind as well as myself have learned to see the world from a relatively higher plane from reading non-religious motivational books and by working at developing our characters without using religion or church. And I find it much easier to bear the ways of the world now than I did before.

We are now both more patient, more understanding, etc - but we still have problems obeying the 10 commandments. Even being married does not curve our apetite to want more than one women in our lives.

I think the 10 commandments are the hardest rules ever created.

There are a number of places where the Bible just about condemn homosexuals and lesbians. (You also said that your status -- transgender is also in the Bible). Now here is the little messy dilemma. Scientists and medical doctors have evidence that many persons are born homosexual, lesbian and transgender. Even some of the young school children right in the Bahamas know this! And I believe many Christians know this also!

But therein lies the problem. It is hard for the average Christian to bring him or herself to accept this, as there is no preponderance of evidence in the Bible that persons are born that way! So their position will be to believe the Creator (ie the Bible) rather than man (ie the doctors and scientists).

It is very bad that this is so, and I just hope that there can be some kind of resolution to this problem there are probably persons of this status in every family; there are some in mine.


I agree, I guess, with what you said above. However, only some christians have a problem them. I personally don't have a problem with them being born that way, I do have a problem with them wanting to be married and having sexual intercourse with members of the same sex.

As for those born with both organs I honestly don't know what they are to do, because if you are both male and female based on genitals you can't avoid marrying the same sex since you have both. But aren't we all half male and half female? aren't we all created from dna from a male and female?

and Vicky how can you say you only follow Jesus' teachings, when Jesus himself speaks of his father, and the comforter that he was to send for the desciples? And who was Jesus shouting to on the cross, and praying to before Judas came to betray him? Also didn't Jesus defend himself against Satan with verses from the Old Testament that you say you do not regard.

I'm puzzled, how can you follow Jesus and deny the existence of the very God that Jesus prayed to and spoke to? Didn't he also say that no man can get to the father but by him?

Wow is not the Creator powerful enough just the think them out of existence. Sorry even the genocide in the Bible is not of the Creators doing and yet it is. For nothing can exist or happen with out the Creator having planed it.
But what would have happened if the Israelites lost the fight to get into the promised land. Who would have wrote the story how would it read.


It is my understanding, Vicky, that God creates us all with free will. We are free to do what he wants and free to do our own thing.

However there are times in the bible when God destroys, or is aid to have destroyed whole city because of wickedness. It can be said that the fire and brimstone that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah came from a nearby exploding volcano and that lot was able to tell that the volcano was about to explode and just made up the story that God was doing it - it's plausible, I guess.

But if we stick to 'biblical fact' that God has ordered death in the past why has he stopped? is this because Jesus died for our sins? So God does not step in any more and will let Jesus do the judging when he returns in the future?

I agree, I guess, with what you said above. However, only some christians have a problem them. I personally don't have a problem with them being born that way, I do have a problem with them wanting to be married and having sexual intercourse with members of the same sex.

As for those born with both organs I honestly don't know what they are to do, because if you are both male and female based on genitals you can't avoid marrying the same sex since you have both. But aren't we all half male and half female? aren't we all created from dna from a male and female?

and Vicky how can you say you only follow Jesus' teachings, when Jesus himself speaks of his father, and the comforter that he was to send for the desciples? And who was Jesus shouting to on the cross, and praying to before Judas came to betray him? Also didn't Jesus defend himself against Satan with verses from the Old Testament that you say you do not regard.

I'm puzzled, how can you follow Jesus and deny the existence of the very God that Jesus prayed to and spoke to? Didn't he also say that no man can get to the father but by him?

I do not deny the existents of the Creator. I deny that the Bible is total fact and that it is the only way that the Creator speaks to us.
Here is a bit of my belief.
1 the Creator has made it self known to mankind in many forms and names. Thus I say Creator not God.
2 Christ was a child of the Creator as we are all children of the Creator. Christ was just more in tune.
3 the Creator knows all past present and future. Thus the Creator knows knew every key I have touched to type this post before the earth came into existence. There for I can’t changes what the Creator already knows of me and what I will do the choices I make are already known to the Creator.
4 The Creator is best represented by the Yen Yang symbol. A complete circles no beginning and no ending. In to parts of good and evil male and female positive and negative making the complete Creator. Each half has a part of the other half in it.
There is no way as humans can understand good if we do not understand bad.
5 nothing can exist with out it being the Creators intention for it to exist.
Not even a thought.

very intriguing words CG never thought of religion as a patch or fix the broken minds/hearts of men.
I am gad you have seen it that way. That is the way I taught it. I wish more people could see it as you, and I, do.

And I very much agree that those affected by all the various religions tend to appear to be fixed after they practice.
I have seen this too, countless times. But it must be taught properly.

I know for a fact that a friend of mind as well as myself have learned to see the world from a relatively higher plane from reading non-religious motivational books and by working at developing our characters without using religion or church. And I find it much easier to bear the ways of the world now than I did before.
God, however you perceive him to be, is not restricted to religion. Many non-religions sources are used as his tools.

We are now both more patient, more understanding, etc - but we still have problems obeying the 10 commandments. Even being married does not curve our apetite to want more than one women in our lives. I think the 10 commandments are the hardest rules ever created.
"Commandments" and there are many, in many religions are not necessarily there to be followed. They are there as a mirror that we look into to see where we have fallen short. Once we see our error, and it is almost always a human ego problem, we can "fix" it - with the help of a good teacher.

The human being, or as Desmond Morrison called us, the Naked Ape, has in his nature a sexual appetite that is almost unquenchable. That is our nature as a primate. Yet our soul is not of the primate. It is something higher. Religion helps us to get to that higher place. It is not easy to do, but nothing worthwhile is easy to do!

But the upshot of it was the impression it left on my mind. I got the impression that just about anybody can commit murder if something very unfair happens to them and if they let anger get the better of their emotion. It has also caused me to become against capital punishment; if anyone can commit murder, then why put anyone to death for committing it!

But if I were a member of parliament I would not vote for capital punishment to be abolished unless some kind of other more lenient punishment be put in its place. Especially considering how blood thirsty Bahamians are now becoming. My heavens, there were 3 murders in just this week alone! People now seem to want to kill at the drop of a hat! And this is sad for our Bahamaland.

As the saying goes, wisdom comes with age. Hope that as the nation ages we would become wiser and exercise more self control.



Wisdom doesn't always come with age, sometimes age age comes alone. :D

I am only 26 but I can carry on conversations with some younger and elder persons that others could not even begin to undersatnd - without using big words.

I also can testify that the saying 'if you tell Johny he'll never be a anything' poor johny will never be anything unless he gets around more positive people.

I beleive the output(murder) in the bahamas results from the input(revenge mentality) that is drummed into the bahamian youth.

Poverty has a minimal effect, if the poor people, who are often the most devout christians would keep a positive mental attitude.

Sure I may be poor, but many people have it worse. Why keep saying what you would do to the other person 'if it was me'. My parents and most of my family that go to church more often than i do mind you, will still take the easy route and render evil for evil.

Anyone can pick up a weapon when they are angry and harm another person, it takes guts to actually have a fist fight though. Problem is most weapons have a high potential for causing death.

I am a trained martial artist and can kill someone if I had to with or without a weapon, but a part of martial arts training deals with not abusing your learned skills i.e. overkill. If you can stop an attacker with one punch or kick, and run away to safety, there is no need to hurt the attacker further, and you can even be locked up for doing so in some countries.

If we would teach or children and each other to love and forgive, instead of rendering evil for evil - indeed the whole world would be a much better place.

:cheers:

3 the Creator knows all past present and future. Thus the Creator knows knew every key I have touched to type this post before the earth came into existence. There for I can’t changes what the Creator already knows of me and what I will do the choices I make are already known to the Creator.


I do not quite beleive no. 3 above.

I do beleive that the creator knows the future but in the sense that he records what you do as you do it, not that he knows what you will do before you do it.

The creator has given us all free will, to accept or deny him, but I do not beleive that he knows we will fail until we choose to fail ... because then we would not have free will ... we would be following a script ... which means according to the KJV bible that we cannot just accept Jesus if we wish and be saved ... some are of us would be pre-destined to the bible 'hell' or the bible 'heaven' even before our parents are born.

I believe, and it seems only logical, that the future that the creator knows is what he will do in the future - sorta like how you plan own a house one day in the future - you know the future - but even though you are certain you want to eventually posses a house, the house you ultimately purchase often will not be the house that you planned to purchase.

why would God create robots following a script, and bless us with contradicting human only endowments - imagination, independent will, conscience and self awareness.

do you think we received the 4 human endowments when adam and eve ate
from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

:confused:

now what are the odds of me finding a site which expands on my beliefs of free will?

http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter3-19a.html

Wisdom doesn't always come with age, sometimes age age comes alone. :D

I am only 26 but I can carry on conversations with some younger and elder persons that others could not even begin to undersatnd - without using big words.

I also can testify that the saying 'if you tell Johny he'll never be a anything' poor johny will never be anything unless he gets around more positive people.

I beleive the output(murder) in the bahamas results from the input(revenge mentality) that is drummed into the bahamian youth.

Poverty has a minimal effect, if the poor people, who are often the most devout christians would keep a positive mental attitude.

Sure I may be poor, but many people have it worse. Why keep saying what you would do to the other person 'if it was me'. My parents and most of my family that go to church more often than i do mind you, will still take the easy route and render evil for evil.

Anyone can pick up a weapon when they are angry and harm another person, it takes guts to actually have a fist fight though. Problem is most weapons have a high potential for causing death.

I am a trained martial artist and can kill someone if I had to with or without a weapon, but a part of martial arts training deals with not abusing your learned skills i.e. overkill. If you can stop an attacker with one punch or kick, and run away to safety, there is no need to hurt the attacker further, and you can even be locked up for doing so in some countries.

If we would teach or children and each other to love and forgive, instead of rendering evil for evil - indeed the whole world would be a much better place.

:cheers:

I trained in martial artist for 7 years had 2 teachers. 1 was like Mr. Meagi on "Karate Kid"
Karate for defense only better to run than to burse your hands hitting hard heads. He only had us wear belts for tournaments that required it.
I was his only student to put him on the ground.
He was Buddhist (at least I think he was) and before he came to Canada from Korea to live he was a professional fighter.

now what are the odds of me finding a site which expands on my beliefs of free will?

http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter3-19a.html

It still leaves the question in the air. free will or desteny. Hhhhhmmmm
That is a very good topic.

The question has tobe asked is the Creator all pwoerful or not?

I do not quite beleive no. 3 above.

I do beleive that the creator knows the future but in the sense that he records what you do as you do it, not that he knows what you will do before you do it.

The creator has given us all free will, to accept or deny him, but I do not beleive that he knows we will fail until we choose to fail ... because then we would not have free will ... we would be following a script ... which means according to the KJV bible that we cannot just accept Jesus if we wish and be saved ... some are of us would be pre-destined to the bible 'hell' or the bible 'heaven' even before our parents are born.

I believe, and it seems only logical, that the future that the creator knows is what he will do in the future - sorta like how you plan own a house one day in the future - you know the future - but even though you are certain you want to eventually posses a house, the house you ultimately purchase often will not be the house that you planned to purchase.

why would God create robots following a script, and bless us with contradicting human only endowments - imagination, independent will, conscience and self awareness.

do you think we received the 4 human endowments when adam and eve ate
from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

:confused:



Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
You only think you have free will. All is as it is and as it should be to teach us.