Lets not have a misunderstanding again. Please tell me what you mean by Spirit.

Any spirit, whatever comes to your mind.

Any spirit, whatever comes to your mind.

OK. Lets keep it about the spiritual and talk about the Spirit World.

Generally speaking, most Buddhists don't believe the spirit world is there at all. But then again many only believe that there are bad spirits and no good ones. On the other hand there are those that believe there are good ones and bad ones.

However one feels, one "judges" the spirits by their actions - not their words as they can deceive. I think the Bible shows that: Gen 3.4 "'You will not surely die,' the serpent said to the woman."

However one feels, one judges the spirits by their actions - not their words as they can deceive. I think the Bible shows that: Gen 3.4 "'You will not surely die,' the serpent said to the woman."

Actions can be misinterpreted also CG; like discipline.

Actions can be misinterpreted also CG; like discipline.

Yes they can. But "like discipline." Don't take your meaning there.

Yes they can. But "like discipline." Don't take your meaning there.

Discipline is an action of love but is sometimes misinterpreted as abuse.
What I am saying is that you choose actions as the why of knowing a good or bad spirit. How is this any different from words? This is way someone can get arrested for making threats.

Discipline is an action of love but is sometimes misinterpreted as abuse.
What I am saying is that you choose actions as the why of knowing a good or bad spirit. How is this any different from words? This is way someone can get arrested for making threats.

Sorry I had to leave the site last night but it was getting late.

It seems we are coming from different perspectives. It appears you want to judge. It appears you need to judge, if not by words then by actions.

Why is it that Christians have to size up everything, and everybody to see if they are candidates for heaven or hell? It is so ingrained in the Christian psyche that they can't conceive of not judging. Buddhist come from a non-judging point of view. Christians from a judging point of view. I hope the gulf is not to wide, after all the Christ that you follow was not a "judge."

Judge if you must, but do no harm by that judging.

Sorry I had to leave the site last night but it was getting late.

It seems we are coming from different perspectives. It appears you want to judge. It appears you need to judge, if not by words then by actions.

Why is it that Christians have to size up everything, and everybody to see if they are candidates for heaven or hell? It is so ingrained in the Christian psyche that they can't conceive of not judging. Buddhist come from a non-judging point of view. Christians from a judging point of view. I hope the gulf is not to wide, after all the Christ that you follow was not a "judge."

Judge if you must, but do no harm by that judging.

It's not a want CG but someone has to, that's why we have courts.
You are right we do have different perspectives on this issue.

It's not a want CG but someone has to, that's why we have courts.
You are right we do have different perspectives on this issue.


Judging on a secular level, yes, we do it all the time. We judge what foods we like, what TV programs etc. We even appoint people to judge, for civil order, on the guilt or innocence of a person. (Which most civilized nations have removed from religious hands. As it is done so badly, and with immense cruelty, when religions do it.)

The judging I was talking about is Spiritual judging. Where, using our scriptures, we brand whole sections of people as outcasts and sinners. Christians need to do this, Buddhist do not.

But I do know you Vicky from the replies that you post here most everyday and also the reply you made to my post. Anyway I just have one more thing to say to you. The same way you feel abut me making wrong accusations about you giving to the poor don't you think you may be wrong about other people? Or are you so far ahead of everyone that you dont make mistakes and whatever you think has to be fact?

I am so far at the bottom of the barrel and am just beginning to learn I will be learning until the day I die (understanding death to be the end of this awareness.) I deal with the facts as I learn them. I deal with faith, as I understand it to be.

Listen just how its is wrong for people to be making assertions about you then you should not make against other people, for if you do you are just as bad as them. How would I have known what you had done if you did not tell me?
It’s not something I talk about so you could not know. I don't go and look for people to help I just do what needs to be done as it cross's the path of my life. My wife checks with me all the time to see if I have money on me. Its not that she controls it I just don't think about money as others do. I know I need it I know I have to earn it I want to have lots of it but if some one needs it more than I do what’s the point of holding on to it. I have 1 guaranty in life and that is I am going to die. No amount of money can make me live forever.

Even though I have not personally seen what you have done I have to take your word for it. Which
You can believe what you want it will not change anything.
I will. I may be wrong, but I do not think you would ever be that forgiving.

I feel that I am very forgiving but maybe there is something else I need to learn. As much as I type here I hold no grudge against anyone. I only want people to know you can't treat a type of person differently because they are different.



For ulitmately its all about what you believe is the truth and not truth itself.
The question here is, truth about what?? Turth as in fact or faith.

Anthony

The best way for me to describe whether a gift is bad or good is this:

We were born of innocence and as our own minds and personality blossomed so did our conscience.
We grew to know that if we gave something nice to someone that it pleased them and when we did something bad that it was the opposite affect.
Some people may have never stepped foot or heard of any one religion but since each of us have a soul/spirit within us we do know our own minds as we give to one another.
Giving a gift can be good to the reciever because of its materialistic affects which might overcast the real reason the giver gave. Was it from his heart or was it because he was looking for something in return??
The best gift that any of us can give is through the heart. One that is given not for acknowledgement or gain. Yes, there are rewards by doing this and the greatest one is feeling good within ourselves knowing that we gave from the heart without expectations and out of pure respect and love.
Giving a gift with the thought of how it will help the other person and not ourselves we will be rewarded.
A gift that is given with expectations of gaining for ourselves the person's love, or recognition, or some other form of materialistic gain is one that is not a good gift. And, whether we realize it immediately, when we don't get what we expected back we don't eventually feel good about giving that gift and we have helped no one. For the gift we gave in that moment will eventually be fruitless to the giver and reciever. So, be of a giving spirit starting from the heart and not from worldly desires.

Sorry I had to leave the site last night but it was getting late.

It seems we are coming from different perspectives. It appears you want to judge. It appears you need to judge, if not by words then by actions.

Why is it that Christians have to size up everything, and everybody to see if they are candidates for heaven or hell? It is so ingrained in the Christian psyche that they can't conceive of not judging. Buddhist come from a non-judging point of view. Christians from a judging point of view. I hope the gulf is not to wide, after all the Christ that you follow was not a "judge."

Judge if you must, but do no harm by that judging.


Hi CG, with all due respect, I believe you are a bit off here.
First off the word "Judge" is the wrong word to use, as many persons equate this word with condemnation, which only God can do.

I am not going to quote chapter and verse at this point, but the Bible tells us to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. The times we are living in, there are so many deceitful presons and things confronting us all the time, it behooves everyone to question everything!

Christians don't have to size up everything, and when they do, its not to determine whether someone will go to heaven or hell! Christians are obligated to question and check teachings, etc, to ensure that they line up with the Bible, the word of the living God!

I don't understand what kind of teaching or Bible the Buddhists use, but somehow, it seems something of an anything-goes affair. [NOT judging, mind you!]. Is it not a wise thing to at least try to make sure the brothers and sisters of your faith get the proper understanding Buddhist teachings?

If you and I are discussing religious matters, as a Christian I would be obligated to check your statement or views with the Bible. and it would be quite OK and proper if you check my statement or views with your teachings. If there is a disagreement, so be it. If your statements don't line up with the Word, the worst I can conclude is that yours is a false religion -- and likewise, I guess you can think the same of my faith! Only God can Judge in the sense of condemnation, so we should not use that word in this type of discussion unless we are sure of the sense we are using it in. Otherwise, it will lead to much misunderstanding.

The Bible also tells us that Christ is our advocate (Lawyer), as well as our Judge. And I am persuaded that on that Great Day He will judge Christians justly and correctly --- we are His people!!!!!!!

Hope this helps,

Great Demos

Hi CG, with all due respect, I believe you are a bit off here.
First off the word "Judge" is the wrong word to use, as many persons equate this word with condemnation, which only God can do.

So it should be - but you and I know condemnation is alive and well in the Christian world.


Christians don't have to size up everything, and when they do, its not to determine whether someone will go to heaven or hell! Christians are obligated to question and check teachings, etc, to ensure that they line up with the Bible, the word of the living God!.

And that must be a hard job as there are so many "right" teachings, depending on whom you talk to. But that is a common feature in most religions. But tell me, how can you be sure your teachings lines up with the Bible when next the guy next-door, who uses the same Bible, comes to a different conclusion.

I don't understand what kind of teaching or Bible the Buddhists use, but somehow, it seems something of an anything-goes affair. [NOT judging, mind you!]. Is it not a wise thing to at least try to make sure the brothers and sisters of your faith get the proper understanding Buddhist teachings?.

Well, we don't have "sin" as the Christian would understand it. We have advantageous things and non-advantageous things so, not anything goes. In fact Buddhist live by very strict codes, they just don't impose them on others. New Buddhist are given a proper understanding of the faith (which can be very confusing to the Western mind.) There are the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path - just to name two.

If you and I are discussing religious matters, as a Christian I would be obligated to check your statement or views with the Bible. and it would be quite OK and proper if you check my statement or views with your teachings. If there is a disagreement, so be it. If your statements don't line up with the Word, the worst I can conclude is that yours is a false religion -- and likewise, I guess you can think the same of my faith! Only God can Judge in the sense of condemnation, so we should not use that word in this type of discussion unless we are sure of the sense we are using it in. Otherwise, it will lead to much misunderstanding.

Here is where we differ greatly. I would not have to check your Bible against my "Bible" even if some of it is the same, and far older. However, if I was to find something different (and there is a lot) I would not call your religion a false one! I would call it your religion, no more, no less. I think you prove my point. Your religion must conclude that my religion is false, mine does not, would not, say that about yours. Who is really judgmental? :cheers:

CG, I shall try to answer the points you brought up in your post.

1. You say that condemnation is alive and well in the Christian world but this is not so unless you are talking about imposters of which there are many. In the book of Revelation, out of the 7 churches there were only 2 with which Christ Himself was pleased. That works out to less than a third of the churches/persons. So today of the persons claiming to be Christians, less than a third of them are! Many passages of the Bible speak of false teachers and prophets, so when you encounter these persons it is NOT fair to categorise the whole Christian faith according to their standards. To me, this seems to be a basic error that is made on this site! These false Christians are everywhere and most likely in ALL Christian churches!

2. How can I be sure my teaching lines up with the Bible, when there are different interpretations? There is no hard and fast rule. When you get deep into the Word, the Holy Spirit will reveal many true meanings to you. But Most likely no one knows all the correct interpretations of the whole Bible. I have heard great pastors and Bible students and teachers talked about this. Some believe that we would not know all these things until we get to Heaven! These are persons who have been serious Bible students for over 30 years! But there are many Bible passages that we DO understand and most likely these will be suffiecient for our earthly sojourn.

3. "Buddhists don't impose their 'strict codes' on others", you say. And neither should Christians. Christ Himself said as much when He instructed his disciples that if anyone wilfully refuse the teachings, turn away from them and "Shake off the dust off your feet before leaving their city"

You say new Buddhists are given proper understanding of the faith. Are these teachings regarded as the inspired word of God or of Men? This could be anohter difference of our faiths. The Bible tells us "we should obey God rather than men", and the only time it is regarded as right in God's sight to disobey man's laws is when they go against God's laws!

Another thing, the Bible is full of prophecy. Prophecy is like an underpinning to affirm ther truth of the word, as these prophecies are being fulfilled all the time. I heard a number of pastors say that NO other religion has any prophecy -- Does Buddhism has prophecy? If not, what kind of foundation or underpinnings they have to affirm their word, their teachings? [I guess they have something, probably too deep for the uninitiated like me to grasp?]

4. CG. you just seem to love the word "Judgmental", a word I thoroughly dislike. Personally, I just don't see the wisdom in swallowing down ANY information without first checking it against what I know or have experienced. Guess my level of enlightenment is not yet that advanced(?). There are passages in the Bible (Hebrews, I believe) which warn Christians to witness to unbelievers, because if they should die in their unrepentent state, God will hold us responsible (Their blood will be on our hands, it says). This is probably why many Christians get a bit over aggressive in trying to "Save" souls, especially considering that there are so many false ones! Personally, I don't do much of this as I find it one of the hardest jobs in Christianity. Some people find it easy, but I just try to set example by the way I live.

As you hinted/stated one who is stepped in Christianity ( or the Western way of life), will find it hard to grasp the Buddhist doctrine.

It is NOT that my religion MUST conclude yours is false; it is using the principles we learn or understand from the Bible which would cause us to come to that conclusion.

Sometimes we can just don't say anything regardless of whether we feel it is false or real. But I just believe it would please our Maker to give a frank and truthful statement.

Great Demos

Wow! You gave me a lot to answer! But I am OK with that as I always enjoy your postings and questions.

1. You say that condemnation is alive and well in the Christian world but this is not so unless you are talking about imposters of which there are many....

As a Christian Pastor told me, "It is very hard to tell the false from the real, they look and act so much alike."

There are many such, in your faith and in mine. But the Christian faith has a long history of bringing the world to its knees in tears - officially. Read the Bible, it is full of condemnations for those who are not of the faith. (The Old Testament is really full!)

2. How can I be sure my teaching lines up with the Bible, when there are different interpretations? There is no hard and fast rule....

Yet, when you speak to any denomination they will tell you that there are hard and fast rules - theirs!

3. "Buddhists don't impose their 'strict codes' on others", you say. And neither should Christians. Christ Himself said as much when He instructed his disciples that if anyone wilfully refuse the teachings, turn away from them and "Shake off the dust off your feet before leaving their city"

You are right when you say, "neither should Christians." ('Should' being the operative word) but they all to often do.

You say new Buddhists are given proper understanding of the faith. Are these teachings regarded as the inspired word of God or of Men? This could be anohter difference of our faiths. The Bible tells us "we should obey God rather than men", and the only time it is regarded as right in God's sight to disobey man's laws is when they go against God's laws!

The Buddha, like Jesus never wrote anything. We believe his words, as transcribed by his followers are correct because we are told to put them to the test, which we do. If they work, they are true. They work for me as Jesus' words work for you. The writers of Jesus' words are said to be inspired, after the fact. This is a belief, an unprovable belief. Buddha's words were transcribed, often as he spoke them.

We believe them to be as accurate as possible, but not inspired by God, or Gods. In fact there is a passage in the Buddhist writings that says that Brahma (The Hindu God, who is also a Trinity) was so impressed by the Buddha's teachings that he asked him to share them with the world. So I guess you can say Buddha inspired Brahma!

As for inspiration. The trouble with inspiration is.
"My words are inspired!"
"How do we know that?"
"Because I said so."
"Why should we believe that?"
"Because my words are inspired!"
Its Catch 22.

Another thing, the Bible is full of prophecy. Prophecy is like an underpinning to affirm ther truth of the word, as these prophecies are being fulfilled all the time. I heard a number of pastors say that NO other religion has any prophecy -- Does Buddhism has prophecy? If not, what kind of foundation or underpinnings they have to affirm their word, their teachings?

I fear the number of Pastor you speak of are incorrect. (Another example of Christians thinking that they are unique. :o ) Every religion in the world has Prophecy, it is part-and-parcel of any religion - always has been, always will be. Some put great store by them, others not, but they all have them, many have come to pass as well. Buddhist do not put too much stock in them. Prophecy deals with the future, Buddhist live in the now.

4. CG. you just seem to love the word "Judgmental", a word I thoroughly dislike.

As I do! It is a Christian concept, not a Buddhist one. :D

Personally, I just don't see the wisdom in swallowing down ANY information without first checking it against what I know or have experienced.

I agree, but first put aside what you know and look at the information in an unbiased light. It maybe possible that what you know or have experienced might be faulty, or incomplete. Buddhist are told to do this, and they do it. Most Christians find this hard to do as they live in fear of offending God. (or so they tell me.) Buddhist have no such fear. We seek wisdom wherever it maybe found. The Christian is only allow the Bible, officially! Happily, I know of a number of Christians who study Buddhist philosophy. :)

There are passages in the Bible (Hebrews, I believe) which warn Christians to witness to unbelievers, because if they should die in their unrepentent state, God will hold us responsible (Their blood will be on our hands, it says).

What a burden your faith places on you. :eek:

This is probably why many Christians get a bit over aggressive in trying to "Save" souls, especially considering that there are so many false ones! Personally, I don't do much of this as I find it one of the hardest jobs in Christianity. Some people find it easy, but I just try to set example by the way I live.

They say that the best sermons are lived, not spoken. So, you are right in doing what you do!

As you hinted/stated one who is stepped in Christianity ( or the Western way of life), will find it hard to grasp the Buddhist doctrine.

That is so true. It should not be as the Christ taught what the Buddha taught, (love, compassion, brotherhood, love of those who hate you, etc. all those things Christian are told Jesus "started.")

There are those who say that the "lost years" of Jesus were spent in India studying the teaching of the Buddha. I believe that to be the case. It can never be proved but as I read Jesus' words I hear the voice of the Buddha (or at least his teachings as he died 400+ years before Jesus was born.)

It is NOT that my religion MUST conclude yours is false; it is using the principles we learn or understand from the Bible which would cause us to come to that conclusion.

Therefore, it must! One of your commandments says, "I am the Lord thy God, you shall have no other God before me." That effectively cuts off all other religions. (in the Christian understanding!)

Sometimes we can just don't say anything regardless of whether we feel it is false or real.

That happens.

But I just believe it would please our Maker to give a frank and truthful statement.

No one can argue with that.

Originally Posted by Great Demos
Another thing, the Bible is full of prophecy. Prophecy is like an underpinning to affirm ther truth of the word, as these prophecies are being fulfilled all the time. I heard a number of pastors say that NO other religion has any prophecy -- Does Buddhism has prophecy? If not, what kind of foundation or underpinnings they have to affirm their word, their teachings?


Hi Great Demos please point out in the Bible a prophecy. Not something vague. Like there will be war. There is always war somewhere in the world. Give pinpoint time and place of something in the Bible.